Sharmeen Obaid did not fulfil promise of Rs3m, plastic surgery: Acid victim
Rukhsana told the media that Obaid-Chinoy made her sign blank papers but a year has passed and none of her promises have been fulfilled. “In our family we wear the topi-burqa... When she [Obaid-Chinoy] got the Oscar, the film was shown across the world. When my husband saw it, he expelled me from the house and even my parents stopped talking to me,” Rukhsana said.
The acid victim also claimed that she had sent a legal notice to the filmmaker through a lawyer.
A trend “JusticeForRukhsana” also started trending on Twitter after media reports covering Rukhsana’s allegations were published. The reports claimed that Obaid-Chinoy had promised Rukhsana Rs3 million, construction of a house on 5 Marla (approx 150sq-ft) plot in Multan and plastic surgery.
Obaid-Chinoy, while talking to Express News, said that no documentary-maker would ever promise anything because it is unethical. “I have made 16 films in 10 countries and nothing of this sort has ever happened.”
She however added that a donor had expressed his desire of getting Rukhsana a house after watching the film. “The donor wanted Rukhsana to be given a house as money can be snatched by anyone. Rukhsana, her husband and her children even went to see the house. We even have the pictures. But her husband refused to take the house and told Rukhsana that she can get more money instead.”
When asked about Rukhsana’s allegations of her identity being revealed through the film, Obaid-Chinoy said that Rukhsana was filmed in her village in front of her parents. “Her parents were interviewed, her husband was also interviewed. If they did not know about the film, how come they are interviewed in it?”
She also clarified that she had not received any legal notice from the acid victim. “On what basis will I get a legal notice? Does she have any papers or documents? Legal cases can only be initiated when you have some proof... Why would I make her sign blank pages? What would I want from her?”
The filmmaker also questioned why Rukhsana is coming on the media and levelling allegations against her after so many months had passed since she received the Oscar. “When the Oscars took place, she went to newspapers and other media and told everyone that she was happy for informing the world about acid attacks. And now she is coming on the media to say that I had promised her things?”
But, she appealed that people should help Rukhsana as she is a victim. “We still want to help her, but our hands are tied. Victims and the Acid Survivors Foundation have moved a civil court appealing that Saving Face should not be aired in Pakistan. If I give money to Rukhsana through donors at this moment, won’t the court say that I’m bribing her to get my film aired?”
When asked about the royalty Rukhsana has demanded for working in her film, Sharmeen said, “What royalty? We had announced that whenever anyone watches the movie in Pakistan, the money would go to the victims. But the movie is not being allowed to run in the country.”
Obaid-Chinoy had also earlier insisted that the women featured in the film signed legal documents allowing the film to be shown anywhere in the world, including Pakistan.
Saving Face, a 40-minute film, focuses on Zakia and Rukhsana as they fight to rebuild their lives after being attacked by their husbands, and British Pakistani plastic surgeon Mohammad Jawad who tries to help repair their shattered looks.
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I'm amazed at the fact that our own so called Pakistani film or documentary makers don't highlight the issues that are caused by the western influence in Pakistan. They tend to highlight the worst in us rather than the worst that is done to us. I would have loved to see a documentary showing the plight of the people of our northern areas, how the so called Allies are bombing our children or how the stupidity of their actions in USSR vs Afghanistan caused our already in debt nation to face the task of feeding another 5 million plus refugees. But then again her documentary on such topic wouldn't have even been considered in the running let alone win an Oscar. I'm sorry to say this but Sharmeen you showed this bad side of our community at a very wrong time, its not that its not true and we shouldn't act to stop it but rather the fact that we as a nation are already in the lime light as worst of the worst. This documentary didn't help one bit to portray a better image of Pakistan.
@Rehman: Disgusting comments and more disgusting are the people who are recommending. Sitting at home how can you give a judgement just by reading the comments of the victim in the news item! It is outrageous. Typical ordinary human being and typical closed thinking pakistani mentality. Why don't you make a panel of judges and then investigate. Maybe people have forgotten that Allah tells us not to accuse anyone without proper knowledge. A thhomut is a terrible sin.
Sharmeen is a film maker and she did her job. It is not her responsibility to get the victim a house or money or get her a plastic surgery. This is ridiculous. As far as the Oscar is concerned, she earned it because of her work, not because of the acid victims.
May be she should ask Dr. Jawad who was playing the hero in the film. He promised him surgery, not Sharmeen. Even then, money and house are out of question.
@Hussain: If you are away from our rural society, and have had no chance of living with them, then please remember, our people, specially of the class under discussion, are JAMLA JAT.
quote: She however added that a donor had expressed his desire of getting Rukhsana a house after watching the film. “The donor wanted Rukhsana to be given a house as money can be snatched by anyone. Rukhsana, her husband and her children even went to see the house. We even have the pictures. But her husband refused to take the house and told Rukhsana that she can get more money instead.”
It is the husband (again)!
I really hope all of you who jump to conclusions and are always ready to think that someone has done bad instead of good, read the Islamic Help statement being circulated on twitter in support of everything Shermeen has been saying- Open your eyes people and learn to believe- https://twitter.com/sharmeenochinoy/status/219006738844758016/photo/1 I hoep everyone can now put this matter to rest
Why would you show negative stuff about Pakistan to the world and earn an Oscar by exploiting poor women. This woman is cruel and stupid. Most people will not watch the sick stuff even if it is true.
Seems the same people who attacked this poor women with acid, are behind to defame Sharmin. I believe the acid lobby is too strong and will keep coming back.
@Vat Naansense:
technically GOld(oscar) earned by Sharmeen?
@sick of this nonsense:
Things usually "Aided" by US are never for good cause. The world politics depicts that quite well.
I'm 20. Just because I believe or hope to believe in a better Pakistan doesn't mean I am naive. Its just that unlike you I believe in Pakistan@Humble Bee:
@Sheila Mazar: ASF is a shady organization, I agree with you there.
Hmm a rich elite woman who clearly knows how to work the system and living 'the good life' vs. a poor woman (already pretty tormented by society) Who shall we trust more... I know that I do not trust anything that Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy or her various organisations get up too!
Why should a woman like Sharmeen need to lie, I think the question people need to ask themselves is what has the Acid Survivors Foundation done for Rukhsana. I think ASF should be ashamed not Sharmeen, for hiding behind the burns of this woman. Sharmeen is doing some brilliant work and I sincerely hope she keeps it up
I would like anyone here to name ONE person, ONE, who has been paid for being IN a documentary. Not donations after the documentary, not publicity after the documentary but paid for allowing filmmakers to FILM THEM FOR A DOCUMENTARY.
People, when USAID donates to anything, it clearly puts its name there since they are very transparent and want their donations acknowledged. AND Saving face's credits CLEARLY say it is funded by HBO...you know that movie channel? Just READ the credits. Three alphabets ONLY.
Also, lets all focus on International funding to defame Pakistan because what with all the Shia massacres, Hazara genocide, and Ahmedi prosecution and pretty much bad treatment of ALL minorities and women, we're doing pretty great on the image scale!
I've realized it doesn't matter what proof Sharmeen comes up with to clear her name. People have already decided. Rukhsana, who's allegations change everyday to the point where she's accusing Sharmeen of filing a case against her own self...none of this matters. She's poor. She's been burnt. Yes, she's a victim/survivor...but she can also be greedy at the same time. Or at least be pressured into doing all this by her husband and in-laws(you know the people who ruined her face/life).
I'm sorry do you guys know what USAID is? Are you familiar with the kind of projects it funds? http://www.usaid.gov/ Please acquaint yourself before hurling such bizarre and nonsensical allegations.
I agree Rukhsana is a victim and it's hard to blame the victim but all the signs point towards her. None of her accusations make sense.
@Hussain she is not an actress- yes that is why she is not supposed to be paid!
http://dawn.com/2012/02/28/the-women-behind-the-oscar/ Proof that Rukhsana was first on board and is now swaying.
Sharmeen is still supporting the victim Rukhsana, you don't have to choose between helping the victim and taking pride in the Oscar they are two in the same! This woman is obviously being used to exploit Sharmeen-- very sad.
Your country is going down because you want to blame everyone else for your problems instead of looking at yourself. Just because someone is successful does not mean they are liars-- we finally did something with integrity and look at the disgusting way which people take the first opportunity they can to tear it down. This is why this nation is failing.
Listening to the conversation of the two ladies one wonders what was the intention of the documentary to highlight the cause or win the Oscar. It's truly becoming a match of "Saving Face" for the two and the public is left high and dry to think for the victim or the pride the Oscar brought to Pakistan. A win -win situation could have been to set up a trust for the victims in the documentary or the acid victims in general as it was done for those filmed in Slumgodmillionaire.Isnt there a code of conduct or the like consumer forum for filmmakers.and what role does the government in rehabilitating or compensating these victims.I wish the politics will stop and real action will begin for the victims.Thank you.
loving the controversy
Do you seriously believe everything media Ever tells you ?
How are you so sure that people did not buy Rukhsana to stage this drama; alas in Pakistan reality is always stranger then fiction. Dont you guys know that its a trend in Pakistan to pull anyone's leg if someone moves up? This women rukhsana what does she have to loose; now tell me her husband told her to wear burqa; come on guys how many of you think that someone would want to exploit her when she is out of the house; i am not being cold hearted person but reality bites; many of you would not even dare look at her face if she passes by.
Please be real and analyse everything before you make comments on it and media please show some responsibility and be reasonable.
@Rehman: Did you even read the article Mr. Rehman or even did some research before making your comment?
Please, please. Please hold on for a while. Let some independent people or some thrill-free investigator make a probe... Let us not forget personality difference between criminals, their supporters, and intellectuals.
@ Ridiculous
You are such a innocent Pakistani creature, you are older than 10 years in age or less .Please confirm.
People really need to think before they say anything. When she made the documentary and won the oscar everyone was of so happy but now? Why would she ever promise to give any money to anyone. It is a documentary. I don't get why its hard for us Pakistani's to understand that people can do things that are good for the other people. SOC Films is a wonderful organization working to bring the truth out to the people. Its sad to see how easily our loyalties change the moment some new news comes out. If Sharmeen promised any one anything it would have been also promised to Zakia who was the main subject. Yet she hasn't come up and said anything like that. Think about what you all are talking about.
SOC is declaring it to be a "documentary" in a manner that reflects that she is not gaining financially from the same. Her amazing talents aside, she did not make this documentary from a purely "national service" perspective. She was looking for payback; financial payback. What's the harm in agreeing that the people who were instrumental in creating that financial payback, should also benefit from it? Why say that "documentary" subjects are not supposed to be compensated... That's my problem with SOC's story. Even if she had not promised Rukhsana anything at all, she should have the heart to share the spoils with the two victims instrumental to the making of the "documentary". Sharing from one's spoils is ultimately the biggest reflection of one's commitment to a cause. TAKE THE LEAP, SOC! Make us all proud again.
The film is a campaign in itself, it shows how these victims can help, how we can help them? Instead of sitting here bashing someone who has tried to do something about a problem, why don't you get off your high horse and do something. So many allegations about "shady donors" that Sharmeen O Chinoy used, and some sort of vendetta that Sharmeen has against the Pakistani people, where is your proof?
oops some one lying , it's like film producer and actor both are top and bottom wow lies lies lies
Im glad Pak won an Oscar. But look what we wont it for. We further shared the miseries that our country faces with the rest of the world. SOC did a great job to win a Oscar for our country, no doubt, but how I wish she produced a documentary on Edhi, K2, etc. We should not jump to conclusions before we have the fact pattern. The poor in Pakistan are in in the worst shape in the history of Pakistan's existence and would do anything to make a quick buck or two. I dont blame them...
i get the feeling the victim is lying..
Now this is interesting....
A documentary film maker is neither legally nor morally obliged to help subjects of the said documentary. Shermeen Obaid Chinoy is only being targetted for Saving Face won an Oscar and garnered a lot of fame, and now some opportunistic people are trying to take advantage. I am sure the directors took consent forms from all those who participated. Secondly why shouldn't the documentary be aired in Pakistan? What better forum is there other than this film to highlight the horrors faced by victims of acid attacks. What i am most saddened by is all those who have attacked Shermeen without any burden of proof. Instead of standing by someone who has made us proud to be Pakistanis, people are attacking her. Another sad day in Pakistan.
Rukhsana is now treading around with the same husband who threw acid on her, does the woman have no self respect. All it boils down to now is greed probably under the influence of her good for nothing husband and in laws. Shame on the whole system which first fails to nab criminals like her husband and then give so much coverage to such baseless allegations.
@ Shehla,
Why did she used that victim then , a little make up from hollywood andy asian pacific women could have replace here. We are not talking about a celebrity cast.
Sharmeen, Rukhsana at least deserve to be given medical treatment!! this one point proves her story real!!
@Syed: You idiot its a documentary. If such were the case everyone who ever had their face shown in a documentary would be a millionaire. Go read up on the ethics of filmmaking first
Hey People , Dont Get mistaken, The women is foolish, Someone has made fool of her into the false pretense that if she claim this she would get fame and would get a lot of money. Mostly such people deserve punishment. Do you remember the case of mukhtara Mai, We now know that all that was fake and she even managed to get money from Musharraf.. You cant blame them but believe me now a days people from pakistan can do anything to get money from you.
Sharmeen has won the Oscar and she wouldn't care a damn about Rukhsana. She used the burn victims like a tissue paper and after achieving her objective threw them in the dust bin and moved on. The reality is that Shermeen is now a celebrity and poor Rukhsana is no one; she probably can never manage to remain in the media for more than a day or two. Our society has very short lived memory and soon you will find women like Kashmala Tariq jumping in to save Sharmeen and we will forget the actual story. I bet just wait and see!
So I did not see a lot of tweets, or FB shares or question marks on this one - No debated to find out if Sharmeen should be held accountable. No one wants to question an Oscar winner.
So many of my friends who say they support the cause Sharmeen stood for - now the victim shows she wasnt really compensated for the cause, and no one wants to find out the authenticity of either of them.
All of you who have shut up on this - becuase you having being sharing pro sharmeen , is nt because you like sharmeen or you love the cause - or appreciate the film makers talent - it is only because you are puppy eyed with the Oscar.
You dont want to controversial. You want to be cool. Shame on you My country is going down because of people who take advantage of it If Sharmeen is one of them Find that out
@AHK:
"I always knew Obaid-Chinoy was nothing but a big fraud. The funds for making the documentary were provided by USAID for promotion a ‘certain’ point of view about Pakistan."
I fully concur with your statement. Had helping the acid victims was the motive of USAID, they could have built a 'Burn Center' for the victims - that would have been the real help - with the kind of money they used to create the documentary portraying the negative image of Pakistan. And I am sure, the OSCAR was the reward - everybody knows how the decisions are made there - for the director for helping achieving their objectives.
@Err...: So what if UsAid funded it? It was for a good cause. Some people are seriously demented and will always blame others but never see their own short comings.
@mr. righty rightist: For the first time ever I have to agree with you. A Pakistani lady won an Oscar for our nation highlighting a very important cause and we are showering her with scorn. Excellent. The acid victim should be happy that she had a part to play in a bigger picture. More people will be educated about this menace of barbaric act known as acid throwing. And why in God's name is it banned in our country?
Gosh...I know who the person very well who started all this :P
It is a pure greed and a gold digger family's case but now involves professional jealousy and some ones success. Grow-up people, Sharmeen has done a wonderful job that no other Pakistani could do, just as AQK's success and gets a lot of professional jealousy as well.
so it all boils down to $$$$$$$$$
Has some body not told SOC, who is certainly well traveled but also appears to be well read, that never promise some thing when happy and never react when angry. And the above statement holds good if SOC had made a promise to the victim. Or else if the victim is cooking up the story just to extract what ever can be, then it is indeed unfortunate. Rgds P
@Err...: When was the last time you, or people like you, funded or aided the making of a documentary? Documentaries and welfare efforts are generally funded by endowments (look it up) and charitable organizations. Just so you know, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation supports and funds a lot of anti-polio activities in Pakistan. Should the Pak government refuse those as well? Should the Pak government also refuse USAID donations in the wake of natural calamities such as floods and earthquakes? If you think USAID and Coca Cola are 'shady' then I reckon you do not support USAID's humanitarian efforts or you are a Pepsi fan. Or better convince the Pak government to refuse billions of dollars it gets in aid from USAID.
@Ali:
Funded by enemies to defame Pakistan? What enemies? Same enemies who come inside our country and throw acid on these women in the first place? Grow up! Stop blaming others for your faults and dirty deeds and one day we might become a great nation!
Sharmeen Chinoy has a history of choosing shady donors. First she makes her Oscar documentary with the help of 1 million dollar grant from USAID and then she starts this so called social welfare campaign and documentary 'Ho Yaqeen' sponsored by Coca Cola. The latter campaign is even worse, because the entire documentary and awareness events on one hand involve social awarness campaign mixed with Coca Cola using Sharmeen's work to push its products and bombard consumers with advertising (Does Sharmeen realise the shady reputation and poor CSR Coca Cola has in the developing world)?? She calls herself an independent film makers but resorts to questionable methods of fim making. Saving Face is not the only documentary to garner controversy, others have faced problems too and its only a matter of time issues crop up with Ho Yaqeen too. The criticism of Sharmeen is justified because if this way any other part of the world and she won an OScar fo a USAID funded documentary there would have been a huge hue and cry and far much worse media attention. Shame!
Sharmeen I say you call this lady out for defamation and expose her and her husband's agenda entirely. There's a dangerous trend in Pakistan of labeling anyone and everyone corrupt and deceitful - sometimes to gain some personal benefit but usually out of spite. Everyone's everyone's willing to believe the worst on mere heresay or speculation. Unfortunately, judges don't even read facts of cases, so it's hard to sue for defamation, but you shouldn't take this lying down. Individuals, judges, the govt, the media - all need to be introduced to the concept of accountability.
@Ali Many reasons come to mind. The first..to become rich?
@KD: Nothing has been achieved for Pakistan. Pakistan does not need oscars.
This doesn't sound right! Why would the victim take so long to claim all these benefits that were 'promised' even before the film was a success! An afterthought maybe? And why would she be surprised the film is actually shown to the public..did she think they were making it for their private viewing?
I feel for Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy in all this. I hope she knows that some of us do support her position. It is sad that the allegations come from someone who has been an acid attack victim, but it's Sharmeen's arguments that are more credible here.
Sharmeen Obaid willbe saving her face now.... Why would a poor victim go to such lengths over a promise? When she's right!
3 Million, a House and expenses for plastic surgery for working in a documentary? Lol.. Seems that it was the most expensive documentary ever made...
What a fantastically sensational headline tribune. Doesn't go at all with the rest of the story which clearly shows this whole media brouhaha to be over the top and unnecessary.
@Syed: What do you think the house from the donor was? Money from abroad!
I am going to ask the ugly question. Does being an acid-attack victim automatically exempts you for having any "corrupt" intentions? To me Rukhsana is being coerced by her husband and in-laws to gain as much money as possible out of this documentary. Being an acid-attack victim in no way makes you an exceptional human being. Not that I am saying Rukhsana deserved what she got, but she certainly is showing that no matter the circumstances, humans will find means to exploit others. Sharmeen-Obaid is the one who is truly victimized here...
Who cares, let Sharmeen Obaid Chinoy enjoy her trip on Hawaaii beach holding a coconut water with expensive glasses on her eyes from the earnings of the documentary .True feminist of woman rights. so touching
Lets not take the spot light of the Pakistanis who throw acid on their wives and girl friends, above all this so called honour killings. It is true that whenever documentaries are made, there is no compensation for the participants because it is unethical but some Pakistanis don't know what does unethical means.It is unfortunate that greed and corruption is so rampant in the land of the pure, just look around you. How come she is still living with her husband who has thrown acid on her face, this man should be in jail and not choosing home for him, he is the one we should be watching. Go ahead bash Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy but the fact is that acid throwing and honour killing is going on pretty much in Pakistan and nobody is doing anything about it.SAD.
@AHK: Can you guys go one article without going to ridiculous imaginary lengths to blame another country for your own moral shortcomings?
I have strong feelings that Rukhsana might have been forced (or motivated) by her husband to make such allegations - just for the sake of money.
@AHK: I think it was HBO and Channel 4 in the UK
@Truth Exposed: Where do you think the donor for the house is from?
There is a picture circulating on twitter that shows Ruhksana with her husband and her child, casually standing AFTER the Oscar win- so her being thrown out of her house is a very sad lie. I suspect Ruhksana is being exploited further (by who, I don't know) to get money out of the directors.
The problem with this situation is that despite what Rukhsana does, she’ll always be the victim because she’s got scars to show for it. Rukhsana claims to have been kicked out of the house as soon as the film released and is still helpless. That’s a curious thing since I just saw a picture of her(tweeted by Sharmeen), showing her happily house shopping/sipping a cold drink, with a baby, and her husband. The house which she so badly wanted and was almost given to her by a concerned donor(as Sharmeen has updated). The house was rejected by Rukhsana because her in-laws wanted hard cash and apparently 30lakhs of it. Btw, the picture is obviously recent since the baby was born towards the end of saving face being shot. Please read: http://e.jang.com.pk/06-28-2012/karachi/pic.asp?picname=1046.gif And: http://tl.gd/i2fk2n Picture here: https://twitter.com/sharmeenochinoy/status/218308080658690048/photo/1
Everyone who is financially stable or successful is not evil, and having acid thrown at her doesn't make Rukhsana a saint. She is an acid survivor, yes, but its very hard to have sympathy for her after all this 'extortion'. We're such a biased nation. Quick to slander someone without proof!
Another case of down on their luck Pakistanis looking for a freebie handout. Nothing new.
So she will only pay Rukhsana if the film is shown in Pakistan? what kind of crap is that? If there was no Rukhsana or Zakia, there would be no documentary. Film makers did use them to create this 40 minute documentary so help these poor people out please. She is indeed a victim. She isn't asking for millions of $ so do something to help
Rukh$ana is a gold-digger!
Everyone who reads this would impulsively want to side with Rukhsana because she is a victim but it is important to look at this objectively. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Rukhsana wants a piece of the cake given the film's success or that SOC promised her incentives for participation. Bottom line: the fault can lie on either side so let's wait for both sides to present evidence to support their claims before we decide who the vicitim really is in this particular scenario.
Sharmeen should pay.up..... saving grace
True or not, I am amazed at how Express Tribune puts such news items as a headline.
Your headline should be more representing issues that affect country/us a nation - putting up such unsubstantiated claims just shows lack of professionalism at Tribune / other media.
The media companies also have a responsibility towards the nation (its readers) while they make money on the way, you guys have a equal share in turning this nation in a one that is paranoid and with psychophysical disorder.
History will remember you for some good, but also for many bad things.
True face of the so-called liberals.
Seems that Rukhsana wants a piece of fame as well...
one version might be: someone may have told Rukhsana that you are staying in the village (no financial gain or recognition) and the filmmaker used you to yeild benefits of her own... :) and then the above mentioned plot came in to existence.
kehnay main kia jataa hai...
however the lesson to be learnt is... document every act / transaction.
It was funded by the enemies to defame Pakistan. What else one can expect from Sharmeen?
I didnt like Saving face and dont care for SOC shtick but this is ridiculous. Royalty for "Working" in a documentary??really
Wow
We have got an oscar A women raised the flag to bring a bag of oscar We have got an oscar at the price of fooling a poor acid victim Oscar, Oscar, We have got an Oscar
Green Passport live long, Does that acid victim has a passport, has she ever seen an airport.
It's not the filmmakr's responsibility to take care of this person.
besides, she should lodge complaints against her husband and in laws and not against the filmmaker.
If it is true its really shameful, these people got famous by using poor and needy and then left them on dangerous waters....!!
Why would the poor victim lie after having videoed herself in the documentary? Victim and her family didn’t participate in the documentary to simply ‘enlighten’ the world. Why would she participate in a documentary, which was bound to cause outrage among some circles, without any monetary compensation? Even more shocking is that the victim didn’t even get the plastic surgery! It’s sad that Sharmeen has ditched the victim who brought her so much money and fame.
ps: I am not one of the rightists/nationalists who thought that the documentary had given a negative image of an otherwise shining Pakistan.
[“What royalty? We had announced that whenever anyone watches the movie in Pakistan, the money would go to the victims. But the movie is not being allowed to run in the country.”] isn't it being aired abroad?
SOC is a documentary maker.. not syed noor or karan johar... and rukhsana is not veena malik whos working for bollywood for fame, money and benefits! PEOPLE! appreciate what she has achieved for Pakistan!! sick ppl spreading rumours! shameful!
I always knew Obaid-Chinoy was nothing but a big fraud. The funds for making the documentary were provided by USAID for promotion a 'certain' point of view about Pakistan.
Thats the reality of "Film makers" in Pakistan. Use them earn Oscars and awards and then ignore them!
Poor lady!