PML-N warns army, ISI to stop supporting PTI

Published: November 13, 2011
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Analysts and observers concluded that the rise of Imran Khan’s PTI would hurt the PML-N the most. PHOTO: INP/ FILE

Analysts and observers concluded that the rise of Imran Khan’s PTI would hurt the PML-N the most. PHOTO: INP/ FILE

LAHORE: 

The frantic political stir created by the up-and-coming Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) has provoked opposing reactions on Saturday from the two heavyweight parties of the country, the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) and the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N).

While Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani calmly shrugged off talk of there being any threat to his party from the PTI’s monumental rise, Opposition Leader in the National Assembly Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan was more frantic – alleging that there was a concerted effort to undermine the PML-N, using parties such as the PTI, and saying he had evidence to support this claim.

Though it had been fluid for a while, the political landscape was shaken by the PTI’s mammoth October 30 rally at Minar-e-Pakistan in Lahore, the seat of power in Punjab, long considered the bastion of the PML-N’s power. Even before the Lahore rally, with PTI’s major political activity taking place in urban Punjab constituencies, analysts and observers concluded that the rise of Imran Khan’s PTI would hurt the PML-N the most.

The Lahore rally seemed to drive this point home emphatically for the PML-N, which has, since then, been in a huddle, planning what to do.

PML-N offensive against ISI, establishment

PML-N’s President Nawaz Sharif on Saturday held a meeting of the party’s senior leaders in Model Town Lahore where he also presided over a meeting of party workers from Faisalabad division.

According to senior party member privy to the discussions at the meeting, Sharif has given a go-ahead to party leaders to ‘expose the games of military establishment’ and particularly to criticise the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). The PML-N’s think tank last month had decided that this offensive would be launched if the establishment did not cease and desist from interfering in the country’s political dynamics – and that those ISI officials allegedly involved in this practice would be ‘exposed’.

And so it began on Saturday.

Chaudhry Nisar in a typically fiery press conference said he would present evidence of the military establishment’s sponsoring and promotion of PTI’s Lahore rally. He warned that if the ISI did not mend its ways the PML-N would take ‘direct action’ either on the floor of the house, in the courts or through the media.

“I have detailed documents of funding and ample evidence of the management the ISI extended in making the PTI’s rally successful,” Nisar said.

He vowed that he would present this evidence in the coming session of the National Assembly, which is slated to start from Monday. He said that he would force the government to review what he termed a policy of promoting the role of intelligence agencies just to damage PML-N.

Nisar calls out Kayani

Asked why he did not approach Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani with the allegations, Nisar replied that he had approached the general a number of times to control the role of ISI in politics. Kayani, he said, never responded to the pleas. He did add that he told the army chief that the ISI’s role under Kayani had remained ‘excellent’ for the first two years – but that this role had become dubious once again.

To a query, Nisar said that since Kayani would not listen to him, he would demand that the prime minister call the army chief to the floor of the National Assembly to clarify the establishment’s position in the making and breaking of political parties.

He said that the ISI was being used for petty politics despite the Pakistan military being under immense foreign pressure.

Some evidence

He said that Imran Khan had been in politics for 15 years, yet those that have joined him in recent days have strong linkages with the establishment. He added that 90% of those joining the PTI are from a party created by former president Gen. Pervez Musharraf, that is, the PML-Q.

While the PML-Q was created under a military dictatorship, the PTI was being created during civilian rule, asserted Nisar.

Asked whether President Asif Ali Zardari is on board in this ‘game’, Nisar replied in the affirmative – saying that the PPP co-chairman had been on board the establishment’s plan for the last three months. Nisar did hasten to add that the president might change his plans given that PPP workers, too, have begun to join PTI now.

Nothing to hide

He said that Imran’s demand that politicians reveal their assets was baseless propaganda and that if he has any documentary evidence in this regard he should move the court.

He also questioned PTI’s funding and its ideology – saying both were murky. Chaudhry Nisar said that the PML-N is going to bring a bill in the forthcoming session of the National Assembly regarding an effective system to declare assets. He said that bill would encompass the details of not only personal assets but also of details of party expenditures and sponsored trips of party leaderships. He said the bill recommends the establishment of a website where each every person’s details – assets and expenditures – would be displayed.

Gilani remains cool

Responding to the impending tussle for power between the PTI and PML-N and other opposition parties, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani said that the government does not need to ‘show their strength or muscle’, and added that intelligence agencies were with them.

The PM was talking to reporters on the sidelines of the 125th Founder’s Day of the Aitchison College in Lahore on Saturday.

When asked whether the PPP would demonstrate its street power in response to the public show of strength displayed by the PTI and PML-N, Gilani said that ‘it was not worth the government’s time to indulge in such activities’.

Published in The Express Tribune, November 13th, 2011. 

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Reader Comments (112)

  • Realist
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:26AM

    I am an expatriate Pakistani and donate 10 USD on monthly basis to PTI.
    I don’t know about establishment and N League need to prove it first.
    However as a sane Pakistani, I know about IJI, General Jilani and General Zia.
    I am sure that PPP will not win a single seat in KPK in the next election.
    It is humiliating the people of Pakistan and considering that they will still vote for PPP.
    Dear Pakistanis ! Let’s refocus and strengthen PTI by joining its cause.
    Thanks

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  • Not me
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:33AM

    It is difficult to exactly estimate crowd at public rally.Even absent publicity-driven pressures to hype the size of a public gathering, no crowd that doesn’t go through a turnstile can be counted without some margin of error.
    A method for mob measurement
    The method goes back to the late 1960s and a University of California at Berkeley journalism professor named Herbert Jacobs, whose office was in a tower that overlooked the plaza where students frequently gathered to protest the Vietnam War. The plaza was marked with regular grid lines, which allowed Jacobs to see how many grid squares were filled with students and how many students on average packed into each grid.
    After gathering data on numerous demonstrations, Jacobs came up with some rules of thumb that still are used today by those serious about crowd estimation. A loose crowd, one where each person is an arm’s length from the body of his or her nearest neighbors, needs 10 square feet per person. A more tightly packed crowd fills 4.5 square feet per person. A truly scary mob of mosh-pit density would get about 2.5 square feet per person. In Pakistan for most rally/public meetings a safe estimate would be 4 square feet per person
    The trick, then, is to accurately measure the square feet in the total area occupied by the crowd and divide it by the appropriate figure, depending on assessment of crowd density. Thanks to aerial photos or mapping applications like Google Earth, even outdoor areas can be readily measured these days.
    Using 4 sq feet per person and using Google Earth map of the public meeting site, Imran Khans rally had atleast 250,000 persons whereas Nawaz Shariff’s Bhatti Gate rally at most had 50,000 persons

    No wonder PPP and PML-N are scared…..

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  • Omar
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:34AM

    Nawaz was ok when this same was being done against the PPP in the form of IJI. The tables have turned now and he’s being a cry baby!! Sir, what goes around comes around! Happy elections!

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  • Anu
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:36AM

    Its not so surprising rresponse from PML-N stalwarts to the growing popularity of PTI.Since PML-N itself is a byproduct of the establishment of 1980’s, it fails to recognize the fact that any political change can be brought without establishment’s green signal…there may be some limited involvement but the current wave has a lot to do with the pathetic governance of ruling elite, constant disregard to the public interest and record breaking rampant corruption.The country badly needs a third force and PTI is the obvious option.It is high time that the abysmal 18% voter turn out in 2008 elections increases substantially in 2013 to atleast 50% and PTI makes a significant impact in the upcoming elections…

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  • Nadeem
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:37AM

    Chaudhry Nisar was the first one to sell his soul to the devil back in 1990, in order to gain power through the back door. 21 years down the road he is irked that the Captain is taking the same route. Wrong is wrong, no matter what year we are in. Imran Khan, please don’t be so desperate for power – please do not accept assistance from the army. It is illegal, immoral, unethical, and eventually you will lose the people’s respect as they see that instead of solving their problems you are pursuing the army’s agenda of isolationism, armed militias, arms race at the expense of development, protecting the militiary’s business ventures, and preventing the transformation of Pakistan from a security state to a welfare state.

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  • Starboy
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:38AM

    ISI & Pak army is under the command of Prime Minister like other institutions in pakistan. It is impossible that the ISI activities will go unnoticed. Everybody knows that PML(n) was created by ISI & General Zia Ul Haq. Geneal Gilani statement is on record, That i have given 35 lakh rupees to Nawaz Shareef. So plz stop blaming others.

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  • k. Salim Jahangir
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:42AM

    If Army & ISI are supporting Imran Khan, which i trust they are not,this is the best way,short of imposing Marshal Law, to get rid of corrupt & incompetent rulers & Nawaz Sharif who for some obscure reason has a mental fixation to dismantle Pakistan Army. Before coming into power,he has created a formidable enemy.

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  • Yasin
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:42AM

    Shair ..
    Jurm – Motorways, Nuclear Blasts..

    Saza – Murder of Democracy ..

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  • ihtisham
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:42AM

    PML(N) is really worried & confused how to stop the spreading tsunami of PTI.

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  • Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:46AM

    PML-N will crush PTI in Elections ..

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  • Umar
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:48AM

    I am not PML-N supporter, but PTI cnt get seats from the PML-N strong holds..
    Ground realities are totally different ..Recommend

  • Johny
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:00AM

    This just shows how scared PML (N) are. and how much they feel in secure from any progressive party in their corner of “political right”. More so it shows the narrow and prejudicial mind of Nawaz Sharif, who still has Oct 1999 haunting him. He shall never be able to shrug off nightmarish khaki image from is thoughts…..Recommend

  • fahim
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:07AM

    you muppit got no idea how fast the world is changing today you can support your cildrens tomorow some one will kidnap them things are going from bad to worse and you can sit and cry here but the fact is imran is the new face of emergning pakistan my 60 year old mother is asking eveery one to vote for imran she is convinced by establishment as well you fool.

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  • Starboy
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:15AM

    ISI & Army works under the Federal Govt. like other institutions. How can ISI support PTI without the permission of Federal Govt. Same old allegations, PML(N) should present something credible.

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  • Mirza
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:19AM

    PML-N and Sharif brothers have been political offspring of worst military dictator Zia. They only recently fell off with the army and the army “adopted” their turncoats PML-Q as King’s Party under Mush. If Hashmi were not there, PML-N and Sharif Brothers would have been completely irrelevant. It is very true that many of Mush’s remnants and PML-Q lotas have started joining PTI signaling the birth of another King’s Party with a different name. This is supported by the fact that in the past few months the talk of Mush’s APML has been muted. Mush’s King’s Party is now back with a new name and a new leader and perhaps waiting for Mush to sneak in. ISI is innocent; they have no idea about PTI or King’s Party just like they had no idea about OBL and the other terrorists in Pakistani cities and military bases. PML-N has been a King’s Party and knows full well how ISI works for its formation.

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  • Rehman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:20AM

    PML(N) warns ISI & Army to support its party again, or face allegations.

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  • Saqib
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:21AM

    If people come out against PML N it means establishment is supporting them? Ridiculous. There’s no single achievement of PML’s current government. Is there any? Of course people will throw them out and help of establishment is not needed in that. PTI will surely bring change in this country.

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  • zia ur rehman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:23AM

    @Yasin:
    hmm.. Motor way: Chinese co-operation, just like they co-operated with us in launching Pakistan’s first ever indigenous satellite and all know that foundation of strong relations with the chinese were laid by zulfiqar ali bhutto.

    Nuclear tests:.. Nawaz sharif did not wanted to do it and was doing diplomacy, as exposed by dr aq khan and gohar ayub in many talk shows..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDkaoqt11o <——- this is what i am talking about..

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  • Jahan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:23AM

    Just because you were created by a Dictator doesn’t mean everybody else is. Imran Khan is not a new name he has struggled 15 years and his hard work is paying off so stop finding lame excuses in order to hide your friendly opposition and miss management.

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  • affan dawood
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:26AM

    Well what else can they say against imran khan . . . . they cannot open his personel life bcoz it is not 97 , they cannot put up a corruption charge against imran khan bcoz it will counter them and thus only one allegation remains which is of ISI . . i say why wait , show the evidences to the world that imran khan is ISI agent and same is the case with imran , if he has any documents of Nawaz and zardari assets then show it to the whole world . . .

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  • zia ur rehman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:30AM

    @Umar:
    dude.. we have already routed them in nawaz sharif’s jati umra PP 160 and will rout them in their all constituencies this time… InshAllah!!!

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  • Shane
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:33AM

    PTI and IK are the only credible political vision in Pakistan. these statements were expected and ofcourse without any base. PMLN doesn’t know how to tackle the PTI’s popularity and the trust people have in PTI.

    Nisar has always been giving these stories..Nawaz has started his propoganda..but see now the difference is that we are not stupid..we are politically aware!!!so we know that PPP and PMLN have nuthing solid..all statements and BS!!!..you have played with our lives enough..you guys are done!!! Immoral people!!

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  • babar
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:48AM

    @ umar and khan

    You are living in a fantasy land .. we are from PML N stronghold to and ground realities are that people completely hate PML N and PPP now peope are fed up with these old parties whom have given us nothing we have no electricity no gas no justice no food security poor is becoming poorer and rich is becoming richer day by day so we want change now people want change and inshaAllah there will be change now . and i would stress this here i know people would say imran khan is this is that they will say so many bad things for propoganda now but no one can point a fingure on his honesty and bravery which no other leader posseses !! and even if he dosent win the election but we will vote with conscience and we will be satisfied deep inside that atleast we voted for the right person and rest is on Allah who makes people victorious and we do have great faith in Allah this time destiny of our country is gona change there is hope sense of optmism is air .. and i do feel pit for educated people like you whom have not open there eyes even after 60 years of destruction of our counrty when all these so called leaders and parties have ruined our country with corrouption social unjustice theft are few things to name !! and lastly i would pray to Allah that E shows people like yourselves how to see the truth people like you .. And i appeal to my fellow Pakistani citizens please please help bring the change try to change peoples opinion towards PTI and make them Vote PTI so our country can be as prosperous as Turkey malaysia indonesia am naming them cause they are muslim countries and they become prosperous under the honest leadership in last decade so please do think about what am trying to say . and sorry if i have offended either Umar or Thanks

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  • Moeed
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:51AM

    @Yasir: your ‘sher’ ran to Jeddah scared from Musharraf.
    Motorway was good but atomic blasts were done on pressure of public and scientists of Atomic Energy Commission. See AQ khans interview on u tube.
    This guys Nawaz came through Zia and now he is blaming the establishment for his weaknesses.

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  • Salman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:52AM

    Those who are a creation of establishment themselves would always think like this about others.

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  • Nadeem
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:56AM

    Nobody expected the lahore rally to turn out the way it did, so I am hoping I be surprised at elections. Like most people I too am in favor of PTI because the other options are .. umm .. disgusting. They steal, cheat, lie and then act like it is their god given right to do so.

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  • amir
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:03PM

    i support Imran khan… and i m not establishment/ISI

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  • Masood Raja
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:03PM

    How is afraid of Imran Khan & his party? All those who are busy in looting & plundering the country.What Imran Khan has and his opponents don’t have is truthfulness, integrity and honesty.Everybody knows that Sharifs since they are in power have increased 4000 per cent of their wealth through corruption and unfair means.On the other hand Zardaris & his cronies transfered millions of dollars in their Swiss accounts through corruption.ANP & MQM are in the same wagon of looting the pooriest people of Pakistan.Imran Khan is representing the youth of Pakistan.He is the voice of middle class, worker, and intelligencia of Pakistan.One can easily understand that why PML N or PPP are threnthened by PTI’s successful Lahore ralley. The only reason is they are scared of their accoutability & trail. Let the people of Pakistan judge through their free and fair election.The day of judgement is ahead and many of these crooks will disappear from our national political scene.

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  • Fauzia Haider
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:07PM

    Success of one rally doesn’t mean that the PTI win in the upcoming general elections is a done deal. There are older, more established political parties with a better infrastructure and reach within both the Rural and Urban populace. Elections are not just won by winning the Urban vote. The bigger electorate is in the rural areas where people will still vote for baradris and tribes. Established political parties should not freak out. Imran Khan may win some seats but it won’t be a landslide victory.

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  • Haris Mirza
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:08PM

    pak army need to mend their ways in the country and outside the country with Indo & Us, one should be true to ones salt, > Us aids. Stop living on Us aids and interfere in politics.

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  • Waqar ahmed
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:16PM

    Would Ch. Nisar like to explain who made Nawaz Sharif prime minister . Was it not the Army and the ISI. Does he think the people of Pakistan are stupid or do not remember. Please stop crying and try to understand, the time of PPP and your party is finished.

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  • Aftab Kenneth Wilson
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:18PM

    In fact both are afraid from each other and the rest are laughing at them. Let us all expect a Serial Drama of “Accusations” from both sides which will educate the masses whom to vote for in the coming elections ………. if they are ever held.

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 12:19PM

    no matter how successful “PTI” would be in elections, one thing has made assurance “once again” that “Nawaz” and his party only think about themselves and they are in “panic mode” rite now trying every possible ways(even dirty) to bring “PTI” down. If they would have been real patriot they should have pledged to join hands with “PTI”…..!!

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  • tasavur
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:23PM

    wts abt PML N that is also creation of ESTABLISHMENT , wt was the criteria of selection of NAWAZ , how he became CM after dat PM of PAKISTAN ?????
    PML N n PPP can not this TSUNAMI of IMRAAN KHAN …………. INSHAALLAHRecommend

  • Nov 13, 2011 - 12:24PM

    chaudhary Nisar should explain that why he was visiting US embassy in Uk to lobby for his daughter to get US Green visa especially when he talks about general public who live a life in destitution because of their corruption and lack of leadership skills. On one hand he criticizes Establishment and on the other hand his party was created by them. If he is against establishment , then he should resign from parliament and leave PML N which was founded by a person who was a poodle Of Gen Zia who murdered Great Bhutto. He should run independently and not join any party.People of Pakistan do understand the difference between a horse and a mule. Thanks to media, now people will vote only to honest and credible leaders. Those old days of harping about establishment and though being themselves most corrupt criticizing others should leave politics because no one will vote for them.People of Pakistan are fed up with two major political parties.

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  • Rana
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:25PM

    Has Ch. Nisar and Nawaz Sharif been telling TRUTH to nation for last 26 years? NO NO.. you both have ZERO yes 0 credibility in our eyes? just to remind you, low class Pervaiz Elahi Govt. was way much better than current Punjab Govt… get a life PML-N

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  • Ishrat Salim
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:31PM

    PML N is itself the product of Gen Zia….& look which party is crying….??Recommend

  • ijaz Mir
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:35PM

    Wind of change is written all over,Join the wagon train before it is late for you.But I do not know if Imraan will except you unless you declare your real assets and farm house of Islamabad. good luck.Recommend

  • romm
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:40PM

    Sons of establishment yelling against parents,,,,,should nt they be called Naa Farmaaan???

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  • Jamil Ahmed
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:49PM

    Look who is blaming ISI for supporting PTI. Namaz Sharif himself is a creation of the worst military dictator of all times. Nawaz not only supported dictator Zia but also joined his illegal government. People are supporting Imran Khan because he is breath of fresh air in the midst of corrupt and dishonest politicians.

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  • Aslam
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:52PM

    @Masood Raja:
    at least give some proof of your baseless allegation. ohh, then off-course you are from PTI, and you words are ‘God Written’, you don’t have to prove anything.
    just come in the media and say everything valid/invalid against anyone.
    everyone has to get a ‘corrupt’ or ‘un-corrupt’ certificate from PTI ‘revolutionaries’ burgers.

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  • Jamil Ahmed
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:53PM

    @Haris Mirza: These are the politicians who are living on US aid. What do you mean by mending was with “Indo”.

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  • momi
    Nov 13, 2011 - 12:53PM

    Stop supporting Imran Kahn or PMLN will go for a long visit to a foreign country..hahahaha

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  • goggi
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:01PM

    Imran Khan is serving the function of a peaceful outlet, to release the pent-up frustrations and aggressions of the people of Pakistan, especially the disoriented younger generation. This enormous support to IK is a protest reaction to the daylight robberies and economical disparities from the conscienceless politicians of Pakistan.

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  • Checkmate
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:14PM

    @ PML N! Your standpoint is as rubbish as your politics. Period!

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 1:15PM

    Nawaz League was ruling out IK some weeks or months back, there was no talking of him then, no links with ISI or establishment, why then suddenly after a mamoth rally at Lahore, they start talking about the blame game, why not for the past 3 years they were silent about the zardari regime and why now they are yelling..NAwaz league is the biggest hypocrat party who was born under the umbrella of a establishment by zia ul haq. many in punjab, even kp and karachi supported IK in the next electionsRecommend

  • zia ur rehman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:17PM

    PML-N is a very funny party!!…It’s statements make me laugh everytime.. lolz..:D

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 1:46PM

    It is very strange that those who are the product of Army cry aaaarmmmmyyyyy.
    Nawaz Shareeef has no moral reason to do any politics. He is a business man and should restrict his activities to buisiness only. There is no Zia to pick him up and make him CM. That incidently is true for ‘Great” Bhutto also who was picked by his ‘daddy’ and he later became nafarmaan beta.

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  • Mohammad Assad
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:50PM

    So its OK, that PML Q leaders defect and join PML N ( the maneka group in the Punjab assembly) but its not ok whem PML Q leader defect and join a party that is NOT in power (i.e. PTI ). The former is to strengthen democracy but the latter is on the connivance of the establishment.

    Come on ! How stupid do you think we are? Recommend

  • fahad
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:53PM

    After PTI rally, Nawaz Sharif as usual went for medical check up to london….but this time, he actually went for a “medical checkup”.

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 1:54PM

    Its absurd even to think that PML(N) is afraid of PTI people who think like that honestly need to do some more work on facts and on ground realities..what is PTI? a party based on weak grounds…no political sense….no concrete policies to the current and the most significant issues.. emtional speeches by their 60 years old teenager leader Imran khan..which can appeal only to those who are taken away by his charasmatic personality…..how can some one be so foolish and childish like Imran khan…..just hue n cry and gathering people and calling them a threat to a party like PML(N) dream on PTI…soon you will no less then a party like APML…..

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  • Not me
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:01PM

    Why did you not post my comments?. There was no abusive post but a simple scientific analysis of the number of participants in Imran Khan rally and PML-N rally.If you have any comments on it your tabloid should submit counter views.No censorship………

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:02PM

    @hammad:
    if PTI is so patriot and so much concerned about people of Pakistan then they too join PML(N) but they will not reason being PPP and establishment will never let this happen…ppp and army is using Imran n PTI for their benefit and Imran in his eagerness of becoming Prime Minister (which he can never) is overlooking everything….how would you jusify “mian jee jan do houn sadhi waree ann doo” why he address Nawaz shariff why not Zardari???

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:03PM

    @Rana:
    lol…..lol…nothing else on ur comment

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  • Bhatti
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:05PM

    When somebody gets scared and sees himself failing, he loses his mind and starts talking nonsense... That’s the reality folks, may God help PPP and PML-N leaders.
    And yes, rightly said by @ amir:
    I SUPPORT IMRAN KHAN/PTI AND I’M NOT ESTABLISHMENT/ISI

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  • Engr. Mohsin
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:14PM

    @Yasin, It costs Rs. 24,400,000,000 x 85 to develop one atomic bomb and your extravagant leader Nawaz Sharif exploded five of them it. That is why I don’t like PML N.

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  • Fahd
    Nov 13, 2011 - 2:51PM

    @ Mariam: COz the jalsa was in LAhore…..duh what a question. let me also remind you of the fact that since your party is so adamant on hanging zardari and his people, nawaz sharif was the person who made cases against zardari. HE put him in jail for 11 years. His saif ur rehman made all the cases, then when zardari had to become president you did not object on him, coz u had forgot about the cases for the SAKE OF DEMOCRACY( actually sake of government), then you took oath under musharraf, then you quit, then you did a long march than didnt work, then you did another one but came back from gujrnawala to SAVE THE SYSTEM, then you made forward block and accepted lotas, then you told ppp to quit, then u launched movement against ppp, and now u are against imran. WOW, what a visionary leader nawaz sharif is, absolutely great. LEt me tell you, nawaz will now accept all lotas back of pmlq at election time. Your party leaders dont have a vision for the next day, how can u run a country. and then you say that pti is establishment supported. May I also remind you the cH. Nisar was the one who took shahbaz sharif at night to meet qiyani many times.Recommend

  • Kashi
    Nov 13, 2011 - 3:07PM

    PMLN released the US spy in Lahore who killed innocent ppl, PML N is supporting all terrorist groups in Punjab, Nawaz sharif how you become rich, how much you pay tax for PAK,??? you spent money on your Rallies from Govt account the money is given by taxes of poor ppl, instead of spending this money on them…if you have SHAME then leave politics and give chance to some good person who can make PAK in progressive way…Accept your defeat by PTI. Politics is not your forefathers Heritage…Recommend

  • Nov 13, 2011 - 3:08PM

    @Mariam Khan:
    you are supporting PML N and accusing PTI just because on your ethnic belonging may be and not because of the ground realities. You should just look around Punjab, the poverty and lawlessness under PML N has ten folded increase against Musharraf time which is way better than them, SHarifs has amassed enormous wealth, corrupt to the core. IMRAN khan is all but atleast not corrupt like them, he is breath of frsh air, u cannot just loathe him by calling him a teenager etc etc your comments speaks about your stereotypical mindset

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  • Aijaz Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 3:13PM

    Well this fight between the PTI and PML-N is merely a ‘noora-kushti’.They are the team of the future.But they won’t want to expose it right now so they are faking a rivalry at the moment.Period.
    Pakistan is in dire need of a military coup at the moment.As simple as that.

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 3:13PM

    @mohammad Shakil Akhtar
    “That incidently is true for ‘Great” Bhutto also who was picked by his ‘daddy’ and he later became nafarmaan beta.”

    One must not forget history they say, it would be repeated as a farce.

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  • salman
    Nov 13, 2011 - 3:18PM

    This is great, PML-N is actually giving more publicity to PTI and making themselves look bad in the process.

    The reason Kiyani would not listen, is because there is no point wasting time on conspiracy theories…

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 3:20PM

    Imran Khan has support in Karachi as well…IMRAN KHAN come to Karachi you will definatley have bigger rally than Lahore, I know many many Karachities urban youth, educated middle class supports you

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  • Farhan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 3:31PM

    Lets assume it for a moment that Imran/PTI are being sponsored by the establishment/Agencies. I am glad that the hands that created the corrupt are going to bring them down as well. The winds of change are imminent and I hope for the sake of our nation that corrupt and ugly names like Bhutto and Sharif are wiped out forever. I would urge everyone to leverage this opportunity and not question the establishment at this point and let the dice roll. This is a dream that needs to be realized for the sake of future generations. We need a nation that has strong ethics, morals and lives fearlessly. We need to restore our pride in the global village.

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 4:07PM

    Imran Khan has definitely caught the imagination of the people of Pakistan.As usual in south asia, the politicians start moving to the winning horse. I as an Indian is worried about the support he is getting from Gneral Hamid Gul (rtd)of ISI and Prof Hafeez Saeed. His views on women’s rights are also feudalistic. But he is a honest man. Honest people do not make good leaders.

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  • ali
    Nov 13, 2011 - 4:12PM

    this is time for Imran to win the batlle cuz alll other are Reshwat khooor

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  • Shahzad
    Nov 13, 2011 - 4:29PM

    Even if we consider that the quantity was not as much as media’s calculation. It’s the people matters who came to the rally. Majority of the people had never attended any rally or protest in their whole life. Their were families with young kids & old people. Not the ones who are brought from Villages or not who can brought in on 1- 2 days notice. It wasn’t a typical Political party rally/jalsa from any big party like PPP, PML or even MQM.

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  • Amir Wayn
    Nov 13, 2011 - 4:47PM

    Nawaz, You have such fear of establishment on your soul & mind that any ghost shadow you see you susptect ISI and Army. Recommend

  • Ali
    Nov 13, 2011 - 4:58PM

    neither Isi or pak army is behind pti its only the millions of people who are sick of pmln and all other parties in pakistan they want a change and inshallah with our support PTI would bring that change stop being a sore loser and just admit the fact your time is up while Pti is the rising sun for this country

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  • Imran ka dost
    Nov 13, 2011 - 4:58PM

    Imran Khan will cause a major upset in the upcoming elections with the help of the establishment, but then he’ll be in trouble, because he would want to do things his way, and the establishment would want to pull the strings their way. But even then, PTI is still the cleanest party in the lot, and it would therefore be prudent to vote for PTI, so as to see what kind of political, economical change they can create.

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  • Shahid Malik
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:07PM

    @Anu:
    PTI can only spoil things for Nawaz League. However, if Establishment can arrange some strong candidates for PTI, then it can secure a few seats. The public meeting was impressive but after all, it was only one jalsa which is being blown out of proportion.

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  • Khurram Dastageer
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:10PM

    If ISI is supporting PTI, then PML-N will surely ask for RAW support. This is fearful. Look what
    RAW has done in bangladesh.

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  • Shahid Malik
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:10PM

    @Jahan:
    Just like Establishment created Nawaz Sharif, it is now promoting Imran.

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  • Aftab Kenneth Wilson
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:20PM

    @Mirza: You are right Mirza.

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  • Ghulam Mustafa Chaniho
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:21PM

    as they say much ado about nothing

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  • Anjum
    Nov 13, 2011 - 5:41PM

    @Nadeem:
    Maybe it is in the national interest now to get a government or a strong party in Pakistan that is based on democratic principles wanting genuinely to make economic and social progress in Pakistan. So good that our establisment protect PTI from evil eyes from the other currupted parties based on feudalism and where the parties have a strict king type ruling and control. Maybe. Pakistan Zindabad

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  • Nov 13, 2011 - 6:17PM

    @captainjohann

    I have not heard anywhere of Hafiz Saeed supporting him. And perhaps as an Indian you should see this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWNX1Gg1l0

    And pray do tell his views on women?

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:20PM

    @Dr. Kamran:
    first to clear u one thing i was one of the biggest supporter of PTI and was a part of their blog team….so there must be a reason why i left PTI and i have no ethnic belonging or attachment with PML(N) its just that now i have started looking things with more rational approach and u are talking about Punjab…just do little research which province is in better condition compartively??? dont talk on heresay.. and there is a differnce between provincial govt and federal govt….there are things which are not under the control of provincial govt……go and find out what is PEEF?? and you are talking that Imran is breath of fresh air are you sure??do you have any idea who are the people joining him??the leftovers corrupt bunch are now part of PTI….and you people bring change with all the corrupt lot….every one can talk larger then life things but on “ground realities” things are way different….and coming to assests declaration….can you guarnatee that Imran has declare his all assests???what about his bani gala???what about his property shown as gift to Jamima under Musharaf??what about buying 50 canals(fertlied land) just for mere amount??so think rationally dont just get carried away with his personality and emtional and larger then life talks and reforms.Recommend

  • Ghulam Mustafa Chaniho
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:27PM

    much ado about nothing

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  • Realist.
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:39PM

    The guy with first comment Please start using your own nick!Recommend

  • Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:40PM

    @Starboy:
    We all know how much ISI or Army is under the control of any govt. Lets not fool ourselves anymore.

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  • Shehzad
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:48PM

    hello dear it is too soon to talk about Imran khan taking on the PML N…Let the election
    decide it….

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  • Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 6:49PM

    @Yasin:
    Yes in 2 tenure they had one project of Motorway … We sure didn’t elect PML & PPP five times just for building one road .. both Zardari & Nawazs are 2nd and 4th richest person of the country due to their government. Its not a country of 3 people who will always rule it but a country of 180 Million people … we should always try new faces if they are not able to reduce poverty, illiteracy, debt, population control etc
    Why should one elect them again when they didn’t do any thing in their 13-14 years of governments together. And stop giving credit of NB to nawaz govt .. it don’t know how was it an achievement at first .. we already had it it not that it was developed on 28th May 1998 .. neither it was decision of Nawaz Sharif as what ever Pak Mil does is their own decision .. the day any elected representative try to impose their single decision on Army, is always their last day in govt.

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  • Adnan Ilyas
    Nov 13, 2011 - 7:00PM

    PML-N is insulting people now , it is calling us who went to 30th Jalsa army agents, we went there to support PTI and Imran Khan , we were not forced to go there , but now instead of mending their ways PML-N is calling us people of establishment, I pity their mental state.
    If leaders of PML-Q joins hands with PML-N then its OK! if they decide to join PTI and become part of the struggle then they are ISI agent, I think ISI should come out and take these corrupt PML-N leaders to courts

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  • Ch Allah Daad
    Nov 13, 2011 - 7:02PM

    Let’s believe there were 2.5 million people in rally, but question is how far Imran Khan is from power? If this government survives till march, then it will gain majority in upper house and make life difficult for any non PPP government, and if its removed before march, then forget elections for some time. Therefore in my humble opinion, Imran is still very very far away from power. If he keeps on falling in establishment’s trap, we can see him as un-elected PM in some kind of care taker government, which will end his career for ever.

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  • jamal jani
    Nov 13, 2011 - 7:05PM

    Over the time PML-N is forgetting one thing. They themselves were created my ISI and Army.
    hey guy Do you remember your GOD father general ZIA.

    For Mr.Nisar who is now becoming honest man. Did you forget those days when you were Minister Petroleum in first and second Nawaz Govt. and you ordered two cars from each Oil Company and Refinery for personal use. So many vehicles that you did not have place to park them.Recommend

  • antanu
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:06PM

    Nawaz Sharif has obviously got leave of his senses. He can not think beyond hanging Musharraf and blaming army

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  • bahraini
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:17PM

    The sun is setting on PML N !

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:22PM

    @Fahd:
    jalsa in lahore shows the democracy by the punjab govt…open challenge to imran khan do a jalsa of his own in karachi not sponosred by MQM…or PPP…..and PML(N) are not afraid of PTI and where were you when the long march for the restortion of judiciary take place were you in an other palnet??ppl came to street after Nawaz shariff…where were ur leader Imran khan on that day??where was he??How come according to you so corrupt PML(N) comes to street to restore judiciary n to condemn NRO by muasharaf?? Imran khan cannot lead a nation….he is just a good philanthropist nothing else so is EDHI….it was Imran khan who back Musharaf….it was Imran khan who was with Fazul Rehman at one time…it was Imran who wanted to altaf hussian handcuffed but what happens he end up in calling him on phone…amazing..13th August azadi jalsa in islamabad was fully sponosred by APML…all memebers of APML were there…and today ur leader talk against nawaz sharif just for the heck of it…he doesnt have any concrete thing against him…he forgot it was Nawaz sharif who gave him the tax free land and machinery for SKMT…it was Nawaz Sharif who came to help him when Imran refused to meet Benazir….and it was ur leader who came to the airport for Nawaz shariff came from his exile..and all of a sudden nawaz shariff becomes the most corrupt person??accept it Imran khan is confused and immature …he dont know which way to go….he chnages his stance according to his mood…..Recommend

  • Pakistani
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:31PM

    In the next elections please vote for a change. The already tested politicians have always brought along corruption, misery and inflation for the nation.Please do not vote the old well-tried corrupt politicians who already had several regimes in the current and past governments of Pakistan.

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  • Realist. (ORIGINAL)
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:41PM

    You know whats the worst thing about all this hype created by Media for PTI ?
    Torus have started flying in the air!
    they expect toooo much, rigid in their views & they’re NOT even ready to listen what others say!
    Election day will be a sad day for torus , when Pasha Airline will eject them without parachutes :s

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  • olive & mustard combined
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:44PM

    Shariff brothers were indeed surprised by Imran’s mammoth Lahore show.They should hold their breath now to see Imran in Multan, Peshawar and Karachi and ultimately at the footsteps of Islamabad from where PTI’s long march would sweep corrupt establishment that is the bulwark of Shariff brothers and other politicians like him.In fact, these bothers are product of a lunatic regime of a general and in cahoot with others plundered Pakistan more than all the politicians together.Their ultimate eclipse was overdue and it is time that their plundered wealth should return to Pakistan’s treasury.Recommend

  • Pakistani
    Nov 13, 2011 - 8:56PM

    @ Mariam Khan
    Why are you against PTI / Imran Khan ? Which politician in our country is not corrupt ? If we compare PML(N) and PTI leaders corruption element , then it is self-explanatory that who is more corrupt and wealthy.Furthermore, there are two political leaders at the moment who can pay-off Pakistan’s debt in 24 hours, if they bring back the money parked in their international accounts across the globe. Is Imran khan / PTI that much corrupt and wealthy that they can pay-off Pakistan debt ? NO . Are the leaders of PML(N) and PPP in a position to pay-off Pakistan debt ? YES …. So, why not we the stupid citizens of a fragile nation should not vote for a change in the form of Imran Khan who is less corrupt then others … Do we have any other leader who is not corrupt at all and also enjoys good reputation in public ? Please suggest any name in this regard.If you don’t intend to vote for a change in the next elections then its my request that please also do not vote the already well-tried so called corrupt politicians whom you are defending in your comments.

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  • WoW
    Nov 13, 2011 - 9:44PM

    All of a sudden, everyone is blaming ISI. So the American were not wrong.

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  • Mariam Khan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 9:55PM

    @Pakistani:
    as i said prevuoisly on this forum i was a biggest infact die hard supporter of PTI but what ponders me not to support him anymore….i supported him till he was just Imran khan n PTI was just his party…no tom dick n harry were part of it…no ISI…no army no MQM ..Musharaf Apml…nothing….till 2007 elections there was not even a single finger pointing at him.. ..but today he has taken on board ppl who are the leftovers and the opportunists and with these ppl into his league he will not bring any change…therefore for me in my desperation of change i will not vote for some one like him who is just adding all the fired catridges and now his eagerness to be in power is much visible. i will go for trying something new only when i can visibly see the difference between tried and untried…just change of face without any concrete solution to problems and irrational approach to policies.,.for me its not the change we all are looking for….

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  • Abrar
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:27PM

    IK is consistent only when criticising PML N,infact he is more inconsistent when talking about PPP. In an interview with Indian affiliate CNN/IBN he says

    “Responding to a question about President Zardari’s remarks three years ago that the Kashmir issue be set aside for resolution by a future generation while India and Pakistan worked on CBMs, Khan said: “I certainly agree with that line of thinking”

    http://www.kashmirdispatch.com/headlines/13116923-india-pak-should-put-kashmir-on-back-burner-imran-khan.htm

    That is a big U trun on the biggest foreign policy issue for pakistan,just 2 weeks after his declaration in Minare Pakistan lahore “Hindustan should remove it’s forces from Kashmir”

    He is a loose cannon and may end up loosing the support he has garnered to reach a stage where he can launch his party to challenge the “big boys”

    IK like many other political elites are too eager to “fall in line” with the Indian line on Kashmir when appearing on their media.

    I am skeptical of this ‘one man’ show and feel the people may be taken for another ride by another “charmer” in the scene.

    Pakistan needs people more in the mould of the Chief Justice who get on with what they have to do not chauvenists and loud mouth opportunists.

    Sorry IK you sound no different then some of the others you seem to criticise.

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  • Aadersh
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:33PM

    Stop it Nisar We know everything who was created by establishment & who is not…BTW I was looking for ET report on IK’s press conference of today…Where it is??

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  • farhan
    Nov 13, 2011 - 10:57PM

    While some of us do not agree with PML-N politics, we also cannot support ISI’s interference in politics.

    It is true that PML-N was a product of GHQ, but this time ISI also making PTI.

    ISI: we do not like PML-N policies, but please do not interfere in politics anymore.

    ISI’s support to PTI will only confuse the already confuse youth who want genuine change in country.

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  • "I only want to be PM"
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:11PM

    @Realist:

    It would be humiliating the people of Pakistan to vote for FRONT MAN of ISI/ARMY.
    If Imran khan & Co. is that so honest and sincere to Pakistan then why they need oldcorrupt politicians?

    If I believe that (lets say it was true) 100 00 000 people gathered in Lahore on my call.
    Then I would not be needing Main Azhar and the old & corrupt politicians to join my party.
    Because even a crazy human can think that i donot need “heavy weights” to win elections if i can gather 100 00 000 people in one city alone.
    if people can come to rally without any ‘push” from any secret force of angels the same people can vote on election day to my any nominee.
    to understand this we donot need to do a phd.
    Having said that it is still pti supporter’s right to think that their party is growing.
    But for an independent observer it is a just drama to replace current Govt. with another king’s party. As always done by secret force of angels in past.
    Last point… if some one still want to be in fool’s paradise with an idea that imran khan will bring inqalab then its his/her own choice.

    It is still amazing to imagine that 10USD per month made pti so rich that they can do so much advertisement and arrangements.
    Because few years back pti was so low in cash that imran khan had to do <unislamic act of gambling to pay off bills of only 2 million Rs.Recommend

  • Inam ul Haq
    Nov 13, 2011 - 11:50PM

    This is for the 1st time in the history of Pakistan that someone has dared to question the authority and the role the generals had been enjoying for the last many many years. How can they allow to slip away the controle over the national politics through their hands so easily. Would they not be ever held resposible for their misdeeds whether in Kargil , Abbotabad and Mehran base humiliations. Would the corruption of the Genarals ever be unearthed. PML ( N ) has chosen a difficult path to challange the khaki esteblishment which is known for its ruthlessnes. The devils in uniform shall use all the available means to thwart the looming dangers they now find in the shape of PML ( N ).

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  • Usman Ayub
    Nov 14, 2011 - 12:24AM

    Quaid Azam > Allama Iqbal > Bhutto > and now Imran Khan

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  • Omer
    Nov 14, 2011 - 12:50AM

    If only PML – N had done half of what it was supposed to do, PTI wouldn’t be this popular. Its PML N and PPPs own short comings that has led to PTIs rise. In a couple of months, I can guarantee similar statements coming from the PPP camp after a successful rally in Sind.

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  • Shakky Pir
    Nov 14, 2011 - 1:40AM

    Nawaz Sharif reminds me of an overweight man sitting in a truckers restaurant, gorging himself on nihari and smelling of stale fried food. His political persona isn’t all that different. He’s a failed politician who needs to be put out to pasture, along with his corrupt brother. Its time we opened the doors and windows in the kitchen of Punjab politics and let in some fresh air – which is Imran Khan in this case. Lets chuck out the old Sharif pots and pans and bring in some high grade cookware.

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  • fahim
    Nov 14, 2011 - 3:03AM

    What if imran turns out to be Devil … but i am sure he will be less Evil

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  • Amna
    Nov 14, 2011 - 3:13AM

    @Mariam Khan: Im just curious, who do you plan to vote for in the upcoming elections? or are you not going to vote at all now?

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  • Lodhi
    Nov 14, 2011 - 3:20AM

    PMLN days are numbered.

    PMLN’s allegations are just SWAN SONG.

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  • Raj - USA
    Nov 14, 2011 - 3:37AM

    I feel that Pakistanis should support IK. As far as I remember, he is the only politician who was not afraid to accept his mistakes. He apologized for supporting Musharraf. Nawaz Sherif still does not have this courage to admit that he erred in appointing Musharraf over many others. Yes, IK is inexperienced and still makes some wrong decisions, like bringing in Shreen Mazzari and his association with Hamid Gul. However, IK has tamed Shreen Mazzari to a great extent. Earlier she used to be shouting in every TV debats but now-a-days, she does not do so. Hamid Gul is a convincing lier and the policies he had promoted are still causing lot of harm to Pakistan.
    Imran Khan may not be able to form a government but if his party wins significant seats, this would usher a new era to Pakistan. I would personally like Imran Khan and Nawaz Sherif to contest against each other for the same seat and for Imran Khan to win the seat with a sounding majority. If Nawaz Sherif looses even his deposit, it would be great. May be PPP shall form the government again and Zardari become the Prime Minister and Imran Khan the President.

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  • Osman
    Nov 14, 2011 - 5:13PM

    I have donated to PTI in the past from my halal kamai and will do so in the future. I support PTI but not the establishment

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  • Fasih Khan
    Nov 14, 2011 - 5:40PM

    @Jamil Ahmed: 100 % Agreed Jamil Sb …

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  • F
    Nov 14, 2011 - 9:32PM

    The establishment as well as foreign govts want a weak govt in place. Thats why the west will speak in fav of imran khan. If king khan manages to get elected, nothing will change. The west will still bully Pakistan. There will still be drone strikes. He will end up doing the same things. Imran khan will have to end up playing the same politics as anyone else. His ego will shine through like every other politicians. He will have a team of SMQs (funny how he was ok asking hillary clinton to support him and get him in the PMs slot). It doesn’t matter in the long run who is in charge. The same is true all over the world. Obama or not, American policies will not change. The real establishment is a global one and it’s strategies are the same all over the world.

    If you want change, it must come from within. Remember, the battle between good and evil will be won or lost in the hearts and minds of men.

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  • nadya
    Nov 15, 2011 - 2:00AM

    look who is talking, pml-n, party created n supported byt the agencies n general zia. all the plunderers are scared of imran khan and PTI, they are talking about the agencies and establishment making the lahore jalsa successful. well the fact is there were millions more infact hundreds of millions who were not able to come to the jalsa n show support but wished to be part of it from homes all around pakistan, have they ever counted them. there needs to be an opinion poll in this country to bring all the plunderers and theives down.

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  • Ahmer Ali
    Nov 15, 2011 - 10:25AM

    Assalam-o-Allaikum Warahmatullah.What the shameful time has come in Pakistani politics now-a-days that every politician is considering Pakistan army as its property and commanding and using army as his subordinate/colleague/junior.Whereas Pakistan Army is the only most noble,honorable and respectable department of Pakistan and serving and saving Pakistan,its nation and its sovereignty in much the best way than any corrupt politicians who have harmed Pakistan either in the government or in the opposition or starting campaign and this is totally impossible to understand that why COAS is watching all this silently or as a silent spectator.

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