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The great India-Pakistan tamasha
Pakistani prosecutors should be enabled unfettered access to the prime witnesses & without accompanying minders.
The writer is a defence analyst who retired as an air vice-marshal in the Pakistan Air Force
I woke up to an irritating din of chanting grief on July 12, 2012, when this newspaper carried my article, titled, “The Parthasarathy doctrine”. By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names, had put up an orchestrated protest on the website of this publication finding fault with my not being aware of an Indian intelligence group, the NIA having met India’s witness of choice, David Headley (not Kasab, mind you). It meant zilch to the larger argument I was making in that article, but no, when you are orchestrated as a hired hand by a central authority, you do as you are ordained and conveniently overlook the niceties of any argument.
Seemingly, some sleuths from India visited Headley in April, 2011, which was then reported in The Hindu, in June, 2011, that I had missed taking note of. One, I don’t follow The Hindu; in fact, I don’t follow any Indian newspaper for their boringly similar reporting on Pakistan, which mirrors India’s official position. Heck, there are more Pakistanis fighting India’s cause in many more innovative ways than what the world’s largest democracy can put together in a resurgent progressive-liberalist mould. And two, India herself could only get to learn of the earth-breaking development two months later. By then, there were far more pressing things happening in Pakistan than to bother with a double, or a triple, agent, Headley.
Now to the more substantive, legal aspects of the Headley testimony: what is the value and health of the evidence that is gained when accompanied by the handlers of a witness, in their lair? Next, what value does handed-down evidence — one, which has not been directly acquired by the prosecution — hold? The Headley testimony was third-hand, since India handed the dossiers to Pakistan without having had any access to the witness. Is such evidence reliable enough to admit allegations of Pakistani state’s complicity — India’s pervasive gripe — when the witness is a proclaimed double agent? These are legal issues that need to be brought to the fore. India has balked at any attempt to flesh these out in a joint bid, instead hoping to dictate the process. As a consequence, we remain stagnated and stunted.
Mumbai was a horrible reality — the entire Pakistan has repeatedly come out loud on this — and the two players, Kasab and Ansari, are living proofs of it. In a very legal sense, they can lead us to others who connived to enact this monstrosity. Pakistani prosecutors should be enabled unfettered access to the prime witnesses and without accompanying minders please. With evidence — Kasab and Ansari — in India, convictions cannot take place in Pakistan. For convictions to take place, India will need to seriously shift modes from being confrontationist and prescriptive to being cooperative, if indeed closure is what India seeks.
But, does it? My postulation is she doesn’t. Cavalier playfulness instead rules the roost. Every evening the Indian media rises in a hate-Pakistan crescendo drowning out reason or logic to forge common ground. Those seeking peace are vilified and excommunicated (“Wagah candle-kissers”?). Track IIs put forth a constant set of people who remain too scared to venture beyond official refrain. The people of both nations wallow in the misrepresentative narratives that are happily left untreated in the name of popular public space, viciously setting forth degenerative entrenchment of resident animosity. The establishments on either side relish in this perpetual slander of the other in a most diabolic double-speak, even as they ostensibly work to cure what ails the relationship.
When Pakistan’s foreign secretary was en route to Delhi for a most crucial dialogue with his counterpart, it was Abu Jundal who dominated the airwaves, taking away any good that could be had from this interaction. India’s media, in cahoots with vested interests, preempts any possibility of progress with persistent vituperation aiming to defile Pakistan as a dysfunctional, terror-sponsoring nation in the eyes of the world; this, despite Pakistan paying in blood and treasure in this war on terror in proportions unmatched by any other country in the world. That does not bring closure any nearer in this India-Pakistan circus to the many ailments that bedevil this increasingly sickening relationship. The prognosis remains ominously dark under such trends.
The dialogue process continues without much success. If a few months back, there seemed to be progress on visa facilitation and Sir Creek, it now seems held back by India’s exploitatively evolving position on Siachen. Its silent but catastrophic impact is likely to seriously impair any progress in the foreseeable future, including progress attained till date on trade issues.
Bilateralism, the underlying approach to conflict-resolution between India and Pakistan as per the intent and design of the Simla Agreement, is increasingly losing relevance despite what US President Barack Obama indicated in his latest remarks. If bilateral engagement between the two remains as non-productive as it has in all these years, it is likely that Pakistan will go the route of international mediation, and it need not be through the US. If that is the route taken, expect water, Siachen, and Kashmir again before the world agencies as issues ready to threaten the uneasy peace. Pakistan had chosen to move beyond Kashmir, but the recent discovery of unmarked secret graves of thousands of Kashmiris is once again likely to figure as serious human rights violation needing immediate international attention. The debate on states sponsoring terrorism as a tool vis-a-vis states indulging directly in terrorism, as in the case of Syria and India, too, will heat up. Pakistan remains averse to India cherry-picking trade and visa facilitation, while rubbishing Pakistan’s priority on resolving Siachen and Sir Creek. There is an increasing likelihood that Pakistan will now pursue a packaged approach seeking simultaneous resolution of all four issues.
Without the necessary toleration to imagine two sides to a story, any story, India’s proclivity to prescribe and dictate resolutions to the vexing problems countervails the well-intended effort of the dialogue process. It may actually have regressed South Asia down the slippery slope to older paradigms.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 19th, 2012.
Reader Comments (230)
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Mumbai cannot be brushed off no matter how much you try. There are covert ways of getting justice, which India should have had the guts to evoke long ago. No worry, there is always time to begin anew. Special forces and Intelligence are not the sole forte of Pakistan Mr. Chaudhary. India can use them too.
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What do you mean by “about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names”? What exactly is a “Pakistani name”? Please stop perpetuating this lazy racism!
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The author raises some legitimate issues but blissfully ignores the pattern that the rest of the World seems to see — anytime the “establishment” is implicated Pakistan never does anything other than go through the motions. BTW how’s that Abbottabad Commission doing – nobody in India or the USA is getting in your way on that one are they?
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Brilliant article.
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Such an arrogant view from an author is surprisingly untasteful. A person who frets at comments, who is alarmed by hearing opposing viewpoints and comments, who openly ridicule readers as “paid handlers with pakistani name”, who clearly says that “I dont read Indian newspapers”, shows the mindset of a typical pakistani living in their own cocoon and world of their own vision. As a citizen I am hurt that today it is even difficult to comment on articles in pak newspapers with a different opinion! This author s by identifying person with their muslim names lost my respect, as with many other pak authors. Recommend
India knows they have laughable evidence which is why the don’t want this case to actually progress yet they want to continue taking cheap shots at Pakistan.
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Ha! Now we get to see the true establishment line and its sorry paranoia regarding all things Indian. By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names….. Sir – if you want to say muslim, say muslim. We are no longer in the 60s when Indian muslims were still ambivalent about their identity. ….but no, when you are orchestrated as a hired hand by a central authority…Amazing – you think that India needs to employ people to come onto ET and deliver their opinion? I don’t know whether to feel insulted, or amused or just plain sorry for you. My postulation is she doesn’t….. You are correct – India is fairly realistic when it comes to an assessment of Pakistan. We have no expectations of closure and there are enough data points now to support this hypothesis. ….it was Abu Jundal who dominated the airwaves, – yes, we should have asked Saudi Arabia to time his extradition in a manner more sensitive to Pakistan – a point you surprisingly omitted from this op-ed whose comments you are referring to. If bilateral engagement between the two remains as non-productive as it has in all these years, it is likely that Pakistan will go the route of international mediation…. Umm… international mediation requires participation of both parties, you may have missed that out. Pakistan had chosen to move beyond Kashmir… Can we take that as the official line? …but the recent discovery of unmarked secret graves of thousands of Kashmiris is once again likely to figure as serious human rights violation needing immediate international attention. The truth is that Pakistan does not let any opportunity go by; unfortunately, this also means that you don’t have any cards in reserve to play.
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@Hasan, his view is not arrogant, he has every right to ridicule bigoted indian trolls.
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“By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names”
Sir, are you aware that of the 1.2 bilion indians, 150 million are Muslim. So wat you may be calling a ‘Pakistani name’ may actually simply be an Indian Muslim?
Also is it so inconceivable to you that an actual Pakistani might disagree with you?
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Sorry man.. But there are muslims in India too with somewhat Pakistani types name and who don’t trust pakistan’s narration. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are too narrow minded.
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So the Indian media tries to highlight a rare coup by the Indian intelligence agencies as opposed to covering the regular foreign sec visits from across the border (which usually accomplish nothing) – and they are to blame beacuse predictably, the visit accomplished nothing?
So the author ignores the Indian media, because it is ‘biased’, and then goes on to write an article based on an inaccuracy (the Headley interrogation), and the Indian media is to blame for the author’s lack of homework?
So the Indian media is to blame for focussing on the duplicity of Pakistan, even though this fact has been acknowledged by many govts (US and NATO included), and Pakistan’s actions point in that direction, yet it is the Indian media that is to blame for it’s “persistent vituperation aiming to defile Pakistan’s image”?
Where was the feeling of mutual cooperation the author expects, when in the wake of the Mumbai incident, Indians were seeking access to Hafiz Syed and others?
I agree with the author on one point – enough of this “tamasha”. It’s time to get tough, and for once I agree with the Shiv Sena – cancel the cricket tour! Pakistan has run out of its share of goodwill!Recommend
And perhaps the biggest blunder – “…100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names…” – really! Perhaps the author forgets that there are as many if not more Muslims living on the Indian side of the border or does Pakistan have a copyright on Islamic names!
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If a few months back, there seemed to be progress on visa facilitation
To the best knowledge of the rest of us it was Pakistan who postponed it. But then Pakistanis , specially Military think tanks know all.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/182636-siachen-card-pak-puts-off-visa-agreement.html
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The article itself was great, but the points about India’s press and Pakistani press was hilarious. Great article!
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@gp65, yes I’m sure he knows many of indian trolls are muslims, what is your point?
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I am a Pakistani in USA and I rub shoulders with all – Indians, Pakistanis, Americans, Europeans and other Asians. Let me confess that 9 out of ten (nay, 19 out of 20) consider Pakistan shielding the real perpetrators of Mumbai attacks, namely the Jama’t i dawa…In Urdu they say. Sun to sahi, jahan meiN hai tera fasana kia, which means, Just try to listen to what others in the world say about you. Recommend
I will tell you a secret. Bashing Pakistan is my favorite passtime.
If “when you are orchestrated as a hired hand by a central authority, you do as you are ordained and conveniently overlook the niceties of any argument” were true, I wud be earning for what shud be my hobby.
What better way to earn a living than this?
Oh, how I wish.
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Now to the substance of your post: let us assume India hates us and wants Pakistan to disappear from the face of the earth. So what? Let us assume that Afghanistan also hates us to death. ‘So what?’ again. You and your khaki friends used the excuse of these unfriendly neighbors to turn Pakistan into a hollow shell over the past 54 years. If your neighbor is unfriendly, is that a good reason not to send your child to school? Is it a good reason to not take your ailing mother to the doctor? You have used the ‘external threat’ bogey to destroy education, health, justice, commerce, and all other pillars of Pakistan’s civil society. Look at Israel, it is surrounded on all sides by enemies. How many coups has Israel endured? What is the state of education and healthcare there? Moral of the story: the best defense against belligerent neighbors is a healthy, vibrant civil society that comes about only in a social welfare state, and never in a security state where military calls all the shots. Recommend
Indians are here in full force and predictably doing what is expected of them.
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@Anishurrahman:
so….being muslims made them non – indian? author never implied hindu or muslim. get rid of your narrow mindedness and learn to take note of the reality which the author has discussed. Like akistan, we also have our hawks in all walks of lives.denying this will not alter the truth.
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A sensible article…should not be taken as anti-india or pro-pakistan ….we have hawks and game-spoilers on both sides of the devide and should try to neutralize them for lasting peace in the region. Author has raised genuine points which must be taken seriously.
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Dear Chaudhry saheb, they say “selective truths” for justifying one’s own argument is a dangerous thing.
– You say “The Headley testimony was third-hand, since India handed the dossiers to Pakistan without having had any access to the witness”. We all know Headley gave testimony in Chicago court (BTW Chicago is a city in one of your biggest benefactor country, the US). Did our government made any effort to get first hand testimony from US to cross verify the claims. Did our ISI agents sat with FBI to get the true picture. We can make all kind of excuse, but unless we are sincere in our efforts of combating terrorism and eliminate our strategic assets we can’t go further.
– You say “it now seems held back by India’s exploitatively evolving position on Siachen”, India is already on position of advantage, why do we expect them to withdraw first.Why cant we ask our soldiers to take care of situation from the foot hills, what max they will achieve, come down till foothill where our soldiers can take care. All these rubish arguments of matching enemy hill by hill can only be objective in the mind of service-men/ex-service men like you. We need to change this paradigm if we want to see some change in our society.
– You say “Pakistan had chosen to move beyond Kashmir”, we did not chose we were forced to do so, when after Kargil India produced evidences after evidences to the international community that we are providing more then humanitarian & moral support to these fighters. Besides, if we have chosen to move beyond kashmir then why every second article in paper try to bring out the sympathy for the kashmir cause ?
– You say “Pakistan remains averse to India cherry-picking trade and visa facilitation, while rubbishing Pakistan’s priority on resolving Siachen and Sir Creek”, dear sir it was you who wrote previously (after mumbai attacks) if I remember correctly that India should not link such terrorism incidents with the talks. Each country has its own objectives and defined aganda, It is good that we are taking issues one by one. Trade and commerce was their cherry picks and sir creek & siachin ours. We somehow reached agreement on two of these issues, so why just blame them. We signed the dotted line too.
There are lot of other fine points in this article which makes very little sense logically,Recommend
@Author, We all, in India and Pakistan, need to understand that the Mumbai attack is something that cannot be brushed under the carpet. The people of India can clearly see that Pakistan has not done anything to bring the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks to justice. If Pakistan seriously wants to have good relations with us then they must do something on Mumbai attacks and assure us that that kind of heinous and audacious attack will never take place in the future. We just cannot forget Mumbai attacks and that makes it extremely difficult for us to normalize relations with Pakistan. Pakistani government and Pakistani people must come out denial mode. It’s high time.
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. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan and many Pakistanis have both parents born in India. There is no difference between their names in India and Pakistan. Our family members have names like Akbar, Saleem, Irfan, Yousuf, and Munaf to name a few. This is pure racism and an attempt to separate the families and divide Muslims. Recommend
Very well said it sir i agreed it to all and i will say sir champions of human rights and so called any world body even libral or ignorant muslims Rich countries peroples and leader including pakistan shurfah thieves and rich fuedal dont see whats going on in kashmir and in palestine since 1947/48 and if one say he is terrorist because he or she dont speak there anti muslim lang . forget it those problems in last fourty plus yerars more three millions muslims got killed allready please non muslims peoples considered them human atleast and specially indians brothers…….
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@Mahmood makes a brilliant point the constant noise that all of Pakistan’s neighbors are to blame for the pitiful way of life is a delay mechanism that seems to weave itself into the fabric of our society. Giving Israel is a great example do they have corruption flowing freely through their society they have a conservative religious group but do they participate in ethnic cleansing? Do the people involve themselves in keeping their neighborhoods safe and clean?
There is no pride among its citizens who take energy in keeping their living areas clean when was the last time people did a massive cleanup of their surrounding areas?
The mentality in Pakistan is get your cake and screw the rest not having nationalist pride is just a great sound bite for the masses so we all deserve the pathetic condition we wlive in we created it!
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By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names,
There is nothing called Pakistani name.
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@ Ali Tanoli..
Very well said it sir i agreed it to all and i will say sir champions of human rights and so called any world body even libral or ignorant muslims Rich countries peroples and leader including pakistan shurfah thieves and rich fuedal dont see whats going on in kashmir and in palestine since 1947/48 and if one say he is terrorist because he or she dont speak there anti muslim lang . forget it those problems in last fourty plus yerars more three millions muslims got killed allready please non muslims peoples considered them human atleast and specially indians brothers…….
What are you actually trying to say ???? Scratching my head ..!!
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@Shahzad Chaudhry, Can I tell you a secret? You’re too narrow-minded. You must not forget that there are more Muslims living in India than Pakistan. Thus if an Indian Muslim comments on your article, don’t assume that he or she’s an Indian Hindu posing as a Pakistani. How grotesque !
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your vocabulary is meant for a literary man and not a man, i mean a simple reader. take care.
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One, I don’t follow The Hindu; in fact, I don’t follow any Indian newspaper for their boringly similar reporting on Pakistan, which mirrors India’s official position.
I mean come on ..this is the official position of the world in general.
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India’s media, in cahoots with vested interests, preempts any possibility of progress with persistent vituperation aiming to defile Pakistan as a dysfunctional, terror-sponsoring nation in the eyes of the world;
Does Indian media really need to do that?
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@Shahzad Chaudhry, Are you sure that all Pakistanis agree with your point of view? Does it mean that if a Pakistani disagrees with you and comments on your article criticizing your approach, you’ll term him an Indian posing as a Pakistani?
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Pakistan had chosen to move beyond Kashmir, but the recent discovery of unmarked secret graves of thousands of Kashmiris is once again likely to figure as serious human rights violation needing immediate international attention.
Baluchistan needs a more immediate international attention than Kashmir.
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@ author:
**By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names**
Sir, get used to indians on pakistani site..the sooner the better…..already india has 120 million internet…..and you get so many comments from indians………….by 2020 indian internet penetration is to touch 600 million(mobile internet, which is of quite good speed in india, i myself use it)… so, the earlier tactic of fooling the public by propoganda won’t work….
follow darwins law, evolve yourself, work for the betterment of your countrymen, and you will not only earn accolades from pakistanis but indians as well..Recommend
@Cypher: “@gp65, yes I’m sure he knows many of indian trolls are muslims, what is your point?”
The author implied that all those who disagreed with him were Indian and if they had Muslim names then they must be Indians masquerading as Pakistanis.
My point is that Pakistan does not have a monopoly on Muslim names. Hence, how does he know that the person he thinks is an Indian supposedly masquerading with a Pakistani name is not in fact an Indian Muslim? My other point is that does he find it inconceivable that any Pakistani would disagree with him
By the way you can call us trolls all you like but as long as we are backing our arguments with facts and logic, we will continue to make the points that we think need to be made. I do encourage you to look up the definition of troll though.
ET- frequently when people specifcally attack me, my responses are screened out despite the fact that my comment meets all your comment guidelines.Recommend
The author says, “It meant zilch to the larger argument I was making in that article, but no, when you are orchestrated as a hired hand by a central authority, you do as you are ordained and conveniently overlook the niceties of any argument.”
Yes I had also commented on your previous article and I want to tell you, for your surprise, that I’m an ordinary Indian, not a hired hand of a central authority, as you alleged. Why don’t you get it Chaudhry Sahab that anger in India over Mumbai attacks is genuine and conspicuous on the face of every concerned Indian? And we are incensed that our government is not taking this matter seriously and not going after those guys who committed that horrible crime. On a lighter note I wish I could be hired by the RAW or IB though.
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author,
your status does not demand arogance and insultry behaviour towards readers of your article
on the basis of difference of opinions.and for your dismay there is a big class of pakistanis who is much sohisticated in its thoughts and will resist any wrong logic or hypocratic stand.i salute to ET for providing us such a gteat plate forum to take some breath
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“The dialogue process continues without much success. If a few months back, there seemed to be progress on visa facilitation and Sir Creek, it now seems held back by India’s exploitatively evolving position on Siachen”
India home secretary had gone to Pakistan ready to sign more liberal visa norms. It is Rehman Malik who chose not to sign. This was widely reported even in Pakistani media – not just Hindu. http://tribune.com.pk/story/384423/pakistan-india-talks-new-visa-regime-hits-last-minute-snag/
Also a meeting was scheduled to discus Sir Creek in May and it was potponed by Pakistan until such time as agreement could be reached on Siachen. These talks were held in on June 18-19 during which some progress was made Both the initial postponement by linking it with siachen by Pakistan and the eventual talk was reported in Pakistani media. http://www.lhrtimes.com/2012/06/19/pak-india-start-talks-on-sir-creek
The Pakistani ambassador to India Salman Bashir has said that there has been a sea change in the atmospherics of India Pakistan relationship. This is different from your assessment that Indian media isspewing hate preventing progress. This too was reported in Pakistani press. http://dawn.com/2012/07/16/sea-change-in-atmospherics-with-india-pak-envoy/
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Pakistani names?
Such as Kaalchakra and Antanu G both are -100% patented Pakistani names
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Lacks introspection…
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Reflexive relations and balance of power
India to Pakistan is what China is to India despite of belligerence of Pakistan.
Afghanistan to Pakistan is what Pakistan is to India.
India does not want do what Pakistan has been doing in India but India must do in Afghanistan what China has been doing in Pakistan.
This is called balance of terror and horror.
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Mr Shahzad Chaudhary:
i go with the name unbeliever, so i don’t think you are going to include me among those who COME WITH PAKISTANI NAME.. many many thanks for sparing me, and actually reading our cynical comments.
And seems like you have left the military but not the military code of conduct……so let me remind you sir, here, whether a person comes with indian or pakistani name, is to be ignored and the points raised by them be considered……your line of COMING WITH PAKISTANI NAME, was really uncalled for….
i hope you will apologize for your remarks, as pakistanis do not have copyright over muslim names… Recommend
Indian interlopers including confused indian muslims – can you stop whining about Bombay.
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Has Pakistan allowed Indian investigators or American investigators access to question and examine the 26/11 masterminds and leaders in Pakistan custody ?
No.
The reason, as Pak says is that there is no such treaty governing such acceess between India and Pakistan.
Thats exactly the same reason why Pakistani investigators were not allowed access to those in Indian custody. However, couple of years ago, India and Pakistan reached an agreement to allow judicial teams from each others countries to visit to record statements of judicial officials. Thats what India allowed Pakistan in the 26/11 case. Pakistan is yet to reciprocate that by allowing India to visit Adiala prison to record the statements of judicial officials involved in the case in Pakistan. India says, Pakistan already has a mountain of evidense with which it can prosecute and punish the 26/11 perpetrators, its leaders and handlers if it had the will and the intent to do so.
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@antanu g: “@Anishurrahman:
so….being muslims made them non – indian? author never implied hindu or muslim. get rid of your narrow mindedness and learn to take note of the reality which the author has discussed”
It is not Anishurrahman but the author who has implied that anyone with a Muslim name who criticized him must be an Indian pretending to be a Pakistani. In other words
– Pakistani could possibly criticize him
– There are no Muslim Indians
So yes there was narrow mindedness displayed ut it was displayed by the author.
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“when you are orchestrated as a hired hand by a central authority, you do as you are ordained and conveniently overlook the niceties of any argument”
How I wish I was a RAW agent paid to constantly belittle Pakistan on ET, alas I have to earn my money the hard way :(
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“including some with Pakistani names.”
Sir “if you cannot stand the heat get out of the kitchen,” I am appalled to note that you have such a low threshold to bear criticism . First of all there is not much intellect enhancing content in whatever you write apart from hate mongering through misinformation then what is the problem, if someone does not agree with your point of view and leaves a comment that does not make him or her an Indian or a lesser Pakistani. I am an American of Pakistani origin and my question to you. “What is it if I may know that distinguish Pakistani name from a Muslim’s name living in India or for that matter living in Timbuktu?”
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This article is shocking. The author is enraged at the many factual errors in his previous opinion piece. Most likely , he thinks I am one of those “Indian agents employed by a central agency”. The author had lost credibility in the last opinion piece. Today he lost respect.
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“One, I don’t follow The Hindu; in fact, I don’t follow any Indian newspaper for their boringly similar reporting on Pakistan, which mirrors India’s official position”
As a free man in a free country, you are entirely free to choose what you read. However if you plan to write an OpEd on indo-Pak relations, it might be helpful to do some research to at least check factual accuracy of what you are stating. Failure to do so affects your own credibility.
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@Author
I’m sorry but you decided to pass off an ill-researched article with a touch of bias in it to talk about some “Parthasarathy Doctrine”.
The Indians,with their sense of bravado,started bashing you and the fellow pakistani readers decided not to side by you because they knew that the article did have a few mistakes which cannot be hidden by voracious defending.
Now you come again with another article to comment about the previous article which undoubtedly will be met with a similar retaliation.
By the way,I did comment on your previous article.May I know in which basket did u place me? An indian or an indian posing as a Pakistani??
Depends on how much of Pakistanis loved to read Orwell’s worksRecommend
@Mirza.
“… There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan …”
This is a major talking point of almost all Indians of all stripes – they seem to be reading from the script.
At any rate my answer : So what !! They also happen to be the most resource-less and terrified citizens of Hindustan. Who are you kidding ?
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Great article. While dealing with Indian ruling elite, Pakistan should try to understand the mindset of Indian ruling elite. Pakistan must not forget that they are dealing with a world’s most notorious racist regime which has declared about 40% of their own population as untouchables (Dalits). India is a country which has something wrong with all its neighbors. India fought wars with Pakistan & China. Intervened in Sri Lanka & created Tamil Tigers. India created Mukti Bahni in East Pakistan & helped Bangladesh for independence but still there are continuous boarders clashes with Bangladesh Forces & people of Bangladesh are against India. The world’s only Hindu state Nepal always has problems with India. Indian ruling elite can cross every limit even in their own country weather it is the demolition of Akal Takht or Babri Mosque. Indian media is controlled by the big corporate houses and upper class elite.
So it is the policy of India to never talk about main issues such as Kashmir, water dispute etc.
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The arrogance of the uninformed writer is astounding, but true to form.
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“India’s media, in cahoots with vested interests, preempts any possibility of progress with persistent vituperation aiming to defile Pakistan as a dysfunctional, terror-sponsoring nation in the eyes of the world; this, despite Pakistan paying in blood and treasure in this war on terror in proportions unmatched by any other country in the world. “
So according to the author
– Iran accuses Pakistan of supporting Jundullah due to Indian media?
– China accuses Pakistan of supporting terrorism in Xinxiang province due to Indian media?
– US accuses Pakistan of supporting the Haqqani network due to Indian media?
– UK says that 70% of terrorist plots in UK have a Pakistani link due to Indian media?
By the way, it is true that Pakistan has spent blood and treasure going after TTP which is killing Pakistanis. Every country spends blood and treasure in dealing with internal insurgencies. India does so with Maoists, Sri Lanka did so against LTTE. However going after TTP does not mean it is serious about stopping terror export to the world.
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If the authors arguments were factually wrong the last time, they are more bizarre and incoherant today. Accusing critics to be Indians employed by a central agency has done great damage to the authors credibility.
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So my dear Author, instead of showing a little bit of dignity in accepting that you did not do enough research on the Headley and did not know that he was interviewed by India, you make arrogant comments on Indian Media and make it seem to be the worlds problem and you are not at fault!!!! If u need to be taken as a serious author you need to make sure that you know that what you write is facts and not something which suits you whims and hence pulled out from figment of your imagination!
And can you please dare to explain to the readers here what is a Pakistani Name? All of us are very eager to hear an answer from you. If you are not aware of what is going on in India (since u do not read Hindu or any Indain paper for that mater! (btw..I wonder if you would have read it if it was titled ‘Islam’) the Indian Muslim population is very much comparable to the Pakistaini population and Majority of them are hardcore patriots who would defend their motherland. And I have been reading couple of Pakistani News sites for a couple of years now and know that there are a small percentage of pakistanis who see the bigger picture and how folks like you try to create a boogey man out of India to further your own interests and they would also validly post coments on your articles when it does not make sense to them. And please please stop living in a fools land that its only Pakistan which owns the copyright on Islamic sounding names…!!
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Well written, Indians are learning from Americans and Israelis how to use their media. All thus drama, but we should play expose them better, I would say. Otherwise they will continue forever! But it will boomerang them as Pak is no Arab nor North Korean. We are a democracy, with flaws yet, but a strong nation. We just stay put on our national interest, and fight these foes intelligently. As for Kashmir, siachen etc we simply have to solve them in the hard way with the nabour. Pak zindabad.
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Latest Pakistan Tamasha
Taliban kill 14 Shia relatives in Orakzai
* Dead include three women, two 11-year-old boys, a three-year-old girl
Taliban say they ‘targeted them because they were Shias, they are enemies of Islam’
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The prime accused in the 26/11 case are
Lashker-e-Taiba operatives Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and Zarar Shah , who are in Pakistan custody.Mr Kasav, the 9 other accomplices that attacked Mumbai on 26/11, Mr Daood Geelani alias Mr Headley and mr Ansari etc are just foot soldiers in the conspiracy.
Pakistan can find out the minutest details of the 26/11 attack and conspiracy by interrogating the masterminds , Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi who was the military commander of the attack and Zarar Shah, who was the communication expert. There is no need for any judicial commission to go anywhere. Interestingly most commentators in Pakistan media, avoid any mention of this two masterminds.
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For convictions to take place, India will need to seriously shift modes from being confrontationist and prescriptive to being cooperative, if indeed closure is what India seeks.
Mr defence analyst, ISI planned the attack. Evidence is right there in Pakistan if some one tries to find it. ISI destroyed the control room from where terrorists were guided. Pakistan government provided terrorists with passport, ID catrds and overseas Pakisatni card.
Terrorist Jundal also told the story, how LeT men dressed in Indian army uniiform killed 35 Sikhs before Clinton’s visit to India and blamed Indian army for that.
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I admit that I am a RAW agent and get paid five rupees a word and also get a fifty rupees bonus on top if my remark is in the top three.
I also get another ten rupees if I use a Pakistani name. I often try and find Pakistani name of Arabic origin since some Pakistani readers like that.
What can I do, Mr. Chaudhry, I have a family to feed. People say this article of yours is rubbish but your tremendously erudite insight saw right thru my game.Recommend
@Vikram
“…For convictions to take place, India will need to seriously shift modes from being confrontationist and prescriptive to being cooperative, if indeed closure is what India seeks…”
We are right here – we will be waiting.
You folks are historically keen on verbal sparring. I would suggest you don’t deviate from your national character.
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terrible analysis by author, such bigotry and racism. he is only furthering mistrust and hatred between India and Pakistan.
However, Indians should have cooperated with our prosecution team and ALLOWED them access to all intel and prisoners upon the visit. Them not doing that completely invalidates the prosecution. I have lost so much respect for Indian policy because of that move because they have made it internationally and legally impossible to bring justice to those pathetic individuals that bombed Mumbai, the city of my ancestry (even though I am Pakistani).
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While india has allowed the Paki judicial commission to atleast visit India and record statements of judicial officials, Pakistan has not yet responded positively to Indian request to offer the exact same permission to Indian judicial team to go to Pakistan and record the statements of judicial officials involved in the 26/11 Adiala trial of Mr Lakhvi and Zarar Shah.
India should go ahead and expose Pakistan’s bluff even further by agreeing to let Pakistan cross examine Indian witnesses in exchange of India cross examining the witnesses and accused in 26/11 in Pakistan. That would give india access to interrogate LeT masterminds mr Lakhvi and Zarar Shah. I am sure, Pakistan would never agree to it but would help expose their position.
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@not-an-indian:
Can you stop whining about drone strikes and how the US, India , Israel are out to get you and wakeup to reality?
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Author earlier on Indian channel has said that India is milking Mumbai terror attack.He is callous and has no sensitivity to a crime against humanity.It is not India only which is blaming Pakistan but others also; read German Ambassador Michael Steiner statement “it did not matter whether the terror charges are proved in a court of law or not, but it was necessary that Pakistan clarify the “clear distinction” between its state institutions and terror outfit”http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-07-14/india/326744181abu-jundal-mumbai-terror-terror-attacks
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not-an-indian. We will stop whining about Mumbai, when pakistan stop whining about the 30000 deaths which itself is a propagated lie and the begging Pakistan does. We will stop whining about Mumbai, when true colours of Pak state is exposed and the culprits punished. Game for it ?
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Mr, Author you are trying to justify the unjustifiable. As I read it the other day. No amount of justification can support an inherently shoddy product. Product here is truth. Also read the other day. Sun, Moon & Truth cannot be hidden for too long…Recommend
India will not shake hands with a Fist.
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That too a duplicitous, deceitful, denying Fist.
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“The great India-Pakistan tamasha”
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Hos is that different from:
The great US-Pakistan tamasha
or
The great Afghanistan-Pakistan tamasha
The common factor being Paksitan!
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In the ultimate analysis, all Pakistanis think of Mumbai as some kind of “tamasha” that Indians deserved, ergo, expressions such as “milking Mumbai” are being used.
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@Aarvey : Bombay attack occurred in 2008 and yet you can’t get past it. Pretty lame.
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ET:
The previous OpEd the author is referring to has a total 88 comments many disagreeing with the author on actual facts and some differing with his conclusions. The author takes offense and writes a whole new OpEd in which he makes the following overt and covert accusations:
1) those disagreeing with him are paid to do so thereby questioning the integrity of pretty much all your readers
2) some of those that are criticizing him are Indian pretending to be Pakistanis. In doing so he demonstrates:
– racism by implying that there are no Muslims in India AND
– arrogance by assuming that no Pakistani could possibly disagree with him.
If you believe your readers need to be treated with respect then perhaps this gentleman needs to be coached to not show such blatant disrespect for your readers.
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@not-an-indian:
Indian interlopers including confused indian muslims – can you stop whining about Bombay.
Confused Indian Muslims? Like the relatives of one of those Indian Muslims who were killed at Victoria Terminus on 26/11?
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“India’s proclivity to prescribe and dictate resolutions to the vexing problems countervails the well-intended effort of the dialogue process. It may actually have regressed South Asia down the slippery slope to older paradigms.”
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And what about Pakistan’s proclivity re state and non state sponsored Terror?
Does that not regress South Asia down the slippery slope to older paradigms.?
In any case Pakistan’s credibility post OBL is sub zero!
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@Nadir: It’s not lazy racism. Go surf this site and any other Pakistani on line newspaper and you will them inundated with Pakistan obsessed Indians who have nothing better to do. The fact that you are here too is just another indication of this reality. The truth is that the author had some very legitimate and accurate points that you Indians wish to brush away. Rather than confront this reality, it is easier to play your games of posting nonsense under fake and phoney names.
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The author writes engagingly, but style is no substitute for substance ! Given Pakistan’s dismal record of jihadi-perpetuation, backstabbing, and deceit as a national pastime, no one needs another “has-been” tinsel analyst like Shahzad to mouth the Pak army’s propaganda.
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” Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the lame duck newbie whose tenure is tenuous and very temporary.”
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Quoted from another article in this newspaper.
So who should India negotiate with?
Well nobody till the elections are over and a new Govt has settled down ( if its settles down!) and what levers the establishment pulls on that new Govt.
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Portraying Pakistan as the epostlle of Peace
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hemmed in by non cooperation from india in prosecuting
the 26/11 case against the master minds ( both state and
non state).
This depiction is rather unrealistic and self serving and at least
the Indian reader is not so gullible as to fall for it.
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Was the author an officer in the Pakistan army who is always used to people bowing down to him and saying. “Yes sir!” ?
Instead of correcting the factual errors in his previous article, he seems to be abusing the people who gave him some “feedback”. Maybe even after leaving the army, he still expects people to bow down to him. Noooooo Sir! Ain’t going to happen. Maybe 10 years back when there was no widely prevalent mass communication technologies, he would have said whatever he wanted and nobody would have had the means to give him “feedback”. This is 2012. So that game won’t work anymore.
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@not-an-indian:
Muslims have been the president, VP, the richest men in India (Premji), top movie and money makers from Yousuf Khan to Shahrukh, to Salman to Amir, cricket captain, stars and the list goes on and on. Pathan Brothers who belong to a poor family would never be millionaire in Pakistan. I am not an authority on India by any means but this is what I can think at the top of my head.
Regards,
Mirza
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““By the time the day was out, about a 100 odd Indians of the 1.2 billion, including some with Pakistani names””
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I can sense smug pride in the author’s remark…as if he has scored a century in an India-Pak cricket match.
Also a desperation in reinventing himself as an expert on Indio-Pak relations from a mere Defense Anaylist.
If the author so indicates, all indians will stop commenting on his shallow writeups.
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The author has clearly touched a RAW nerve of Indians :)
Indians may hate him but the author should be congratulated for speaking the truth. When one sees hordes of these ‘Muslim’ names raking Pakistan over the coals, constantly making mountains of molehills, badmouthing the army and the majority, making bizarre accusations with hardly any respect for the duties a Pakistani should owe to Pakistan and to the greater brotherhood of Islam, one sees Indian trolls hard at work. I don’t know if they are paid or not, but Indians they are because they show every sign of unremitting hatred toward Pakistan. The author has got it exactly right – Muslim names cannot hide who these people are and what their ultimate agenda is.
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@Muhammad Shahid:
“Great article. While dealing with Indian ruling elite, Pakistan should try to understand the mindset of Indian ruling elite.”
Your mindset is very transparent for all to see. It doesn’t take much brain power to figure out your mindset.
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I did not know that this much ignorance is required to be air vice-marshal
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@mahmood: Well, the author may think of u as a phony indian with a pakistani name. He has two primary beliefs:
1. No Pakistani can ever disagree with him.
2. Indian do not have muslims who voice their opinion.
It is so ammusing that with so much bias inhis heart he call himself an “Analyst”. He sure does have a sense of irony!
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@not-an-indian: Can u please shoot yourself?
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Really ?
Why don’t you ask US to give you unfettered access to David Headley ? Did you try ? What was the result ?
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Given Indian thinking regarding Pakistan, the policy starts and ends with 26/11. If any of the Indians know it any different then they should write it down for me. Pakistan is a smaller country than India but Pakistan is not really a small country.
Indian policy as I see it is to maintain tense relations with Pakistan on one hand and follow America in their business and military projects around the globe.
Pakistan should build deeper relation with other countries on the move in west central Asia and forget about Indian peace talks. Let them come back to the table with some solid proposals and focus on domestic issues. Future will take care of itself.
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There is no question there is small army of arm-chair. paid or unpaid Indian fanatics whose job it is to recommend anti-PK comments by their fellow writers. Didn’t realize that Indians have bought into western-style propaganda so completely. I don’t expect anything original from them but you got to hand it to them – they are great at mimicry.
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@Muhammad Shahid:
who told u in india so called untouchable(sc) are 40% they are only 22% of total hindu epopulation .by the way muslim are not different than hindus in caste system .if hindus are bad than muslim are worst in caste system .specially south asian muslim.don’t fool us we know every thing about dark site about south asian islamic sociaty.
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@kaalchakra:
So u presume that Indian muslims are gaddar
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“Heck, there are more Pakistanis fighting India’s cause in many more innovative ways than what the world’s largest democracy can put together in a resurgent progressive-liberalist mould.” Most brilliantly put sir, could’nt agree more.
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@Mirza
This is not my right or ur duty. However, to clarify the likes of author, could you clarify if you are an Indian or a Pakistani and if you r a Pakistani, can you provide some believable proof.
Because if an educated person like the author can take someone like you for an Indian posing as a Pakistani or worse yet, a MUSLIM…what about all these ignorant commentators like Ali Tanoli, Kalachakra etc.
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Now about Indian media and your complain of media toeing same line. Reason is very simple Chaudhary saab. Indians are convinced beyond doubt that Pakistan is BAD GUY in every incidence where as Pakistani are not convinced that Pakistan is GOOD GUY in most incidences. Everyone including most rational Pakistani are convinced about Pakistani role in 26/11. Trust doesn’t com easy, you have scarifies to earn trust and not blackmail with protecting OSAMA BIN LADEN in backyard. Your article reflects establishment’s FIDAYANI mentality. Do this on our term OR ..( nuclear?).
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@not-an-indian: ““… There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan …”
This is a major talking point of almost all Indians of all stripes – they seem to be reading from the script.”
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The talking point is that the Indian muslims lead happier , more peaceful and prosperous lives than those in Pakistan. And their children don’t study in candle lights.
India made its muslim rocket scientist its President.
When Pakistan makes a Hindu its President , we can talk.
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” As a consequence, we remain stagnated and stunted.”
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The only statement of the author that i completely agree with.
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And all this while (and I have watched him on Indian TV too), I thought the AVM was evolving his views in the changed circumstances. I was wrong. He still doesn’t get it. On one of Arnab’s programs, I recall, he was going on about why India should forget Mumbai in the broader interest of the two countries etc. etc.. Maybe he should read the Hindu (of course, he does!), to get an idea of the depth of feeling of Indians (including Indian Muslims, 46 of whom were murdered at the Taj), before he starts accusing those who react to his bilge as GOI sponsored. I get the impression his handlers are a little concerned about what Abu Jundal is telling the Indians (and the world) and so the pre-emptive offensive.
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@Mirza: “Muslims have been the president, VP, the richest men in India (Premji), top movie and money makers from Yousuf Khan to Shahrukh, to Salman to Amir, cricket captain, stars and the list goes on and on. Pathan Brothers who belong to a poor family would never be millionaire in Pakistan.”
All true. Also Oscar winning music director (Rehman), 2 CJs have been Muslim, current CEC and Vice President of country are Muslim, Bharat Ratna awardees (which is the highest civilian honour in India) like Ustad Bismillah Khan.
While arranged marriages are obviously within own communities, there have been dozens of high profile Hindu Muslim marriages where Hindu men have married Muslim women and vice versa and public at large has not had any problem. Salman Khan and Saif Ali Khan by the way have Hindu mothers.
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“aiming to defile Pakistan as a dysfunctional, terror-sponsoring nation in the eyes of the world”
Isn’t that true?
“this, despite Pakistan paying in blood and treasure in this war on terror in proportions unmatched by any other country”
Whose fault is that?
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@not-an-indian:
Well said my man. There is no original thought with these Indian trolls. You can spot them from a mile away.
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Typical military mind set. The author believes that all those opposed to his views are connected with Indian interlligent agents using Pak names. I really feal pity for this thinking. He is not used to such type of criticism in Pakistan that is the problem with these type of Generals & Air Marshals who believes that either my way or high way
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@Anjum: ‘As for Kashmir, siachen etc we simply have to solve them in the hard way with the nabour.’
In the last 60+ years, how many inches of Kashmir or Siachen have conquered?”
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@Cosmo:
Wonderfully put
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FIRST & FOREMOST:
put your OWN house in order and then, write these emotionally charged words for great countries like INDIA & US !!!
Thanks
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@mr. righty rightist:
Thanks for being civil. Laa ilaha illal laho muhammad urrasool ullah. Al hamdo lillah, I am a born Pakistani and am fighting the terrorists and extremists who have waged a war against innocent citizens, minorities, smaller sects, women and all peace loving people of Pakistan. Personally if there is peace and progress in Pakistan it is not going to make a bit of difference for me. Or democracy and empowerment of poor masses is not going to help me personally. However, I am returning “mitti ka karaz”. I hope you could see the sincerity and spontaneity in my post. BTW, it does not make any difference whether I am Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, or Pathan, I try to be a good human being all the time.
Regards,
Mirza
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Overall the comments are more succint than the article.
The author should be commended for bringing out the best from his readers.
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@Sinclair:
Threats never work with Pakistani nation. Remember, India could not even bully Sri-Lanka.
Author should be congratulated for his excellent analysis of the Indian media’s continued anti-Pakistan drive, no doubt well-orchestrated by the Indian state, in order to cover-up its acts of terror in Kashmir.
Yes, players behind Mumbai’s terror drama should be thoroughly investigated (INDEPENDENTLY), and you may be surprised to find the real planners (Indian state actors) who are the real beneficiaries of this ugly event.Recommend
It is no longer a tamasha when for every 166 the response is 1660. Let us see how long you can take it.
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Chaudhry saheb,
If you don’t want to read desi-Indian newspapers, koi gal nahi.
Yeh lo-pardesi akhbar par lo.
The 2012 Globe-Scan Pole for the BBC says that Pakistan is the second most negatively rated country in the world.
http://www.globescan.com/commentary-and-analysis/press-releases/press-releases-2012/186-views-of-europe-slide-sharply-in-global-poll-while-views-of-china-improve.html
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You would want the world to believe that pakistan is doing everything it can to root out terrorism and as a victim itself you cannot doubt it’s sincerity in this issue. Pakistanis like yourselves feeling pained about Mumbai is not enough you should be embarrassed that your land is the sanctuary for these kind of acts. I think all of us will know to applaud a good gesture, unfortunately that is still missing.
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@rehmat:
Thank you sir for supporting and amplifying my argument. I am sorry being a Pakistani I do not have as much knowledge about India as I should have. I have visited India several times on business and social trips and I enjoyed the common desi culture and food very much.
Cheers,
Mirza
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Sir, I am a US national of Pakistani origin who very regularly follows ET & would like to inform you that your articles does not make any sense except following establishment policy. Bombay attack was wrong & unfortunately its leads to Pakistan. Please stop following the establishment policy instead write something which you frankly & honestly feel is correct, fair & good for Pakistan.
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With Air Vice Marshals like you Pakistan does not requires India to disintegrate Pakistan
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Wow, Indian newspaper websites must be truly terrible for half of India to turn up on this article and have a whinge.
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Pakistan played tamasha with USA by closing the land route. Does anyone know the final out come of this tamasha?
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@Shahzad Choudhary
Only One question : Define Pakistani name. Can you?
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I wish I am also paid from IB or RAW as I know much about Pakistani mindset after reading news from nation , thenews.com, Tribune and dawn ..But sad I am typing as a humanist when ever I feel I need to educate pakistani about their stupid analysis like this one demanded.
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@Mirza: “I have visited India several times on business and social trips and I enjoyed the common desi culture and food very much.”
I know that Indian home secretary had gone to Pakistan with vis liberalization proposal ready to sign but Rehman Malik has delayed it. If better sense prevails, hopefully, we Indians can once again welcome you to once again taste our Indian hospitality. Kasab and gang did not come with visas anyway…
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@Caramelized_Onion:
The kind of article can only provoke this kind of response. Let us see what original thought you have propagated other than this oneliner.
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I read your article the moment it was put on the Internet but abstained from commenting. Now I can verify, after reading all the comments in this op-ed and the previous one you based this article on, that each and every word you said is true.
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Let me tell it to in simple words: People like you, are going to pull your country down, are going to wreck the lives of millions of your countrymen most of whom am sure are only looking for a normal life like any one else.
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@caramelized onion who writes “Wow, Indian newspaper websites must be truly terrible for half of India to turn up on this article and have a whinge.”
Don’t worry. we are a billion plus. We are here, there, everywhere.
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” I don’t follow The Hindu; in fact, I don’t follow any Indian newspaper for their boringly similar reporting on Pakistan,”
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Very interesting.
If you dont follow any Indian paper then how are do you know that they have ‘boringly similar reporting on Pakistan’ ?
Very curious Air Marshall!
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And hence withfolds the great indian tamasha as clearly titled by the author. The “Great” Indians should rise up from the usual, useless banter and look at substance in the larger sense. How about using this energy for substantial feedback, i guess it really has hit home.
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@Lala Gee: Lala Gee you claim not to have read the article but you can vouch that every word is true.
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Obviously you are a Pakistani posturing to be a Pakistani.
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I had great respect for the Air Vice marshall. However the column on “Parthasarthy Doctrine” was a ridiculous and outlandish piece of fiction. And this column is even worse.
Besides,India does not need trade with pakistan, it benefits pakistan more. So pakistan thinking that its “packaged” deal will treaten India, is as outlandish as can be.
India does not portray pakistan as a failed state. The entire world does so.
Besides, pakistanis are so obseesed by kashmir, that any article or incident in kashmir overwhelms them, whereas they are least bothered about karachi killings on daily basis( far more than those who die in kashmir), nor are pakistanis bothered about their daily bombings.
People asking india to ‘Move on” from Mumbai, must realise that it will never happen till the culprits are punished. Pakistan may move on after criminal acts, but in a country which has a rule of law, India does not just” move on”
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@GetwiththeMojo: The title is clearly not ‘great indian tamasha’…its ‘the great india-pakistan tamasha’
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Pls get your eyes tested.
How can you deprive Pakistan of its credit?
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The opinion of Shahzad Chaudhary with regard to India is a bit too radical which is well understood considering the past wherein Indo-Pak ties had been not very cordial. As a soldier from Pakistan his direct experience during the Indo-Pak military conflicts is yet another reason for his antipathy towards India. Although there has been a considerable India-Pakistan tamasha wherein the dialogues and meeting held have so far have not be conclusive with regard to resolution of outstanding issues between the two nations nevertheless military conflicts to a considerable extent have been averted since 1971. In addition diplomatic relations between the two neighbours have continued since 1979 with off course periodic upheavals. The writer unfortunately has squarely blamed India and India alone for not resolving the outstanding bilateral issues while the truth is that both the sides have not been able to come up with a clear and well defined policy pertaining to resolution of outstanding issues. The Sir Creek and Siachen are issues of equal importance for India as much they are for Pakistan hence a comprehensive solution is needed that is acceptable to both the countries. Shahzad Chaudhary has probably been perceiving the issue from a purely defence perspective as a soldier hence has probably overlooked the other related aspects of issues related to Indo-Pak relations. Belittling economic ties may not be the prudent approach as the economy of Pakistan necessarily has to come out of the economic problems it is passing through and increased commercial relations with India will be of great help. Secondly employment in Pakistan will be generated thus creating an environment that can check terrorism and religious fundamentalism in the country. The need of the hour is to create trust and amity between the two neighbours and an environment more cogenial.
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@mr. righty rightist
“…Don’t worry. we are a billion plus. We are here, there, everywhere…”
So are the cockroaches ! They can be seen scurrying around in unwanted places.
Indians, get over your Bombay obsession. You are no USA that we coddle you in your juvenile, illogical and vindictive narrative. We will wait till you begin to deal with us like adults.
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Dear Writer,
I comment on ET occassionally. I find it more open and vibrant then its Indian counterparts. My name is name of the most brilliant mathametician who was born in Bharat when Pakistan was part of Bharat. By this linkage, if you want to call my name as a Pakistani name, be my guest.
However, I thought my name should/would not have had any bearings on how author receives my comments. And we should not be left defending our name and backgrounds. Time for you to be the real MAN and say sorry for the goof up (I guess sit is goof up and not a reflection of your true self?).
With regards to Mumbai, if this is what general Pakistani attitude is, the you can keep you Cricket team in Pakistan pls Sir.
With regards to graves in Kashmir, Pls first give justice to such graves in Balochistan first Sir!
FYI and record, I am actually Birtish.Recommend
@not-an-indian:
“..can you stop whining about Mumbai?’
Never.
World’s most-wanted Nazi held at 97…after 67 years. World never forgets mass murderers, except in pakistan., where mass killings as business as usual.
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The author cherry picks the lens that suits the Pakistani establishment the best and coerces the world to look at Pakistan through the same lens. The world is not going to fall pray to this tactics. Even the Saudis and Chinese nowadays have become clever and are refusing to believe this 3D illusion. Indian stand on Siachen will not change just because Pakistan is making some virtue out of its necessity. For India, Mumbai will remain the core issue as it was a surgical strike carried out by Pakistan using its non state actors, till however is proven otherwise by Pakistan by bringing culprits to book. The very purpose of this article is to take focus away from Pakistan’s culpability and put the onus instead on India. India will always do what suits it best and will not agree for issues cherry picked by Pakistan to discuss. Let “normalization of relationship” with India be not a Pakistan’s charity and the curtain puller on bringing to justice handlers of Hedley, Kasab and Jundal back home in Pakistan.
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India Pakistan relationship is akin to going round and round the mulberry bush. Pakistan is threatened by terrorism from home soil, not some distant land. To fudge this fact and believe that it will disappear once NATO leaves Afghanistan, fools nobody. India is threatened by State sponsored terrorism from across its border – via various proxies To dream that India will normalize relations without bringing the perpetrators of terror to Justice is delusional. India will keep talking whilst simultaneously strengthening its Economy and Military machine, forcing Pakistan to increase its Defense budget and finally go bankrupt.
India showed restraint after 26/11 because it was persuaded by its global interlocutors. Another attack means an official crowning as a “state sponsor of terrorism”. The time for scheming and thinking has gone and the time to act has come, if the 50% of the country left is to be saved.
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@Muhammad Shahid:
.
You stated : “The world’s only Hindu state Nepal always has problems with India.”
.
As per the usual norms of our “Highly Intelligent Pakistani Brethren” you couldn’t be more WRONG!
.
Sir Ji, Although there are OVER FIFTY MUSLIM COUNTRIES there are NO HINDU COUNTRIES as NEPAL is a SECULAR REPUBLIC!
.
Cheers
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Forget the raw-paid trolls – what about investigating the control room in Karachi – surely there will be others in pakistan who will corroborate the existence of the control room. The men set sail from karachi, they trained in safe houses – there were more than 10 men – surely these characters can be rounded up – the indian dossiers can only be used as a basis for all-important investigation in Pakistan that will stand up in a pakistan court of law – you dont expect to grill indian investigators to get to the bottom of what the LET leader was doing on the evening of 26/11?
Calling it a tamasha makes mockery of your sentiment that you sympathise with the victims of 26/11
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@mahmood,
100% perfect reply.
I am 100% sure you love Pakistan More than the author.
Keep it up, You will always be succesfull and protected by Alah.
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@GetwiththeMojo, On 26/11 current development between India and Pakistan ,the Great Airmarshall leaped forward to attack without much research and civilian Indians have done a pincer movement trapping the author.
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Oh yeah, by the way…I am eagerly waiting to see pakistan taking issue to International community…..probably you guys need daily reminder that you are worthless and useless…:D :D
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Just read the first article by author and I was appalled by the level of insensitivity. ‘Milking the Mumbai 26/11′ I mean really.. what were you thinking Mr. Author. We are not going to forget Mumbai in a hurry, we can assure you.
The fact of the matter is that India has been all along soft with Pakistan,right from 1971. The sad part is that such stuff is not coming from Madarsa educated mullah but english speaking elite Pakistani and you wonder if there is any difference between them. Perhaps as someone said Mr. Parthasarthy is right after all.
P.S : Believe me i do not work for IB or RAW (I wish though they were more efficient though)
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pakistanis dont know Voice samples are a great proof but poor pakistanis say they dont blv voice samples what a bunch of foolish pakistanis …20 yrs behind IndiaRecommend
Observation for my Pakistani friends.. they will just say ‘Indian trolls will be here in full force’ , ‘our Indian friends will not like the the article and they will just put nonsense comments’, but none of our Pakistani friends or authors can actually answer or rebut the points raised by my Indians!!
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And presuming Pakistan wants Indians to move on from Mumbai issue – Here is asking you MR. Chaudhry – WHY DON’T YOU MOVE ON FROM KASHMIR ISSUE? IT IS EVEN OLDER.
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One of the more frequent arguments made by Pakistanis, from President Zardari to Shahzad Chaudhry and every one in between, is that, since they themselves are the biggest sufferers of terrorism, their dedication to fighting terrorism should not be doubted.
Could it be that so many Pakistanis are dying because of complicity compounded by incompetence (wrapped in duplicity) in fighting terrorism ?
If you had made a sincere effort, the entire world would have fought along with you, and every one would be better off.
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Does Author still has any answers about why Pakistan is not giving voice samples to India or to neutral country, why it has not talked to David headley in US ?? and there are many more… Is it really sincere Mr Author?
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You are very funny Mr. Shahzad Chaudhry. At the same time, a champion of contradictions. On one hand, you accuse the Indian media, political class and even the general populace of treading a ‘misguided, ill-aligned and prejudiced’ path, while engaging yourself in support of an argument that’s driven solely by turning a blind eye towards the fact that it takes two to tango. So, an article that promised much with a headline ‘India-pakistan tamasha’ turned out to be an eyewash. A highly colorful language with generous usage of extremely colloquial fillers could only get you so far. I suggest you pull those glasses up and try to see things with a better clarity and understanding (For the uninitiated: Pun intended).Recommend
Dear Author
You continue to hold you views despite acknowledging that they were based on rather selective facts. Offense is the best defence – seems to be your policy. Your article is exactly similar to the articles you wish to criticise.
I do not wish to state that all the views from India are right or that from Pakistan are biased. Approriate and well founded criticsm of Indian policies should always be welcome. Your shallow views masquerading as intellectual arguments are not. The best thing you could do to maintain any credibility is to reflect and , if possible, share the reflection. If you come to a different conclusion than what you have now would be a sign of strength than weakness.
You state that that Pakistan’s foreign secretary was en route to Delhi for a most crucial dialogue with his counterpart when India tried to sabotage it by hitting the airwaves; you conveniently ignore that the Pakistani delegation first met with the separatists in Kashmir before meeting the Indian delegation.
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@GetwiththeMojo
The “Great” Indians should rise up from the usual, useless banter and look at substance in the larger sense. How about using this energy for substantial feedback, i guess it really has hit home.
And Pray, What precisely is the ‘substance in the larger sense’ in this article? Let me guess
A. Hedley’s account is insufficient for prosecution?
Yes, it is. It needs corroboration and the facts and places and people named by Hedley are in Pakistan. Has Pakistan set up an investigation team and offered to collaborate with the FBI on this? NO, but it will go on whining about how Hedley’s statements are uncorroborated.
B. When Pakistan’s foreign secretary was en route to Delhi for a most crucial dialogue with his counterpart, it was Abu Jundal who dominated the airwaves, taking away any good that could be had from this interaction.
Really? Did Abu Jundal say that the Visa agreement can not be signed? It was reported differently in even Pakistani newspapers.
C.Pakistan remains averse to India cherry-picking trade and visa facilitation, while rubbishing Pakistan’s priority on resolving Siachen and Sir Creek.
So Indian talks of trade and people to people contact is CHERRY PICKING and Pakistani AVERSION to it is justified. But asking India to forget Mumbai is somehow the opposite of cherry picking? GREAT, simply astounding.
And on Siachen, what could be simpler than just acknowledging the Actual Ground Position and then moving back? But no that is MANGO PICKING?
Did I overlook any of the ‘substance in the larger sense’?
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Could the Indian insecurity be any more obvious than it is reflected in the comments above? I being an Indian am embarrassed today by what my fellow indians have decided to decipher from the author’s article today. Why has the main content been ignored and decidedly misconstrued? Lets look at the positives of what the author is trying to convey and be open minded enough to realise that both the nations have to work together to meet challenges!
Lets get out of the petty discussion. And look at the bigger picture!!!!!!!!
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