World

India only set to discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir: diplomat

High commissioner TCA Raghavan made the remarks about the disputed territory during a lecture in Islamabad

Afp December 14, 2015

T.C.A. Raghavan. PHOTO: FILE

ISLAMABAD: India's representative to Pakistan said on Monday his country was only prepared to discuss the part of Kashmir controlled by Islamabad in upcoming peace talks, presenting a potential stumbling block days after the dialogue was announced.

High commissioner TCA Raghavan made the remarks about the disputed territory during a lecture in the capital, after a breakthrough visit by India's foreign minister Sushma Swaraj at which the resumption of ministerial talks was announced.

According to a joint statement, the two sides will talk about peace and security as well as territorial disputes including Kashmir. Each country occupies part of the territory but claims it in full.

‘Secret diplomacy’ on the cards for Kashmir

Asked where the room for negotiation lay over the Himalayan territory, Raghavan said it was India which first petitioned the United Nations to intervene when the-then princely state of Jammu and Kashmir was invaded by Pakistani forces in 1947.

"The first application was moved by India and it was on the grounds that a part of the state, which had acceded to India, is now under the illegal occupation.

Sushma Swaraj briefs Indian lawmakers on Pakistan visit

"So when you say what is it that India is going to discuss or what is it discussing, it is really, if you ask most Indians, and what is our position - it is the part of that state which is still under the control of Pakistan."

The remarks could create a diplomatic wrinkle for the two countries as they seek to go back to the negotiation table to undertake broad-spectrum talks for the first time since the election of prime ministers Narendra Modi and Nawaz Sharif.

Badar Alam, editor of Herald magazine, said: "I think it is a step back," adding that Kashmir was viewed internationally as a disputed territory.

Pakistan, India NSAs discuss LoC, Kashmir issue in Bangkok

He added that given the fragile state of the dialogue, officials on both sides needed to tread "very cautiously and very carefully" to avoid a backlash.

New Delhi suspended all talks after gunmen attacked Mumbai in November 2008, killing 166 people.

The countries agreed to resume the peace process in 2011 but tensions have spiked over the past two years, with cross-border shelling over the disputed border in Kashmir claiming dozens of lives since 2014.

A brief meeting between premier Nawaz and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the UN climate change summit in Paris on November 30, followed by talks between the two countries' national security advisers in Bangkok, appeared to have broken the ice.

COMMENTS (47)

Someone | 8 years ago | Reply @Vectra, John B: You can come up with any fictional narrative you want, but it won't change the facts. The ground reality is that it is IoK that is disputed, not PoK and that has been the case for 67 years. Whenever the international media talks about Kashmir dispute, we all know it is about the Indian occupied Kashmir. Everyone knows that, including you. It is always the Indians who get the flak when the K word is mentioned - go figure. Regarding the Instrument of Accession, it was a null and void (illegal) document which has no basis. In fact, the original document is not even available. If we assume it was signed, India had no moral reason to occupy Kashmir since it was against the wishes of the Kashmiris, and not in accordance with the Radcliffe Line treaty where all provinces were to be divided according to their geography and Muslim populations. After 67 years, nothing has changed and the world doesn't recognise Jammu and Kashmir as a territory of India - how about begin with that. India's stance doesn't matter since we have the international point of view, and anyway, Pakistan never has and never will recognise Kashmir with India. After a century, Indian occupied Kashmir will most likely be jointly administered between Pakistan and India, where India will probably deal with the state constitutionally whereas Pakistan will be responsible for IoK's defence, foreign relations, administration etc. Indian occupied Kashmir is a mess whereas Azad Kashmir is peaceful and developing. No UN resolution or international instrument legally refers to Kashmir as part of India. Just because you Indians keep your head under the sand and deny that doesn't change the ground realities.

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply @Bewildered: "Your rebuttal is not only funny, but an outright insult to the intellects of every rational and knowledgeable person on this planet." Thats your take not mine.I have stated only facts,cheers.Btw Insult??? How?? Explain

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Bewildered | 8 years ago | Reply @Vectra: "Sorry my friend but what you are saying may look good to many..." Your rebuttal is not only funny, but an outright insult to the intellects of every rational and knowledgeable person on this planet.

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply @Bewildered: Sorry my friend but what you are saying may look good to many or lets say entire pakistanis who may say Instrument of Accession is void,null etc etc but the world doesn't look in that prism.Instrument of Accession is a legal document accepted by all which many nations have which they call it in different names. "Further, no IoA was signed by the states of Hyderabad Deccan, Bhopal, and Goa, but still India occupied these legal states" This is because after division of United-India all those states you mentioned fell under the Indian Jurisdiction as per Indian Independence Act 1947 and some of people may wish stars like we want to join pakistan,US ,Europe etc etc but they have no option of choosing the state except India. "What about the IoA signed by the ruler of Junagadh in favor of Pakistan?" That was not signed only verbally stated by the then so called ruler of Junagadh.Those arguments by pakistan have no merit after 1947 as they runs against the principles of Indian Independence Act 1947.If that argument by pakistan is taken into account then even Baluchistan stands to be an independent territory.

sabi | 8 years ago | Reply @Np: First I dint talk about general infrastructure but domestic infrastructure for energy supplies. You knowledge about cpec is very poor based on Pakistani media which believes in maligning democracy in the eyes of general public.(old habits dont change overnight) .I have in person seen many China oriented projects in Pakistan believe me I have not seen any Chinese labourer but only local workers that also include sub contractors.I must give credit to Pakistani officials for striking a smart deal with China where Pakistan has very little fund sharing.Reason is China has more stakes in cpec.18% interest is ridiculous how would you believe it. Wait and see till the dust settles and true picture emerges.I would recommend you to watch programme Mahaz on cpec by wajahit s khan on youtube. Regards.

Last Word | 8 years ago | Reply India has outsmarted Pakistan on talks two times in a row. At Ufa meet, India ensured that there was no mention of Kashmir and talks were restricted to terrorism only. During recent agreement on talks even though Kashmir was included but India will talk only on Pakistan occupied Kashmir which left Pakistanis fuming both times. It has been proved beyond any doubt that Pakistan cannot beat India in any war, Cricket World Cup and even on talks issue.

Faruk chowhdry | 8 years ago | Reply @John B: Ok If India wants to discuss its fine,we will have referendum in Pakistani Kashmir ,with India or with Pakistan! Let's see the results? After that we will have referendum in Indian Kashmir with Pakistan or India let's see the results? Who has the balls to do that? Sir its the people of Kashmir its their wish. You are nobody to decide. Claiming Kashmir by India or Pakistan is not solution, any dum person will understand, let Kashmiries decide.

Np | 8 years ago | Reply @sabi: No assumptions necessary. Google is your friend. Check per capita energy consumption between India and Pakistan. Speaking of infrastructure - which country has a better railway infrastructure, civil aviation infrastructure, digital infrastructure, medical infrastructure and professional education infrastructure? CPEC gives warm water access to China. Check the map. You will realize it will not be used by China for importing energy from Central Asian countries. Pakistan is paying an interest rate of 18% in dollar terms for Chinese investment plus labour will be Chinese not Pakistani.Compare that to 0.1% interest India is paying Japan for the $15 billion loan for bullet train, plus labour will be Indian creating jobs in India. Why do you think India would be interested in this high cost project? India is building infrastructure connecting Burma, Bangladesh, Infia and Nepal connecting it to Thailsbd and hence Asia Pacific.

Bewildered | 8 years ago | Reply @Vectra: You seem to be put too much emphasis on Instrument of Accession. First of all, never ever the Instrumentation of Accession in original was produced by India and presented to any international forum. Second, even if we assume there was really an IoA, then it has been rendered null & void by India by violating its basic condition by dethroning Maharaja of J&K. Further, no IoA was signed by the states of Hyderabad Deccan, Bhopal, and Goa, but still India occupied these legal states. What about the IoA signed by the ruler of Junagadh in favor of Pakistan?

SEAsian | 8 years ago | Reply Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir is a disputed territory. Of course India will discus that first. After that is settled, we can talk about Sir Creek.

nn | 8 years ago | Reply @Rasool: Pakistanis also have blood relations with Indian Muslims in New Delhi, so you think you can lay a claim to New Delhi? Partition of a country on the basis of religion happened once. It is not going to happen again.

sabi | 8 years ago | Reply @PUKUDENGUTHA: Strange that country like Pakistan ,six to seven times smaller,is building at least three energy corridors yours is none.What does it proves,that there is not big demand at home.Knowing that India is not oil producing country why dont we assume that vast majority of India has no access to utilities such as gas or electricity which further implies absence of domestic infrastructure.What would we do with energy corridor if we dont have domestic infrastructure is the question bothering your leadership.Sea corridor with Iran is nothing but an issue for public consumption.I wonder why your public is not asking for one or is it too naive to be happy with lolly pops like the one I have mentioned above.

It's (still) Economy Stupid | 8 years ago | Reply @Rasool: Let's rephrase it: Bangladesh has occupied a territory with Muslims majority. They have blood relations with Pakistanis. Bangladesh aggression has divided people who have relations with Pakistanis. Can you say this loudly or do you have double standards when it comes to India?

Salman | 8 years ago | Reply Indians are far more stupid than I thought. They think they'll keep torturing Kashmir and except A sad Kashmir to dance to their tunes. Looks like end of India is near. Midi can order 3 days of slaughter in Gujarat but he will be slaughtered along sharifs if he cast an eye on Kashmir. Park army has always been right about Hindu intentions.They will never change. Time to put a plug on tapi project and send sherifs to their Hindu fathers

Ik Pakistani | 8 years ago | Reply Musharraf's four point formula for kashmir is the only way to solve Kashmir dispute,it is acceptable for both countries and I think there will be no sense of defeat for both parties if they act upon it..

abdul Khan | 8 years ago | Reply Pakistan should give up Azad Kashmir. It is taxing Pakistan so much and military spending is disproportionate. You may win Kashmir but keep the poor people poor another 50 years.Choice is yours.

Mirza A | 8 years ago | Reply Indian government has no intention to solve any issue including core issue between two countries, ie, status of Jammu and Kashmir. One sided Pakistani push for peace negotiations / dialogue is a waste of time. Policy makers on Pakistan side must understand this fact as soon as possible.

Ik Pakistani | 8 years ago | Reply The solution of Kashmir issue based only on Musharraf's four point formula,which is acceptable for both countries and I think there is no sense of defeat for both if they act upon it....

G. Din | 8 years ago | Reply @Lunch Box: "@sabi Is this man sane? Who has given him the mandate to set the agenda of talks unilaterally, on his own? Why is he trying to act clever?" Trust me he is perfectly sane. He is not setting the agenda unilaterally , only informing you of the agenda someone has set in Delhi. Our diplomats are part of a disciplined force called Indian Foreign Service. They are not loose cannons like yours. "@Vectra: Just wait till cpec is functional and China economy blossoms by virtue of Pakistan and vice versa.India will beg for participation.Just wait and see." Oh, there is no accounting for Islamic naivete. A Muslim always thinks he can outsmart everyone else while he keeps delving in delusion. Have you considered the scenario when part of CPEC passing through Kashmir will, Inshallah, be under the control of India? All China would be interested in is that it has free access and facility to use it. For a charge, India will be glad to oblige. It (not Pakistan) owns it and has absolute right to make its decision concerning it.

TrueIndian | 8 years ago | Reply @Pakistani: Whether there is a peace in AJK or Kashmiris wants to separate is an issue is between India and AJK. Pakistan needs to vacate PoK as JK was acceeded to India.. Period then we can talk about business & cricket.

G. Din | 8 years ago | Reply @sabi: "@Vectra: Just wait till cpec is functional and China economy blossoms by virtue of Pakistan and vice versa.India will beg for participation.Just wait and see." Oh, there is no accounting for Islamic naivete. A Muslim always thinks he can outsmart everyone else while he keeps delving in delusion. Have you considered the scenario when part of CPEC passing through Kashmir will, Inshallah, be under the control of India? All China would be interested in is that it has free access and facility to use it. For a charge, India will be glad to oblige. It (not Pakistan) owns it and has absolute right to make its decision concerning it.

Azi | 8 years ago | Reply You know the obsession when on a Pakistani website comments are from more Indian members than Pakistani. I however knew from the very start, the visits and newly started wheel of talks were all but a drama. Hence, didnt feel the need to celebrate a new beginning. Let them keep crying about "PoK" where people are much calmer compared to the neighboring IoK where clashes and uprisings are a daily phenomena.

PUKUDENGUTHA | 8 years ago | Reply @sabi: That project costs hardly 10Bn$, your holding of $ is less than 30Bn, and your external debt is 70Bn$. India has youth of military service age six times larger than the entire population of Pakistan. Our GDP is eight times larger with nearing double digit growth. We have developed capability to counter missiles. Ready for your full spectrum threat, and NOT SCARED.

Pakistani | 8 years ago | Reply I don't understand what India wants to discuss about AJK and GB. May be they want to know why there is so much peace in these regions unlike Indian occupied Kashmir where there are curfews, encounters and protests every other day. I think being a good neighbor Pakistan should share the secret of peace in Azad Kashmir. The secret is that people of Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan are happy with Pakistan which isn't the case for India when it comes to Indian occupied Kashmir. Give IOK freedom and it would be as peaceful as AJK.

Lunch Box | 8 years ago | Reply Is this man sane? Who has given him the mandate to set the agenda of talks unilaterally, on his own? Why is he trying to act clever?

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply @sabi: "India will beg for participation.Just wait and see." So is pakistan and China to use India developed all whether highways connecting Iran-Afghanistan as North South Corridor to Central Asia.

auginpk | 8 years ago | Reply The Pakistan's intelligentsia and people should wake up to ground realities like what actually happened in 1947-48 in J & K. What happened in 1965 before India crossed international border. How 1/3 of J & K came into possession of Pakistan and India respectively. What issues and resolutions were brought out in United Nations. Simple rhetoric regarding waving of flags will not change attitudes of the governments. Educating people about whole of Kashmir issue and what had actually happened after 14/ 15 August 1947 will enlighten them.

Khalid Saeed | 8 years ago | Reply Hardliners such as Raghavan are stumbling blocks for achieving peace and prosperity in the region. Hope Indian think tank have different view on solving all outstanding issues including Kashmir.

Sameer | 8 years ago | Reply From past few days many Pakistanis jumping on that India is ready to discuss on Kashmir....like it's an achievement for them..... Do you think discussing Kashmir is your achievement? I think we have been discussing Kashmir from past 67 years….so keep in mind one thing that till the time if India’s concern are not addressed, you can keep on discussing Kashmir for decades

sabi | 8 years ago | Reply @Vectra: Just wait till cpec is functional and China economy blossoms by virtue of Pakistan and vice versa.India will beg for participation.Just wait and see.

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply I have seen some Indians here commenting that let India keep its part and pakistan keep its part of Kashmir.I caution them that when you comment then based on logic and facts only and not on emotions.I explain why the above can't happen.It is due to the absence of or lack of original Instrument of Accession (IOA) with Pakistan but which is in possession of India.As per the IOA the entire J&K is Indian territory and making any compromise like for example what some of you guys wants like said above i.e allowing pakistan to keep POK means diluting the original IOA in possession of India.That will never be allowed neither by GOI nor will be accepted by the people of India.So in that sense India can never give POK to pakistan as IOA is legal document recognized worldwide. The second things is for pakistan and its commentators.Do the pakistani commentators ever realize as to why the world don't support them of Kashmir issue??The reason may be various like economy,diplomacy etc etc but also one of the reason that includes the worlds own interest.Many nations in this world especially the European nations in this world are filled with similar Instrument of Accession (IOA) like treaties and legal documents of their own which they probably signed hundreds and thousands of years ago and on the basis of which the they have the present territory which we all see today.So not supporting India on its IOA means challenging their own similar IOA like treaties if any they have thus compromising their own interests.Therefore without original IOA technically Pakistan is not a owner of POK.

Smiling Buddha | 8 years ago | Reply I love Mr.Modi and administration ......What a leader India got

Chacha Jee | 8 years ago | Reply Kashmir is not issue. The underlying cause is hindu muslim tension. Only that part of kashmir is an issue where muslim live. Pakistan is still struck in 1947. I was taught since kindergarten that pakistan was created for indian muslim. Now we find more muslim in india than in pakistan. Muslim in 1947 said that they could not live with hindus in india and wanted a separate country. What has changed now. Those muslim who feel uncomfortable in india should be allowed to migrate to pakistan as many hindus are migrating from pakistan. Nothing wrong.. migration are happening. This will bring peace.. Kashmir is problem to day because hindu pundits did retaliate corrospondinly. If they had responded once with retaliatory violence their would have no kashmir issue. But that is not case in india. Let pakistan take kashmir issue to security council on two nation theory that being muslim they can not live other communities. All five permanent members of security council in uno has muslim problem similar to india. China, France, UK, Russia and America.

Wajahat | 8 years ago | Reply @Vectra: Stop living in fool man's Paradise.

amar | 8 years ago | Reply What else do you expect? India will discuss POK and Pakistan will discuss IOK

Sandip | 8 years ago | Reply @Rasool: Please go and do some reading of "real" history as to the terms of partition of India. And then come and discuss.

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply Kashmir was not a disputed territory only POK is.

Vectra | 8 years ago | Reply Well there is nothing new in it because Indian's knew it from beginning.Everyone knows that it is India's stated position that J&K is NOT a disputed territory but only POK is disputed and any talk on Kashmir will be on POK only.BTW what did pakistan thought that India will discuss entire Kashmir???.It should be clear that when India say Kashmir it means POK only.

Someone | 8 years ago | Reply This is what you call living in fool's paradise.

Indian Dude | 8 years ago | Reply Moderation is the need of the hour. We should not be obsessed about PoK. Pakistan needs to address cross border terrorism.

John B | 8 years ago | Reply Finally, it is time for pak media to understand what is being discussed. What is under discussion and has always been under discussion is the status of POK to which india has full claim as per the international law and bill of pak creation and independence of India. Since it is nearly impossible to institute the UN resolution based referendum as touted by pak since the demography in PoK has changed, among other things, the issue under discussion is how to amicably administer the POK and who is going to control the finance and security of PoK and so on. It is very likely, the domestic security on POK will be jointly administered by India -PAK (PoK) forces, finance by india, and joint sharing of resources and PoK even becoming a separate state under India Union and GB likley under PAK. I am glad that finally someone clearly spoke what is under discussion. I am sure pak public will be crying but it is pak which has been misleading her citizens. "Kashmir for muslims" cry promoted in pak is going to come to haunt pak but that is a problem pak has to deal with. Imagining that India would be discussing the J&K with pak is delusional. If anyone disagrees on the India position, then we all might as well tear up the world map that emerged after WWII.

Usman | 8 years ago | Reply Diplomatic wrinkle, stumbling block. etc.etc., Sushma's visit was as much a break through as was India's first fighter jet, both, non-existent. She only visited Pakistan to make sure India's stake in Afghanistan is not harmed, and that's it. Media hype turned it into something else. . This diplomat's words don't mean anything. Neither will talks happen any time in the near future.

Appan | 8 years ago | Reply Well. Pakistan wants to discuss K Issue and India is ready to discuss PoK. Matter settled!! Let peace prevail

Khan | 8 years ago | Reply if true, it will show the whole world which side is the problem. Usa and UK were pushing for talks so let's see if india disappoints. Also, let's see the pakistani response. If it is quiet, then india quietly reassured pakistan that all of kashmir is on the cards. Besides, the ambassador only said that as an off the cuff remark. The kashmir negotiations will also be done in secret.

Burhan Khan | 8 years ago | Reply Nothing surprising here, Pakistan just needs closure of the Kashmir issue for areas related to CPEC which will pass through Gilgit Baltistan and Azaad Kashmir. If India gives up claim on these areas officially then that is the end of this dispute.

Rasool | 8 years ago | Reply India has occupied a territory with Muslims majority. They have blood relations with Pakistanis. Indian aggression has divided people who have relations with Pakistanis.

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