Rao said:
This is not going to be easy. There is a lot of difficult terrain ahead. We recognise that. We are realist about it.
She said that trade and business between the two countries need to be augmented. She added that travel between India and Pakistan needed to be made easier.
In the region of Jammu and Kashmir we have consciously worked on putting in place confidence building measures that enable trade across the line of control, better transportation facilities so that people can connect more easily.
The ambassador said that India needs to urge its neighbour to realise the need of acting on terrorism on a mutual basis. Rao added that terrorism could trigger proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
We have been affected by clandestine nuclear proliferation in our neighborhood.
Relations between India and Pakistan have been plagued by border and resource disputes, and accusations of Pakistani militant activity against India.
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@Indian: IndianJi, Salutations. . In Islamic prophetic tradition, it is recommended that one of the greatest virtues is acquisition of knowledge. So, your suggestion aroused a quest and a curiosity in me. Contacts with my friend Savitri, an expert in Sanskrit and Hindi, revealed aspects of a peculiar philosophy unknown to me till now. Also, on account of my innate politeness I am hesitant to discuss the revelations too openly. But still, allow me a short comment …. . IndianJi, Savitri told me that Classical Indian philosophy deemed that TRUTH had to be UNVARNISHED. This noble assertion when pushed to its logical conclusion, in certain Indian philosophical traditions lead to the ignoble idea that POLITENESS IS BAD, for politeness would, eventually, varnish the truth (cover it with untruth). And, of course, the more the politeness, the more the truth got covered under layers of varnish. Thus Classical Indian Society (Sanskrit based) abjured politeness. . I walked back to my chambers, deep in thought, mulling over my new learning. . Ah, now I understand why a lot of Indians I know normally operate at exuberant (often even subliminal) levels of politeness: they are hiding the truth. . Namaste, IndianJi
@Dr Jamil Chaudri: There is a saying in Sanskrit - "Athivinayam dhurtha lakshanam". Please read about it..
@A reader: Although I think your remark was intended to be an invective-epithet, you cannot even imagine the sheer-delight, even a sense of fulfillment, your comment gave me. I thank you, I thank you very much. . You wrote the sentence with my name juxtaposed with those of the revered memory Sir Mohammad Iqbal, and Chaudhry Rehmat Ali (contributors to Muslim renaissance in South Asia) . I now have the heavy burden to try and live up to the performance expected from people in that elevated category . I am ready to forgive you for the epithet, for the wrong spelling of my name and for trying to intimidate me by putting quotes around the title “Dr”. I will use Iqbal’s verse in my prayer: “Ya Rub, dil-e-Muslum ko wo Zindah tamana dhe, jo Qalab ko garama-dhe, jo Rhoo ko thar’pa dhe.”
@Vicram Singh: Salutations, Vicram Singh. You are not precise in identifying me as a “Pakistani” Muslim. However, let us not focus on that, for we all often fall for the immediate-apparent rather than wait for real to manifest itself! . It is not only for the Sikhs that I SHOW love, my real love is for the utterance of TRUTH, even when it leads to others hurting me. And believe me, my truth telling has lately placed me in a position where others are presently hurting me without cause. . A matter of greater import is one’s relationship with Kin, Kith, Neighbour (in the wider sense). I believe that one should UNDERSTAND the neighbour, one should RESPECT the neighbour, and LOVE the neighbour. As India is the eastern neighbour to Pakia, Pakis and Indians should aim for that type of relationship. There is a Christian canonical commandment: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife. This could be paraphrased to imply: respect the neighbour’s possessions and sense of integrity (spiritual and material). . My good friend in Switzerland was Yogesh Singh. He is not a Sikh. And you Mr Vicram Singh, may not be a Sikh either. But I am still trying to understand you and I assure you I respect you; if and when circumstances bring us together, we may develop a friendship which may progress to love. . You should also visit the Islamic Republics (Pakia and Afghania). You will find a pulsating society. You might find a few things not to your liking but by and large it will be an energizing and exhilarating sojourn for you. . Good luck on you trip.
@G.Din, Muslims are not in a majority in Britain though. Like I said you need to try harder.
@Dr Jamil Chaudri: " ... After the Sikh community (Tara Singh and Co) were deluded into joining India, rather than remaining in the Lands of the White Huns (Afghania-Pakia), the people who suffered the most were Punjabi Muslims and Sikhs. .... "
What really cracks me up is a Pakistani Muslim showing concern for a Sikh.
I think the current relationship of India and Pak as neighbors is good enough. There is no need what so ever to improve these relationships. Pakistani's ( Not necessarily Muslims) are a different culture, neither a democracy nor a military dictatorship. I think India is happy as is. One can be friends or try to be friends with like minded people India and Pakistan are not like minded at all. So please the officials of India , let Pak be what ever it wants to be
@Dr Jamil Chaudri: "By the way, Pakistan is not WANTING Kashmir. It wants to uphold the right of the Kashmiri People to self-determination, just like the self-determination exercised by Sikhs, in 1947. " Pakistan is being wise in not wanting Kashmir. It is like not wanting the moon. Pointless, when it is impossible to get it anyway With regards to "upholding" the right to self-determination of Kashmiris, why such sudden love for them when you did not show it for your Bengalis until they kicked you out, or are now denying the same right to Bulochis or have no such love for Uighurs? If you are a medical doctor you should know it is smart to promise to lift only as much as you have a capacity for. Lifting more than that could break your back especially when you are almost flat on your stomach already. Then what use shall Kashmiris have for you? Incidentally, Kashmiris also exercised self-determination in 1947 and kept you at bay for 42 years until you dumped your garbage on them.
@Roflcopter: "@G.Din, not sure what that has to do with kashmir. you need to try harder." You said to KPS:"Everyone migrated at some point in time, " What you implied was that those who migrated to Kashmir at one time can now claim it because they are in the majority. Now, do you get the connection between what you said and my response? It is true some duffer imam did tell Queen Elizabeth to vacate her palace as Britain was going to be an Islamic Emirate!
@Anonymous: America has pulled out ALL troops from Iraq. The American Embassy in Iraq has a staff of 20’000 CONTRACTORS. Pakistan has no troops in Kashmir. The only troops there are Kashmiri; there are also an undisclosed number of Paki Contractors. . Two important terms in law are “de facto” and “de jure”. The state of Kashmir is different today compared to the British Occupation times; it now has THREE de-facto jurisdictions: Free Kashmir, Indian Occupied Kashmir and lands under Chinese jurisdiction. Chinese jurisdiction spans two area: The Aksai Chin and the Shaksgam Valley. India was UNABLE TO DEFEND Chinese encroachment on Aksai Chin; Also, Pakistan was compelled to accept Chinese line of control in Shaksgam Valley. China has built a main military road through Aksai Chin joining Tibet with Xinjiang. By signing the peace treaty with China, Paki was able to demilitarize that border. . China first occupied Aksai Chin, and the negotiated with Pakistan over Shaksgam Valley. If you statement makes any sense, the first move to get the OLD BOUNDARY of Kashmir restored, should be by India tp get China to vacate Aksai Chin.
@Tony Singh: Tony Singh, Sat Sri Akaal. Mistakes of youth are paid for in old age; mistakes of preceding generations are suffered by succeeding generations. The border of Pubjab is on the plains of Panipat. By citizenship you are Indian, but by spirit you remain a White Hun. . After the Sikh community (Tara Singh and Co) were deluded into joining India, rather than remaining in the Lands of the White Huns (Afghania-Pakia), the people who suffered the most were Punjabi Muslims and Sikhs. An old saying is: “you make your bed you sleep in it”. But note, the Sikhs made a mistake BUT the Muslims suffered too. Also, look at what the Indians subsequently did to the Sikhs: the British gave the Sikhs 40% of Punjab; India reduced the Punjab to 33% of what the British gave them! . Tony, I visited Ludihana in 2009. I also visited Sirhand (I visited the Mosque and not the grave); you should visit Nankana Sahib. You should visit Peshawar and Muree, and see the NEW REALITY, the NEW VITALITY of the people who against the odds maintain a sense of self. . By the way, Pakistan is not WANTING Kashmir. It wants to uphold the right of the Kashmiri People to self-determination, just like the self-determination exercised by Sikhs, in 1947.
@Syed Farrukh Hussain Shah: Lets see some facts - Lahore - The name of the city Lahore derives from "Loh" or "Lava", the son of Rama in the Ramayana. Rawalpindi - Rawalpindi, named after Raja Pindi. The material remains found at the site prove the existence of a Buddhist establishment contemporary to Taxila and of a Vedic civilisation. Taxila - The city dates back to the Gandhara period and contains the ruins of the Gandhāran city of Takṣaśilā which was an important Hindu and Buddhist centre. Takṣaśilā is reputed to derive its name from Takṣa, who was the great grandson of Bharata, the brother of Rama. Karachi - Had 51% hindus and 42% muslims in 1947. Now, it is less that 1% of Hindus.. Multan - According to Hindu legends, it was the capital of the Trigarta Kingdom at the time of the Mahabharata war, ruled by the Katoch Dynasty. Multan has had various names over the years. According to Hindu mythology, it was originally called Kashtpur (Kashyapapura) after a Hindu sage named Kashyapa. I dont even need to say about the Indus valley civilization..
Mr Indian, Salutations. To paraphrase Santayana: “Those who do not learn from history, live to see it repeat itself”. I take it from your evidence that these Lohara were a nasty bunch. Poor Kashmir! But the affairs in the Indian occupied Kashmir TODAY are pretty bad too. Do you think Shah Mir the Second, is lurking in the shadows to cleanse the land of its present day oppression? Just a thought! Now let us concentrate on your quote about the origins of the name KASHMIR. You are quoting from Wikipedia and the starting words are : “according to folk etymology ….”. While SOME FOLK may believe in that fairytale, OTHER FOLK have an equally compelling narrative and belief. Please look up my earlier posting.
@gujjar: "more terrorist groups in India than Pakisan" "In Pakistan there is not minority specific targets"
One question - Is your reality testing intact??
@Dr Jamil Chaudri: "The misrule, corruption and internecine fighting of the Lohara dynasty provided an opening for Shams-ud-Din Shah Mir, who was the first Muslim (Pashtun) ruler of Kashmir and the founder of the Shah Miri dynasty".(1346-1586) - Wikipedia.. "According to folk etymology, the name "Kashmir" means "desiccated land" (from the Sanskrit: Ka = water and shimeera = desiccate)". - Again wikipedia...
@ullo: Oh!! I always thought Pakistanis are from Arab descent!!! Since when did Muslims have their civilization from the Indus valley???
@G.Din, not sure what that has to do with kashmir. you need to try harder.
@Roflcopter: "@KPS, Everyone migrated at some point in time, " So, the modus operandi is first, beg to come in. Then, claim the land as your own. Is that why, British Queen has been given an ultimatum to vacate her Buckingham Palace? Good going!
@Cosmo, ok?
@Aarvey, Really? is this your argument now? look at the law and order situation in Azad Kashmir too. Much better then the mess that is J&K.
@Roflcopter: Beacuse like the rest of the world we are having a though time to comprehend the thought process of terrorists and u think no different.
@ullo: Well correct but in our minds pakistan is still a part of lager india.
@Syed Farrukh Hussain Shah: You can cry hoarse and develop all your "non state actor" assets. Kashmir will remain in India. Period. If anybody in Kashmir wants to be a pakistani citizen, he is always welcome to take a one way ticket to Islamabad.
@Dr Jamil Chaudri:Sir, What shall I conclude from your assertion? My Parents and their peers are from Peshawar and Muree. We are the first generation Indians (.And likewise muslims who mjgrated to Pakistan) Now do we have the claim to our ansestral land since (like you say) had been living there since antiquity? If not, then why only Muslims of Kashmir? If you expect us to accept this as the consequence of Partition, then its time people of Kashmir too accept it.
@Dr Jamil Chaudri: Its time the, as a first step, Pakistan removes its troops from POK, reaquire land gifted away to China, bring back the same demographic ratio as it existed in 1947 and then hold plebicite. This is in line with the first step of UN resolutions.
@Roflcopter: just take one look at the law and order situation ( or lack of it) in any of your cities be it Karachi, Lahore Peshawar or Quetta. Compare it with the law and order situation in Kashmir. If you cannot spot the difference then I am afraid you deliberately do not want to see it. The army presence is there to deter thugs being pushed across the border into India by you know who. And what do you expect - boy scouts to police the Loc?
@Aarvey,india: J&K Internal part of India? UN and whole world is crazy? typical indian behavior....once pakistan was also internal part of india???
@Singh Chauhan: My sources narate that the etymology of the name Kashmir is: KUSH MAR, a name given to the region by White Huns, who settled in the valley in antiquity. It has the same root as the mountains to the West: the Hindukush range . The name Srinagar is derived from “Sar” and Nagar, beaning Head Town, or Chief Town.
The key to normalization is the liberation of Indian occupied Paki land: Kashmir. If India really thinks the people of Kashmir would opt to join India in a free plebiscite, then India should have no objection. Elections under occupation control do not signify FREE WILL.
I guess pakistan has to stand its ground and take an all round defence against US from the west and India from east, Pakistanis are brave people, they have and will protect kashmir no matter what, nobody can advise us how to solve our issues with out considering our national interests, indians can yell and cry as much as they want but we all know just like afghanistan kashmir wont be solved till the time pakistan doesnt like the solution.
India is doing just well with the present relationship with PAK.
@KPS, Everyone migrated at some point in time, your argument is so flawed it's not even worth arguing. You can give them any other name if it helps you sleep at night but it doesn't change the fact that they are in majority and they want independence. @Quick, religion matters to us as much as it did in 1947, whether it matters to you makes no difference. Kashmiris, or should I say "migrants" want independence. I'm baffled why indians are having such a hard time understanding something so simple.
@Roflcopter: This is 2012 and not 1947. Religion may matter to converts like you because it is your only semblance of identity. But in the real, rational and political world, where decisions of territory are made, it does not mean anything.
@Ashvinn, Not sure how it was a religious sermon but religion matters just like it did in 1947 partition ;)
@Roflcopter: Thank you for the religious sermon, but how does religion matter to the affairs of a state.
@ullo Official name is Bharat. Just like Egypt being a western name for Misr. May be Pakistan should rename itself NotIndia.
@ullo
"India" a western appellation means, "the land on the east of Indus."
@KPS and @ Singh Indian then should try to change their name to something else as "india" is derived from the word "indus" which really means people of the land of indus (which fortunately flows in Pakistan) so ideally Pakistan has more claim to the name "india" then india itself.......
@KPS: Adding further to your comment, let me tell the ignorant & ill-informed Pakistani about the roots of the word "Kashmir" which they keep harping about. How many pakistanis know the etymology of word 'Kashmir' ? how did this word come into existence? DO YOU KNOW? It is an Ap-bhransh of KASHyap + MERu. Kashyap is the name of a hindu Puranic Rishi who used to inhabit & meditate on the Meru (i.e. hills). So, the hills where Kashyap lived were called Kashmeru which with time, changed to Kashmir. Interestingly, even the Shrimad-Bhagwad Geeta has a mention of Kashmir. For the capital of J&K, it is a child's guess about the roots of Shree-Nagar i.e. Srinagar.
@Waqas Butt: @Muhammad Arshad: @Phajja: @Roflcopter: Kashmir is and has been Indian land for 6,000 years. So where is the question of India giving up its own land. Muslim separatist in Kashmir are NOT KASHMIRI as they claim to be. They are migrants from Iran and Uzbekistan. So there is no question of them ever having any claim over Kashmir. Only Pandits are the real, native and only KASHMIRI. They are Indian and so is Kashmir.
India has been extremely generous by co-opting these "muslim" migrants and allowing them to stay in Kashmir while subsidizing their entire existence. However, they have repaid our kindness and generosity by trying to take our land. So, it is no surprise that they will have to face the consequence. Time for them to pack up and leave or else.......
Until the issue of Kashmir is not resolved according to the resolutions of united nations and according to the wishes of kashmiri people, normalization of ties would never be successfull.
It's very easy.... The ball in Indian court.... India pull out force from Jammu & Kashmir.... All people of bnth side Kashmir move freely without VISA requirement.... And then lastly give them choice to go with India or Pakistan or make a seperate homeland...! Thus both countries will move forward in all fields without any fear....! Otherwise every act of any country will create a lot of question marks...!
@Roflcopter: Jammu and Kashmir is an integral part of the Indian union. There is an elected government there and elections in J&K are far more freer than in POK. Roflcopter can make all the noise he wants but Kashmiris are very much happier to be part of a progressive India.
Key to normalization is destruction of Hindu State Terrorist Infrastructure in Kashmir. As long as Hindu State keep promoting State Terrorism in the reguion, relationship with pakistan or any other neighbor will not improve.
The key to normalising relations is the distruction of the infrastructure of terror in Pakistan.
Kashmiri freedom is key to normalising ties with Pakistan but India is not willing to work on that.