US Defense Department awards $42.3m contract for Pakistan F-16 upgrades
The contract has been awarded under the Foreign Military Sales programme.
Lockheed Martin will provide upgradation kits for the Pakistan F-16 A/B Block 15 Aircraft Enhanced Modernisation Programme.
Furthermore, the package includes 18 panel "simuspheres", logistic support up to 21 months of which 12 months on-site and nine months on-call support will be provided.
Various related hardware and software systems are also included.
However, Pakistan had earlier ordered 50 JF-17 jets from China -- Pakistan's largest aircraft provider -- which are due to be delivered in six months, said a statement from the Defense Ministry of Pakistan.
Earlier, in June 2010, US delivered the first batch of Block-52 F-16 Fighting Falcon jets to Pakistan.
Pakistan paid $1.4 billion for the jets and an additional $1.3 billion for the up gradation of its previous fleet of the fighter jets.
Back in Musharraf's government, in January 2008, former US president George W. Bush scrapped nearly a $500 million deal to supply 18 F-16 jets built by Lockheed Martin Co. to Pakistan.
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@Tariq: You mean the paper currency? or economic wealth money?
@G. Din:
Only Pakistan-haters if we can. Its called a visa policy. Occassionally though, the odd hater does apparently manage to slip in.
Where does this "WE" come from?? you need to sort your script out first as its rather confusing!! Are you a taxpayer in UK or Pakistan??? to actually define this "WE" business !! Its shows your IQ level !! You are bit confused as to where you are located it seems , so when you have sorted that out, come back and hopefully with bit of maturity too, as you obviously lack that!!! Trust me, people do not trust others with their money, if they are not delivering the returns better than banks !!!!! Get the point??? In fact I really don't think that you actually know what the defination of the word "Hedgefunder" !! your sole problem is that you can not face the facts as they stand!! period!
@Adnan: to Hedgefunder "And if any one either in business or government knew about your Pakistan-hating views, do you honestly think you would ever be let into the country?! " You mean everyone who comes to Pakistan is a Paki-lover? Come on, you will be lucky if you can persuade any one with half-a-cent's worth of common sense and freedom to chose, to agree to even a layover at a Pakistani airport. Beggars cannot be choosers! You have nothing to offer to the world much less permission to visit the nightmare that is Pakistan today. Instead of engaging in hollow jingoism you would do well to read the posts of a genuine patriot, Ishtiaer Hussein above!
@Hedgefunder:
We do not need your hypocritical ‘interest’ or pathetic little ‘investment’ in our country. And if any one either in business or government knew about your Pakistan-hating views, do you honestly think you would ever be let into the country?! Why not tell us your name so that we can arrange a reception committee for you the next time you plan a trip to Islamabad- assuming you get past the Visa Officer at the Pakistan High Commission in the first place!
And please stop using this nonsensical ‘Hedgefunder’ pseudonym. Your pretensions of being a part of the community to which I happen to belong are tedious and implausible: hedge fund managers are supposed to be intelligent people who know how to make money-not hapless wind-bags with axes to grind.
@Adnan: For your info this was not a freebie junket !!! The companies invited paid for their respective expenses!!! I as a principal partner of my firm too paid for mine and assistant's cost !! So i suggest you shut up! As you obviously lack the ability to grasp the importance of such missions to your Country and the long term interests and investments of such visits too !!! Rest assure i don't have hide behind anyone or anything, and i certainly am not concerned of being blackballed by any bodies or organisations as my principal responsibility is to my investors and clients and not to anyone else!!!! From your comment its shows your lack of knowledge or apptitude to grasp the reality on ground!! If you had that little bit of common sense than you would know that only Govt Officials & Civil Servants on such trips, expenses are covered by the State !! And you are telling me you live in UK !!! yeh sure!!
@Manoj: Thanks I like and agree with the last line of your message. We Pakistanis know how to convert stiff challenges into real opportunity. These are all temporary phases of difficulties and InshAllah we will come out of it. Thanks for your understanding.
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - South Africa.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi:
The obsession to match Indian capability brought you to the level of 12 most failed state of the world. If you still want to walk the same path, choice is yours. God bless you. Regarding the war with India, many of the commentator on this article has already highlighted it that all the wars were thurst on india by Pakistan and in all wars Pakistan were defeated.
Once again best of luck to you and Pakistan. Our only wish is to see an peaceful, prosperous and educated Pakistan. Regading Poverty in india, No one in india has ever denied this facts. India is very low in human developement index. and this the reason, our leadership has started the programme of economic reforms and in the last 20 years lot many people has been brought above poverty line. We will continue on this path of peaceful progress. India also needed many field gun and aircraft and for the last 20 years demand of armed forces were kept in cold storage, just to save money and deployee it on productive work. Only now, after ensuring a sustain growth rate of 8% + india has gone for negotiating deal for 126 fighter aircraft and field gun is still far off. You will appreciate that if army without any civilian control takes decision, they will sacrifice need of common people to buy the military hardware, and this is excatly happening in Pakistan. India and Pakistan are same people with equal intelligence and capability with only difference of functioning democracy in india and absence of same in Pakistan. This has caused setting wrong priority in Pakistan. any way, it's your country and you are the best judge to decide your priority.
@Nazir Habib: Beside our superior (better than India) Missile Technology and arsenals, We certainly need alternate capability to carry Neuclar devices on board F16 which is why they are very essential for Pakistan Airforce. We cannot make compromise on this issue - which is a vital one.
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - South Africa
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Doctor Sahib you are sitting in the "Land of Burkis, Boers and White Wolves." So everything made by the whites has to be superior and that is why the F16's are good. Why dont you look around you to see the abject condition the locals were kept in by the Anglo-Dutch community before Mr. Nelson Mandela set RSA free. Salams.
@ishtiaer hussain:
You are again right, sir. We have so many things to deal with at once. Our plate is already full. We need to eliminate the political role of the army and make it subordinate to the civilian leadership. We need to strenghten our political institution, particularly parliament. We have long been trying to weaken parliament by supporting military dictators and now supreme court judges. Generals and judges can’t solve our political problems. We need to shape up a coherent and consistent policy against terror outfits operating on the soil of our country. We need to ditch the policy of differentiating between “good taliban” and “bad taliban”. We need to reconsider our foriegn policy and try to improve relations with all countries, including India. We need to invest more resources in education and focus on economic development. I have read the comments of many of my countrymen in this forum and i have become disappointed with them. These are the guys from educated middle class and they behave like madrassah students. Their world-view is limited and they all too often believe in conspiracy theories. By putting you head in sand, you can remain in a state of denial or in a bubble you have created around yourself, but you can’t contribute towards the solution of our real problems. The first genuine step towards solving any problem is to accept its existence.
Mr. ishtiaer hussain, your post above shows your sincere and honest appraisal of the ills of your country and your passionate hope for solving these problems. You are so right on I thought I should quote it entirely.
If most Pakistanis feel like you do, there is no doubt that there is a bright future for Pakistan. Good luck to all Pakistanis who share your views.
@Hedgefunder: I have noticed that Indian bloggers shown more concern on this forum for the poverty and miseries in Pakistan without looking back what is happening in India, I thought it might be worth while to show them the mirror. I am sorry if it hurts you.
As I said Pakistan is a developing country and we have more challenges than India. However, having said this we know how to convert these challenges into opportunities.
Since you have mentioned about large ques outside UK mission in India, dont you think that Indian are not making such ques in Delhi outsite US embassy. Beside going legally, I read reports that many Indians are going abroad illegally hoping to find a better opportunity as the same is not available in India. If you dont believe - see the following article for USA alone:
A Zillion reasons to escape from India http://escapefromindia.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/indian-illegal-immigrants-in-us-numbers-jumped-125-since-2000/
I am not defending Pakistan or telling we are on bed of rosses but fully realize that we both the country have similar problems and you and other Indian friend should not repeatedly pointing fingers only on Pakistan.
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi
Johannesburg - South Africa
@ Hedgefunder- well said sir.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi (quack doctor):@Adnan: Read todays TOI news "Snubbed, MP farmers start engineering college- They decided to donate just Re 1 per quintal of sugarcane and build the college which would give an engineering degree to their children."
See the priorities of Indians and shed your crocodile tears about indian poverty.
I really don't get it! Why are all these people so concerned about poverty in India?? The fact is that, they are in denial mode as usual and possibly thinking that Pakistan is Paradise!!! Open your eyes and learn to face facts, as they are!!! They are simple, No International Institutions or lenders trust you as there is "Trust Deficit as to what Pakistan says and does" Its already technically defunct state, not that their Ghairat Mob commentators will acknowledge or accept, as they are so deep in their illusions, that its rather difficult to accept the fact and acknowledge the level of crises facing the Nation !! India has its problems too! For god's sake they wasted 40 years on their socialist theory and finally woke up and the economy has transformed and the growth rates can be maintained due to new influx of young, vibrant and educated stream of people every year in the market place!!! The real reason for India success is that its has over 300 million people, who can afford a lifestyle similar to europe!! That's the key and the main reason for expansion and development by large multinationals to the tune of Billions!! This process will continue and will bring rural population benefits too, in terms of power source, education and healthcare etc, This is where Pakistan really lacks the basics, hence any educated Pakistani, is likely to seek their pasture abroad, as fast as they can !! One only have to notice the Queues outside any foreign mission in Islamabad, and i know this for fact as i was in Islamabad early this year with a UK Trade Mission. This really tells me that, the people who are key to progress and development of this Nation are simply not prepared or resigned to the fact that their Nation is not where their future is!!!
@Adnan: There are not many of your lot who actually pay taxes in UK!! Go to north of England and check out towns where your lot have congregated and majority are simply unemployable as to the rest they are in business of breeding large families and claiming every benefit under the sun, and moonlighting as minicab drivers!! Tell me I am wrong and i will point you in direction to check it out!!!! Incidently, my education did not cost the state as i went to Public school, Millfield! ever heard of it ?? guess not!! So don't patronise me!!! We know all about you and your social Hypocracy too, in England!!!
@Adnan: You need to blow those people causing mayham and murders in broad daylight in Karachi first than worry about blowing up other things in Life!!! Your most important Commercial City/Port is at standstill & you guys can not even grasp the importance of such scenario!!! It certainly does nothing for confidance building exercise to encourage any new Foreign Investment in the Country, but then i suppose you must think that its not required!!!!
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Saleem, again we are burying our heads in sand and trying to avoid facing the harsh realities Pakistan is faced with. If your house catches fire, what's the first thing you will do, try to see if your neighbor's house is burning badly too?? Or are you going to try to put the fire out in your house so you can save it.
These illogical comparisons with India have gotten Pakistan nothing and have plunged Pakistan into a deeper sorry state of affairs. India spends only 2% of its GDP on defence, so they can afford it. And how much does Pakistan spend on its defense? 30%, 40% ?? Can Pakistan afford spending this much money on defense?
India also a problem with poverty, but they are bringing 1% of their poor people to middle class every year--these are all well documented facts, right!
@Hedgefunder: @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Well said Dr Sahib! Let Hedgefunder drown his sorrows in the pub!
To all the indian trolls, it is just about maintenance and upgrade - no big deal. Stop having such a COW over small things! Why is India armed to the teeth?? It is a threat to its neighbours!
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: yes its bit crazy, as I understand that India has just pumped $2 billion dollars into IMF reserve funds!!! Let alone the over $1 billion it has commited as development Aid in African countries too, this year ! Still they are on receiving end of some Aid from various programs , which really baffles the logic!!
@Dan, I thought Pakistan ended in 1971. What remains is just West Pakistan
@Manoj: Pakistan was attached thrice by India to accomplish its Akhud Bharat dream. But our valliant forces repulsed their attack and they will remember this defeat for long.
Now India will dare not see towards Pakistan with a bad eye as Pakistan is a Neuclear Power and has ability to reply tit for tat.
Therefore, Pakistan has full military capability which will be increased and modernized day by day to handle its enemy India.
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi
Johannesburg - South Africa
@Hedgefunder:
Poverty is in fact reflective in India. Greatest slump in the World. Mumbai, Delhi and Kolkatta are worst and bad spot on the face of India.
Severety of poverty in India can be judged with the following independent report:
POVERTY IN INDIA: Since its independence, the issue of poverty within India has remained a prevalent concern. As of 2010, more than 37% of India’s population of 1.35 billion still lives below the poverty line. More than 22% of the entire rural population and 15% of the urban population of India exists in this difficult physical and financial predicament.
Poverty Situation in India
The division of resources, as well as wealth, is uneven in India - this disparity creates different poverty ratios for different states. For instance, states such as Delhi and Punjab have low poverty ratios. On the other hand, almost half the population in states like Bihar and Orissa live below the poverty line.
A number of factors are responsible for poverty in the rural areas of India. Rural populations primarily depend on agriculture, which is highly dependant on rain patterns and the monsoon season. Inadequate rain and improper irrigation facilities can obviously cause low, or in some cases, zero production of crops.
Additionally, the Indian family unit is often large, which can amplify the effects of poverty. Also, the caste system still prevails in India, and this is a major reason for rural poverty - people from the lower casts are often deprived of the most basic facilities and opportunities. The government has planned and implemented poverty eradication programs, but the benefits of these programs are yet to bear fruits.
The phenomenal increase in population in the cities is one of the main reasons for poverty in the urban areas of India. A major portion of this additional population is due to the large scale migration of rural families from villages to cities. This migration is mainly attributed to poor employment opportunities in villages.
http://www.economywatch.com/indianeconomy/poverty-in-india.html
So you better keep your house in order before peeping on others - - - --
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - South Africa
@Tariq: The aid money is peanuts. What they give in aid cannot be compared with what they fleece off from Pakistanis.
strong textstrong text@Hedgefunder: Enjoy your 'cold beer' while your countrymen starve. I read somewhere that you were educated in the UK- now THAT'S a waste of the tax payer's money! I also pay my taxes in the UK and am proud to be first and foremost a Pakistani. I am proud of the UK government's educational and social welfare programmes in Pakistan. Not bitter like you.
Wait for my comment: it will put your rather sad and miserable life into context.You HAVE no arguments- everything you say is so rabidly anti-Pakistan that it is predictable and boring. I doubt anyone bothers to read your comments except perhaps for your fake 'buddies' and relatives who rush to endorse your distorted views. Pathetic.
Lost for words are we? Than stop commenting, as you obviously have no grasp as to how to conduct constructive conversation on blogs!!! What's wrong in being born and brought up in UK?? I pay my taxes which incidently some of it ends up in your country as Aid!!! We Pay our taxes and live in somewhat transparent and very tolerant society, which is lot more than can be said about your Country!!! As far as my time is concerned ! Its least of your problem !! Trust me !! Its 4.20pm, nice sunny day in London having a cold beer in a pub with my laptop, awaiting for family and than planning the weekend!!!! Get it ? You need help!!
@Hedgefunder: Dont worry, we have plenty of spares so that our F-16s can blow your 'flying coffins' out of the sky and if we run out, we have many allied airforces around the world (Turkey, UAE to name a few) who will give us some and who, like us, want to see India defeated.
You need to worry about your own antiquated, Mickey-Mouse airforce and its shambolic safety record. IAF has the worst crash record on this planet. If it is too painful for you to face the truth let me reproduce the Hindustan Globe's report on what your own Defence Minister AK Anthony said before the Lok Sabha:
" Most crashes in the IAF have been traced to pilot error, lack of training, and *bad parts".*
Your military establishment is so corrupt that you cannot even produce proper spares for your aircraft- the ones that can still fly, that is. Decades have gone by and you are still trying to produce a light combat aircraft (LCA), but you have failed. Pakistan is way ahead of you in aircraft manufacture and the JF-17, which by the way, is many ways superior to the F-16, is not only rapidly enhancing the strike capabilities of the PAF but is also being exported to other countries. PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT!
All I know is that everytime our F-16s go up, the IAF's planes high-tail and scoot in the opposite direction! Wait: I can smell burning....... Oh, it must be another Indian fighter jet going down- read what The Times of India has to say on yesterday's Jaguar crash coming as it did on the heels of the MIG-21 crash on Tuesday:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Another-IAF-jet-crashes-kills-pilot-teen/articleshow/9486330.cms
Two crashes a week? That's outstanding even by your standards!
@Dan: Yes you have survived and will survive, but always on other people's Money too!!! When are you guys going to learn to stand up and learn to walk too?? i don't recall Uk having 700 million odd people, more like 60 million !!!!! That is my home nation and proud of it too, as we always seem to be pumping money into your mess!!!
@Proud-Paki: If you have some time then visit youtube. Search for najam sethi's video of 2nd and 3rd Aug. You will come to know about 10 blunders and military dictatorships. Thanks.
@William: well said. I am sure Indians cant a name a neighbor with whom they havent fought a war or engaged in border conflict. India is a self righteous bully who thinks the whole south asia is its back yard.
India was offered the FA-18 Hornets that the US Military is still using, compared to the F-16 which is not used and used for export purposes. But, India refused saying they are not upto standards. India asked for the 5th Generation fighters that US has, but was not offered.
Pakistan still uses them. Get the picture of the quality of fighters in India's kitty now?
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: For the record, i have never attended any school in India. I did my schooling in UK and Uni in US !!! So do remove that perception, about me being indoctrinated with flawed education!! Now tell me that education system in UK is selective too!!! Yes i am well aware that Rome was not built in a day, but in Modern Globalised World that we live in, 64 years is very long time!! Take a look at countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Bangladesh and some of the former soviet block countries along with eastern european ones too and see the progress they have manage to achieve in that period !!! Need i point out your immediate neighbour, India and its progress over just last two decades!!!! Or perhaps this is not acknowledged and its just hype, created to upset pakistani mindset!!!!
@omar: You should read article written by Ejaz Haider (India - A revisionist state). There in he mentions that Pakistan attacked India in 1965 and not the other way round. There are many references on the net. Whatever may be the reasons for PAF to upgrade its assets, it cannot be atributed to distorted history which you are trying to propogate. Is not it better to simply say PAF is upgrading because it wants to keep up with the times?
@Hedgefunder:
You are again right, sir. We have so many things to deal with at once. Our plate is already full. We need to eliminate the political role of the army and make it subordinate to the civilian leadership. We need to strenghten our political institution, particularly parliament. We have long been trying to weaken parliament by supporting military dictators and now supreme court judges. Generals and judges can't solve our political problems. We need to shape up a coherent and consistent policy against terror outfits operating on the soil of our country. We need to ditch the policy of differentiating between "good taliban" and "bad taliban". We need to reconsider our foriegn policy and try to improve relations with all countries, including India. We need to invest more resources in education and focus on economic development.
I have read the comments of many of my countrymen in this forum and i have become disappointed with them. These are the guys from educated middle class and they behave like madrassah students. Their world-view is limited and they all too often believe in conspiracy theories. By putting you head in sand, you can remain in a state of denial or in a bubble you have created around yourself, but you can't contribute towards the solution of our real problems. The first genuine step towards solving any problem is to accept its existence.
@William: "You did not like Musharraf who gave you 7% economic growth, so you brought them who have given 2%, still you are not happy…..let me suggest you….bring Nawaz Sharif and I hope you will achieve -5% ……….."
Musharraf's 7% growth figure was all smoke and mirror. It was not real organic growth. What he did was to manipulate inflation and population increase levels to arrive at unreal economic "growth" levels. How can you explain that during Mush years he managed to grow the GDP from $65B to $170B, all in just six years. You do the math. It works out to an average real growth of over 25%!!! Now tell me how that is possible with such high inflation rates?
@ishtiaer hussain: Good points. Unfortuntately, your advise will fall on the deaf ears of the Establishment.
By the way, the Indian GDP now has reached $1.5 T while India still spends only 2.5% of GDP on defense.
Pakistan shuld get red of America as soon as posibel try to be frendly with neboring contrys yes this is a chance providid us by alllah al mythy we dont need to baye wapons first thing first get red of uncile sam pleas and dont worey about India thay wont dair to attack world seventh nucleair state after kicking americans belive me we will be abel to see some improvment in securty of the country we dont need american money or there so cald facke war on terrour and after this go after thous pakistani nationals who work for CIA & ROW beleve me every thing will be ok then and TTP find them and give them a bulet betwen the eyes if thay didnt stop after americans geting lost of pakistan hopfully thay will stop after all these posative things we do?????????
@Hedgefunder: You seems to be really influenced with the text books you are given for education in India which only shows one side of the story and not the FACTS.
Since we both are at the other side of the river, it is too difficult to convice you of the facts.
Regarding your suggestions what Pakistans should do, it is our country and what we will learn we will do to build our nation. Rome was not built in a day. It takes time. Pakistan is young - only 64 years of independence. India is established hundreds of years ago with industry and infrastructure. Therefore, we cannot match apple to apple.
Time is money. With Time and experience, we too will learn merits and demrits of the system and will over-come our own problems.
So by that time you must hold your horse.
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - South Africa
@Meekal Ahmed:
The fact is that your defense establishment knows the reality about once use and throw Chinese maal
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: I am taking a nutral attitude on this subject.. Pakistan is willing to spend millions to upgrade the F16's. Good for you. You are giving employment to ath Americans. What is the use of 100 odd nukes you have in your stockpile which is targetted at India and you have not agreed to a no first strike. So if there is a war with India you are at liberty to use the nukes as first strike and you can fire off all your nukes at India. and you could destroy the Indian subcontinent. By the same stroke India might be able to target Pakistan wirh a few nukes. and Pakistan too would be wiped off the surface of the world. What would both countries have achieved but their own distruction. China is Pakistans all wheather guardian. So you should be able to negotiate an all wheather defence umbrella which the Americans offered to you yeara ago and the world is not going to sit idle if India attacks without provication. So why spend all this money on refubishing the old aircrafts. If you have followed all the air defence exercises between US and India, you would have known that the Indians won in all combats either in India or US with their old French and British aircrafts against the F16"s and F18's. The American aircraft is war tested where as the Chinese fighters are not tested in actual combat situations and tested.in simulators. For them, they will have to create a situation with Japan, Russia, Vietnam or India to test their capibility. So you have a lot of cheap aircraft that could fail in real situations, whereas the indians are war tested machines be it European or Russian.
Although you are not willing to admit, Pakistan is now considered a third world country, with the biggest begging bowl,depending on IMF and ADB and Sudies to keep you alive. Don't you think it time to use all the aid coming into Pkistan for human development ie education, industry, housing for the poor and low income groups. Develop your irregation system so that there is maximum usage of water from yoyr rivers instesd of the fudals diverting the rivers to irreate their land holdings instead of sharing the water with the poorer farmers. Build new cannals that will benifit all instead of letting it flow into the Arabian sea.build receivors onlands along the Indus and other rivers that can store storm water and reduce flooding and use the water during lean seasons. This the way forward to a better and prosporous country. Not spendinf 30 to40 peraont of your revenue on defence to defend the fountry against persieved threat from your neighbours.
What is there to prevent the Americans from doing ahat they did in North Vietnam if rhere another incident like the World Trade Centre on US soil. In that case, you will not beable to fire even one nuke, and at whom will you direct the nuke -at India, Afganistan China?
The new generation of US and Canadians of Pakistani and or Indian origin have almost no interest of both countries. The have their own lives to live and inter marry and are not concerned about their origin. So I say yes all the aid you get for the betterment of your common people and not allow the politions to line theit pockets and the establishment to purchase new toys that will be useless in 10 years and at the same tine line their pockets and every few years spend more borrowed money on upgrades
There is more to be gained if this retoric is dropped by both countrie and develop friendship and neighbourliness instead of all the anger I read in this paper.We in the west and American continent hope to see a peaceful subcontinent. May there be peace and prosperity in both countris and live like brothers as was hefore the partision.
@ishtiaer hussain:
We understand your pain, and totally agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of understanding of the issues you raise, have to come from inside Pakistan. We can only have sensible and open discussion on this forum and support you I wish there were more people like you, who are open enough and are capable of admitting that there are internal problems in Pakistan. And they need to be taken care of, rather than burying their heads in the sand.
India has never invaded any country in the world, and it never will, and Pakistan has to come to terms with that and start working on its own insecurities and start addressing the issues you raise.
@ishtiaer hussain: to Hedgefunder "But let me make it clear that if Pakistan ever disintegrates, it will have catastrophic consequences for the Indian as well as global security. " Let Pakistan do the disintegrating, trust me we and the globe can take care of ourselves. Pakistan is like a rotting sore in the neighourhood which cannot be set right any more and there is no use even trying. "So please help us in putting our country back on track." We understand your dilemma but, please try to understand ours as well! You treated a country, US, which has always been a benefactor to you, so lousily, how can one whom you designated as your mortal enemy #1 trust you? There is absolutely no one in the world today that trusts you, not even your "higher-than-the-Himalayas" friend. It has always uttered encouraging words to you and now you have even betrayed it, too. Precisely, what kind of a people does all that to everyone it comes into contact with!
@ishtiaer hussain: The world and india is well aware of the fact, as is all the immediate neighbours that matter!!! Nothing new you are telling me !! Ir is up to Pakistan, to show and attempt to change the current scenario, before anyone with any sincerity will even consider assistance !!! there are too many issues to be dealt with, wher does one start?? I would start with Ghairat nonsense and acknowledging the facts as to the problems !! Then a simple task od transparency in terms of Governance and taxation too, Army back in barracks and some very serious input in normal education, get rid of those Madrassas, and at same time out clergy back in Mosque, where they belong!! Then consider inviting international investors to invest with view to develop serious infrastructure and develop and train workforce!! Well i can keep going on, however i really do not believe that Pakistan and its people will accept even 10% of the proposals ! hence, i nptice that the educated people with any ability willing to leave the country for better pastures elsewhere !!!
@EMP_Pulse: Everyone under age of 40 needs to be re-educated in Modern History, due to selective education they have received !!
Chill out guys. It is only an up upgrade that is at times necessary for any country to make their investment in those otherwise obsolete flying machines. Otherwise the competitive edge is compromised. It is as simple as that.
@Hedgefunder:
While you can afford to watch as spectator from outside the ring, i am engulfed with the worries as my country is collapsing with each passing day. Despite having dual masters degrees in business administration and in economics, i am unemployed for the last three and half years. That is enough to tell you about the sorry state of our economy.
But let me make it clear that if Pakistan ever disintegrates, it will have catastrophic consequences for the Indian as well as global security. No need to explain this logic. So please help us in putting our country back on track. Your help may come in the form of encouraging words. I have read many indians saying bad things about Pakistan. That is not going to help us in any way. After all, we are neighbour and should help each others. Our security, properity and our future are inevitably shared and intertwined.
@AK: I notice your Indian Phobia, however why are you here?? Have you got any input to contribute the actual article concerned?????
@Adnan: You don't need these expensive toys for show, as you obviously lack the ability to maintain them, and will always require Yanks to service them, but the cherry on this cake is the Spares!! If relations with US turns sour, than say goodbye to spares too!!! Ask Iranian Airforce as to what happened to them after revolution !!!
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Doc. you are more interested in web forum than your medical profession in saudi arabia. oops south africa. Are you a spin doc? Don't twist the facts.
These upgrade kits have modified software that reports on payload weight etc. So, the moment you mount anything heavier that a standard wing launched armament, Uncle Sam will know. There goes your ability to deliver an airborne atomic devise.
@Muhammad Mustafa Mustaan: Just as you trusted your radar detection systems when Uncle Sam came to pay visit on OBL !!
@omar: " ... u said india showed no aggression for last 60 yuears. what happened in1965?u attacked lahore. in 2008 mumbai attacks, UR INDIA increased its troops towards pakistan. get ur facts right. ... "
Omar bhai, please see one of the recent episodes of Aspas Ki Baat - where Najam Sethi has spoken about many of the "conspiracy theories" about wars with India.
To your point, I agree India breached the international boundary at Lahore. This happened because Pakistan sent forces across the line of control between Indian and Pakistani Kashmir BEFORE the Lahore incursion took place. Did you expect the war to remain localized to the Kashmir region ?
@Trulie: Yes provide this security to the people of Karachi first, as i am sure they really need to get back to running their businesses and lives too!! After all it Pakistan's only commercial Hub and major Port too!!
@Amjad: Well at least they did'nt get a thief to steal it for them !!!!
To do what..sit in a hangar while the drone continue to invade our country...this is a joke...
@Manoj: u said india showed no aggression for last 60 yuears. what happened in1965?u attacked lahore. in 2008 mumbai attacks, UR INDIA increased its troops towards pakistan. get ur facts right. islam zindbaad pakistan paindabad
What if these softwares are designed in a manner to not be able of detecting IAF aircrafts? How can you trust them?
@ishtiaer hussain: Ever thought, that the second round of surgery may not be available, due to the current relations with Uncle Sam and also due to lack of Healthcare Insurance !!! ( not meeting IMF Criteria ). Well, as i said let's wait and watch, where this sickly patient is in few years time!!!
Oh for God's sake, is there a single sane minded political force in Pakistan to condemn extravagant expenses being done in the name of fortifying our borders against enemy's aggression. This country does not need JF 17 or F 16, all we need is to turn the wheel of economy to create jobs, provide health and education and spend money to restore law and order by overhauling police with new hiring, training and equipment.
Great. This is a good thing. For Pakistan, security is number one. With security comes the well being of the people otherwise the enemy country or countries can take advantage and throw terrorist and their handlers into Pakistan. When there is security, business and education can flourish and people can earn their livelihood as a normal course of business without any fear. Lets welcome and appreciate this! God Bless.
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@Wupuu: @Hedgefunder: @asif: Asif, good stuff. If only he had read the article it might have dawned on him that this was, in fact, an upgrade of the existing F-16 inventory- Pakistan had already received 'spanking new aircraft' in June 2010. But he is too busy shouting his shrill anti-Pakistan rhetoric to bother with the facts. Bitter and twisted indeed, to the point of being laughable- much like the accident record of his native IAF:
http://www.hindustanglobe.com/?p=30
Amazing, the panic that is created in the Indian camp with just 10 F-16 upgrade kits!
PAF rules the skies but if you ask me, we need never bother putting the F-16s in the air because India's planes keep falling out of the skies anyway!
Read what the Hindustan Globe has to say about the shambolic IAF and its laughable accident record:
http://www.hindustanglobe.com/?p=30
@Moise: Pakistan was given the money by the US as aid and than paid for the planes, Pak has no money
Based on some research, I can successfully conclude that Indians love to visit Pakistani news websites more than Pakistanis love Bollywood.
All the news articles from inside or outside of Pakistan I have read so far say, if Pakistan spends too much on weapons, its economy may collapse and then Pakistan itself may collapse. and if Pakistan collapses it could be disastrous for not just for its own people but for the entire world.
I wonder what good has Pakistan's 'not collapsing' done to either world or Pakistan's own people so far? Who knows, if Pakistan collapses, world might have some chance of peace? Pakistan points gun to its own head to blackmail world, but then uses the other free hand against the same world! Let it pull the trigger at once. Lets see what happens.
Come on Pakistan, buy more weapons. Let there be peace.
The higher the technology the more sophisticated the maintenance --- like the P3C Orion they become so advanced that they are worthless without constant American maintenance (and when you ask for American force reductions who do you think they send home first?).
@Hedgefunder:
Unfortunately you are right, sir. Some of our right-wingers and generals are so ambitious that they are dreaming to rule the world as the sole super-power (with a 170 billion dollars economy growing limpingly at 2 percents and which has been admitted in the Intesnsive Care Unit of the IMF for the last three and half years waiting for a second round of surgery)
@Wupuu: You need to check the defination of word "Responsible" first ! Then i suggest, check the history over past 60 odd years and enlighten me as to where word responsible is related to the actions and acts commited !!!!
@asif: Ofcourse it will be there, but the Billion Dollar question is in what form, shape or size!!!!! Don't worry i am not barking up at your precious tree!!! Also while you are at it, there nothing obnoxious about my language, it states the facts as they stand!!!!
Nothing significant comes out of $40m in the context of one aircraft amd much less 10!!
@Manoj: @Hedgefunder: Pakistan is a peaceful country and has no ulterior designs compared to India. Pakistan has its own problem. Having said this, Pakistan want to achieve maximum capability for defence and keep its enemy especially India at arms distance which it successfully did during these 64 years. However, India did managed to stab at the back of Pakistan and interfeed with Military intervention during East Pakistan which is now a Bangladesh. This was due to distance otherwise Pakistan has full capability to reply and fight tooth and nail.
Even though it is out of context, my indian blogger friends would like to read the following piece of write-up which will show the behaviour of Indians. When Neruda smiled at Nehru http://epaper.dawn.com/ArticleText.aspx?article=04082011007007
Best Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - South Africa.
Apart from the issue of waste and a distorted sense of priorities, the aircraft being up-dated are old so what's the big deal. Sure the J-17 has superior avionics and armaments because it is state-of-the-art. These old models are not.
I believe even our old C-130's have been up-graded with at least a modern glass cockpit.
@asif: on Hedgefunder
By the way you answered going to proves that you didn't have the capacity to understand statements. If you can't digest arguments, just skip it man, don't ever come to any blogs and follow your own advice - Constructive use of your time (Understanding meanings of the statements, may be) :)
@ishtiaer hussain: Nothing makes sense, when it concerns Pakistan!! I and rest of the world see the point you raised, however does the Elite in Pakistan have ability to grasp the serious state of affairs in the country at present?? Sadly the answer is NO ! As they all tend to be great believer in their short termism !!!!! No one cares, where the Country may be heading or will be in next decade!!!
@Hedgefunder
@Hedgefunder: Wooo hoo...What a fire in Indians here in Pakistani mask .. :D
Dont Worry about it, Where ever Pakistan will be, we know it will be in good position Insha Allah...
We are a responsible nation, and we have proved it to our neighbourhood and to the world ;) doesnt mean that currently we are going thorough some crises so we can never cope ....we can cope and will come out from these crises.....and then you'll see...where we will be in few years ;)
Pakistan Zindabad!
@Hedgefunder ..The real question is, where will Pakistan be in 10 years time??.. It will still be here and you will still be the bitter old man writing spiteful comments on online pages of its newspapers. I hope you find constructive use of your time instead of stringing obnoxious words together. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Let's openly accept that we can't compete India as far as purchasing new sophisticated military hardware is concerned. Indian economy is growing at almost 10 percent as compared to our's limping at barely 2 percents. In absolute terms, the size of the Indian economy is almost 1 trillion (1000 billion dollars) dollars as compared to ours at 170 billion dollars. They can afford to buy those hi-tech toys. We should rather invest our meagre resources in deterrence only. If we embark on an arms race with India, it will leave our country in a tail-spin just like a falling jet and we would soon bankrupt. It defies my logic how a country which is about to apply for multi-billion dollars loan progamme with IMF for the second time in less than three years can splurge such gigantic amounts on war toys.
@Hedgefunder: It will be InshaAllah..
But who will provide the security to these F16? Should not hire people with this precious thing?
pakistan- Beware - US is taking you to bleachers with these kits. the upgrade kit is coming with kill switch for the nuclear bums.
Hope that it will increase more strength in our security. Hope it will not destroy in other terrorist attack.
@Fahad Raza: The real question is, where will Pakistan be in 10 years time?? I think one should really evaluate its position in next 5 years, let alone 10 yrs !!!!
We are dying of hunger and our "smart military types" are throwing cash to buy war-toys. No amount of external fortification of the country can save it if it is internally hollow. Thousands of nuclear warheads and hydrogen bombs could not save USSR when it went bankrupt economically and morally. Nations are built by the aspirations of common men and nations are developed, sustained and defended by common men rather than by sophisticated toys.
@ashok sai: I did mention, that doc here, is well travelled !!!
@pkr1: Have you ever thought having your house doors without lock. When you go to work you must think of leaving your family at home without closing the doors.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi:
Johannesburg – Saudi Arabia -> This is as good as your comment, both are hilarious.
facepalm I can appreciate the need to keep your armed forces fighting fit...but surely the existentialist threats we face right now are the armed insurgency in the tribal areas, the disgruntled and abused masses in Baluchistan, the significant ethnic divide and its violent fall-out in Karachi, an ever so ailing economy and lastly the Americans packing up and leaving Afghanistan after a decade of an ill-advised war. I might be wrong but my understanding is that neither of the aforementioned belligerents actually sport an Airforce..and as for India, the Nuclear Deterrence coupled with our unpredictability, should suffice - a little like how Western Europe did not get managed to be over-run by the superior conventional forces of the Soviets.
Come on...surely that $43 mil and the preceding billion could have been better used elsewhere...perhaps..I dunno, the energy sector whose abysmal condition has managed to cause whole textile establishments to shift their operations out of the country.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: yes, and next time you decide on your adventurism in the region, it may get out of control and complete demise of the Country too in the process!!!! Not very smart thinking Doc!!! Come on, we know you could have done better than this !
Will our Fojies also understand, that we do not have money to pay for these things? One thing which does not comes properly in my comprehension ability is that whether security means competing with India in arms race or keeping minimum arms to avoid wars? I remember we do have a nuclear bomb, to avoid the war. then why millions to be spend on toys which cannot save us from drones and insult drones.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi:
For the last 60 years Pakistan is keeping itself ready for any agression from it's eastern neighbour. But that never happened.
still you want to be ready and spend hard earned money of tax payer on matching defence capability with India. Go ahead. God bless you.
In about 10 years time these F16s will need replacements
PNS Mehran will host these upgrades and will be blown up by their "assets".
For the last two weeks, Pakistanis were congratulating themselves for no aid from American. What changed their minds suddenly? They sure have a four seasons in a day mentally.
@Dr. Saleem Siddiqi:
since when Johannesburg is in Saudi Arabia? Dr. Sahab :)
This is excellent news. Pakistan needs to upgrade these F-16 and keep them ready just in case we need for any aggression from our neighbouring country....
Regards
Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Johannesburg - Saudi Arabia
take financial aid....give them back in the name of upgrades..and in this cycle you sell yourself, while they keep their money returning to them!! good strategy!
F-16 is significant as long as Pakistan acquires FC-20(J-10B) fighter jets. Though Paki pilots like F-16s, these jets are not as significant as they used to be 10/15 years before. The JF-17 factor also plays a role in their insignificance as F-16s don't have BVR while JF-17s do have BVR capability.
I think Pakistan Airforce should lodge official protest, at this treatment!!!!! What, only getting upgrade kits!! Not spanking new Aircraft from Uncle Sam!!!!! Terrible, of these partners in our war on terror to just upgrade the old equipment, rather than handing over brand new planes!!!! Very sad, perhaps its time to Sulk too!!! Perhaps its time to turn to the new all weather friend, with begging bowl for assistance too!!!
Wait and see US run with Pakistani money again .
congratulations