The water car fraud

Published: August 2, 2012

The writer received his bachelor degrees in electrical engineering and mathematics, as well as masters and Ph.D degrees, from MIT

Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves a medal from the people of Pakistan for his great service to the nation. In a few short days, he has exposed just how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion. No practical joker could have demonstrated more dramatically the true nature of our country’s political leaders, popular TV anchors and famed scientists.

At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.

Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah. Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the ‘water fuel kit project’.

The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad’s invention, Pakistan’s image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man’s life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.

Pakistan’s most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai” (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved). The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: “hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha” (we had some work done on this too).

So, what is the problem? It’s that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad’s ‘water kit’, if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.

To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman, a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.

The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here’s how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the ‘water kit’ contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.

But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin’s magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 3rd, 2012.

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Reader Comments (814)

  • Ali
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:48PM

    As a current engineering student in 3rd Year, I was at first surprised and then appalled at the amount of attention this ‘discovery’ was receiving blindly. This is absurd to the point of being idiotic, pull yourself together Pakistan.

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  • Tanzeel
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:49PM

    There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’ and we all believed in it, like we believe now in law of thermodynamics. Science is how we perceive and laws are how we satisfy our observations. They tend to change with era, so be open to ideas – and at least try to get the theory out of him? Yes, it sounds dumb, but earth is round sounds dumb, isn’t it?

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  • Omer
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:51PM

    Well written,from the moment I heard about it I knew it was fake,
    I m deeply shocked by the way media and some scientists acted
    irresponsibly.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 9:52PM

    Was anxiously waiting for your piece. Dr Attaur Rehman is the only person who is continuously opposing this ‘Aladin Ka Chiragh’ but what about those engineers who were present in the Demo? I heard there were few professors as well from different universities of Pakistan, no one opposed it.

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  • Syed Ali Raza
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:53PM

    Lets just not put fossil fuels directly in our cars, lets first use them to generate electricity in power plants, then use this electricity to charge batteries, then use the battery to break water into oxygen and hydrogen, then recombine this hydrogen and oxygen to run the car, and then CLAIM ‘maine pani se chalne wali gaadi bana li’. :P

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  • GS@Y
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:54PM

    The federal cabinet of Pakistan is meeting on THIS? That is so embarrassing.

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  • lums student
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:54PM

    Well said sir. Finally a scientist stands up against this with Dr Atta-ur-Rehman. This event is an eye-opener for us. It shows how far behind are we when it comes to science and engineering.

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  • Ahmer Butt
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:55PM

    Finally a voice of sanity!

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  • Moulvi Nawaz Shareef
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:57PM

    Great article, what else can you expect from our politicians and media….but I am amazed on the views of our nuclear scientist ( Dr Samar and Dr Khan)…..Rest Dr Atta has always been an impressive personality…one of the few we have!!!

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  • HH
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:58PM

    I really am astonished how a person like Dr. AQ Khan can be this dumb, let alone the rest of the peopleRecommend

  • Asif Ali
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:58PM

    these all doctors are wrong and mindless except dr atta u rehman….hahahahaha
    dr attau rehman sahib always try to accept new things no matters who invent it..

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  • SalSal
    Aug 2, 2012 - 9:58PM

    Go to that boy and tell him that. It’s a waste of time to blast him over here on the media front. Why isn’t anyone going to him if he is that wrong? Please do so rather than sit and show the whole world our absurdity by writing about it in the papers. Stop the source of that absurdity, which is, the boy’s claimRecommend

  • Nabeel
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:02PM

    Utter insensibility you can’t violate the Law of Thermodynamics without providing any sufficient prove, i’m shocked and waiting for someone who will now prove 100% Islamic Efficiency with piston and other moving machinery.Recommend

  • afnan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:04PM

    well he at least got the publicity he was craving for :)

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  • Kanwal
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:05PM

    I am glad Dr Atta and Dr Hoodbhoy have taken this initiative to expose this fraud. But th greater delight i have is that this goes on to expose how our so-called scientists (who i am sure “invented” the “atomic bomb”), politicians and journalists like Talat Husain and Hamid Mir are a bunch of hasty and ignorant folks. As for Agha Waqar, I hope he gets his millions. Recommend

  • Sultan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:07PM

    @Tanzeel:
    Then let water boy publish in Phys Rev Lett and get his Nobel.

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  • Zubair
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:08PM

    @Tanzeel:
    Theory of earth being flat was an idea, not proven or disproven, until later it was disproved. A law of thermodynamics, is a FACT. It is the absolute truth. Violating it is equal to bringing people back from the dead. It cannot be done. :)

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  • Mirza
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:09PM

    If BS were energy, Pakistan would be a powerhouse. This hoax comes and goes and is as old as the electorlysis of water when scientists found that water can be split into its component gases namely hydrogen and oxygen. However, the amount of energy spent in breaking water molecule would be the same as obtained from its components, after assuming no loss of energy. A quick serach of the Net would reveal the facts.

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  • Aviar
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:10PM

    I wish we had more scientists like Dr Pervez and Dr Atta.
    i am deeply disappointed in Dr AQ khan. i am sorry to say this but his reaction on this “water kit” discovery has raised a lot of suspicion about his achievements.
    i know my comments will attract a lot of illiterate foul mouthed citizens but i do not care and i have to say what had to be said.

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  • Ashar Bazeb Saeed
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:11PM

    Sir this piece was badly needed. What saddens me immensely is that the media did not give two hoots about the Pakistani scientists and engineers currently working on the LHC and played their role in the discovery of a new Boson which was truly earth shattering. I was hoping someone would call up one of them and at least take a small interview. But no, the media and the politicians have gone gaga over this fraud. Sad and sorry state for this nation indeed! :(

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  • ali
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:11PM

    “The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell”
    Being related to a scientific field i don’t think you can jump to judgements without the appropriate SCIENTIFIC PROCEEDURE, even though what this man has practically proven is totally against the world understanding of physics. So why not leave your seat once in a while and go check the car out. For the greater good of Pakistani nationRecommend

  • shoaib
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:11PM

    finally, Sir i hv been waiting fr this article fr days !!!

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  • Umar Riaz
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:12PM

    The govt is so used to braking the laws that this time they decided to brake the fundamental law of nature.
    This guy reminds me of the tailor who made invisible dress for the king. Everybody praised the dress, afraid of being called a stupid untill a small kid speak out.
    I wish if that guy could sell this invention to the our king (president zardari) for $60m and then run away with the money ;-)

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 10:13PM

    Many of my Nustians friends didn’t believe in this too. Its a big fake, plain and simple. If it were true then we would have been importing water-kits from some of the more advanced nations by now.

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  • Farhan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:15PM

    How can Pervez Hoodbhoy write this article without inspecting the car? Even in courts people are innocent till proved guilty and Hoodbhoy uses bad words to call Engineer Agha a fraud etc. Hoodbhoy probably feels a lowly engineer cannot do what scientists with big big words, with big degrees can do.

    If a Pakistani engineer has shown the second law of thermodynamics as wrong and written a third law of thermodynamics making water car possible, why do we do self loathing and instead not praise and appreciate him and give him full support? This is the difference between Pakistan and west, we are not proud of our heros and confident of their abilities.Recommend

  • Sajid Khan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:16PM

    Surprised to see so much uncertainty on the part of our engineers and physicists. It reaches to the point of incompetence and ignorance. I mean you can’t even agree on one of the most basic laws of physics. And yet we doctors are slated if we don’t diagnose a complicated case in a single appointment!

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  • Harris
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:16PM

    Lets put it this way, build nuclear plants to generate electricity. Then commercialize HHO generation for the internal combustion engines. We will not have to replace already available engines in vehicles or machinery in textile mills, even the trains, we can put this fuel into them.

    Upgrading a whole nation from combustion engines to electric motors is difficult, but providing a cheap fuel commercially created using Nuclear, Geo-Thermal, Wind or Solar power seems feasible. And this idea was matured well before Waqar Iqbal broke it as a discovery for us.

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  • Ghulam Rasool Chandio
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:17PM

    Why people are against Agha’s effort? Just because he is from backward area and province and his ethnicity is not similar to our REKNOWNED scientists (read punjabi)!!

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  • JCD
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:18PM

    @Tanzeel:
    This sort of reasoning makes me wonder about the future of this nation. As a trained physicist, for the information of all ET viewers I want to make the following point. This engineer is claiming to have invented something which violates the first law of thermodynamics. The first law is probably the most basic and essential law in all of science because it pertains to the conservation of energy. Now people who say laws in Physics are meant to be broken need to understand why THE FIRST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS CANNOT BE VIOLATED.

    In the early twentieth century, Emmy Noether proved mathematically that all conservation laws correspond to symmetry laws for the rules of physics. The first law of thermodynamics therefore corresponds to a symmetry law of time. That is, the first law means that there is a symmetry law for the rules of physics in time. In layman terms, this basically means that physical laws do not change with time. The laws of physics are the same today as they were yesterday and will be tomorrow. Now this concept is so utterly basic that anyone refuting it must be considered delusional.

    Hence, if the engineer claims that the first law of thermodynamics is incorrect that means that there is NO TIME SYMMETRY LAW FOR PHYSICS. This essentially means that everything anyone has ever discovered about the universe if utterly useless. Therefore, the entire scientific community should go home and rethink their lives.

    This is the biggest joke I have ever heard.

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  • Asad Malik
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:18PM

    You might have learned this in first year at MIT but we learned this in O level chemistry. And the reason why scientists and politicians choose to believe such madness is due to the amount of money which can be made from this scam. It just further proves my point that democracy in Pakistan is a sham. When people are educated enough, I’ll start supporting democracy.

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  • Saud
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:18PM

    OK, First, I believe that the car kit is a complete hoax,and does not even deserve to be discussed, it’s a waste of time really, but umm…’no serious scientist would believe of challenging the second law’.

    A few ‘serious scientists’ over at Japan considered it (and released the findings today):

    http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/08/01/2127225/entangled-particles-break-classical-law-of-thermodynamics-say-physicists

    So much for Hoodbhoy :P

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  • khuram
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:19PM

    I was waiting for your remarks since the first day I heard of this scam- Thanks for sharing your views.

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  • Fawad
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:19PM

    Thank you Dr. Hoodbhoy! Watching it here in the US I have been shocked at the coverage of this nonsense on the Pakistani channels. Even when the coverage is mildly questioning (such as on Kamran Khan’s show yesterday) there is an inability to even ask appropriate questions to expose such a ridiculous claim that violates fundamental laws of physics. The state of education and the hold of magical, miraculous, fantastical thinking is truly depressing.

    The comment from @Tanzeel above sadly illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the scientific method: how scientific learning progresses from a belief / hypothesis (“the earth is flat”) to designing experiments that can test the hypothesis and prove or disprove it. That experiment then should yield repeatable results for anyone who chooses to do that experiment. Science doesn’t mean magic, its the name of a process that can produce replicable results.

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  • Ali S
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:21PM

    I watched Hamid Mir’s show. Although his scientific wording was vague, Agha Waqar clearly said that the kit utilizes electrodes (a battery) to split distilled water, hence the energy isn’t produced from ‘nothing’ – hydrogen fuel cell is hardly a new concept, even public transport buses in Europe use it for energy (although not exclusively), but it’s not ineffective to provide large-scale power at this point.

    I’m as skeptical as anyone of Agha Waqar’s claims (there are internet websites that contain instructions to build such a device), but if our country’s MIT-graduate engineers and scientists like yourself are busy being journalists instead of trying to come up with any solutions about Pakistan’s energy crises (same goes for our “MBBS mediamen”), even at worst Agha Waqar’s claims are forgivable considering he’s a polytechnic institute grad from Khairpur who at least brought attention to the idea of alternative energy to our masses.Recommend

  • Ali Iqbal
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:22PM

    Dear Prof.

    Being a meager student of science, i was appalled at the response given to Agha waqar. To me, questioning the second law is akin to blasphemy (metaphorically). i am happy that among my downtrodden ill educated people, there are guys like you and It gives me hope. On the other hand i am deeply saddened by the comments Dr. AQ khan and Dr. mubarikmand, why would they say things like that considering they are people of recognized eminence is beyond me.

    wishing you luck in your effort to bring sanity here.
    Ali

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  • Abdul
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:23PM

    Agha’s technology is using water as a fuel for combustion in the chamber, normally water exist in inert state but it has a very very huge and great potential energy in the form of Hydrogen and Oxygen, Agha’s technology is using this already
    existed potential energy in water by removing the molecular bonding.
    This is not a perpetual machine, it is a mechanism to use the potential energy which is already existed in water by nature, you just need to know that how to convert this potential energy in to the actual kinetic energy to produce motion. the law of conservation of energy is still intact here.

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  • entropy
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:23PM

    I think Dr. Hoodbhoy is getting ahead of himself by claiming that this car violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, unless he has the design of car in front him. The scientific question is where does the energy to propel this car come from? In petrol cars it is the chemical energy in the fuel that is converted to kinetic energy. Chemical energy potential energy is released during the conversion of hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water. The engineer of this car has not provided a convincing explanation as to where the energy to move his car comes from. The people of Pakistan are not as ignorant Dr Hoodhboy seems to think, though we don’t expect much from our politicians. But it is unfortunate that Dr Hoodbhoy has yet again has used such an affair to malign and mock the country.

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  • Cynical
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:24PM

    When humans were created from a lump of clay, why wouldn’t a car run on water?

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  • Ali Iqbal
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:25PM

    @Jz:
    i dont know why they didnt respond.. but trust me, we are being ridiculed in the outside world. what waqar is claiming is similar to saying that the river in my village is running uphill… its simply is not possible. rivers always flow downhill!

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  • ASAD CHANGEZI
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:25PM

    The poor guy (engineer waqar) is from sindh and specially from interior sindh that’s why people are calling it a fraud. I suggest here, please
    Let the time decide whether its a fraud or not.

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  • lashari abbas
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:26PM

    hello: why it cant be, it can be: remember word (water),, appreciate him despite slating!!!!!Recommend

  • Aug 2, 2012 - 10:26PM

    @Tanzeel:

    Science wasn’t your favorite subject back in school was it. The earth being flat was never a ‘law’. It was what you call a mere theory and was shattered once we had enough experimental evidence to prove that our planet was in fact spherical.
    The “LAW of thermodynamics” on the other hand has withstood everything that was thrown its way. Almost all of our machinery operates based on that Law. Every ‘scientific change’ that you mentioned takes it for granted that this Law is correct. “The second law of thermodynamics” is perhaps why we are not superheroes living in a perfect society. Because that would just not be possible would it!? God has made some restrictions about what can and cannot be done in His universe,and for now He wont allow us to get more energy than we put in. Simply not possible.

    It is one thing being open to revolutionary ideas and huge changes in the world, but being ignorantly hopeful for a miracle is not a virtue, I assure you.

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  • azam
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:27PM

    Thanks Hood Bhoy for this enlightenment, a long awaited article. I can also realize how much pain you possibly felt while writing this article and wasted your precious time to prove us such a crap “water power car” fraud.

    now I can so easily figure out a fourth class, after lower, middle and elites, in Pakistan which is our beloved, proud yet stupid and nonsense SCIENTIST CLASS setting illusions on the minds of nation. sigh!!!

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  • Khan Jr
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:27PM

    This nonsensical fraud, if memory serves me right, was perpetuated by someone in India as well a decade or so ago. The real tragedy about the ‘water kit’ saga is that it has completely exposed the educational bankruptcy of our nation – from the President downwards. How can this country progress if charlatans and hocus pocus are the order of the day. Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves to be the next president of our country as he sadly appears to be a genuine reflection of what we have become today – a bunch of mindless wishful morons.

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  • moin abbasi
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:28PM

    Slum from Khairpur’s polytechnic institute is still better than giants from world’s best educational institutes! Recommend

  • Kashif
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:28PM

    This scientist should be given a chance to prove his theory. It’s not wise to criticize him at the onset

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  • Rashid Zafar
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:29PM

    Oratorically it is wrong to reason that Agha Waqar is incapable of inventing something which the rest of the world has not invented yet. But I do agree with the rest of the arguments… We simply can’t evade hard-work on the price of daydreaming about Aladin’s lamp.

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  • LionOfPunjab
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:29PM

    The ‘water’ car has strategic significance (ISI are you taking notes) as now, India will control all of our ‘fuel’ supply!! I can bet you that there there is a direct co-relation between the people who believe that the ‘water’ car is for real and the PTI ’90-days’ khan supporters. The same delusions are at work here!

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  • Osama
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:30PM

    @Tanzeel:
    There was never any “law” that the Earth is flat. Just a belief, and an inaccurate one.
    Yes, models and theories change, but there are somethings that have been so well substantiated that they just can not be disproved just like that (It is extremely rare in science that theories are proved entirely wrong. They are only modified in light of newly acquired data and evidence). If this water car thing is actually true and works on pure water, then that doesn’t spell trouble for just the 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics alone. These elementary principles govern nature and are the basis for pretty much all of science.

    Funny that we ignore the millions of machines that follow that law for one stupid water car.

    I am so very glad that such brilliant scientists as Pervez Hoodhboy exist in our country. I’ve been expecting a word from you since the first day that man started his fraudulent claims. Your constant efforts and stance against pseudoscience such as this are extremely admirable.

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  • Sabih Zafar Ullah
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:31PM

    @Tanzeel There is almost no chance of any established laws being proved wrong now. Physics has matured to the point where we have discovered the fundamental building block of universe, the Higgs Boson, which is even smaller than your brain, if you know what I mean.

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  • Asok
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:32PM

    Ever heard of steam engines, Dr. Hoodbhoy? It is just hot water.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 10:33PM

    I have been watching videos of similar failed machines in past on Youtube. It was such a huge invention for Our Media, Politicians and so called Scientists.

    They forgot the real Hero who is praised and remembered by the world each and every day.

    Bravo to Pervez HoodBhoy for his continuous daring to speak the truth against what ever high the tide of lies is raised in this country.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 10:34PM

    The kit may not be running water only, but i think its not impossible to make such kit. If Google can run an ordinary car without driver, and even get licence for running a car without driver, then y not we can make a water car?

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  • S. Jay
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:35PM

    “Hamid Mir” has introduced us to our heroes – first he interviewed “Osama Bin Laden”, now he introduced “Agha Waqar”… What can you expect from <0 IQ anchors on TV channels who take pride (and probably make money) in making the politicians fight like cats and dogs.. Enough of circus…

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  • Umer
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:38PM

    Next one on Agha Waqar’s ‘to sue’ list is Pervez Hoodbhoy.

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  • Cherie
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:40PM

    lol – i love PH.

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  • Noreen Haider
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:43PM

    Thank you Sir for finally writing your piece. I was so sad to see people believing this car guy and getting hyper and I was thinking just the very same thing that you have mentioned that we are a country where people are looking for miracles, short cuts and snap solutions for everything from getting richer to scoring high in exams to having investments multiplied and conquering the west through “ijtamaai dua” alone and now we have this new miracle car to celebrate where we will have to just use water and be rid of all our energy crisis.
    The only miracle that has really worked successfully in this world is quest for knowledge, perseverance and hard work. It works like magic every time.

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  • unbeliever
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:43PM

    @Tanzeel:
    that was never a law, to begin with.
    that was a dogma, a belief reinforced by religious scriptures.
    and those who challenged it were hanged, so people were rather forced to believe that it was a law, a law of nature. and there never was any corroborating evidence to prove that earth was flat, except the god.

    but, second law of thermodynamics is a law, not a theory…..and i hope you understand the difference between theory and law.

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  • zeeshan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:47PM

    Any one watching his first interview with Hamid mir could have smelled fouled,given he has some basic understanding of science and the way his assistants were defining that they applied the first law of thermodynamics , the TOPIC of resonance and what not …was enough Comedy for me.

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  • Raja
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:51PM

    Reminds me of the “herbal petrol” fraud in India a few years ago the ‘discoveror’ claimed to be able to generate a liquid by boiling some herbs in water. There definitely was a furore. Some individuals and organisations gave him cash prizes. He gave a demo and the ‘fuel’ generated was actually used to run a car. Heck, he even started selling this fuel for half the cost of gasoline. There were rumors of some politicians threatening him to part with his secret cheaply.

    The government of India asked a team of professors from IIT Madras to evaluate his experiment. They concluded that the experiment was not repeatable and hence not scalable

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  • Faizan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:54PM

    well let them Examine First… We should not be Judgmental….

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  • Syed Mohsin Bukhari
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:55PM

    @Tanzeel:
    they explained their theory …. they do hydrolysis of something they like to call “HHO” and some capacitors that have water as dielectric. This is how they believe they defied 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

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  • Zaki
    Aug 2, 2012 - 10:59PM

    There is no difference between literate and illeterate scientist in our society

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  • C. Nandkishore
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:00PM

    Well in the 1990s we had our Ramar Pillai from Tamilnadu who claimed to produce petrol from leaves. Mind you he was a school dropout. The Tamilnadu assembly passed a resolution praising him. When the Union Science Minister said it was not possible members from Tamilnadu accused him of being against Tamils.
    Before a distinguished audience of scientists in Delhi he added a fistful of leaves and bark to a litre of water, let it boil for 30 minutes and then sprinkled the mixture lightly with salt, citric acid and other chemicals. A layer of a kerosene-like substance materialised at the top. The Indian science establishment wanted to know how he did it. “We all saw it, but didn’t completely understand it,” said the first secretary in the government’s science and technology department. “We can’t explain the chemistry, but it was carried out in a scientific manner. There was no magic about it at all.’
    A senior chemist at the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi, said: “Until we know exactly what is in the mixture, we can’t say for sure if this is real, but I do not think he is a trickster.”
    Later it turned out that he used a hollow glass stirrer in which he filled petrol and sealed it with wax. Due to the boiling of water in the vessel the wax melted and the petrol escaped to the top of the vessel.
    We also had our God Ganapati drinking milk. But that is another story.

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  • Faraz
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:02PM

    @Tanzeel:
    Will you believe if someone says gravity does not exist??? If you have studied college sciene(?) you will know that the claim this water kit guy is making is equivalent to saying that gravity does not exist. But you will say …science is how we perceive it, science is NOT how we perceive it, science is how nature IS, fundamental laws DO NOT change, they may have been wrong about the shape of the earth but this is NO law, so don’t quote that example. But this is beyond our understanding.

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  • MUNIB
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:03PM

    @Tanzeel

    [ There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat . . ]

    It was NOT a law , it was just a view by few without any proof (including few learned ones) . Science later proved it to be wrong.

    The wise accepted it but looks like anything to do with wisdom is our enemy.

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  • mudassir
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:04PM

    the contribution from energy from environment is also there
    read last paragraph in particular for details
    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html

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  • Fowad Iqbal
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:05PM

    Its a strange way to see how the people living in pakistan look and think about a situation including the writer!!
    If one person has shown a strange car!! first thing is that media will show it to public thats what they do!! They cannot prove it weather its right or wrong!!! who will do it scientists will do it !!!!

    According to me what
    Dr AQ khan was saying is you must test it and then say it if its fraud or not.Thats how a ethical person will do it!! and thats how it happen all over the World!!

    What Dr Attaur Rahman is saying no!!!! no need of checking its fraud for sure ( while sitting home )!!! without checking wether even if its going again law or not ?

    The solution is not just getting education and degree its the acceptance of people !!! We have to accept each other and listen to each other what other is saying before saying it right or wrong!!! there is no other way to success!!!

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  • Uzair
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:05PM

    Very well written article – finally sense prevails on what should have been common sense.

    Those who are arguing that “nothing is set in stone” in science have probably never studied science itself. The Second Law of Thermodynamic is so basic and fundamental that the world would not work without it – it cannot be violated.

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  • pakis rok kerte hain
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:06PM

    this is a planted plant by the govt to gain some popularity before they leave… ofcourse the claim would be proven wrong after the next election and the wrath of people would fall on the next govt instead….. why is the cabinet meeting over n over again on this issue? To gain some attention for themselves? Or to gauge whether this is workable when all of them have fake degrees? Or rather to decide if its Halaal to run our vehicles on water? If an invention was really made then make it commercial rather than call cabinet meetings to gain attention over a fake technology

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  • Ahmed Syed
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:07PM

    Give me scientific evidence. PH failed to provide one and based his article on excerpts of interviews that proves neither side of the story.

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  • Ali
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:07PM

    As a Mechanical Engineer I have no doubt about the failure of this crap idea. Not a single experiment took place in the history of the world that violate the Fundamental Laws of Physics.
    The inventor even don’t know about the Energy Balance. He is not taking into account the Electric Charge being utilized for Electrolysis.
    Around the world technical issues are being discussed in Conferences/Seminars/Technical Sessions but unfortunately in Pakistan we have Capital Talk

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  • Wall builder
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:10PM

    Shame on all of you. This is Pakistan’s only breakthrough in the field of science and all of you are making fun of it. What happened to Dr. Abdus Salam? He invented the Higgs Boson and Higgs hijacked it from him. Now because of your attitude, somebody will hijack the water pump from our 1st Islamic sainsdaan from Sindh Saeein Ibn Agha sahib. Saein to Saein, Saein ka Sainsdan bhi Saein.

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  • Anonymous
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:11PM

    Thank you for writing this article. Thank you for saving us from the frustration of watching all this. Being an engineer it was too painful to see our scientists agreeing to such false claims. Thank you for making awareness. Pakistan is doomed. We have committed suicide. I wish I was not born to see all this happening in Pakistan. I am humiliated being a Pakistani.

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  • syed mahmood gilani
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:12PM

    I am chem engr and serving in fertilizer industry for about 20 years. We produce hydrogen from natural gas which is further converted to ammonia gas. Now a days fertilizer plants are dacing acute shortage of gas. I wonder now our national hero will give us enough energy and hydrogen that we not be requiring natural gas…… So called Engr agha waqar sems not a fool. He got what he wanted. I think our mefia and our sold scientists like Dr shaukat and Dr Qadeer are big fools…They steping their nation down just for their cheap popularity. I dont think these scientists anchors like hamid mir and tallat are ignorant of basic science laws but they have become the part of a big political fraud… Shame for all….. This drama has brought our national immage down to foolishness……

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  • Asad
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:13PM

    @Ghulam Rasool Chandio: are you serious now you are making it into a ethnic issue? reading your comments I lose more hope in Pakistan that there are any sane people left there.

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  • Net Baba
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:14PM

    Respected Sir, you have not stated a single proof other than just making fun of the guy .. have you tested his work? he has challenged all of you but instead of practically going out there and checking this out every one is just making fun and putting allegations and useless personal believes ..i wish some one can practically prove it that he is a fraud like Agha Waqar has.

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  • Bilal Ahmad
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:16PM

    The best part is that dr pervez wrote this article without meeting mr Agha and without having a look at the invention. Cannot expect this piece from mr hoodbhoy without digging the details. I would request mr Agha to give him a ride even if he doesn’t agree. Give him a world tour ride till he reaches MIT.

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  • pakis rok kerte hain
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:17PM

    lmao@ SAUS…. the article you have cited is about ‘entangled particles’… if you take 2 minutes to google that instead of posting your expert opinion you will find that entangled particles come in quantum physics at sub-atomic level and not at the classical physics…. everything behaves differently at the quantum level including space and time than it would in the world of classical physics….. the car engine works at classical level, do you really believe this person had resources and expertise to work on the quantum level, that wold be like outdoing CERN by 100 years and yours and Tazeels comments only verify what the professor had to say about unrealistic attitudes in our society… we live in a fake world and we can’t even bother to google something before we make an opinion when we have a better method to make our opinions ie emotionally

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:19PM

    @Hoodbouy:
    In my view, the experiment you demanded is not the good check for it. When hydrogen will be injected via the intake pipe just like gas kit in generators, pistons will start to move and generator will start. He had shown the working of generator with water kit as well.

    Problem is the continuous supply via battery, batter will soon be dead even if you provide a live wire from generator to batter to keep charging. This is his claim which is again the law of thermodynamics

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  • G. Din
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:19PM

    “A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here’s how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the ‘water kit’ contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.”
    As someone who has a smattering of Physics, I agree with you 100%. We have also had such “inventors” in India. Luckily, it was handled here in a mature, scientific way by men of science and commonsense. You have suggested a simple experiment. I would like to add a caveat to it. Please, for the sake of fairness and India, do not draw your water for the experiment from any water source that has passed through India. It is just to forestall the usual suspicion:”Aaaha, the reason you can’t run anything with this water is because India had already stolen the electricity from it.”

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  • Hassan Ali
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:22PM

    Am I the only one who feels that this “water car project” is an insult to the field of engineering?
    I cant believe that our scientists are such idiots as to say that it can be done.Recommend

  • Net Baba
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:23PM

    Respected sir, you have not stated single evident prove that this guy is a fraud other than insulting.. putting allegations and making fun of the guy .. have you personally checked his work? people mostly here are just saying things like this, insulting Agha Waqar without even practically going there on the ground and proving that he is a fraud. merely by saying he is doing this and that wont be enough .. please kindly we would appreciate if you personally go and check his work and then prove it wrong .. Thank you much respect

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  • Usman Masood
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:24PM

    So what if one day, people do manage to make a car that runs on water?
    People used to think matter was absolute, anti-matter changed all that didn’t it?

    I don’t think its wise to simply discourage a dreamer, let them dream. Maybe one day someone will be successful.

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  • Naveed
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:29PM

    Another senior scientist bashing and in ignorance and jeleosy with out any definative proof or reasoning.Dr sahab may be MIT graduate But then again doest even understand the Process State Change .Even being a Nuclear Scientist him self where using a minimal Thermal Explosion to initiate a Nuclear Reaction .Using very small amount of energy to produce a very large amount.How state change of reaction.Translating a Thermal reaction into an Nuclear fission reaction.Same is done here he is using Electrolysis to break up water in HHO(Brown`s Gas) and then this HHO is Combusted In Engine Cylinder.The problem With 2nd law would have arose only one the same Electrolysis is used again to fuse HHO.Same as getting a Bigger Thermal Blast from smaller Thermal Blast in a Nuclear bomb without getting a fission reaction.

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  • Zohaib
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:30PM

    Ofcourse the car cant run on water alone. But i think there must have been some fuel in the water kit. Its true that using water along with regular fuel can greatly increase its efficiency. Water breaks into hydrogen which burns very quick and burns the petrol much better along with it. Hence the petrol becomes more efficient due to the hydrogen. Saw it on youtube.

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  • Anonymous
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:31PM

    Thank you for writing this article. Thank you for saving us from the frustration of watching all this. Being an engineer it was too painful to see our scientists agreeing to such false claims. Thank you for making awareness. Pakistan is doomed. We have committed suicide. I wish I was not born to see all this happening in Pakistan. I am humiliated being a Pakistani.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:31PM

    Hi

    It is about time Hoodbhoy stops deriding and demoralizing those who work for Pakistan’s future.

    It doesn’t matter if scientist Agha Waqar is right or wrong. What matters is that he is making an effort, a considerable effort. What have Ata Ur Rehman and Hoodbhoy have done for our beloved nation anyway?

    The least we can do is practice some patience and wait for scientist Agha Waqar’s experiment to be practically tested. Success and failure can be decided only after that.

    Thank you.

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  • Net Baba
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:32PM

    Respected sir, you have not stated single evident prove that this guy is a fraud other than

    insulting.. putting allegations and making fun of the guy .. have you personally checked his

    work? people mostly here are just saying things like this, insulting Agha Waqar without even

    practically going there on the ground and proving that he is a fraud. merely by saying he is

    doing this and that wont be enough .. please kindly we would appreciate if you personally go and

    check his work and then prove it wrong .. Thank you much respect

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  • Huzair
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:33PM

    This is a BIG JOKE !
    You surely needs energy first for break-down of water. If this is like that then it was invented in ancient times and named ‘STEAM ENGINE’!!! (as that also runs on water for layman but on charcoals for real physicts)

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  • Imran
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:34PM

    Every body wants to dismiss Agha’s claim. It could be a mistake, hoax or reality. I think instead of making fun of him, his work should be evaluated. Thats what Dr. Qadeer said as well. Regarding the perpetual motion machine thingy, I think this concept is being coerced to be applied in this situation where as what he might be doing is just exploiting the energy stored in water. Who knows, may be he found a way to disturb the molecular bonding. The rest is Hydrogen burning and we know hydrogen can really burn. For those who talk about 2nd law of thermodynamics, what do you say about nuclear fission reaction. The amount of input energy is less than the amount of output energy. Doesn’t this violate the 2nd law ??? Of course there is the difference of mass in this equation, but from the surface it seems like you input less and get more. All I am saying is, give the guy a chance, it may be, just may be that he found some thing that we dont know. There may be some hidden component like the mass in fission reaction which makes this possible. If I were Agha, I wouldn’t tell every one how I made it work till I have some assurance that my invention will not be stolen. I think Dr. Qadeer is talking along these lines too. And at the end, it may not be true, but hey lets try at least.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:35PM

    I made a power point presentation to explain my friends why this “WaterCar” will not work. Posted it on my facebook account. Many of fellow Engineers presented verbal certification from “National Heros” as argument against the logic I presented and Laws of thermodynamics. This raises serious questions on the standard of education we are having in Pakistan.

    This should be a explanations from those who had been certifying this project and some sacking must be done. If these guys can be fooled by a technician, you can imagine what foreign companies would do to them to get their projects approved.

    The link to my facebook post (Tuesday) is following:
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151302587305830&set=a.10151302414790830.562455.635425829&type=3&theater

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:35PM

    We should wait and let the time decide whether its fraud or not!

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  • Hamza Khan
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:36PM

    More than once Mubarak do i find myself in disagreement with the Doctor of Philplosophy. Here however, he has hit the bingo zone. The illiteracy of the masses and frustation of the few educated have put them in hopes for the supernatural; in hopes of a reason to be proud of the country. But the behaviour of the more celebrated of the scientists like AQ Khan and Samar Mubarak can cause a rational person to doubt the very existence of the Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.

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  • Mumraiz Ahmed
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:39PM

    I would simply say, clear investigations should be done & it should be positively & constructively,I also believe that Every thing is possible, we all know that we get 8000 times more energy by enriching a nuclear atom,as compared to burning one atom of Carbon.

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  • Ehtesham Rafique
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:40PM

    I have a business background and am not well-versed with the science surrounding this affair. And so I would like to pose a few questions for the knowledgeable engineers here.

    We derive a tremendous amount of kinetic energy from fossil fuels; (1) why is this law of thermodynamics not applicable for fossil fuels like petrol? The sun has been burning bright and hot everyday for about 4.5 billion years now, and its source of energy is hydrogen (and helium). (2) Why is the proposition that oxyhydrogen (a.k.a Brown’s Gas/HHO) can be used as an alternative fuel to derive kinetic energy, so preposterous? It is, after all, used for welding.

    Apparently there is an efficiency barrier — it takes more energy to produce the gas than the energy the gas itself will release when burned. However, I think it is the job of researchers and scientists to figure out how to break this efficiency barrier. Even though nobody gave him a mandate or any funds, this poor guy Agha Waqar has been trying to do this very job for a while. He has made an attempt to break this efficiency barrier (and claims that he has succeeded) in a time when such a breakthrough is desperately required. (3) Why would someone stereotype Waqar’s earnest efforts as “fraud” when instead, they should embrace this development as an opportunity to intensify research for tapping into this potential utility of water?

    I humbly say that if Waqar’s kit powers a small car for 100-200 kilometers without damaging any electromechanical components in the vehicle, he would win over all his critics. And so I ask my last question: (4) Has Waqar demonstrated the wonders of his kit for a long enough distance, or does he just zip around until the “2 liters” of distilled water run out?

    Thanks in advance.

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  • Waqqar Ahmed
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:41PM

    @Ghulam Rasool Chandio:
    Why would you bring ethnicity in science. Before writing this comment, I wish you had investigated about the ethnicity of Dr. Atta & Hoodbhoy!!!

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:41PM

    “Science is how we perceive and laws are how we satisfy our observations. They tend to change with era -”

    @Tanzeel: put very simply, the Second Law of Thermodynamics says the when you roll honest dice you can’t expect to come up with sevens every time. It’s been true since antiquity and no one sees it changing any time soon, regardless of what future eras may bring.

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  • Saad Malik
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:42PM

    I too am skeptic about the application of this and the media is ignorant in the way its portraying it, but lets examine the science.
    The thing to see is whether the energy produced by combustion of hydrogen (depends on the mass of hydrogen produced and its calorific value) is feasibly greater than the electrical energy put into separating it from water. If so, this could work. The point to note is that the electrical energy input for electrolysis is not the source of power, rather it is the chemical energy in hydrogen which is the source of power.
    Analogy: If you use a small electrical charge to set off a tonne on explosives, then use some of the energy released by the explosion to create another electrical charge to set off another tonne of explosives, and so on. No thermodynamic laws are violated, as the explosives are being replenished. For the case in hand, Oxygen in the air ‘replenishes’ the hydrogen during combustion to produce water.
    Delving into the chemistry: The OH-H bond broken during electrolysis must require less energy than the energy released when whatever bonds are formed during combustion for this to be possible (for quantitative information, please consult a chemistry professor). Keeping in mind that the atmospheric oxygen plays a part, this is not a closed system. This is the energy balance that must be favorable, which it may very well not be. In which case, the device cannot work.

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  • Mir
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:43PM

    Professor deserves respect for his ideas and his initiatives on social problems in Pakistan.
    I belong from Khairpur Mir’s a city where the city’s major Shah Latif University is running with our proper faculty members and where the use of unfair means is common during examination. It challenges the credibility of the degree holders from Khairpur.

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  • Umair
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:45PM

    @Saud:
    There is already a theory, that at sub-atomic (Quantum) level, laws of conventional and classical physics can be bent or totally violated. At the quantum level, its a whole new universe. But, at higher level, atomic, the established laws of Physics and Thermodynamics will always hold true.

    Like all other pseudo-scientists, you have given reference of a totally unrelated theory. And mind you, it is just a “Theory”. That theory, may turn out to me a law one day, but there will be years of collective research and experimentation involved, with big minds working on it. It will be deliberated upon by the world class scientific community, not by politicians, bureaucrats and TV anchors.

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  • mech
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:50PM

    @Tanzeel:
    That was a belief proved wrong by a Scientist. Here is a scientific law being misunderstood by an Ignorant person. he believes he is not violating any law of thermodynamics in doing so :)

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  • kumail
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:51PM

    I understand this is not a miracle or rather unique. No one wanted to attempt this for fear of the Western oil monopolies and cartels imposing their agendas on third-world countries in the name of globalisation. Agha Waqar can become a billionaire or he may be removed in the way of this oil Mafia. But dismissing it as a fraud is uncalled for. Even in science many times the practical comes and then comes the theory.

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  • Muhammad
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:51PM

    even if Mr Agha is right all this shows we are a failed state, mind and body both!

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  • Asad Mehmood
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:54PM

    To view around 360 in a research of any discipline makes anyone more knowledgeable. Exploring theory and developing hypothesis seems to be a serious mature activity. Which most often opens new doors in science. But trying out for invention in darkness has a probability of one in a million in today’s en lighted information age. Each discipline exist with finite body of knowledge which is being challenged, tested, proven and added with new concepts with the passage of time. Modern Physics have evolved from basic concepts to more complex and contemporary paradigm. Those who have gone through the tough paths knew exactly in first instant about the gimmick played by inventor Agha Waqar.

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  • Barkat Shah Kakar
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:55PM

    As usual a well written article by Prof Hudbhoy …..It shows how naive, impractical and irrational attitude our anchors, politicians and scientists have. It is a very simple matter of therdynamics ….. it reveals that we as nation are in the polemic age….we cellebrate our ignorance and still believe that if clay can form man why water cannot generate an energy worth mechanics and dynomism..

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  • Farooq
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:55PM

    @Tanzeel:
    Jump off the seventh floor. Be open to new ideas. May be you don’t fall flat. You may start flying.

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  • usman
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:55PM

    why u people r reacting lie this?? if agha waqar is fraud he will b exposed n mr hoodboy hav u checked that car by yourself or u r comparing yourself with mr a q khan???

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  • Aleena
    Aug 2, 2012 - 11:56PM

    Interesting article. I don;t claim to be a master of physics, i chose the biological sciences as my field of study for college. But i do have a basic and adequate understanding of it, and i was flabbergasted to hear this news. How can water produce energy to power a car? and if it can why has it not been done before? My father who is an engineer thought the same but we discussed a few, perhaps far fetched possibilities. Maybe his device can isolate hydrogen from water, in that case hydrogen is a fuel on its own. A powerful one. Or maybe its a complete oax. In any case. let the guy prove his theory. If he’s right. this could be the dawn of a new era. If he isn’t, well we’ll move on. And yes big hoaxes happen all the time in the scientific community. If anyone would remember the cloning hype era. But discoveries are made all the time which alter the way we percieve the world. Just a few months ago< the scientific community was beginning to question Einsteins Relativity. Give the guy a chance, maybe he’s on to something. I think as members of the scientific community we know better than to completely dismiss an idea till its been thoroughly investigated.

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  • Aug 2, 2012 - 11:59PM

    The only thing that comes to mind is that this man who comes from MIT and have taught in the relevant field for 14 years would not bother to go and do what Agha Waqar is asking everyone including Attaurehman i.e. “Please come on tele and prove me wrong with your expensive education”. This is the level of reluctance by our intelligentsia for finding truth. The writer is sneering at the whole Pakistani nation for day dreaming due to the energy crisis but he will not do what the right course of action would have been in any other country if such a thing had to happen ever. If Agha Waqar is yearning for cheap popularity as the writer claims, so is the writer for leaving everything aside and writing just an article to earn a few bucks from the paper. Another blunder that the writer makes in contrast with Mr. Attaurehman is that both are referring to two different laws of thermodynamics. Watch capital talk of July 31 on youtube.com. I am also of the view that this would be hardly possible especially because of the energy and circumstances required for electrolysis yet the way we are handling this issue is pathetic.

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  • Gulreyz
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:00AM

    We should examine the things how this happen and not to just making our assumptions that its impossible. That person is not doing anything hidden, a lot of people have demonstrated those are not blind. They may have check from a lot before declaring it is true.We don’t do anything and don’t let other do it, we just get used to resist everyone who want a change.
    We cannot support someone we are just experts in pulling legs.

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  • Shakir Lakhani
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:01AM

    Most Pakistanis, being end products of generations of cousin marriages, are stupid enough to believe anything. Some years ago, a so-called “doctor” in Hyderabad claimed to have found a cure for diabetes: he used to feed diabetics with a medicine made of 100% sugar! I know a man who gives away a kind of powder to diabetics to lower their blood glucose level. I told him to get his formula patented and get a pharmaceutical company to market his product, and give to charity the millions he’d earn in royalty, but he declined (he knows that if the powder is tested in a lab, it will prove to be a harmless mixture of salt and flour. As for this miracle “water-fuel” car, the so-called inventor probably hopes to get a huge loan from the government before he disappears.

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  • Zunaira
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:03AM

    science is not limited and the laws are man-made, no one can be so sure that law of thermodynamics once made is impossible to challenge. i am not saying that he was right nor saying he is a fraud. but we should make a team of scientists both in favour n opposition who could personally witness the car running on water. and then decide whether its a fraud or miracle. every new law negates or surpasses the previous one.

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  • Faizan Badar
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:03AM

    I am still wondering that people like head of PCSIR, Abdul Qadir khan ….. are saying that this is possible, I mean either they are laying and if not then they dont know after all that studies, practicals and experiments. I am shocked.Recommend

  • s.w.a
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:04AM

    @JCD:
    I cant possibly agree with you more on this. I myself am a physicist and this whole affair is so disturbing to watch. And yes if the basic law of conservation of energy, on which we base each and every one of our mathematical calculations, fails we may just have to burn our books and move to some asylum..

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  • Aug 3, 2012 - 12:04AM

    This is so great…

    “Residents of Hyderabad chant slogans in the favor of scientist Agha Waqar during a demonstration in front of the Hyderabad Press Club. Agha Waqar has found that motor vehicles can run off water, and water alone.”

    Google it and check out the pictures of the latest Pride of Pakistan.

    I am an Indian… and I am loving it!

    :)

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  • Albert
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:07AM

    Hoodboys own contribution to Physics is questionable as he was recommended by Iqbal Ahmad at a time when American universities were infested by vacuum because of Americans fighting the war in Vietnam. And after all these years he has contributed to research only through his own students ( whether with their permission or not another story all together). He fails to present a fair critique of the Kit, and ends up just making fun of all those incompetent individuals who are not scientists. A mere reference to second law of thermodynamics would not absolve his failure to decipher what is so fraudulent about the kit, after all hybrid cars in the west make use of different fuels and what not.

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  • Sunny
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:10AM

    @Abdul:
    The “potential” energy you speak of is the reason Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms bind together in the first place. The oxidation of hydrogen causes water to be produced in an exothermic reaction. In order to split the same, external energy needs to be applied. The only way that I know of for this process to generate more energy than it uses is via the mythical Cold Fusion theory which has been discredited a long time back. Anything else is unfortunately, just a fraud.Recommend

  • Mughis Khan
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:11AM

    Well, i am not a scientist or a chemist. But i am just wondering about the irresponsible statements by various prominent personalities. Is Federal Cabinet really having a fourth meeting on this issue, WOW. One can imagine the time and cost spent on this. As if all of them have nothing else to do.

    One major aspect of development and prosperity has been lost by Muslims…..Research. Dig into the things before blindly accepting the fact.

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  • hasan
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:12AM

    I am surprised at the author.. how cud he write this piece of article without first thoroughly researching the topic .. i am a student of science (and that also from no ‘polytechnic’ institute) and if the author had actually searched the internet then he would have known that running motors on water is no new discovery .. it has been around for more than 2 decades, and this experiment has been in constant debate and controversy for many years and such cars have been made previously in quite a few countries .. if you ahve any doubts then go and search for ‘joe’s cell’ and you’l know running cars on purely water is possible and has bveen done.. this mnan has only reproduced others work here in pakistan so may bve he’s no scientist or engineer but he’s no fraud either.. and certainly no genius because any one with brains and a little knowledge of electronics and mechanics can easily reproduce this.

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  • dr.gulam asghar
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:13AM

    whatever the law of physics, or chemistry… these certainly are valuable laws. no doubt about it. But ,master explain to us ”why this car ran on water?”
    And, if you are scientist, then go and prove him wrong on field rather than writing a course on why this can not happen.
    besides all other things, it is also attack on spirit of so called scentific philosphers who profess all their life principles but fail to produce anything from their ”neurons”Recommend

  • Chacha Ghalib
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:15AM

    @Abdul:
    IInitially you have water and some energy which is used to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. This hydrogen and oxygen is combined to form water and energy which is used to drive the car. So water + energy ==> hydrogen + oxygen ==> Water + energy. See you start with water and energy and end up with water and energy. If there is no loss of energy then this is a perpetual machine

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  • Aug 3, 2012 - 12:16AM

    I simply say let him prove and scientist to test before saying its nonsense.

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  • Ali tanoli
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:16AM

    One of my American friend has been working on this water kit project since last five years but could not succeeded yet but nothing is imposible…. in the world of KUN FA YA KOON.

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  • zahaab
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:17AM

    to ali iqbal

    @Jz:
    i dont know why they didnt respond.. but trust me, we are being ridiculed in the outside world. what waqar is claiming is similar to saying that the river in my village is running uphill… its simply is not possible. rivers always flow downhill!

    dear sir you can make water flow up a hill by a ram pump no metter how much height without using any motor power so plz read about ram pumpRecommend

  • Muhammed Saifullah Khan
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:18AM

    Well.. i wont do the same mistake that hamid mir and some politicians have done and i wont commit the sin that u guys are committing as well… i would rather agree with Dr. Qadeer and half heartedly with Dr. Samar mubarik mand as well… u see i havent recieved any information or a sloid proof of him being right (by him i mean Mr. Waqar) but neither i have had an evidence of him being wrong so if i was at a monumental place like Mr. DR QADEER i would would say yes to encourage inventors,and put a check on him in more softer tone rather than the one used by Mr atta on national tv that would simply shatter any new upcoming inventers and shake them to their bones of being insulted. If anyone is to beblamed is news anchor he should have asked a concerned scientist not nuclear physicist or a office going scientist to accompanyhim and scrutinizethe claim and then made it public. Similarlythis guy who wrote the article just to be in spotlight of the other side of ring should have waited for evidence … remember law does not give us mandateto over rule claims without evidence u have to prove law is right every time. And it should be fairly easy as the world is on your side and he stands alone. :)Recommend

  • afzaal
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:20AM

    plz request them not to waste our scarce public money on a stupid hoax……………

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  • saif
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:22AM

    any serious science student/teacher wouldnt waste his breath rejecting this lunacy, Id expect them to laugh and move on, but as Houdboy says, we have proven just how desperate we have become. its not a scientist with a word on the Higgs Boson we are talking about, its the fundamental newtonian laws, we dont sit and debate them because thats one of the few things man is certain of

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  • asad
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:24AM

    Sir most respectfully,you write i respect,but someone or you people should have courage to defend yourself in front him not by writing articles here….because your primary tool is practical work,,,,not theretical work
    Thanks.Recommend

  • zahaab
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:27AM

    Ali Iqbal
    Aug 2, 2012 – 10:25PM
    Reply

    @Jz:
    i dont know why they didnt respond.. but trust me, we are being ridiculed in the outside world. what waqar is claiming is similar to saying that the river in my village is running uphill… its simply is not possible. rivers always flow downhill!

    water can move uphill without motor power by ram pump so do read about it plzRecommend

  • Tabish
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:27AM

    Why can’t a credible institution with scientists and engineers check it out and report their findings. Or we too prudent to that and instead of doing that we discuss our science lessons and spend time on blogs.
    It needs testing from a credible institution and results should be acceptable to all.

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  • Ali Sajid Imami
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:28AM

    To all the “Defenders”, This is not how science works. Science is not a matter of public opinion. You can’t pass a law in an assembly and magically make an Ostrich “Not-a-bird”.

    Science is a journey for truth, Poetically speaking.
    We observe phenomena and update our beliefs based on the available evidence. What Agha Waqar has done is not completely tested. It has nothing to do with his ethnicity or origin. What he’s saying is basically incompatible with what we have in science. It goes against two very basic laws in science. The Two laws of Thermodynamics. Both restrict what can and cannot be done with energy.
    So, according to the first law, You cannot magically create new energy, and according to the second law, you cannot get 100% efficiency, because entropy will always increase. The total amount of energy spent will always be more than the amount of energy put in.

    That said, Scientific LAWS are the very basis of science. They are laws because they are inviolable. they are based on observation, not an assembly hearing or a cabinet meeting.

    What Agha Waqar has, is not even a theory, it can be called a hypothesis, using the definition of hypothesis very very loosely.

    There is no conspiracy. There is just ignorance and wishful thinking. And we need to grow out of it, if we ever want to progress as a nation.

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  • Akbar
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:28AM

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics cannot be violated… its simple. It has withstood scrutiny for thousands of years.

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  • Rapid
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:29AM

    Everywhere in world there are jokers making absurd claims like running car on water. But in evidence based societies which follow the proven scientific methods these jokers don´t last long.

    The manner in which some TV-Anchors, Ministers and Scientists supported this claim is mind blowing.
    We are an ignorant nation and take pride in being ignorant. We just love to be a
    laughing-stock.

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  • Big Rizvi
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:31AM

    Is there a catalyst that can convert water to a combustible substance? If not, then a water kit is impossible. But there seems to be nothing that science can not achieve, this subject needs more research.

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  • Ali tanoli
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:34AM

    I have a question for Dr Pervaz Hoodbhoy is not it Dr A Q khan suceeded in making Atomic
    Bomb by diffrent than traditional way. and in history peoples allways laughed at inventors..Recommend

  • Umair Usman
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:36AM

    Actually the basic problem is that this guy who is just a “DIPLOMA HOLDER” did what you guys who are holding degrees from the best institutions around the world could not do.No disrespect but are you trying to tell us that you are better than thee “AQ Khan” and this is some sort of a publicity crap that he is involved in???….He has seen the car and he is telling the whole nation that this car actually works,so I recommend you see that car yourself and then make some statement and in the mean time appreciate that person for what he did….I must also mention that I am just a medical student so I dont know much about these engines and stuff but I do have the a little knowledge about potential and ionization energy of water which makes me think that this is quite possible…..And I really hope that this water engine actually works.

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  • system engineer
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:37AM

    finally something for people to know the caliper of Dr Khan’s dumbness..

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  • Aug 3, 2012 - 12:38AM

    This is an insult to your nation. I do not mean this lovely little dream machine, but an Op-ed to say that you cannot dream. It isn’t as though people were tanking up with baltis and piping it in their cars. One man with a sense of drama does not mean that the Hondas would die a slow death.

    The media, at least this time, sold a harmless story and did not sponge on some blood.

    Water is an important symbol. In India, we have many such ‘miracles’ – water spouting from deities/shrines. People worship at water sources that are polluted. If only we had someone with a wet dream too, we’d save on petrol to visit these miracle sites!

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  • Farrukh
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:39AM

    are u people insane , this technology is 100% working and true but some facts u need to know guys , u can not run a car completely on water yet , but almost can save 70 to 75% of fuel cost ! , and we r Woking with a German company to launch a KIT IN pakistan ! , that will have a MRP of 30000 TO 35000 intalled in your car !

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  • Ahakeem
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:40AM

    While independent confirmation of claim of Mr waqar is essential, may share that gentleman has demonstrated water kit running the generator in a ktn tv program

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  • Aug 3, 2012 - 12:40AM

    Quite true ; sir . But let me add an optimistic , note . I appreciate the effort . For this is need of the hour . We need to explore and experiment the laws of science , for a ” Eurica ” situation in Pakistan . We need to discover new laws and implement the old ones . After all petroleum and gas are not the only source of power generation .

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  • Qurrat Hassan
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:41AM

    I never seen or heard Dr. Atta praising or encouraging talent or inventions in Pakistan. I dont want him to accept Engr. Waqar claim blindly. but at least he should initiate some sort of investigation and a technical inspection of what Mr. Waqar is doing.

    Mr. Atta used to opposed Dr Samar Mubark for his claims to generate Electircity from coal; is he the only right or educated person in Pakistan? every one else is fraud or wrong?Recommend

  • Mirza
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:43AM

    @Ali Iqbal: River Nile flows uphill

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  • Karim.Z
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:45AM

    People in Pakistan have a hard time grasping the concept of the theory of evolution but when it comes to a water car, most of them have no problem accepting it even though it contradicts a major law of Physics.

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  • shouvik mukherjee
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:45AM

    Indians are a little ahead. In mid-1990s there was this guy who claimed to create petrol from
    herbs by heating them. Of course, the herbs, the mixer and the pot were his.
    Politicians gave him land and what not. Some scientists also supported him. Other scientists
    who challenged him on the very same 2nd law of Thermodynamics were shouted down by the media, politicians, public, scientists and engineers supporting him and their ilk.
    So finally the gauntlet was thrown: He brings his “special” herbs and the rest will be given to him. Lets see if he can make petrol. Of course he refused. The reason was simple:
    He was using a glass tube mixer filled with petrol, sealed at the bottom with wax.
    As he heated his not so special herbs, the wax melted and the mixture now contained petrol.

    Con men getting attention by fooling others : that is all what this is about.

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  • F Khan
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:47AM

    I remember a decade ago a cheat in hyderabad discovered a medicine which could treat diabetes in 3 doses. My God what a event it was……half of pakistan gathered at the door of this noble laureate..begging for a dose of the miracle drug……just to know in 3 weeks the guy was a cheat……mabrook we have another one now in the name of agha weqar….all i can say to our beloved pakistani newton….tusi great ho….pura pakistan ko kam par laga diya hai….tusi great ho.

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  • Dr mohammad Mataro Hingorjo
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:48AM

    @Tanzeel:
    Well said sir
    Science is not absolute, its laws and principals are changing with time, it is the study based on Theories, hypothesis, experiments and observation, so nothing of science could be last world… a student of science cannot remain stuck to certain laws forever, but he/she should say yes to every thing and strive to prove it right/wrong on the basis of appropriate experiment, Newton’s basic laws were rejected by Einistine, because he was having an open mind and a thinking skull…… so let us welcome this experiment and try to support it not only criticize to relieve our inner frustration….Recommend

  • Mozart
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:49AM

    Thank you Dr. Pervez. What do you think of link text?

    The RF generator should use more energy than the energy produced by burning salt water.

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  • Iqbal
    Aug 3, 2012 - 12:50AM

    Pakistan Zindibad! We can to show US we r most innovating culture in world!

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