Sethi says Kayani to visit US; army denies
An awkward disconnect between civil and military authorities came to light on Monday, in relation to planned meetings in the US, with whom relations are just beginning to thaw.
Moments after Defence Secretary Nargis Sethi announced that the army chief General Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani would visit the US as part of the strategic dialogue, military sources rubbished the defence secretary’s claim.
Talking to the media after attending a meeting of the Senate’s Standing Committee on Defence, Sethi revealed that, even though the exact details of the army chief’s visit had yet to be finalised, a tentative agenda was being prepared in consultation with all the concerned ministries. However, military sources requesting anonymity, denied the report, saying Gen. Kayani had no plan to participate in the strategic dialogue in Washington.
In addition, Sethi said that two Memorandums of Understanding (MoU) will be signed between the US and Pakistan, including one on the Nato supply routes, during the strategic dialogue, adding that the ministry of defence had been given authorisation to sign the MoUs.
Anti-Terrorism Act
In a bid to make anti-terrorism laws punitive enough to tackle terrorists, the ministry of defence, in collaboration with all the stakeholders, is preparing a draft to amend the Anti-Terrorism Act, Sethi said, adding that the draft would soon be presented in parliament and its concerned committees on defence and law.
Responding to a question, Sethi said was unaware of the release schedule of Coalition Support Fund (CSF) payments, but was hopeful that it would released soon after the resumption of bilateral ties between the US and Pakistan.
However, sources in the defence ministry said, “A legal deal to shape cooperation in the war against terror is on top of the agenda for the strategic dialogue, but the army chief would take up the issue of CSF forcefully, with the Americans subjecting it to further cooperation from the Pakistani side.”
Earlier, Senate’s Standing Committee on Defence met to discuss a range of issues pertaining to national security, strengthening civil and military relations and regional security.
Chairman of the committee Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed unveiled the future plan of action of the committee and said it would hold meetings with the three services of the armed forces to develop a national counter-terror strategy.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 17th, 2012.
COMMENTS (69)
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@Khalild Mahmood: "As long as the Government remains incompetent the Army would continue to have its say." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And the Govt.'s performance appraisal will only be done by the Army:)!
@gp65:You have said "Military strategy can and should be discussed with defence minister. Generals would be in charge if there was an actual war. This is how it would be in most places in the world. Pakistan is unique of course." Sir, Generals are never in charge of a war; they are in-charge of battles. Wars are waged by countries to achieve their political aims and In charge of a war is the civil head of the state and not generals. Generals fight battles to achieve the task laid by the civil governments all over the world. American army is fighting in Afghanistan on directions of President Obama.
@ Every One @ Vinod,
One Indian made us down in a minute as he is right.
@Shah: Oh sorry. I did not know that you are talking about the internal security operations generally carried out by para military. I thought you were talking about some victory of your army on international front. Sorry again
@Shah:
Dear Shah jee, let me clarify again that we are commenting on visible & weighable professional achievements gained by our general in last 2 decades. What are the criteria to judge the performance of any professional institution? Outcome & progress may be! The only visible progress which we have witnessed is disgusting and maneuvering the political system?
I have highest regards for Shohadas and soldier as mentioned in my earliest post. Your baseless appreciation for generals without reasons is quite childish and entirely personal.
To conclude the argument let’s not be personal and be rational in approach, please analysis rest of the comments especially @ Mr. Mirza and more. Regards,
@Zafar Sultan: We do not dislike the poor soldiers on the frontlines. We have hired the huge army officers to protect the people but they have been hosting terrorists like OBL in army bases. They have committed atrocities against their own citizens and the worst surrender in human history when they lost more than half of the country under martial law dictator. We do not approve political army which starts the fiasco at Kargil and embarrass the country causing thousands of deaths of poor soldier. We do not approve of their killing nationalist leaders and elected leaders, throwing judges and their families in detention, mutilation of constitution, committing acts of high treason and the list goes on and on. The term "services" which is used for armies of the world is not true for the huge number of army officers in Pakistan. They do not serve the nation and anything except big bullies. Regards, Mirza
@John Waltz:
Interesting comment.
Sethi expose under the secrete policy for fusing propganda of care taker government. In the name of democracy corruption promoted and potected. Saad Shibli
@Lala Gee: "The generals tried and failed. Were not these the responsibilities of the elected government in the first place? What efforts did the civil government make, if any, and how successful were they.?"
I think we all know who controls foreign policy in Pakistan. Now does abandoning foreign policy to army speak highly of civilians? Surely not. I wasn't praising them either. But simply responding to Usman who said that Kayani and Pasha had done a wonderful job of negotiating with the Americans.
@Shah: "@USMAN786: you have really no idea how things work…why will a political leader go and discuss military strageties"
Military strategy can and should be discussed with defence minister. Generals would be in charge if there was an actual war. This is how it would be in most places in the world. Pakistan is unique ofcourse.
@Khan:
sir jee very funny comparing Italian mafia boss with our mafia boss...Italian had enough ego to resign under pressure..our prime minister was sitting in the court..OUR prime minsiter was DECLARED by the court tht he is no longer the PM...there is still a difference...and thtz wht counts..
@VINOD:
the war in which our own people strapped jackets and kill their pakistani counterparts..the war where we see bloodshed every day as our people have been bought by foreign power...the war where we as Pakistan lost the part of swat and had to win it back..the war where our own people elected CHEAP CURRUPTED politicians again...this war im talking about...
@Hadia Malik:
Buisness deals of DHA .nice one...do you that every General came up from the rank of cadet ..he goes through crp in his life and after around 20 years of service he becomes a General.....just for your information
@Rana:
Wars???? you mean the war which Pakistan fought in Swat...or the war we had to fight in Afghanistan or the war which we are trying our best to fight in Kashmir...Rana sahib non of the neighbours are happy with India...its only Pakistan which challanges their ego every time....
Rana jee..people like you are afraid to go front in front with India and you want to go face up against USA....yeah right...even China after soo much struggle is around 30 years back against US in their military technology...but lets leave this discussion because I know you hate Army and I know wht ever any one can do it wont change your mind..because for you a dead solider is not worth it...and Generals are born generals....wht a funny thinking...
@Rana:
ANd Mr. Rana shahib how can you say that Generals are Buissnessman. Use your sense, you dont become a General by bargaining for votes you become General by getting promoted. Mr. Rana every General was once a major and carried out combat situation etc depending on his position. So rather than showing baseless arguments start using your upstairs....
@Khan:
Nice reply!
ministry of defence had been given authorisation to sign the MoUs." By Who? Army or Civi?
@Lala Gee:
Like what? keeping India out of another country? NO Sir, I guess civilians are more intelligent or less myopic than the Yes Sirs .. That is non of our business .. not every one is obsessed or conspiracy theorist. These general need to come of their delusional world.
Really? As far as I know just recently Mr Berlusconi was PM of Italy, probably much more infamous person than Mr Zardari but their Generals didn't intervene. In all those countries army reports and obeys civilians governments and do not dare to overthrow a government which has got millions and millions of votes, instead they let people decide the fate of such people in next elections. Only if democracy was left to flourish for full 65 years, people of this country would get mature enough to vote out such parties and will start accountability via elections.
Please read what you just said .. So are you saying He is the deal broker between crooks? doesn't that make him even more guilty as he was saving his Boss and gave us such corrupt people who were otherwise outside the country?
Mr Mirza and so called Jibran, why on earth U so much disliked Army and support corrupt of the corrupts. Of course my comments may not be published or subjected to moderation,as always
@ Usman,
Equal terms with Americans whose society brings up a system of leadership and that too with Paksitani Generals who are brought up in the business deals of DHA's. Where do you live brother?
@Shah:
Moreover, please mention a WAR and its outcome as well? Don’t make us sick by naming it as a WAR against terrorism!
@Lala Gee: The Civilian Govt represents the will of the people...they fought the elections. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Generals are self appointed thekedaars...only authority no responsibility.
@Lala Gee:
Excellent comments....atleast some one understands..
@Shah:
My comments contain some questions, which remain unanswered even in your senseless reply. Could you name any of a Brave Generals with respect to his professionalism? Generals are supposed to be worriers not business executives!
@jibran:
who voted PPP and made Zardari our PRESIDENT..we ..dont blame others for your stupidity...
@Shah: Shah Sahib which war you are talking about????
You guys need to remember, he is the one who negotiated NRO deal on behalf of Mussharaf with Benazir. He knows the real worth and weight of the people he is dealing with.
@gp65:
*"I do not believe they have succeeded in getting a nuclear deal for Pakistan either.They tried to push US to lean on India on Kashmir but that did not work out. They tried to push US to keep India out of Afghanistan and did not succeed there either.They tried charging inflated CSF bills but did not succeed there either
The generals tried and failed. Were not these the responsibilities of the elected government in the first place? What efforts did the civil government make, if any, and how successful were they.?
@Mirza:
"In most other countries nobody knows even their names let alone their daily sermons."
Totally true. Also in those countries convicts of graft money laundering are not elected as presidents and oligarchs do not rule the country in the cover of democracy. Ah! strange country, strange people - voting and supporting crooks and criminals.
In Pakistan everyone is autonomous and has very little regard for others. Every Pakistani thinks he knows the best about Pakistani interests and he is the one who represents Pakistan. Even a judge from lowest court thinks he can dismiss the Prime Minister of Pakistan. A Qadri thinks he can dispense justice by killing the very person who he is supposed to protect. This news item simply confirms that the defense ministry in Pakistan should be abolished as it has no role. Army does not recognize defense ministry.
Who was negotiating NRO in Dubai for Musharraf? Who enforced the November 2007 emergency for the last dictator? Who was negotiating the release of Raymond Davis? Whose brother is using his name for setting up a business empire for him using his clout? Seems like the patriotic general is not that patriotic! Just an illusion.
Why give so much importance to this man? Who is heading the organization that hardly wins any war. I wish this nation generation can see fighting capabilities of this institution when we face another war with India or US. In simple ambush against militants, they lose 10 to 8 men, such as the level of professionalism of this scared institution.
Nargis Sethi should have avoided this mess and should have first consulted Kayani. Why is she so incompetent and so why has she been retained in that sensitive post? Is Pakistan so short on competent officials?
@Rana:
You have no idea how a war is fought.....A Brave soldier and a brave general wins the war...but its not an easy concept to swallow..or even to understand
Regardless what their intentions are America will NOT, and is not in support of Military Coup in Pakistan, as is not likely to help the US achieve its objectives (Just my opinion) Military Coup will only destabilize the whole region, and America is well aware of it. I say Gen, Keyani‘s trip… it’s all about to protect its supply lines to Afghanistan!. (Take it or leave it, Gen.K. ) And yes, I. Khan is going to be the next “democratically” elected President or the prime Minister of Pakistan….. (Just my opinion)
Can you trust the news channels?
everyone should commit suicide. lets enjoy our life there in heaven than smoking here in earth.
Civilian leadership is just a puppet.. I don't think even IK could manage/control them..
@SAM:
when will the civil government start taking steps where Pakistans Integrity comes first.....
@USMAN786:
you have really no idea how things work...why will a political leader go and discuss military strageties...its like Marketing person is discussing a plane how to make a new aircraft rather than Engineers...yes they do take care of the bills but NOT THE DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT PHASE
@Usman: so true..
Salute to our brave Soldiers!!! Can anyone mention a single pride worthy task taken place during the past 2 decades by Generals? These guys are consuming our resources as well as pride!
Kayani doesn't report to Defence Minister, its the other way around. So next time ISPR will announce on behalf of Kayani "Defence minister is supposed to travel to Lahore Cantt and Malir cantt"
Well what else to expect from kayani when you consider that he was the right hand of Musharaf regime.
@Usman: "@gp65: What have you been smoking? I want it too. Take me to lala-land with you :)"
Please point out anything I stated which was factually incorrect.
ET: I am surprised you allow ad hominem attacks like this which are unsupported by either logic or data.
Why Nargis Sethi and the other Pakistani leaders are insisting on and coercing COAS to visit USA? What are their inner intentions????
@Usman Leaders? They are paid servants of the state, just like any other sarkari officer. genius
@Usman @gp65 , IF you want to counter her view , use each of her points and raise your view rather than lame rebuttal which shows you tend to agree but cant accept the truth.
After a long service, NS doesn't know who are the actual rulers?
@gp65: What have you been smoking? I want it too. Take me to lala-land with you :)
IK does not have a chance to come to power. Before the elections, there will be an army takeover. Some reason will develop. Safety of Pakistan being paramount. These are indeed difficult times. With IK in power, everybody in gaddi is going to be slapped with IT notices and inquiries.
Nobody can predict "don's" next move.
@Usman: "Gen. Kayani and Gen. Pasha on record are the only two leaders who have been able to negotiate with the Americans on equal terms in the past"
Please quote some examples. These superb negotiating skills were certainly not in evidence in the most recent agreement with US to open the GLOC or in the Raymond Davis case last year. I do not believe they have succeeded in getting a nuclear deal for Pakistan either.They tried to push US to lean on India on Kashmir but that did not work out. They tried to push US to keep India out of Afghanistan and did not succeed there either.They tried charging inflated CSF bills but did not succeed there either - as against 3 billion claims by Pakistani army, US has agreed to give only 1.2 billion.
@SAM: When will the nation learn from its past mistakes and stop electing the same two parties again and again in power who cannot stand up to the military?
As long as the Government remains incompetent the Army would continue to have its say.
Bon Voyage General Saheb.
This remind me of the saying . Don't believe the news untill it's officially denied :P
It is just sending very odd signals to the world
Tecnically speaking this officer whose performance is evaluated by the dedence ministry shall go anywhere when ordered. However the army must not play with the sentiments of this anti US nation that it is the government of PPP and they never wanted to go to US.
COAS questioning the decision of the civil government, again? When will Pakistan Army learn from its past mistakes? Never apparently....
Sethi forgot that Army Chief is not used to work with civilian authority, not easy to tame unless few are fired and shown their right place.
Who is Army head to visit for strategic dialogue without the presence of civil admin? I hope that they will not give a single person (leaders) dollars or nationality...
Gen. Kayani and Gen. Pasha on record are the only two leaders who have been able to negotiate with the Americans on equal terms in the past. No wonder they're hated by both the present government and its fanboys in the media.
Not a surprise at all. The top two news in Pakistan are about their two most powerful political leaders PCO CJ and Gen Kayani. Can only continue to happen in Pakistan. In most other countries nobody knows even their names let alone their daily sermons.