'US to rely on NDN in case Pakistan doesn't resume NATO routes'
Addressing the Readiness Subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee on Wednesday, Marine Corps Lieutenant General Frank Panter, the Deputy Commandant for Installations and Logistics told lawmakers that relying on the NDN are expensive propositions.
He added that negotiations with Pakistan regarding reopening of supply routes are still going on.
If Pakistan’s ground routes are not reopened for Nato supply, Lt Gen Panter said the re-deployment timelines will also increase.
Deputy Chief of Staff for Logistics Army Lieutenant General Raymond Mason told the subcommittee that “Pakistan’s ground routes are critical and they have been closed since November. The good news is that our logistic situation is in very good shape, because of good planning”
“The NDN is three to four times more expensive, because it is three to four times lengthier,” he added.
Correction: Due to a transcription error, Marine Corps Lieutenant General Frank Panter's comments incorrectly stated that Nato supply routes would be re-routed through India. The error is regretted.
COMMENTS (103)
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India does have border with Afganistan
@Phew:Never forget to hate India
No matter what and how . . .as long as the end result is peace. It is time for peace and no more war, the soldiers need to go back to their families safe and sound without further damage. Both sides have made a huge sacrifice and must help each other towards peace and India the war monger needs to be tossed out of this equation other wise it will continue to use both Pakistan and US for its own selfish means and sabotage peace.
Dear US' leaders you must have to do so without wasting more any time on priority basis as soon as possible without waiting for Pakistan's decision in regard of blocked NATO's supply routes' re-opening from Pakistan.This is much the best and most effective option for you to restore the blocked NATO's supply from Pakistan.Please hurry up and do so.
Go ahead - use the NDN - we do not need NATO trucks tearing the already fragile Pakistani road network.
It's about time India gets a taste of this. Welcome to India, India desreves it . .
Pakistan is better off as a nuetral country and this way no country will try to put huge demands, its first born child, its blood and bread and butter etc etc. Also then, no one will try to slander it as an enemy or freind. Also it should close its borders from all sides so terrorist will not enter and the Army should be considered supreme to the sham democracy. As this kind of reality applies to Pakistan only, Pakistan should be left to grow and left alone.
india want to help usa they most welcom.
@Mufazzil: Google F16 spare parts...(USA);-)
Indians cannot be used against pakistan. we still are brothers, if handful of politicians in Pakistan are exploting this relation, too bad. Brotherhood is among civilians who care about each other and we should not do any deal that has any relation to killing.
for a country dependent on American aid , pakistanis are generally very happy at their discomfort. this is a lesson for everyone what sort of friends they are. Infact a Muslim has more rights in US than China, but they go lengths to justify "friendship": while abusing US. in every India pak war China has refused to step in, including Kargil/On the other hand US sent its fleet during 1971 and held India's hands during Kargil, still you guys abuse it. US donated 5 times the aid the Chinese did during the floods and you abuse them.Its hilarious but true. it shows mentality of this country which has become headache of this world
The question is not how NATO supplies will reach Afghanistan, instead it's if India is willing to help U.S. attack Iran from Afghanistan. Yes, that is the root of all worries India is going through these days. What will happen if Iran is neutralized, Pakistan become stronger and closer U.S ally if India is sidelined for it's support for Iranian's Nuclear program. Pakistan after all China's old-time friend & U.S. need China more than India for it's shear size of economy and quality of products, it's control over China Sea, Korea, Taiwan, Pakistan, Pacific ocean and unmatched potential as trade partner. By being a close buddy of Iran, India is loosing Arab sympathy too against Pakistan. That's not all, another Indian ally Syria is also a thorn-on-the side of U.S., Israel and Arab psyche.
@wise counsel.:
Your point is well taken. For accessing AF mines, India would most likely make use of the Chahbahar port that it helped finance for Iran, even if it means a more circutous and more expenditure.
@Harry Stone: Little boy you are very frustrated. You better pay attention to what I am saying now.
If the air bridge option was viable, don't you think the US could be using it out of UAE or KSA or Bahrain or Qatar or Oman, huh? As for India using Afghan transit route through Pakistan, the agreement clearly lists the items that India can ship to Afghanistan if she is to use Pakistani roads and Pakistan RESERVES THE RIGHT to inspect goods wherever in its territory.I hope you are clear now.
@UsmanX
Here is the link to Zafar Hilaly on America-Russia-Afghanistan-Pakistan entanglement.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9-99909-Our-self-inflicted-wounds
unwise counsel, so the only reason pakistan was able to take 84,000 sq km. away from India was because of a strategic decision by India? very well then.
Let U.S be-friend with India. Both don't know each other since the rise of communist Russia. India definitely is in for a surprise from an unequal friend in most aspect. It will be like a relationship to the tune of "City boy & farm Girl".
@usmanx:
Arent you begging the same Soviets (Russia) for funding the IP pipeline...??????
@Mufazzil:
Not much there that would impede an air bridge.
Indians were very happy to read the misquoted headline. wokeup indians. Americans are not relying on you. rofl ........ lolzzzzzzzzzz...better luck next time Indians are MORE LOYAL THAN THE KING.
The NDN might just be the last resort, as it is a longer route. Yet this alternative will open windows of opportunity and help Afghanistan integrate economically and politically with neighbours like Uzbekistan, Krygystan and Tajikistan. At the same time, the project will help the United States further its interests within the transit states.
@Yuri Kondratyuk:
I was thinking of the same thing too. Didnt we read a news just a couple of days ago of India using Chahbahar port to transport wheat...?
@Abdul Kadir: Also, one point all seem to have missed is, that India deliberately sealed its borders with Afghanistan by conceding POK to Pakistan .This was the best thing that India did and i would call this a most wise decision and a carefully calculated one. This ensures that there is no influx of Afghan Talibans and also this would save much on expenditure towards protecting that border.Pakistan on the other hand has to spend heavily on protecting its borders from Afghanistan, India,China,Iran..need I go on.??India would never want to involve itself in Nato supplies.Never. Now what it would involve itself would be in TAPI and also the mines of Afghanistan for which it would prefer to tackle pakistan for routes.It would never seek a direct route to war torn Afghanistan and that is how she can keep her country safe and terrorism free.Paying Pakistan a transit fees however exhorbitant is still a welcome option than sharing a border with afghanistan.
@ harry stoned you people are so frustrated by the nato supply as it rose the sucide attempt with in nato n american soldiers. its been 80 %more as compare to previous suicide attempts. you never know what will next percentage of your soldier's suicidal attempt. you people always translate your defeat into less successfull war. you people should realise the gravity of the situation now. its now more than 3 months u people are begging to open the route. Do whateva u want who cares
Priyanka, how dare you belittle our sacrifices in Soviet-Afghan war?
When the soviets invaded Afghanistan, The ISI played the lead role while the CIA provided backup support in terms of funds, weapons and satellite intelligence. Hundreds of Thousands of Pushtuns from Pakistan fought in Afghanistan. Pakistan Air Force thwarted several thousand incursions by Soviet forces. During 1981-88, Pakistan experienced about 2000 air intrusions by Afghan/Soviet forces. It shot down about 14 Afghan/Soviet aircraft over the years and suffered one loss. Pakistan also hosted 3 million Afghan refugees for over 4 decades. (Largest refugee population for longest period). 25 million pakistani pushtun and 150 million pakistanis prayed for their afghan brethren on every friday in every corner of paksitan. Pakistan infiltrated American weapons into the hands of Mujaheddin. The Soviets began to realize that they were fighting a losing battle. Had Pakistan not engaged the Soviet forces within Afghanistan they would have consolidated the Afghan occupation in a few weeks and have certainly made a dash to the Arabian Sea. Persian Gulf waters today would have been home to the Soviet Navy. Above all, the Soviet Union would have still been there, thriving and vibrant with total control of the world’s largest reserves of oil in the Middle East.
And what did India do? While every democratic country boycotted the moscow olympics -- India participated. Today these very same Indians are supposedly Afghanistan's saffron friends and teaching us our own history.
As an Indian even I think that this is just posturing. Then again, please remember that this is the US which did the Berlin airlift 70 years ago. Sure that was just supplying a city as opposed to supplying a country, but if they wished, they had the wherewithal to supply Afghanistan any way they want. However the only problem for them right now is their economic state does not allow them to do so.
@Harry Stone: Google Pakistan.......... Hint it is a country between India and Afghanistan
@Raj - USA: Pakistanis broke up USSR? Seriously the thinking has got to change in Pakistan! My God what an ideology what a philosophy?
@Mufazzil:
Goggle C130............hint it is an airplane.
LOL..... Who is the US fooling? Dummies you can't ship the Nato goods out of India to Afghanistan no matter what you "two" equals do. My Indian friends are so naive to think that they will be able to use Af-Pak-India Transit Route and we'll be sleeping. Wake up. This is just a damn pressure tactic and apparently it has had no effect in Islamabad. So, buzz off. From now on, you gotta deal with us as we like to be.
@Shahid: @Imran Mohammad: I have said in my comment that I am leaving out the major changes that could happen.
If USA can operate its drones remotely from USA, it can also operate remotely its other types of drones now in UK and Switzerland. You must see it in the context of the protests and killings going on within several Provinces of Pakistan. Few others have already commented on this. Read the comments above from @truebluepakistani. Regarding international relations, Indians were chanting Indi Cheeni Bhai Baai just 6 months before the India / China war in 1962. Just 6 months ago, Pakistanis were bragging how they defeated and broke up Soviet Union. Now they are looking up to Russia for the IP pipeline. International relations change and sometimes very fast. So, relationship with Iran could also change. Regarding overflight rights to transport supplies to Afghanistan, though I am not sure, I think that there are international obligations and air space cannot be restricted unless a war is declared. Do you know the main reason Pakistan lost Banglades? Few months before the war, Pakistan hijacked a civilian aircraft of Indian Airlines and blew it up in Karachi. No one was killed and just the plane was blown up. This gave the perfect opportunity for Indira Gandhi to stop overflights from West Pakistan to East Pakistan over india. Until then India could not stop the overflights and with this incidence, India declared war and stopped overflights. West Pakistan could not take its supplies to East Pakistan and the soldiers were stuck there. After that it was a cake walk for India. Tiger Niazi was so foolish to do this. Though I am not sure, I think unless war is formally declared a country cannot block its entire air space to others and can only block some specific areas. Additionally, if Pakistan blocks its air space, its airlines would be blocked throughout Europe and USA.
@logic Europe: I think there should be no concerns about the US using force to reopen the supply line. That is just not cost effective for them.
What you do need to do however is to be concerned with American public opinion. The American public in spite of the best efforts of its government view PAK as an enemy. This is a case, unlike PAK where both the government and the public view America as enemy, where their public is ahead of their elected leaders.
Are anybody sure that Pakistan has guts to refuse US nato routes. What are the aftershocks. Pakistan army has to replace all its weaponry for non-supply of spares. Who will come aiding Pakistan, definitely not China because of its bitter experience in its western parts and also its business with India and US. If fighting Taliban and Al Queda is US war, will Pakistan stop fighting and allow them to take charge of the country inviting UN sanctions. What will happen to a volatile state like Balochistan where people are fighting the army and non-balochis. What will be economic position if the floods repeat once again. So, my dear friends, our pose is only for getting more $ from US and not to annoy them. Drones are still hovering on our heads.
@3akr: It is obvious you know nothing of who produces oil in the world. Your concern should not be with the Americans but with PAK.
and now is our Pakistani army going to stop US from reopening the route by force?? don't rely on casts for America is rich,and don't rely on American public opinion ,it can be moulded by the government any time to any shape,dear Pakistanis dont do the same mistake as Sadam did
The cost through pakistan "Fuel costs anywhere from $400 to $1,000 by the time it gets to a base in Afghanistan." Incredible!!! Better start pushing those Humvees since there may not be any fuel available at all after Iran is attacked, and just imagine how much fuel will cost then. What a ridiculous waste of time energy and resources. Someone really needs their head examined on this one... .yeah good luck with India. it will cost the poor american people 3 to 4 times higher than NDN routes. Americans u need to work hard and pay the double in taxes to support your soldier killing innocent people out there in Afghanistan(those who are equipped nothing but struggle or striving for a moral or spiritual or political goal )
@Shahid: I surely agree this is applicable to both the US and PAK. The difference is PAK is actually examining its relationship with the US. This appears to be something the US is currently reluctant to do as it relates to PAK. It is good that PAK believes the US to be their enemy. This is a positive step and eliminates the duplicity that has occurred for much of this alliance.
As for the Americans learning something, you would think they would. They surely need to get out of the WWII mindset of nation building. They should only seek military victory where they have great success and stop trying to install functioning governments before they leave where they are less successful.
That would seem to be the lesson they should learn.
Let us examine the players and their compulsions carefully.
USA- Needs to have a base to ensure Afghanistan does not slide into old terror ways.Needs to make sure Iran is not made into an enemy.
Iran- Needs to overcome sanctions and a wink-wink for its N programme. The kind that was extended to Pakistan during the 1980's and early 1990's. Make sure Mazar-e-Sharif is not repeated. Plus Charbahar port becomes viable.
Afghanistan- Specially the non-Pashtun and non-Talibani Pashtun portions of the population would be too happy with any arrangement that keeps the Taliban away.
India- Prevent terror outfits from gaining ground in the neighbourhood. Secure oil supplies from Iran. Make sure Charbahar investment pays off.
All Pakistanis- Be careful about what you wish for , It may just come true.
i think indians dont have time to comment on their local news paper :)..... same news guys.. i think u really enjoy it...... or ?????
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-to-rely-on-india-if-pak-doesnt-open-nato-supply-route-pentagon/930453/2
US can give outsourcing contract to India for supply of NATO goods to Afghanistan. We know how to deliver the goods without much fuss. Geography & boundaries will evaporate Leave it to us
@ProudPakistani: You can't make a fool out of someone who is already a fool.
@Blithe: Yeah Americans are all so stupid that they plucked bin laden from pakistan without the brilliant Pakistanis knowing about it. Some people never learn from experiences.
@Azmat: yea these "taliban" muslims brother keep blowing your own people and you keep protecting them. There is a saying "if you keep feeding snake, don't expect it to be loyal". These taliban people have political agenda and they are the same people who used US/Arab world supported weapons and money to fight the afghan war against soviet. Facts are infront of you if you still choose to ignore, god bless you !!
I am 100% sure that INDIA will not agree to this.
I'm a Bhindian by the way.
India herself is on our shoes for opening transit corridor to Afghanistan and beyond don't know how Uncle Sam will make that happen from India without Pakistan? ;) I think PAK-US should come to some consensus by give n take and not by carrot n stick !
India has not needed US aid money since PL480. Nor has it danced to external masters' tune. It has been preoccupied with internal politics. The US would be foolish to treat it as a client state. Indian public still rules
@Harry Stone: I think your perception does make sense. Likewise, for USA too. Whatever you said is also applicable to USA. So, what else is new??? You think you guys in US are right all the time?? That what needs to be corrected and in time you will learn.
The geniuses from the east think that they will have some sort of leverage with Iran for US supplies. If Iran allowed that, why wouldn't it simply become a route for the US directly? This is implausible as long as Iran is a revolutionary republic.
Even if India is used, good for them and good for U.S., supporting the U.S. has been a disaster for Pakistan. 40,000 people have died, 10 times the number of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan. Pakistan has been destabilized. Our weak economy is further weakened. Even though Pakistan apprehended 600 al-qaeda operatives including KSM, Pakistan still get zero appreciation. Finally, the "aid", more appropriately, compensation is not sufficient to repair our roads let alone make up for our significant losses.
Ashvinn, how is India pacifist? Have you forgotten junagadh, hyderabad, kashmir, goa, minicoy, bangladesh, forward policy? And you tell us we are brain-washed...
That's why the farangi divided india and made them fight with each other.
@Anjaan:
Actually at one time the Americans viewed PAK as an ally in the war on terror. They felt they shared more common objectives than differences. This has proven to be wrong. There is a growing realization that PAK is not an ally but an enemy of the US. So there are many in the US who secretly cheer what PAK is doing as it relates to its relations to the US.
PAK is so self-absorbed in its own created drama, that it fails to see what is becoming clear as the logical conclusion of this alliance. It would be wise for PAK to develop much closer ties with it “all weather” friend China. PAK will soon discover its F16’s are about as combat ready as Iran finds its F14’s.
For all those laughing. Americans can use Afghanistan-India transit trade route to transport their own goods. They are much smarter then us off-course, because they were the ones who brokered Afghanistan-India transit trade.
Hahaha did u guys notice the news source is zee news, I am sure it is misreported how in the world did USA generals think they can convince a pacifist India to agree to this supply route, that too with congress at the helm.ET please verify this news from a more credible source like TheHindu.
@Ozymandias The friendship of princes is a fickle thing..... You’ll learn that soon enough Depends upon the country, India does not need American money to feed its people, build roads, buy weapons, pay salaries etc. India deals with US as "equals", we own $44 Billion worth of US treausury(as of now, it will certainly increase in future). We buy fighter jets worth $12.5 Billion from France, we have defence deals with Russia worth $30 Billion and our trade with China is worth $70 Billion...meaning, US is just one of many countries for us, its neither a friend nor a master...we are not Pakistan, when it comes to US.
I say Go ahead America...Nothing can get better for Pakistan than that & nothing can get worse for U.S.A & India than that... Fools are trying to make Pakistanis Fool... :P
@Raj - USA: I was thinking of the Iran option felicitated by India myself. For all the loud bravado, Iran is actually desperate to crawl out of the present squeeze and practically, it has no use for nuclear weapons...ahem...energy. If India can use its leverage with Teheran, it would be a win- win situation for all the parties, including Pakistan (going by the Pakistani reactions in this forum!!). But, something tell me Pak is only playing hard to get.
This seems some sort of a joke:P
Pakistan should apart her ways from USA because USA always looks for her benefit
@J Oberoi:I think the Americans are just playing mind games to try and reopen the route . We should stay out of this
Staging product for air delivery in India may not be the cheapest alternative -- but it should provide thousands of jobs to India that would otherwise have gone to Pakistan -- just another unintended consequence of Pakistan's bravado.
Does Pakistan truly beleive transit is more than about costs?
@Thoughtful: How?? over China or Pakistan airspace?? Using Iran airspace??After USA sanctions and all that venom spitting american dramatics against Iran. What ever is being said about India route etc; is all hogwash, nothing more.
@Raj - USA, China leasing its territory to India and Iran allowing NATO supplies through its port !!! Really? Friend, frankly tell us what you had in breakfast today? :-)
I think the Anerican Geberal needs a lesson in geography LOL
pakistan shuld not allow nato supplies... dey will gain attack our checkpost and will say dat it was a mistake... let dem use this option...
@Imran Ahsan Mirza: "This whole statement refelcts American frustrations with Pakistani military leadership. Anyone who knows the basic geography of the region knows that Indian route’s proposition is absurd."
I commend you for mentioning the Army leadership. This is the first comment I have seen where the entire responsibility is placed on the Army. Others would blame the government though they know well that it is the Army that is solely responsible.
Regarding geography of the region, It is only the very naive who would think and continue to think as you do. Geography has changed many times in the past and may change in the future also. Let me give you a few minor changes that may happen. I shall leave out the major change that could be possible.
(1) USA can store the supplies in Mumbai Port and air lift it to Afghanistan. (2) Who knows what are the real discussions going on with Iran. So, Iran port may also be used possibly as transporting Indian goods to Afghanistan. (3) Pakistan had gifted to China parts of Kashmir which connects Afghanistan. China can lease it to India or simply allow India to use the route to transport goods to Afghanistan. However, this is a difficult terrain and the routes may not be so convenient.
USA and NATO will have their way, one way or the other. Pakistan should use wisely any advantage it has. If it is used to harm others or as a hinderance to the progress of others, they may find alternatives.
Good luck USA! . Indian Army Chief's letter? Now I can see in retrospective! The US is encouraging Indian army and conspiring against Indian democracy, like it has always done in Pak to achieve its dirty aims. . Good Luck India!!
its impossible to supply goods through indian route because india has no border with Afghanistan
@Ozymandias: We deal with the US as equals. We don't expect aid from them - only high-tech weaponry and technology. Our relationship with the US has been mostly beneficial and we don't harbor terrorists either. So it is win-win situation for both sides.
I think that the US knows that using the India route and Northern Route, they will spend triple or quadruple the amount of money to get supplies through. I thought the US economy is suffering and they are in bad shape while trying to improve the situation at home. I doubt very much they want to spend more money they don't have.The problem is that Musharraf gave away transit fees through Pakistan for nothing and US is used to having Pakistani co operation for nothing. At least Pakistan should get a fair transit rate like Central Asian countries and Russia are charging - also Pakistan should get debt relief like given to all the European countries who are defaulting on loans.
If they have such an option , then , why they didn't used that earlier , but our brave rulers will not make them angry and will show their loyality to the americans by resuming supplies , and during blockage they served their masters through air .
that is exactly what we pakistanis want US to do.we are sick and tired of endless wars.we can not fight your wars for ever nor we want to prolong this bloody game anymore.now its time for india to fight american war and let us live alone.
To fly in by air it's costing NATO upto $1000 a Gallon for fuel - to supply their troops in Afghanistan
http://oilprice.com/Geo-Politics/International/Furious-at-Latest-U.S.-Attack-Pakistan-Shuts-Down-Resupply-Routes-to-Afghanistan-Permanently.html
So please do increase your reliance on air routes via India and the CAR's. LOL
@J Oberoi: The friendship of princes is a fickle thing Mr Oberoi. You'll learn that soon enough
ummm....will they teleport the goods into Afghanistan?
In longterm this is bad for Pakistan's security, could be Balochistan on its way out.
Although this maneuver looks quite implausible, I hope Indian government has the good grace and the good sense to return the huge favour Jack Kennedy did to India in the immediate aftermath of Chinese perfidy in Arunachal Pradesh in 1962, notwithstanding the endless, senseless Nehru rantings against US until then. This government is a successor government to his. It is incumbent upon it to extend all help that US requests that is humanly possible by us to render. Let no Indian forget that US is fighting a fascism that is creeping closer and closer to us. It is in our own larger interest to render a helping hand!
More than happppy if this happens :)) we pakistanis dont want the nato supply through pakistan anymore . period.
It's just a pressure tactic, nothing more. Pakistan has sacrificed enough.
Lol!! Route through India? For logistics in Afghanistan?? This is hilarious.
Welcome to conduct this mess from India
I hope India charge 50% tax to America.
pakistan require to take a decision instead holding general summit/late night gatherings - action must come earliest....no use of talking.
Why should India cooperate with the US over this quagmire? The US solely swung behind Pakistan during the jihad against the Soviets and now it has had a change of heart. US foreign policy is like a pendulum of blackmail.
Good luck go ahead now, lets ear some music from the east now, Taliban, Naxal's, Maoists and Kashmiri Mujahideen must be awaiting for that moment too
pressure tactic.
rofl good luck
Perhaps it's time for the USA to get off the fence and choose between who it really wants as a long term ally -- right now I think most American's would choose India hands down. This might be the best method of bringing stability to the region as it's getting clear that Pakistan's agenda is incompatible with Western goals.
As soon as Pak Govt (both Civilian and Army) see India helping US, they would jump the ship and rather help US themselves - so as Indians do not benefit!
Americans know how to get things done in Pakistan!
Brilliant trick but I have a gut feeling - it will work!
Not good for Pakistan. If that happens, why will America give any aid to us? How will we survive without aid?
ohh..nice one U.S....very well planned strategy where you involve the indians ...and the muslim extremists/Pakistan taliban blow themselves up in India...and India and the U.S declare war on Pakistan....Well Done..clap for those american policy makers.
Pakistan should never reopen the Nato supplies. Let them deal with India. Afghan Taliban have enough power to destroy India's peace in few days, if they make this deal with US. But Pak should never allow these supplies against their Muslim brothers.
This whole statement refelcts American frustrations with Pakistani military leadership. Anyone who knows the basic geography of the region knows that Indian route's proposition is absurd. It is only proposed to pressurise Pakistan to decide fast in American favour. Lets see how American leaders will deal with their ever growing populus against Afghan war when their leaders are proposing extra high costs through Inida. Pakistan should respond by saying "be my guest".
Good luck using that route.
What are friends for Mr.Obama?! We will gladly help you out in whatever way possible. We will also prove to be a much more reliable option.
LOL sure go ahead!! Now the Indians will definitely become enemy.
Be our guest... you are welcome to rely on whoever you want to; all options are unsustainable due to high cost that the American public has to bear... Good luck!
India has no border with afghanistan. Unless he is talking of air trans shipments.. Perhaps by sea to somewhere in India and then flown into afghanistan.