Pakistan and India dialogue

Published: February 7, 2013

The writer is a barrister and human rights activist and tweets @AlizehIHaider

Congress MP Mani Shankar Aiyar has nailed it with this phrase: “Uninterrupted and uninterruptable dialogue” is, no doubt, the ‘come hell or high water’ sort of steadfast commitment required from both, Pakistan and India, if we hope to make any real progress towards a relationship of trust and friendship.

The recent Line of Control (LoC) incident, sadly, highlights the ease with which positive efforts and years of hard work towards trust-building can come tumbling down with a single incident if not tackled sensibly.

It is quite clear that this is not the first time that violations of the LoC ceasefire have taken place. A recent report in The Hindu quotes a 15-year-long list of allegations by Pakistan, of executions and beheadings in secret cross-border raids by Indian troops. Whereas minor violations by both sides have not been uncommon, never in the past have reactions been so heated and tensions escalated to this extent. One wonders, why now?

It is notable from the response of the two countries that Pakistani media, politicians and people acted with far more restraint and composure than their Indian counterparts. Whilst the Indian media let the war drums roll, the Pakistani media must be commended for refraining from warmongering and openly declaring the LoC killings as detestable and deplorable. Despite the belligerence of Indian politicians, the Pakistani foreign minister pleaded for reason to prevail and invited India to resolve the matter through diplomatic channels. Tempers seem to have calmed now and there is a softening of tone by India, but only as an afterthought. As expected, the immediate casualty of all this warmongering was the people-to-people interaction. Such a dent in years of hard work by peace activists and doves on both sides of the border and no one can still establish what really happened at the LoC.

In his article ‘The hostility industry’, published in the Indian Express, Aiyar despairs that “the mindset in Pakistan is changing — but Indian hawks still don’t get it”.

No doubt, today, Pakistan more than ever before recognises the need for peace with India and is willing to forsake the prejudices and hesitations of the past for a genuine relationship of trust and cooperation. But why is it that every time we are close to cementing positive initiatives on the governmental and people-to-people level, close at heel occur incidents timed strategically to blow it all to bits. The LoC incident reeks of mischief. We don’t yet know who was behind this ghastly act, but one thing is certain — the people responsible for this are neither friends of Pakistan nor India. They serve no one’s interest but their own and their survival is dependent upon creating anarchy within our two countries as well as at our borders. The day India and Pakistan learn to defy the urge to go for the jugular each time they are played up against each other, these elements will be out of job. Each time we throw a stone at each other, we both lose and a third party wins. Those seen gloating today at the unravelling of the fragile fabric of Pakistan-India friendship are our real common enemies.

Undoubtedly, Pakistan needs to purge itself of all non-state actors that are products of its ill-conceived political and military strategies of the past. These heinous elements have only created hell in Pakistan and are playing havoc with its foreign policy. No Hafiz Saeed should be allowed to come on Pakistani TV channels to revel in the latest controversy between India and Pakistan. What moral or political authority do heads of banned militant outfits have to speak or act on behalf of Pakistan? And why are we allowing it?

Similarly, India’s support to Baloch separatists and its strategy to keep Pakistan engaged on its Western border is no great secret. India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters and recognise that only an internally stable and strong Pakistan can be a good friend to India; and only with Pakistan and India as friends can South Asia develop to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 8th, 2013.

Reader Comments (81)

  • Sinclair
    Feb 8, 2013 - 12:08AM

    “… and only with Pakistan and India as friends can South Asia develop to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit.”

    Translation: We have a gun to our head and we are not afraid to use it. (How apt that even a suggestion of friendship from Pakistan comes with a threat!)

    Just to clear any illusions, India can single-handedly develop the entire region (reason: Baniyas). If Pakistan does not wish to participate, we will develop the rest of south asia – to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit, as you so capably put it. Pakistan will probably become atheist before it concedes India’s leadership in the region. So be it.

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  • Rahul Gandhi
    Feb 8, 2013 - 12:15AM

    awesome article. we will do exactly what you have listed. just hold your breath. we are on it.

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  • Alexander
    Feb 8, 2013 - 12:16AM

    How about returning the “beheading” act and acting with great restraint??? Was this not the same behaviour from Pakistan-that India is threatening them and war-mongering-after Kargil, Mumbai attacks and Parliament attack? Now Pakistan is openly discussing that Mumbai attacks and Kargil were started by Pakistan itself!! The right answer to your blatant lies should be – do it silently and act in great restraint! The pain of Indian revenge would be too much for Pakistan to bear. Isn’t the current international isolation not enough?

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  • Gary
    Feb 8, 2013 - 12:59AM

    “only with Pakistan and India as friends can South Asia develop to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit.” Really?

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  • kaalchakra
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:25AM

    Very well said. Indians have a long history of becoming all hostile and belligerant and hypernationalist while the media in Pakistan is mature, has always called upon both sides to not waste time in pointing fingers, in staying mired in the past, not make unilateral judgements, and so forth. I can count so many occasions. When the Indian parliament was attacked by some Indians themselves, Pakistani media did its level best to prevent pointing of fingers and emotions from running high. Just the opposite by the Indian media. When a group of Indian attacked Bombay (with some dubious claims of support from a few Pakistanis of Indian orgin) we witnessed the same thing – Pakistani industry was mature, and called upon everyone to look into the future. Kargil – the same thing happened. And now, nothing new.

    Indian media has to decide. Does it want to be friends or not?

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  • BlackJack
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:27AM

    Madam, why is it that any Indian whose opinion mirrors your own is portrayed as the voice of sanity and reason and those who differ the opposite – this unwillingness to countenance an opposing point of view is the root cause of all your troubles. Mani Shankar Aiyar is a well known Pakophile (if such a term exists) and has been asking for dialogue right from the Mumbai attacks onwards – pls understand that he does not represent the voice of the Indian people, or even a single parliamentary constituency for that matter. This new found maturity that Pak seems to have acquired would sit more easy on the stomach if you could close down those jihadi camps and keep a lid on known terrorists who apparently make more public appearances than most of your sitting politicians. Oh, and the alacrity with which you concluded that your army had no hand to play in the recent LoC flare-up – could you display some of the same speed in the investigations into the Mumbai attacks pls.

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  • John B
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:27AM

    Is any one buying this high school essay?

    PAK and India should have uninterrupted dialogue -India MP’s word not PAK’s but PAK’s words are that the UN wanted Hafeez should be kept away from TVand India support to the Baloch and at the Western border should be stop!

    PAK blamed the US, burnt Kerry’s effigy, burnt the US flag, Hosted everyone who was wanted around the world and wonders now how good Kerry will be good for PAK.

    Sincerity in PAK preaching is always missing a Vowel.

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  • Arjun
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:43AM

    No doubt, today, Pakistan more than ever before recognises the need for peace with India

    Umm…

    Pakistani Militant, Price on Head, Lives in Open

    Perhaps you’d like to comment on this piece in the New York Times..

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  • Jackson
    Feb 8, 2013 - 2:11AM

    Finally some sane voice. I also agree that Pakistani media was more quiet during the recent LOC firing, however the author also needs to understand that the ghastly beheading incident happened with indian soldiers. I wonder how pakistani media would have reacted to such news. We all know that soldiers wounded/killed in ordinary way do not make much news, it was the manner of killing that created ripples even in Singapore where I saw the news getting published in local news-papers. I pray such accidents never happen again.

    Also, regarding your point “India’s support to Baloch separatists and its strategy to keep Pakistan engaged on its Western border is no great secret’, what proof do we have for the same. Recently, I am hearing lot of such comments from our columnists, were any proofs presented to UN or any friendly countries, do we expect everyone to take us on our words of mouth. I believe we have lost that credibility some times back.

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  • Jat
    Feb 8, 2013 - 2:52AM

    Author: India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters and recognise that only an internally stable and strong Pakistan can be a good friend to India

    So are you a little naive, a little ignorant or more than a little clever ?

    Our (Indian) experience shows that whenever Pakistan feels strong, whenever it feels it has the backing of Americans, Chinese and Arabs, whenever money and arms are pouring in; it is precisely at those time Pakistan becomes the aggressor, tries all kinds of murderous mischief and absolutely refuses to listen to reason.

    And whenever Pakistan feels it is weak, or when it is on brink of collapse (as it is now), it becomes; or it acts as if it is the most innocent, most peace loving country in the whole world.

    In light of above, give me one good reason why India would want to see a stable and strong Pakistan ? We should let Pakistan, rather help Pakistan become strong so that it can launch yet another Operation Gibraltar, or Operation Topaz or Operation Kargil or Mumbai massacre ?

    Until we see very convincing evidence of permanent change of heart, and change in thinking of Pakistani establishment and Pakistani elite; we would rather keep Pakistan weak and tottering on the edge.

    Go and try to fool someone else; we have been knifed in the back by Pakistan too many times for us to take any chances.

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  • Spud
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:05AM

    This article is a typical biased one by a Pakistan under the guise of reasonableness. Pakistani media, politicians and people acted with far more restraint and composure than their Indian counterparts because they knew that Pakistan army was the culprit. Towards the end you try mildly to control the bias by asking that people like Saeed be not given prominence. This Saeed was responsible for the deaths of 190 innocent men and women and continues to spout threatening word aginst India yet Pakistan allows him to move freely. Every war India was forced to fight with pakistan since 1948 was initiated by Pakistan. In 1948 those tribals who invaded Kasmir did so at the instigation of Pakistan Army. At that time Indian Army nearly entered Pakistani territory but was stopped by Nehru and India is sufferring that lapse of Nehru some 65 years later. How can India trust Pakistan because Pakistan has lost that right by lying time and again.

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  • Jim
    Feb 8, 2013 - 5:15AM

    The mindset of some Pakistanis, mostly liberal and secular elements, is changing, but the country’s corrupted foundational philosophy and DNA remains remains the same — religious exclusivism, bigotry, territorial aspiration through aggression etc.Like you say, ‘Pakistan needs to purge itself of all non-state actors that are products of its ill-conceived political and military strategies of the past,” but aside from lip service, Pakistan does nothing. The establishment and Deep State actually protect such terrorists and criminals, which makes them complicit. You say India supports Baloch insurgency, but to date, Pakistan has not produced a shred of evidence to back this, and clearly the charges have not got any international traction. No Indian has been sanctioned by UN, nor are there are any bounties for Indians. No one in India is going around preaching jihad and canvassing for liberation of Baluchistan. There is no Baluchistan day in India. Most Indians are happy to let Pakistan fry in its own fire. So this whole theory of you be nice to us and we’ll be nice to you doesn’t fly. There is one side which has brought a lot of grief to the situation. Sadly, you may be right that the extremist elements on the other side have also been provoked by this ceaseless war by thousand cuts that your country promised. But there is no popular appetite in India for confrontation with Pakistan. We have our own war to fight — against poverty and hunger.

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  • anand singh
    Feb 8, 2013 - 5:18AM

    Good thoughts Lady, but these like so many others shall remain thoughts only. You are possibly among the few sane voices in a sea of discord. The discord is more among yourselves & less with others.

    Pak today is a nation hijacked by hardliners who will not let sanity prevail. Deny this as much as you wish to but one simply cannot see a turn around ( though one would like to see one).

    With Multi power centers whom does one deal with ? The Govt of Pak that operates from Islamabad or Pindi ? Maybe different subjects are handled from diff locations ?

    Much that one would want Pak to be a healthy & stable nation but history has it that Pak has done more damage to India when it was ‘ stable’ than unstable. Eg the ‘ stability’ Pak experienced under Zia or Mush.

    Good luck, that’s all one can say.

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  • propertywise
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:08AM

    A well written, But what happens in the last paragraph?

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  • prany
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:17AM

    Totally one sided article. The author has completely forgotten incidents like Mumbai and Kargil which were executed by Pakistani establishment at similar junctures what the author is referred to in the article. Now we know much more about both cases, who did it and how. So if you go by the track record, who is to blame? Don’t lecture India, If there were incidents of wrongdoing by Indian troops at the LOC in the past as alleged by you, what stopped Pakistan to highlight them then? As for Baluchistan, it is all humbug. Pakistan has not provided any credible evidence to anyone!!

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  • Raja
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:25AM

    “Whereas minor violations by both sides have not been uncommon, never in the past have reactions been so heated and tensions escalated to this extent.” Ms. Haider, decapitation on either side of the LoC may be a minor violation in your dialect, but for the rest of us, it is a major event that mandates strong response. Just because it was tolerated by both sides, if that’s what occurred over the years, that doesn’t make it any less despicable.

    When learned individuals like you speak of India’s engagement on your western border, we can’t expect common Pakistanis to believe otherwise. “India is Enemy Number 1″ was your doctrine until recently. So, it may take you decades to rid your mindset of hatred for Indians and everything that India stands for.

    Knowing well that stable Pakistan is good for India, but more importantly for Pakistan itself, can you name one good reason why India would instigate or support insurgency in your part of the country that continues to suffer untold misery at the hands of the Pakistani government? And, need we remind you of the long list of invasions and state sponsored terrorist acts perpetrated against India?

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  • Aarvey,india
    Feb 8, 2013 - 7:18AM

    Any analysis of Indo- Pak relations would b incomplete without Pakistan articulating openly it’s stand not just in words but in deeds against elements like Hafeez Saeed. As long as these ‘ elements’ are subtly supported by the Pakstani establishment there can be no trust. This breach of trust has been amply and openly demonstrated by Pakistan through Kargil and the mumbai attacks just two events in the recent past.

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  • pakiindi
    Feb 8, 2013 - 7:20AM

    “… India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters ……..”

    This part ruins an otherwise thoughtful and well articulated piece. India has no involvement in any internal matter of Pakistan, and India also has no “non-state actors” working against Pakistan’s interests.

    By the way, the fact that Pakistan is the only country in the whole world to have “non-state actors” is not without significance.

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  • Yoghurt lover
    Feb 8, 2013 - 7:34AM

    “It is notable from the response of the two countries that Pakistani media, politicians and people acted with far more restraint”

    Author seems to have a hard time in correlating the magnitude of various events.

    Or perhaps the author doesn’t know what is restraint.

    Or it’s possible that the author doesn’t know the history of India and Pakistan.

    Can somebody please tell her about 1965, 1971, 1999, Parliament attack, 26/11 etc.

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  • karma
    Feb 8, 2013 - 7:54AM

    Uninterrupted & Uninterruptible Dialog doesn’t work in the face of ‘uninterrupted’ and ‘uninterruptable’ terrorism stemming from Pakistan.

    A truly democratic nation will throw out a govt. that can’t protect its citizens from Foreign attacks, especially if it is seen to be doing nothing.

    Indian govt. has repeatedly shown its goodwill to Pakistan in getting back to negotiations, but, it can hardly do business as usual – if war or war like activities are done by rogues within Pakistan, and Pakistan state does nothing to punish or restrict them.

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  • Raj Kafir
    Feb 8, 2013 - 8:33AM

    @ Author: Alice in Wonderland can be described in a paragraph…………..and here it goes…..

    Similarly, India’s support to Baloch separatists and its strategy to keep Pakistan engaged on its Western border is no great secret. India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters and recognise that only an internally stable and strong Pakistan can be a good friend to India; and only with Pakistan and India as friends can South Asia develop to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit.

    PS: “Similarly”..thanks for honest confession…

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  • Gaurav
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:06AM

    You require both hands to clap. First Pakistan should stop meddling India’s internal affair including Kashmir.Recommend

  • gp65
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:47AM

    Actions speak louder than words. When Pak establishment’s actions start matching Pak politicians words of peace, you will not find India wanting until then don’t hold your breath based on assurance from Mani Shanker Iyer. India and Indians will always respond aggressively to your aggressive actions. You have underestimated Indian response repeatedly and paid a heavy price each time. 2008 was an exception mainly due to halo effect of the Musharraf years of diplomacy when there had been some genuine change in attitude in your establishment. Now your establishment is upto old tricks. Remember a fresh Kargill by Pakistan will be met with the same response as last time – not uninterruptible and uninterrupted dialog.

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  • Mirza
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:11AM

    I feel enlightened! These 5 minutes of my life that I am not going to get back.

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  • David_Smith
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:34AM

    Madam, surely Pakistan must have friends in India other than Mani Shankar Aiyar, who apparently has more followers in Pakistan than here.
    You have answered some of the difficulties in Indo-Pak relations in the penultimate para of your article. You would have, in the meanwhile, read about the speeches made on the so-called Kashmir solidarity day?
    As for Baluchistan, a mind trained as a barrister should have provided some evidence of India’s meddling. You remember the advise of the Law professor to his class?: if you have the law on your side hammer it to the judge, if you have the facts on your side hammer them to the jury. But, asked a student, what do you do when you have neither. Then, he was told, hammer on the table!

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  • Pakistani Ostrich
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:59AM

    “…It is notable from the response of the two countries that Pakistani media, politicians and people acted with far more restraint and composure..”
    That is complete rubbish and juvenile conclusion! As the author hasn’t take in to account that during the LOC incidence, the Indian media had ONLY this masala event to fill their tv-shows and newspapers. Where as the pakistani had many more spicy masala events happening such as “container rvolution” demanding care-taker set up, removal of the current parliament, then SC coming in and adding more “ghee” to the fire by announcing the arrest of an another PM!! Genocide of 100+ hazara shias..and their freezing-weather-protesting of not burying their dead! (which is the strongest non-violent way a shia can show his protest!!)
    On the other hand the pak media has the news where pakistan was accused of beheading two indian soldiers at LOC and keeping their heads as trophies!!!
    If you were a sensation seeking pak media (just like their indian counterpart)..what would print..shia genocide and their protest, container revolution imported from canada. SC out of blue ordering an arrest of a sitting PM on charge that has been pending for months!! Or pakistani state execution and beheading 2 indian soldiers at LOC against all the civilized norms and geneva convention?

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  • Prabhjyot Singh Madan
    Feb 8, 2013 - 12:26PM

    Dear author, if India is supporting the baluchistan insurgency, go to un with proofs. Please have us heavily sanctioned by them. Blacklist our establishments. Go to the world, who is stopping the government of Pakistan to do this.If the government does not have proofs then what is the point ? We don’t state openly that we want to liberate baluchistan. Think about this. Thank you

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  • Feb 8, 2013 - 12:59PM

    since my compatriots have covered most of the issue including the lack of proof regarding Balochistan and our lack of appetite for any confrontation with pakistan…I would ask the author to conduct this simple exercise.

    Ask the pakistan govt to make a request for the bodies of pakistani soldier buried in india and not claimed on the ground that they were mujahideen. You really need to worry about closure for kargil – that is the biggest issue – as big as having free and fair elections.

    Because if the primacy of the executive over the military is not made clear you will have many more adventurous generals making similar suicidal moves. Do this not out of love for India – do this out of love for your country. Why did all those soldiers have to die. I know Ayub khan did not answer for the 3000 so-called mujahideen he infiltrated during operation gibralter – do not let musharraf get away with it.
    This is the time for asking hard question of your establishment and you will watch how indo-pak relations will improve.

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  • Lion(Indian)
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:13PM

    Some days or months or years India Pakistan relations is good some times its bad this is how it will continue to be.It can’t be totally good that is true it can be totally bad(limited conflict as in kargil) but with god’s grace not a full fledged war .

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  • Indian
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:15PM

    Dear Writer ,

    A vegetable trader shouldn’t go for ship auction. I don’t know whether India interferes in Pak matter . Even if it interferes , We encourage it . If pak can interfere in J&K matter, why can’t India ? Do you think you live on meat and we on grass ?

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  • Saeed
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:23PM

    The vitriol from our indian commentators, is evidence of the mindset that prevails. Even when a hand of friendship is extended they spit on it.

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  • polwala
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:45PM

    A piece that is somewhat biased.
    Just answer one question if Pakistan desires peace with India: For India the ultimate person wanted for hate and crimes against India, the one who spews the maximum possible venom against India, the one on whom US put a ten million dollar bounty is INVITED by TV channels like ARY for one hour discussions? That shows the intellectual bankruptcy of the media planners and the opinion makers routinely dismiss this as trivial. There is little doubt that he is being hosted, protected and encouraged by some in the state.

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  • Imraan
    Feb 8, 2013 - 1:55PM

    If the author wasn’t so strikingly beautiful, I would’ve been inclined to post a vituperative comment on her juvenile analysis. Enough said! As for the deification of Mani Shankar Iyer, please come over to India if you need a handle of what Indians think about this nauseating political wannabe. Guy doesn’t manage to win any votes other than his own family’s, and I seriously doubt if it extends beyond his immediate family. The more Iyer appears on Indian TV channels spouting his supercilious and sneering analysis, the more his party loses popular ground.

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  • Parvez
    Feb 8, 2013 - 2:40PM

    Almost every comment is from an Indian and goes to show than no matter even if you try to initiate a discussion, it is met with hostility, blame game and basic negative thought…….but that does not mean we should not try.

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  • KP
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:06PM

    @kaalchakra

    You would have added Kargil too to the list but the “general” let the cat out of the bag :)

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  • evil
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:09PM

    pakis should apologize to India first , for starting all the messes. kargil , mumbai , loc.
    that’s what someone with self-respect and integrity do before seeking to initialize peace.
    because your stupidities cost us our citizen’s lives , which we value a lot , unlike you.

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  • Lion(Indian)
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:12PM

    @Imraan:
    The India Pakistan relationship was improving until the beheading on the Indian solider at LOC. Now people who talk peace(Aman Ki Asha) between India and Pakistan are keeping their mouths shut,if Secular Indian(Secular Hindu/Muslim/Christian etc) speaks for Pakistan and Pakistanis at present then he would have to face the volley of question and wrath from communal Indian.Most of the secular Indian are hiding for cover.

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  • Lion(Indian)
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:12PM

    @Imraan:
    The India Pakistan relationship was improving until the beheading on the Indian solider at LOC. Now people who talk peace(Aman Ki Asha) between India and Pakistan are keeping their mouths shut,if Secular Indian(Secular Hindu/Muslim/Christian etc) speaks for Pakistan and Pakistanis at present then he would have to face the volley of question and wrath from communal Indian.Most of the secular Indian are searching for cover to hide.

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  • Watan(Indian)
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:14PM

    At present its a taboo to speak about Aman Ki Asha after the incidents that took place at Indian side LOC.

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  • BRUISED INDIAN
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:20PM

    AUTHOR:
    Similarly, India’s support to Baloch separatists and its strategy to keep Pakistan engaged on its Western border is no great secret. India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters and recognise that only an internally stable and strong Pakistan can be a good friend to India;

    PROVE IT! Just prove India’s involvement in Balochistan. You prove this right here on this forum. Dont tow the ‘rag tag intellectually bankrupt Pakistani journalist / talk show host’ mindset; foot in the mouth seems to be ruling the roost in your country, atleast substantiate your claims, please!!
    As far as Mani Shankar Aiyar is concerned, he’s a wannabe!

    @Parvez: Its not hostility or negative thought, its simply a case of ‘Suna hai ki India ne yeh kar dia woh kar dia’… like I mentioned above to the author, PROVE IT! And if you dont then all Indians commenting here do have a right to take umbrage to his extremely biased article.

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  • BRUISED INDIAN
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:26PM

    Call yourself a barrister? Jeez! No wonder your legal system is in the dumps. A wise old man once told me, lawyers are the biggest motor mouths on the face of the earth. They spew vitriol all the time due to the humble pie they are made to eat!!

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  • Cosmo
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:55PM

    @kaalchakra:
    U r a waste to this humanity, please dont think or utter!

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  • Shakib
    Feb 8, 2013 - 4:56PM

    And they lived happily ever after

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  • Aarvey,india
    Feb 8, 2013 - 5:05PM

    @Parvez:
    Past experience with Pakistan has not been exactly lovey dovey, remember Kargil and Mumbai? Both are examples of extreme treachery. Tell us how it cannot be met with anything but hostility and mistrust. If your government made some concrete attempts to punish the mumbai supects maybe things would have been better. But your establishment will not allow it.

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  • varuag
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:07PM

    Lawyers have a tendency to win the case and relatively gullible people may be persuaded by their disingenuous tricks but to the informed, it reeks of malevolence.
    Aiyar and the Hindu as references are always going to raise questions since they have a professed ideological tilt. Their opinions are crucial, but to be frank, they are on the fringe end of a spectrum and just as you would rightfully avoid opinions from the right fringe, you would be better advised to avoid left fringe. Take both the fringes or avoid either one and represent the centrist paradigm, of which there is no dearth.
    Regarding the outrage industry of the media, most Indians are aware of it. Devoid of any regulator, the electronic media leaves no stone unturned in making mountains out of molehills for all sorts of issues. It has the tenacity to track kids who have fallen in wells all day long as well as take on the government head-on, as in the case of the Anna Hazare agitation. It is an unhinged animal in its own right and does what it feels like and despite its shenanigans, its freedom is much cherished. It will be a dark day when government starts arm twisting the media. Media’s freedom should be celebrated and the occasional jingoism that peters from the idiot box is tempered by the blood curdling statistics of deprivation that are also on telecast regularly. What most from the other side fail to notice is that there is genuine disappointment at the major issues of the recent past (1999,2002,2008) and suggesting a TV ban on the likes of Hafiz is not going to fix that. He has a right to speak and ultimately it reflects on the quality of the TV studio and not on him, for his outlook is well known. The issue is not to silence him but to prosecute him and since that is not on the horizon, it will remain a sore spot for most Indians.
    The Baloch separatists do not live in India and the government does no publicly regale them in Delhi. Whether or not covert help is given to the dissidents is not the issue, because the intelligence agencies operate in the dark and they will keep doing their dirty work, whether one likes it or not. The issue is that the state does not make it a habit to include Baluchistan in the official narrative. As of now the “alleged” help is covert. What actually stops the government to change this policy and embrace the dissidents politically and overtly, taking a cue from Islamabad ? There in lies the flaw in the analysis. The overt help and low intensity conflict in one nation compared to the “alleged” covert help in other? Its “real apples” vs. “imaginary oranges”. The question to ask is when Dana Rohrabacher can highlight the issue and conferences on the issue take place in Switzerland, why is India the bad guy? And please, author is a human rights activist frowning at alleged support to separatists. Here in India, one cannot be a Human rights activist without supporting dissidents. Its a necessary condition for baptism to the church of human rights. Author also supports ban on TV appearances, muzzling freedom of speech and advocating draconian censorship. The human rights aspect in the author’s intro is now giving me an aneurysm.

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  • Tony Singh
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:27PM

    @KP:
    Don’t bother about kalchakra, he stays in a time wrap.
    As for as Mani Shanker Iyer goes, he is not worth the cyberspace I use to comment on him. An utterly useless person who has no stake in India’s future.

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  • F
    Feb 8, 2013 - 6:44PM

    If this is reason and logic what would threat and blackmail look like. If blame and irresponsibility needed to be packaged, this is what it would look

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  • ruby
    Feb 8, 2013 - 7:12PM

    @Pakistani Ostrich:

    Nailed it.

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  • Arijit Sharma
    Feb 8, 2013 - 8:29PM

    ” … India must end its involvement in Pakistan’s internal matters and recognise that only an internally stable and strong Pakistan can be a good friend to India; and only with Pakistan and India as friends can South Asia develop to everyone’s economic and cultural benefit. … “

    A strong stable Pakistan is in nobody’s favour. Least of all India’s. Not as long as statecraft is based on glorified and falsified history of Muslims of the sub-continent. Yes, if Pakistan stops thinking of itself as ordained by destiny to lead the Muslim world, then perhaps, the benefits a stable Pakistan can be given a thought.

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  • 3rdRockFromTheSun
    Feb 8, 2013 - 8:32PM

    So Pakistan’s India policy is “Be my friend or else…” ! Nice.
    And you wonder why there are so few “friends of Pakistan” left in the comity of world nations?

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  • SAL
    Feb 8, 2013 - 8:51PM

    @Alexander:
    You forgot to mention the Mosquito attack in Delhi in 2001, Aligarh 2003 and Bihar 2010 to name a few. We presume that was done by Pakistan also. For future add this in your list.
    Cry Baby Elixir.

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  • Rakib
    Feb 8, 2013 - 9:02PM

    One feels that the essay is well intended despite the unsubstantiated allegations reg Baluchistan, which borders on being mischievous. In parts it does credit to the Author’s liberal antecedents. Her father Late Iqbal Haider of secular leanings could be counted as a genuine friend of Indians, especially of Gujarati fishermen, for whose release from Pak jails & for welfare of minorities in general he struggled hard & on whose behalf he fought many a case pro bono. Mani Shanker Iyer is a kindred soul who, despite his acerbic tongue & inability to suffer fools, talks great deal of sense on Indo-Pak matters. There are leaders (ABV & MMS) who have often said “we can choose friends but can’t choose neighbours”. In the neighbourhood neither war nor severance of relations are an option though delaying tactics can always be put to some temporary use. Strategic silence well short of a sulk can be effective communication too. But, one has to eventually move on. Many Indians of South for example have greater grouse against Sri Lanka than Pakistan but Delhi has to play down Tamil hurt in the larger interest of the nation & entertain Rajapaksa.. While brinkmanship & bonhomie will alternate in Indo-Pak conduct during foreseeable future one hopes for the sake of tomorrow’s generations that sane voices like that of Haider & Iyer are encouraged.

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  • gp65
    Feb 8, 2013 - 9:13PM

    ET please permit this response – since it implies hatred/hostility on part of Indians which are not justififed by facts.

    @Parvez:”Almost every comment is from an Indian and goes to show than no matter even if you try to initiate a discussion, it is met with hostility, blame game and basic negative thought”
    Author is repeating the talking points that have been repeated often and trying to establish false equivalence. Indians are not hostile but exasperated that the same half truths are repeated ad nauseam. Anti-India actions and speeches are so common in Pakistan that people actually do not notice them but when the occasional pro peace statement occurs, it registers with everyone. The reverse is true in India. Unless and until some ‘event’ occurs, thee is no ongoing tirade against Pakistan manufacturing outrage with deliberate lies.

    First let us discuss the immediate aftermath of LOC event
    In the immediate wake of the beheading, your armed forces even refused to come for a flag meeting – nor was this the first time. The same thing had happened in Oct. 2012 when another Indian soldier had been killed. HRK had arrogantly said that she was not answerable to a billion Indians when someone tried to interview her on the issue. This is how India was rewarded for trying to play down the issue initially. Once there were stronger statements from India’s air chief, army chief, defense minister, foreign minister and PM, suddenly Director DGMO from PAkistan was available for meeting, HRK was willing to meet Indian foreign minister at place of his choosing and so on. ALso note, the word war was used by only one person – HRK who accused India of war mongering. Not one government or army leader in India used this word.

    Let us review ongoing provocations (which India does not consider peaceful
    Apart from your PM’s speech on KAshmir day there were more articulate speeches also which asked that not just Kashmir but India should be captured and that Pakistani men would be the ‘dulhas’ of Indian women at that time i.e. a euphemism for widespread rape. http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta3/tft/article.php?issue=20130208&page=6

    The man who organized this 5000 people meeting also was responsible for killing 166 people in India and also happens to be receive protection from ISI. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/world/asia/lashkar-e-taiba-founder-takes-less-militant-tone-in-pakistan.html?_r=0 Is this peaceful? Is ARY giving him 1 hour TV slot on primetime an act of peaceful media?

    The deliberate misinformation related to MFN – who is spreading it if not your media? Even when your water commissioner explicitly said that India is honouring Indus Water Treaty, who is manufacturing outrage saying India is stealing our water if not your politicians and media? Was it responsible for Rehman Malik to talk about safety of billionaire Shah Rukh Khan in India? IS everyone safe in Pakistan? Is this an example of peaceful statement by politicians?

    Why are JeM and LeT openly able to raise funds? Why are the India specific terror camps in Muridke and Mirpur still open? Are these all acts of peace?

    Forget Indians, does any reasonable Pakistani believe that the TTP are funded by India as claimed by Rehman Malik and Hamid Gul repeatedly? HAve you not heard about the supposed 19/34/102 (pick a number) consulates that India has in Afghanistan and why would any country need those? Yet the reality is that India has exactly 5 consulates/embassies in the exact same cities as Pakistan does. Where are these lies spread if not on your media? Pakistani media still talks about Babri structure (where no worship had been conducted for 150 years prior to demolition). Do you see Indian media talking about the recent event of Indian temple being razed to ground despite court orders to the contrary? Did the court who is usually very prompt with contempt of court notices, haul anyone up for contempt of court?

    YEs Indian media responded aggressively to these events but can you provide any instance where outright lies were used to generate anti-Pakistan outrage by Indian politicians or media? I have provided several examples when the reverse has been true.

    “but that does not mean we should not try.”
    By and large most Indians are presenting facts and logic to rebut author’s opinion. I do not think that per se this constitutes negative thoughts. IF this is not a discussion , what is? Or does a discussion simply constitute a false bonhomie where every one papers over differences? IF you disagree with facts provided by anyone including me, I would definitely be keen to hear that.

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  • Indian
    Feb 8, 2013 - 9:28PM

    Majority of Indians do not want any friendship with Pakistan. It’s no friend – no enemy relation which is preferred by many of us. Why don’t you get it ? Please leave us alone, we are not interested in keeping any relation with you.

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  • Feb 8, 2013 - 9:50PM

    The Mumbai carnage has upset a lot of Indians. They will not accept anything from Pakistan, and India is progressing although there are lots of hiccups!

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  • Feb 8, 2013 - 9:55PM

    @Rakib:
    handover Hafez Sayeed and problem will be sorted!

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  • Indian Catholic
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:01PM

    @Rakib: I have always enjoyed reading your comments but I don’t think you were at your best with this one. I liked the first half where you spoke about the author’s antecedents, something which I was unaware of.
    .
    Sri Lanka is no comparison to Pakistan and it would be wrong to say that South Indians have more grouse with Sri Lanka than Pakistan. The biggest blunder that LTTE did was to assassinate Rajiv Gandhi — The day they did that, they lost all all support in the South. Of course, we are well aware of the travesties that have occurred in SL since and we know that karma has a way of coming around and biting you. You will notice that people like PC or Shiv Shankar Menon are from the South and yes, we do not have the baggage of history or kinship to delude ourselves.

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  • shahid
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:41PM

    India and Pakistan should again become one country. That will solve every thing.

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  • Vicram Singh
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:54PM

    @shahid: ” … India and Pakistan should again become one country. That will solve every thing … “

    Leave Islam then talk.

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  • Vicram Singh
    Feb 8, 2013 - 10:55PM

    @Dr Priyanka: I think Rakib is a Tamil Muslim.

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  • SM
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:01PM

    Dear gp65,

    I am confused, why do you spend so much time in explaining stuff? You clearly are articulate and know some history, but is it worth the effort? :D

    But anyways, good work, and keep the flag flying.

    About this article. As soon as the author equated Baluchistan with Kashmir, she lost her case.

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  • Parvez
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:23PM

    @Aarvey,india: You have a very valid point that admittedly Pakistan should address. At the same time it would be fair to ask Indian minds to ponder as to why Kargil or the Mumbai incidents took place. Any responsible person with an understanding of past events will come to the conclusion that there must be something quite unjust happening for events like this to take place. Sorting stuff like this out requires mature knowledgable minds, certainly not the impulsive kind.
    Appreciated your response and the way you worded it.

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  • BlackJack
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:52PM

    @Indian Catholic:
    Sir, you make a lot of sense (as usual). To imagine that South Indians feel less strongly about Pak – India relations is fatuous. People from Tamil Nadu have strong opinions on Sri Lanka (while most others may have none at all) but the attitude towards Pakistan is pretty much the same throughout the country. As regards Iqbal Haider, he was one of the saner voices in Pakistan, standing against military rule (and against the tide), and a strong advocate of human rights – this should not be used as a criteria to make assumptions on the competence or liberal views of the writer; Indira Gandhi and Nehru were about as alike as chalk and cheese although both had their plus points.

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  • BlackJack
    Feb 8, 2013 - 11:59PM

    @Parvez:
    …it would be fair to ask Indian minds to ponder as to why Kargil or the Mumbai incidents took place. Any responsible person with an understanding of past events will come to the conclusion that there must be something quite unjust happening for events like this to take place.
    Dude – since you have brought it up (and speak on behalf of responsible persons), pls enlighten us on what injustice the Kargil operation hoped to address/ redress by occupying 200 sq km of barren mountainous terrain. I am sure you will say that Mumbai was a result of aggrieved muslims who are out to make the world a better place, so let’s just focus on Kargil, which has been acknowledged as an operation by the Pak army. Will await your reply.

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  • Behari Kebab
    Feb 9, 2013 - 12:13AM

    All the Indian comments just prove the author’s point. India has been beligerent against Pakistan since day one. They all run around crying about kargil and Mumbai, but succumb to selective amnesia about their invasion of Kashmir in 1947, attempted invasion of Pakistan in 1965, invasion of East Pakistan in 1971, occupation of Siachin in 1981, let alone the ceaseless support for separatists and terrorists in Pakistan.

    ET is doing a good job by letting these Indians spew their hypocracy & hatered against Pakistan, so our “aman ka tamasha” crowd can see the real face of India and let go of their naive dreams.

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  • Karella
    Feb 9, 2013 - 12:39AM

    The author wrote a heartfelt article, and it seems to have been hijacked by seriously negative Indians.
    To the Indian commentators, let me say this. I accept the faults and issues you have raised about Pakistan. You can either be a part of our problem of part of our solution. If it’s the former, please don’t bother. Surprisingly, many of us know what it is, and are working towards resolving it, though at a pace you may find unacceptable.
    Ill accept all ur arguments, if you can answer just one of mine. Why are Pakistani channels, especially news, banned in India. If you believe in freedom of speech, and regardless that ours may be propaganda, why not let the Indian population decide.

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  • G. Din
    Feb 9, 2013 - 1:04AM

    @shahid:
    “India and Pakistan should again become one country. That will solve every thing. “
    Now go and rinse your mouth!

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  • Rakib
    Feb 9, 2013 - 1:06AM

    @Indian Catholic:

    An example should not eclipse the main point for which the illustration was used.. However, here goes…. irrespective of Tamil sentiments a Sri Lankan strongly suspected of ethnic cleansing is being engaged today in interest of India. And same holds good in case of Pak too. Talk to one talk to all, that’s what I believe.. There are people that want to break talks because an armed soldier’s head was cut off & there are people that continue talking even if lakhs of unarmed civilians have been killed. Who is more sagacious, I wonder! Who is a bigger villain for a Tamil? As per my perception it is Sri Lanka. I note that you differ. In general:- (a) PC is a political non entity in TN, he survives by the grace of Karunanidhi. Shiv Menon is a Keralite, not the most favoured flavour of Tamils lately. Entire population of Tamils of SL or of TN is not LTTE. Dislike for LTTE does not mean hatred for ALL fellow-Tamils including one’s flesh & blood & kith & kin. (b) Historical baggage between TN & SL in any case goes far beyond 1947 & the Kashmir tangle. Tamil-Singhal problems predate even Islam. Modern issues date back to British & Plantations. It is far more serious than the competitive masochism involved in losing of one’s head over heads. (c) I can not read Tamil, nor do I understand high voltage Tamil speeches, nor can I claim that I “feel” the hurt the way they do but even with a modicum of empathy I understand the agony of a people that are grossly neglected by the ChinaPak-obsessed Delhi. It would appear that Hafiz Sayeed is the only villain in the world & a maniac elsewhere doesn’t matter! Political parties like BJP or Congress (& PMs-in-waiting) go about beating foreheads if a Pandit of Srinagar is deprived of his house, as they should, or sing a dirge for a riot victim Muslim of Ahmedabad, as they must, but shed no tears for more than two hundred thousand Tamils who have lost their lives. This attitude will worsen the problem one day & if neglected inflict a long term injury to the Union.

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  • Anil
    Feb 9, 2013 - 1:33AM

    Friendship is ALWAYS between Morally Equals.
    A Rich can befriend a Poor and vice versa but there CANNOT be Friendship when there is no mutual affection and trust for each other.

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  • SM
    Feb 9, 2013 - 1:34AM

    @Behari Kebab

    Living in the 4th dimension, are we?

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  • Behari Kebab
    Feb 9, 2013 - 10:31AM

    @SM: U definitely are.

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  • Rakib
    Feb 9, 2013 - 11:54AM

    @Dr Priyanka:

    @Rakib: handover Hafez Sayeed and problem will be sorted!

    May be it will be the beginning of problems. In the process why would you want to lose one of the biggest propaganda points against Pakistan? Kasab gone, Afzal Guru gone, at least let Sayeed be to focus ire upon! Besides, I understand USA is offering a huge reward for any evidence that may lead to conviction of Sayeed. It shows that the available evidence may not be adequate. If this man is handed over to India & the inefficient groups that pass for Indian agencies (that specialise only in snooping on the Opposition party of the day) make a hash of it & Indian courts set him free, think what kind of an embarrassment would that be! Bharam Sayeed ki juffaon kaa mita denge toh kya hoga//uske chehre se ham parda utha denge toh kya hoga!

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  • Parvez
    Feb 9, 2013 - 3:33PM

    @gp65: ………..and Thank You.

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  • Manoj Joshi India
    Feb 9, 2013 - 3:40PM

    It has been a period of sixty five years plus and still the two neighbours Republic of India and Islamic Republic of Pakistan are yet to come to terms with the fact that they need to coexist and live with cooperation as confrontation never was, never is and never shall be the answer. No doubt history of these two nations need to be rewritten and the basic change that is required is to mention facts as they have happened without adding any riders to the same. So far the Indo-Pak history has been rather dichotomous wherein the hero or ideal of one side has been the villain for the other side. Hence the basic approach of the two neighbours and the citizens of India and Pakistan has been that of antipathy, distrust and malice. It is this malice, distrust and antipathy that has governed Indo-Pak relations rather dominated them since 1947. The need of the hour is to remove if not at one go gradually but steadily this distrust, antipathy and malice and to refill the vacuum created with the feelings of trust, amity and harmony. This is certainly not going to be an easy task as antipathy, distrust and malice towards one another has been the yardstick of patriotism within the two nations and to replace this yardstick of antipathy, distrust and malice is the real challenge. Agreeing with the neighbour on a particular issue or on certain issues is not being anti-national and this is what the approach need to be among the citizens of Pakistan and India. The blame game that has been yet another factor should be renounced for good and people from the two neighbouring countries must look for one another as friends or brothers of the same region. After all the citizens of Pakistan as well as India are Asians so as ‘Asian Brothers’ the people must learn to coexist. Unfortunately a neutral and unbiased approached is perceived with the eye of skepticism and the person who holds such views is seen a one opposed to his or her national interests. There is nothing seditious if an Indian supports Pakistan on any particular issue or a citizen of Pakistan supports India on an issue provided the issue or opinion is not seditious in nature. Perceiving the neighbour as an economic opportunity is yet another aspect which now should be given due weightage and should be supported unanimously. For it is then alone that the economies of India and Pakistan will be able to come out of the economic slowdown which they are suffering. The concept that damage of the neighbour is a profit to the other neighbour should now be weeded out as this will further only antipathy, distrust and hostilities. There have been cases of persons who have conspired against the neighbouring country and are yet enjoying their freedom as they are in the other country. Such persons need to be brought to the books and extradited to the neighbouring country wherein they have committed or got committed any heinous crimes. This will need an Extradition Treaty which seems essential and should be taken up by the Governments of India and Pakistan during the course of their dialogues. There have been setbacks and such will continue but the process of dialogue and move towards trust, amity and friendship must continue unabated. This is the only way to have long lasting peace in this part of the Asian continent and peace alone shall usher in prosperity which is what the people of the two nations desire.

    Recommend

  • Parvez
    Feb 9, 2013 - 3:57PM

    @BlackJack: Dude all I am saying is that it takes two hands to clap. If one can start from that premise and dispassionately gather information going back to ’47, not Internet / blogger stuff, possibly just possibly one may get a more balanced picture.
    I think the author has tried to go in that direction and I think it was a good effort.
    On a lighter note, on this subject, trust me that’s certainly not the way to go. Waving the flag is very admirable but for heavens sake don’t get carried away. I always consider you lot to be way smarter……..so prove it.Recommend

  • Manoj Joshi India
    Feb 9, 2013 - 4:01PM

    It has been a period of sixty five years plus and still the two neighbours Republic of India and Islamic Republic of Pakistan are yet to come to terms with the fact that they need to coexist and live with cooperation as confrontation never was, never is and never shall be the answer. No doubt history of these two nations need to be rewritten and the basic change that is required is to mention facts as they have happened without adding any riders to the same. So far the Indo-Pak history has been rather dichotomous wherein the hero or ideal of one side has been the villain for the other side. Hence the basic approach of the two neighbours and the citizens of India and Pakistan has been that of antipathy, distrust and malice. It is this malice, distrust and antipathy that has governed Indo-Pak relations rather dominated them since 1947. The need of the hour is to remove if not at one go gradually but steadily this distrust, antipathy and malice and to refill the vacuum created with the feelings of trust, amity and harmony. This is certainly not going to be an easy task as antipathy, distrust and malice towards one another has been the yardstick of patriotism within the two nations and to replace this yardstick of antipathy, distrust and malice is the real challenge. Agreeing with the neighbour on a particular issue or on certain issues is not being anti-national and this is what the approach need to be among the citizens of Pakistan and India. The blame game that has been yet another factor should be renounced for good and people from the two neighbouring countries must look for one another as friends or brothers of the same region. After all the citizens of Pakistan as well as India are Asians so as ‘Asian Brothers’ the people must learn to coexist. Unfortunately a neutral and unbiased approached is perceived with the eye of skepticism and the person who holds such views is seen a one opposed to his or her national interests. There is nothing seditious if an Indian supports Pakistan on any particular issue or a citizen of Pakistan supports India on an issue provided the issue or opinion is not seditious in nature. Perceiving the neighbour as an economic opportunity is yet another aspect which now should be given due weightage and should be supported unanimously. For it is then alone that the economies of India and Pakistan will be able to come out of the economic slowdown which they are suffering. The concept that damage of the neighbour is a profit to the other neighbour should now be weeded out as this will further only antipathy, distrust and hostilities. There have been cases of persons who have conspired against the neighbouring country and are yet enjoying their freedom as they are in the other country. Such persons need to be brought to the books and extradited to the neighbouring country wherein they have committed or got committed any heinous crimes. This will need an Extradition Treaty which seems essential and should be taken up by the Governments of India and Pakistan during the course of their dialogues. There have been setbacks and such will continue but the process of dialogue and move towards trust, amity and friendship must continue unabated. This is the only way to have long lasting peace in this part of the Asian continent and peace alone shall usher in prosperity which is what the people of the two nations desire.

    Recommend

  • G. Din
    Feb 9, 2013 - 5:23PM

    Mani Shanker Aiyyar was dumped on to the streets by his own party. Suddenly he surfaces in Pakistan. Pakistanis, not having any of their own to quote, go dumpster exploring in India. Oh, look, what the cat just dragged in! It is not Laloo Yadav. No, not Arundhati Roy, either. Nope, not Kuldip Nayyar, nor Ram Vilas Paswan. No, not Jyoti Malhotra or Aakar Patel either. Oh, it is Mani Shanker Ayyar!

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  • rehmat
    Feb 9, 2013 - 10:23PM

    ET – pls. allow. These are historical verifiable facts and meet all your guidelines.
    @Parvez: “Dude all I am saying is that it takes two hands to clap. If one can start from that premise and dispassionately gather information going back to ’47″

    Not BlackJack but still responding. What you say would generally be reasonable that it takes 2 hands to clap but not true in this case. Compare the perks and lifestyle of your armed force leadership and ours. Your army has a vested interest in keeping the conflict going. Let’s review key events as you suggest:

    1) Kashmir and UN resolution. Your army pretending to be irregulars attacked, forcing the maharaja to sign instrument of accession with India. Nehru went to UN. PAkistan never fulfilled the first condition of plebiscite i.e. army vacates Pak Kashmir and keeps demography unchanged. After Shimla agreement the UN resolution is moot anyway.

    2) 1965 – Pakistan attacked

    3) 1971 – 8 million migrants to India. India is poor today and was poorer then. If India had not intervened the flow would have never stopped India could not bear this. Question for you? Why were people fleeing East Pakistan? Did India have a role there or was it Tiger Niazi?

    4) Siachen – India and Pakistan had agreed in 1949 and reconfirmed in 1972 that conceptual LOC definition beyond what was physically demarcated was from LOC NJ 9842 due North to the glaciers. If this conceptual boundary is physically demarcated, Siachen would fall squarely on Indian side of LOC. India WANTS to demarcate physical LOC. Pakistan refuses. Guess why?

    5) Kargill – Pakistan attacked.

    6) 1989 onwards sending strategic assets to India who have killed thousands of Indian civilians and made hundreds of thousands homeless. The program was put on ice around 2004 when Musharraf started exploring ‘out of box solutions’. After Musharraf’s departure, program appears to have restarted. Remember the 500,000 Indian soldiers on LOC that Pakistanis regularly complain about were not present prior to 1989.

    7) 26/11 which we believe was done by LeT and which ISI facilitated based on testimony of David Headley and Abu Jundal.

    Pakistan denied state involvement in 5, 6 at the time though it admits it now. We believe the same is true about 7. Pakistan also celebrates defense day for a war that it started. There is a history of lying due to which no one believes the official version that the 10 were not in fact strategic assets of your establishment. The anger is for this reason. IF al the history did not exists and some random 10 people had got on boats and done their thing, the response would have been very different.

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  • Jacob
    Feb 10, 2013 - 12:57AM

    Well, Pakistan should first look in its own backyard. Everyone knows the truth…..hence, the author should get her facts clear before writing. India has never started any war with pakistan…..and that is a fact. India has no role to play in Balochistan. Pakistan is on a path of self-destrcution…..its own insecurities are eating it up slowly…..! India does not need to do anything. Pakistan has the habit of living in denial and in the past, sometimes 14th century or 16th century or even harping on history which is of total inconsequense today. When the world is moving ahead, its moving backwards. Instead of worrying of muslims / Islam in India or the entire world, it should focus on its own country and citizens. India does not want pakistanis to visit India and create problems. Please stay in your own country without the fear of India. India does not need trade with Pakistan. It can surely do without Pakistan….it has done in the past and will continue to do so……! Lastly, if India had not accepted creation of Pakistan, it would not be existing after 65 years…. India has had many opportunities, but relented as it has no desire to annex Pakistan. Anyhow, as they say people who are blinded by jealousy and fear, seldom think wisely.Recommend

  • BlackJack
    Feb 10, 2013 - 2:02PM

    @rehmat:
    I could not have come up with a better response even if I had tried. Thank you.

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  • Parvez
    Feb 10, 2013 - 3:56PM

    @rehmat: Firstly my answer to @BlackJack got a bit jumbled and lost the essence of what I was trying to convey.
    You are talking of nuts-and-bolts and possibly you are very correct and then again not. My contention is that when a post like the one Ms Haider has written comes up, the immediate harsh ( mild word ) response it received from the Indian comment section, only works negatively and in my view is not the way to go.
    I do not want to get into details as you have because I don’t think this is the forum nor am I qualified and it amounts to ‘ point scoring ‘, exactly what should be avoided. Recommend

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