Leaked letter reveals India's military weaknesses

By AFP
Published: March 28, 2012

India's tank fleet lacks ammunition, its air defences are "97 percent obsolete" and its elite forces lack essential arms, the country's army chief wrote in an explosive letter. PHOTO: AFP/FILE

NEW DELHI: India’s tank fleet lacks ammunition, its air defences are “97 percent obsolete” and its elite forces lack essential arms, the country’s army chief wrote in an explosive letter leaked Wednesday.

The letter to the prime minister dated March 12 – widely reported by the Indian media – lists the shortcomings of the armed forces in embarrassing detail in a blow to the government and the Asian giant’s military prestige.

Its publication also ups the stakes in a public battle between army chief General VK Singh and the government which began with a dispute over Singh’s retirement earlier this year.

“The state of the major (fighting) arms i.e. mechanised forces, artillery, air defence, infantry and special forces, as well as the engineers and signals, is indeed alarming,” Singh wrote in the letter, DNA newspaper reported.

The army’s entire tank fleet is “devoid of critical ammunition to defeat enemy tanks”, while the air defence system is “97% obsolete and it doesn’t give the deemed confidence to protect… from the air,” he wrote, according to DNA.

The infantry is crippled with “deficiencies” and lacks night fighting equipment, while the elite special forces are “woefully short” of “essential weapons”.

Singh also told The Hindu newspaper this week that he had informed Defence Minister A.K Antony of a $2.8 million bribe offered to him in 2010, leading to embarrassing questions as to why the government did not order an enquiry.

Antony told parliament on Wednesday that he was aware of the letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and he would reply appropriately.

Reader Comments (121)

  • THE
    Mar 28, 2012 - 12:46PM

    Now all the Indian trolls will come on ET to tell us what’s wrong with Pakistan!

    Recommend

  • Ice Man
    Mar 28, 2012 - 12:52PM

    its a nice game by indian army to worry the ministries and government and the people! so that they will be allotted a bigger budget for procurement! indian army is not in a bad state at all. But this “open” letter creates a panic and will lead to increase in budget

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 12:59PM

    I want some comments from Indians on this piece of news too

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  • MarkH
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:11PM

    Not sure why people are waiting for Indian comments. Having nukes makes you invincible, right?
    (I have no faith in people to recognize the sarcasm without me pointing it out. So, yeah, sarcasm)

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 1:16PM

    @THE:
    hehehe yeah

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  • swapnil
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:21PM

    indian gov. must provide enough budget to the indian army and for its artillary. If there is even minute hole in our defence we wouldn’t be able to protect ourselves from pakistani terrorists and military forget china.

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  • Faesal
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:22PM

    Even if the state of Army is “Weak” which is not the case factually, it is “weak” compared to powers like US and China( to some extent) and NOT Pakistan. So, I find it preposterous when my Pakistani brothers needle Indian viewers to comment on this as if it saves their day.

    The reality is Arms race is biggest in this part of the region and if India talks about preparedness, it is not against Pakistan, but China. Pakistan doesn’t come into the picture.

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  • Tony Singh
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:23PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    Since you have asked for a comment here goes -
    1. Indian govt has its priorities right. More money is made available for education and healthcare (a lot more needs to be done anyway)
    2. With the equipment at its disposal, the MOD feels it can take care of any aggression from Pakistan.
    3.At least the Army chief has been forthcoming and not keeping the govt in dark on any issue.

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  • Mumbai Dude
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:27PM

    India is big time screwed up due to corruption.

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  • malatesh
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:30PM

    Its very shameful to hear corruption in defence system.

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  • Max-lol
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:30PM

    Not to worry, the rest 3% can kick anyone’s but.

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  • Gogle
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:30PM

    miiiiiind blowing!

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  • mahesh
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:34PM

    Then where is the money going?Recommend

  • Max-lol
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:35PM

    And you guys unnecessarily attribute violence in kashmir, Balochistan to our army and RAW.

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  • Ravish
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:36PM

    Exactly, we have pin pointed our weaknesses and we are not in a “denial mode” every time. Now we can concentrate on improving ourselves. Most things are publicly debated in India, like in any healthy democracy. Those expecting a retaliation from me I am sorry to disappoint you.

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  • chandran
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:38PM

    I think in my opinion like burma certain MP seats should be reserved for army also

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  • Hakeem
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:49PM

    a clever move by indian army chief, it will kill many birds with just one stone!

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  • Anas
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:53PM

    C’mon trolls do your thing. Or does your job description not include such articles??

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  • Usman
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:53PM

    Indian arymy is already consuming a major part of the their budget. So where the money is going.

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  • Someone
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:54PM

    Hahahaa I cant stop laughing at this, lolll

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 1:56PM

    Indians would not be avaialble to comment on this. LOLOX

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  • Sinclair
    Mar 28, 2012 - 1:57PM

    I think the letter is a gross exaggeration. Indian army is not all hunky dory, but is also not broken. The army chief is frustrated because his tenure was not extended (the date of birth issue). For this leak, if it is traced back to his office, he will probably be sacked. What a dishonorable way to go, for someone who said it was a matter of honor to get the DOB corrected.

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  • ashok sai
    Mar 28, 2012 - 2:11PM

    @Pakistan politics:

    Don’t worry, I will fulfil your wish,

    India : Army Chief writes to the President requesting upgrade of the hardware.

    Pakistn : President writes(begs) to the Army Chief pleading, ‘give something for us, the civilians’.

    Happy, now get over it.

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  • indian..
    Mar 28, 2012 - 2:33PM

    no comments…

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 2:41PM

    Oh, Now is the time to strike, Soldiers of Islam! Strike when the enemy is the least prepared!

    And oh on a separate note, the rest of the 3% Air Defense is legendary :’)

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  • WoW
    Mar 28, 2012 - 2:49PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    @THE:
    It shows how little you know about India. General VK Singh has been fighting to extend his tenor by one year. India (not Pakistan) flatly rejected this. Thereafter, he is creating all sorts of nuisance, And yes, if Indian Army has flaws, it will accept them and correct them. After all, India is not like its neighbor who is always in denial.

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  • Indian observer
    Mar 28, 2012 - 2:53PM

    Our pak friends want comments from an indian troll. So here goes…
    India budgets USD 40 billion on defence. Obviously there is enough preparedness. It is however the Army Chiefs duty to plug all loopholes( and there are many in every sphere of life) and to bring to the notice of the PM the requirements of policy and approvals.
    Unfortnately because of the extreme phobia and fear about corruption in govt procurements, all decision making of large, complex ,international and huge contracts are slow and delayed. Hence the Army’s concern.
    I dont think Indians are embarressed by the revealation of the letter. In fact it will ensure faster govt clearances of these purchases.
    Thank God we have a trnsparent society. In the long run it helps!Recommend

  • Kashmirian
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:06PM

    Indians are only interested to poke their noses in the internal matters of pakistan, they have no interest in the news of their own country.

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  • Truth
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:07PM

    hahaha.. 97% really?? no israel will not let it happen..

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  • Pankaj
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:07PM

    can someone believe this …lol

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  • Na
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:07PM

    @Anas:
    This is a wonderful. With basically nothing Indian jawans have won all the wars with its neighbor, halved it into two, helped from being slaughtered and fed 17,000 Pakistan soldiers who surrendered to them in 1971. Now it has (according to @Pakistan politics), a hand in yet again halving it. WELL DONE INDIAN JAWANS. Its know time to arm you to the teeth.

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  • Menon
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:33PM

    V.K. Singh should have been relieved of his duties as soon as he brought up the age issue. He signed completed the application in his own handwriting and signed it, then decades later he questions his own signature. Either he willfully lied or getting Alzheimer’s, in either case, he is unfit to be in command.

    A.K. Anthony should have immediately suspended Singh, A.K. showed he is not an administrator and unfit to be the Defense Minister, he is only fit to be a Human Development minister. Give defense to P.C or someone more hard nosed then him. The likes of Singh and A.K. Anthony will weaken the army and ridicule one of the well respected defense forces in the world.Recommend

  • Mar 28, 2012 - 3:37PM

    I appreciate Indian Army for having guts to file such “weaknesses” on a paper – unlike Pakistani Military which suffers denial syndrome.

    Daagh nahi to sekha nahi.

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  • Ahsan Raza
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:38PM

    Oh so all those Sukhois and F-24s are of no use ? What a Shame. Pakistan might be 1/4th of India’s size but there is an obvious reason why we were not assimilated and conquered. It’s the man behind the gun that counts

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  • some one
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:42PM

    now I understand why India started the “Aman Ki Asha” initiative. The strategy is to buy some time through this Aman Ki Asha thing and work out on making the army and Airfoce better and then when they are ready, the slogan will be “Jang Ki Asha”

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  • Cynical
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:52PM

    This the time to get Kashmir,recapture Bangladesh and Kargil.

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  • Senman
    Mar 28, 2012 - 3:59PM

    Pakistan Trolls will have a field day as usual, all the while blaming Indians as trolls.

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 4:03PM

    now you will see some big tickets purchases from indian army.

    this news is pakistan oriented. to make them happy and to give reason to the govt to shell out more money.

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  • Kumar
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:08PM

    Please, please, please… nobody mention this to Zaid Hamid !! He will start Ghazwa-e-Hind at once. He will hoist Pakistani flag on Red Fort. Please hide this newsitem from him dear Pakistanis !!

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  • Zahir Yousafzai
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:24PM

    No matter how weak Indian Army is our Political/Business Army can’t win a war against them and history has proven this.Recommend

  • THEE
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:25PM

    I am having so much fun looking at the comments from Indians on this news. Just wanted to be sure we are still singning Aman ki Aasha. LOL

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  • Wonderful
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:27PM

    To all the Paks: Thank you for the critics. The Indian Parliament has heard your concerns. Its coming in the news that they have given a go ahead for IMMEDIATE procurement of defense equipment worth billions of US$. Hope you are happy with this outcome.Recommend

  • PoorPeace!
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:33PM

    @Cynical:
    Please try we also want to see if your forces have now become capable to defeat 97% obsolete Indian army or will it again surrender to us as usual.

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  • Shankar
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:35PM

    India is swimming in scams and corruption scandals of a massive scale. All Indians know this. Why do you think there’s so much coverage for movements like Anna Hazare’s.

    No Indian will be surprised to read that the armed forces are ill-equipped. It’s common sense when corruption permeates every part of society. It’s old news.

    If it gladdens the hearts of Pakistanis, it’s good. At least something for them to cheer about.

    For me, it’s good for such things to be discussed so that corrections can be made and safeguards put in place.. It’s going to take a lot but this is the first step.

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  • Shankar
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:36PM

    Not sure why people here would think we wouldn’t comment. No Indian has ever denied these problems.

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  • Adil
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:39PM

    Hahahaha. The very first comment by ‘THE’ made the whole thing hilarious. Good luck India. We wish you well. Now, relax.

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  • adeel
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:41PM

    indian army learning from PAK Army…lolzz

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  • Adil
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:41PM

    And if the Indian army is suffering this much. Only God can help ours. Sigh.

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  • Mohammad
    Mar 28, 2012 - 4:45PM

    It is fine time to attack India and get the remaining of Kashmir.. !

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 4:58PM

    The question Pakistanis should ask is if the Army which defeated you guys 4 times(as recently as about 15 years ago), when it was not even financially well off, has problems and lacks weapons, how inadequate your own weapons must be.

    Ultimately, Army’s budget will grow with the Country’s GDP. Let us not jump the gun here. More money is not the problem but quicker acquisition of weapon systems and less of bureaucratic delay.

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  • Truth
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:00PM

    @Na:
    LOL, tell me a single war except 1971 which you really won?! Every time you tried to conquer Pakistan we beat the hell out of you!!Recommend

  • Cautious
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:07PM

    No surprise here – despite the nukes, the size, etc. India is still a 3rd World country and like every 3rd World country their military is based on size and bravado. Kudos to the army chief for writing a frank letter. Fortunately for India even with the deficiencies they still have enough to defend themselves from attacks from their neighbors.

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  • Hindustan ki shakti
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:09PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    its a nice game by indian army to worry the ministries and government and the people! so that they will be allotted a bigger budget for procurement! indian army is not in a bad state at all. But this “open” letter creates a panic and will lead to increase in budget.
    TODAY , INDIAN ARMY/AIRFORCE /NAVY IS SUFFECIANTLY EQUIPPED ENOUGH TO DEAL WITH THE ENEMIES LIKE PAKISTAN OR SMALL TIME LIKE SRILANKA/IRAN ETC ETC. THE MAJOR’S COMMENTS COME IN SITUATION SO THAT CORRUPT & LAZY INDIAN GOVT UTILISES FUNDS TO GEAR UP FOR DANGEROUS TACTICS OF PAKISTAN’S ( SO CALLED) ALL WEATHER FRIEND CHINA.
    THE PROOF OF ITS BRAVERY IS-
    VICTORY IN (1) 1965 WAR (2) 1971′S LIBERATION OF BANGLADESH & DEFEATING OF PAK ARMY WITH APPROX 1 LAKH PAKISTANI POW’S (3) KARGIL WAR.
    ALL THESE HAVE BEEN MISREPORTED BY PAKISTANI MEDIA AS PAKISTAN’S VICTORY AS THAT ERA WAS LACK OF INTERNET USAGE. THE MEDIA WAS STATE CONTROLLED.Recommend

  • Think otherwise.
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:24PM

    who broke us into half?
    14th august 1947. We snatched our right. We took your territory. We now rule it. Its called THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN. Don’t tell me you rule Bangladesh. Its a MUSLIM state. Where MUSLIMS live happily. You can’t get an inch back now.

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  • sk
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:28PM

    India is not modernizing the weapons as they have nuclear arsenals. This is sufficient enough for any war.

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  • vasan
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:32PM

    Think otherwise : First think. You didnt take anything from anyone, A line was drawn where u live and where Indians live, That is all. U could have east or west pakistan as a home till 1971. What happened in 1971 is another story. U just got split into two. Whether muslim country or not, it hardly matters. Try saying muslim country and go to Saudi,.U will understand. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS WE DONT WEAR OUR RELIGION ON OUR SLEEVES. So your ranting is irrelevant and pathetic.

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  • narayana murthy
    Mar 28, 2012 - 5:45PM

    The solution is not increasing the budget. The solution is to privatize weapon industry.

    Otherwise we will be wasting billions of valuable dollars on foreign countries.

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 5:53PM

    No wonder the Indians are spending big on their air fleet and defence mechanisms.

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 5:54PM

    @Elie Khan: I am available to say that India is a great democracy and we function as one. In India things are not swept under carpet and we discuss our security in public as it concerns us. We are neither in worship of our Army nor in condemnation. It is one of our institutions and we would keep it in good health. We are not the one who after being defeated in war will keep saying we have won we have won. Regards

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  • wonderer
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:00PM

    @Truth:

    If you wish to know the truth, please ask Najam Sethi or Pakistan’s world famous historian Ayesha Jalal.

    Then spread the truth you discover so that your fellow countrymen can also shine in the glow of TRUTH.

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  • shoaib
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:13PM

    Lol, So Pakistan is not a worry and china is? Seriously? India would have conquered Pakistan by now if Pakistani military wasn’t a problem. You rant about how India beat Pakistan in 1965 and 1999. In 1965, even with a five times bigger army, India could not conquer Pakistan. You people turned your backs and ran away when Pakistani forces retaliated in Lahore. We defended our country against a 5 times bigger country in size and population, so we consider that as a win. In 1999, Pakistan had control over Kargil. The only reason you were able to win that war was because Mr.Nawaz Sharif was pressurized by the American President.
    P.s. Despite of having a 4 time bigger Air force,India has not won a single air battle against Pakistan in any war. So please do not point fingers at us as you already have many flaws in your own country.

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  • Wonderful
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:21PM

    @Truth:
    Are you serious? Pakistan won wars with India? Do some research on the internet and you will find the ‘REAL’ Truth. It will open your eyes that your textbooks have been brainwashing and hiding the truth from Pakistanis.Recommend

  • Zoro
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:32PM

    It could be a good ploy to invite an attack from Pakistan.. so as India has a reason to inheliate Pakistan.. just to take a permenant step to stop cross border terrorism.. Bravo Gen SINGH… U have killed so many birds in one stone …
    Just the number of missiles we have are enough to take care of the most of Pakistan..no need of men on ground..nor Air Force

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  • unbeliever
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:38PM

    @shoaib:

    it seems that you have the best airforce in the entire world. why not use some of it to shoot down some odd drones in waziristan……

    although i understand, that you had upperhand in air battles, but ever tried to find out why: just because you had superior aircrafts back in 65 or 71, and no doubt your personnels were better trained back then…but a lot of water has flowed under the bridge since then..and were we sleeping for the last 40 years? certainly not.

    i would like to take this report as a moment that indian establishment should get ready to modernise itself, and should display new energy.

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  • Don Draper
    Mar 28, 2012 - 6:57PM

    The Indian army and its elite commandos looked pathetic when Ajmal Kasab and his brothers in arms terrorized Mumbai. They looked ill trained, ill equipped and overall incompetent. India and Pakistan should look at the Iranian Basij and their elite commando units for some inspiration.

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  • wonderer
    Mar 28, 2012 - 7:07PM

    @shoaib:

    Dear Sir,

    You seem to be an expert on what happened in 1965. Can you please tell me why your Military dictator (Ayub Khan, if I remember correctly) went to Tashkent to meet Indian Prime Minister, L. B. Shashtri? Please also tell me what happened after your dictator returned home?

    If you want to wash your brain clean, please get in touch with Najam Sethi. You can also Google YouTube for Najam Sethi and listen to him carefully. He will tell you all about all wars between india and Pakistan. It is good to listen to wise people.

    Happy listening!

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  • Deepwater
    Mar 28, 2012 - 7:10PM

    To those of you that talk about “India wanting to conquer Pakistan”: Where do you come up with such ideas? Is this what you were taught in school? `Do you have any rational basis for even thinking that?

    It is just this kind of siege mentality that results in your military being in charge of things there. The military is just the “chowkidaar” of the house. If you live in irrational fear of your neighbor, then the “chowkidaar” starts making all of the decisions. That is the condition of Pakistan.

    Indian politicians – whatever their faults – have always kept its military in its right place. Budget for the military is firmly in the hands of the elected ministers as it should be. It is a defensive military and, despite it being ill-equipped, no Indian lives in fear of being invaded. You need not either.

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  • In defence
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:02PM

    In India, there is a difference between actual budgetary allocation and actual spending. What everybody reads about Indian defense budget of so many billion dollar is just a budget. It is not a proof of actual expenses made. Due to allegation of corruption, defence purchases are going very very slowly, sometime not at all. This is what the Indian Army general is talking about. Sometimes, the very big ticket Indian defence spending comes from such accumulated allocation over the years. This is known to Pak army too, that the defense budget is not spent in India, but they just talk only about the budget itself.

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  • Pollack
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:13PM

    @shoaib: Who in their right minds would want to conquer and rule Pakistan with its problematic society and people? Maybe a suicidal society would try doing that.

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  • Pollack
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:16PM

    @Don Draper: The Basij are cannon fodder. Iran makes a lot of noise and it’s capabilities end there.

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  • j. von hettlingen
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:19PM

    With a population of over 1,2 billions India has even less diplomats abroad than New Zealand, a country of 4 millions. India enjoys a good standing on the international stage as an emerging economy but it doesn’t seem to share certain tasks with other global players. It’s unclear whether it doesn’t have the means or it doesn’t wanto to do so.

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  • Don Draper
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:31PM

    @Pollack

    The Iranians demonstrated how effective their riot police were during the protests in 2009. They looked fearsome in their black outfits and motorcycles and these were the Basij not their elite commandos. If you call that noise than you are just being ignorant and dismissive.

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  • Zahid Aslam
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:49PM

    @Ice Man: U r absolutly right man….This is a plan to increase defence budget….

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  • unbeliever
    Mar 28, 2012 - 8:59PM

    @Don Draper:

    really didn’t understand your point?
    for controlling riots they had to use deploy specially trained commandos?
    well, in india and pakistan(i presume for your country, sorry if i am wrong) just baton weilding policemans are sufficient to contain the worst kind of riot. sometimes PSCs are depoyed just to cool the situation down. and the iranians had to use commandos for that purpose..might be that rioters had a crash course in riot from some good institute.

    they might have looked fearsome to you for your own personal reasons…….

    to just appreciate, take examples of indian comandos in mumbai, and pakistani commandos at mehran base, it was difficult to contain them because they were well-trained militia men, not some odd rioter in iran..

    i hope i am clear.

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  • lashari baloch
    Mar 28, 2012 - 9:04PM

    @WoW:
    a haan we know the reality ,we also read times o india ..dont tell us

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  • Might be!
    Mar 28, 2012 - 9:34PM

    I think this is a clever ploy by India to hoodwink the Pakistanis into attacking Kashmir and then using that as a pretext to wage a war with Pakistanis and get back POK.Recommend

  • Reasonable
    Mar 28, 2012 - 9:53PM

    @Don Draper:

    “They looked fearsome in their black outfits and motorcycles and these were the Basij not their elite commandos”
    Hahahahahaha they looked fearsome in black outfits

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  • WoW
    Mar 28, 2012 - 10:15PM

    @lashari baloch:
    So to you TOI is the only newspaper in India.

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  • Mar 28, 2012 - 10:20PM

    @Ahsan Raza:
    Oh yeah! we had enough evidence of that in 1971. The men behind the gun! Lost half the country!

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  • Prabhjyot Singh Madan
    Mar 28, 2012 - 10:42PM

    Indian air force is safe. The air chief has been quiet about it. He has not said a word. If this episode wakes up the Indian politicians up, it is a good thing. It is better for some soul searching done in times of peace than a disaster in a future war. Sat Sri akal. Take care everyone

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  • Azad
    Mar 28, 2012 - 10:51PM

    It is common knowledge to Indians that there was massive corruption in defense procurement deals for many years starting from Bofors scandal involving Rajiv Gandhi. As an institution there was attempt to correct it by laying down a policy guidelines. Mr A.K .Antony present defense minister is known though out his public life as incorruptible which is acknowledged by even by all the opposition parties. Because his cautiousness in the defense deals for which he wanted to be transparent and above board he delayed procurement of defense supplies by years .This has caused serious setback to modernization. People in the middle who benefited in the past in defense deals have an ax to grind against A.K.Antony. A.K.Antony is the poorest of all the cabinet ministers .”Defence Minister A K Antony turned out to be the poorest of them all, declaring assets worth just Rs 1.82 lakh while his wife, Elizabeth, an officer in a semi-government concern, owns assets nearly worth Rs 40 lakhs including property in Kerala and a second-hand Wagon R car.”(Tribune newspaperhttp://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110904/main1.htm)
    He is one of the rare subcontinental politician untainted by corruption

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  • Pinto
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:14PM

    Very easy to fool this pakistanisRecommend

  • Binbin
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:15PM

    @Ahsan Raza:
    What is an F-24 ?

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  • Binbin
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:21PM

    @shoaib:
    Why do you believe India wants to “conquer” Pakistan ? India gains nothing by “conquering” Pakistan – you don’t have oil, any special minerals or even Gold that is worth taking. Just millions of fanatical Islamists and illiterate jobless people willing to blow themselves up! You flatter yourselves into believing that India wants to “Conquer” you – you have nothing that India wants.

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  • Azad
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:24PM

    @Don Draper
    ” India and Pakistan should look at the Iranian Basij and their elite commando units for some inspiration.”

    It is astonishing that anyone can find Iranian Basij as a model to emulate. Basij are equivalent to Nazi storm-trooper who terrorize young people of Iran in support of clerical dictatorship.
    They were involved in atrocities including shooting of student protestors, torture and execution of political dissidents .They also act as moral police who arrest young women for using too much make up, using lipsticks, incorrect length of chador , boys and girls mixing together.
    Amnesty international spotlighted the atrocities committed in support of the regime by Basij (http://m.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100625/OPINION/6250329/-1/WAP07&template=wapart&m_section=)

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  • Binbin
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:26PM

    @Don Draper:
    Yeah Basij and who are they ?? What experience do they have ??

    IF “looks” made soldiers great, every soldier would wear a cape and their underwear on the outside like Superman!

    Indian special forces have many thousands of hours of combat experience over their life times, compared to the Basij force which is mostly involved in chasing down protesters and beating up teenagers on the streets.

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  • Binbin
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:31PM

    @j. von hettlingen:
    Indian diplomatic core is a very specialized and selective group of people. .To really get into that service you have to score very high in the Indian civil services examination – a extremely competitive and difficult examination process. Plus extensive training and the requirement to necessarily learn a foreign language make it harder still for recruits.

    Most civil service applicants would rather take the easier job of joining the Indian Administrative or Police Services as it is more rewarding and powerful position with fewer demands compared to the Foreign Service.

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  • Don Draper
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:44PM

    @Indians

    Most Indian police and commando units look emaciated and sickly, they can hardly carry their weapons, let alone use them. They would be no match for the Iranians, who gained plenty of experience fighting the Iraqis for eight years.

    We all remember what happened to India in 1962 when China invaded Arunachal Pradesh and almost took the whole of Northeast India.

    Indian and Pakistani forces are both paper tigers that cannot fight their way out of paper bags.

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  • Sunil
    Mar 28, 2012 - 11:58PM

    Lol .. so you guys want comments from us. Well, I think this is the best time for you guys to grab kashmir and show us the ‘light’ of Islam.

    There you go. Comment made. Go, play with it now.

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  • Azad
    Mar 29, 2012 - 12:33AM

    @ Don Draper
    I am not aware that sickly and emaciated soldiers cannot fight. If the physical characteristics are the main requisite for fighting soldier the American would have defeated Sickly emaciated Vietnamese soldiers. LTTE would not have given hard time to Indian army and Sri Lankan Army

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  • harry stone
    Mar 29, 2012 - 1:14AM

    @Don Draper:

    You high lighted why PAK is considered to be a roque nation. Why India is view much more positively by the world than PAK. Why the world is much more willing to work with India than PAK.

    All in all very informative.

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  • Shankar
    Mar 29, 2012 - 1:42AM

    Don Draper: clearly you are clueless about history. China attacked India in 1962 to gett Aksai Chin FYI. India in return took over what is now Arunachal Pradesh.

    I agree our units are undernourished. We’re a poor country after all. Its not like we’re rolling in dough.

    As for the posts of Pakistanis here: India conquering Pakistan? Please stop fantasizing and get real. Not even if you begged us would we want it. Partition freed us from your nut job ideology, freed us to follow an independent modern democratic course. Read real history about the wars and not what your textbooks brainwash you with.

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  • Harry Stone
    Mar 29, 2012 - 3:09AM

    Maybe the US in the spirit of keeping balance in the region should provide the funds it once provided to PAK to India.

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  • Arjun
    Mar 29, 2012 - 3:46AM

    Slight correction: India retained the territory that’s now Arunachal Pradesh. China withdrew back to the McMahon Line after the war, while retaining Aksai Chin.

    Not sure why you’re bringing the Iranians into this. They’re a friendly neighbour and India has always had cordial relations with them going back thousands of years. And those relations remain healthy: they’re now accepting Indian Rupees in payment for their oil, to avoid the Western sanctions.

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  • Rajendra Rana
    Mar 29, 2012 - 3:50AM

    @Mohammad:
    Welcome , Indian army is waiting for that opportunity to liberate POK and Baluchistan

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  • ayesha
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:21AM

    @Mohammad: “It is fine time to attack India and get the remaining of Kashmir.. ! “

    Ayub Khan got a similar idea in 1965 when he thought Indian army was weak due to stback with China in 1962. Guess what, Indian army not only defended itself against Pak atack, it had more Pak territory under its control than Pak had Indian terroritory at the time of ceasefire.

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  • Rafi Ka Deewana
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:27AM

    It is what you call a Trojan Horse. The Indians think this the best time for Pakistan to attack India, and go through a repeat of 1971. Remember the hijacking of an Indian plane in 1970 that started it all? B for Bangladesh. B for Balochistan.

    But before you all jump, it is meant to be a joke.

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  • ayesha
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:31AM

    @shoaib: ” In 1965, even with a five times bigger army, India could not conquer Pakistan. You people turned your backs and ran away when Pakistani forces retaliated in Lahore. We defended our country against a 5 times bigger country in size and population, so we consider that as a win. In 1999, Pakistan had control over Kargil. The only reason you were able to win that war was because Mr.Nawaz Sharif was pressurized by the American President.

    You were told that Pakistan defended Lahore. You were told that India attacked Pakistan in 1965. The truth is Pakistan attacked India. India retaliataed. India had more Pak territory nder its control tyhan Pak had Indian territory. Not sure how you describe that as a victory. The 5 times bigger or not would be relvant if India had attacked you. If you attack India then the 5 times bigger enemy is not a credible excuse to explain why you did not meet your ar objectives.

    In 1999 again you were attackers. Attacker always has an advantage. So you had initially captured Kargill but Indian army had recaptured it. It is only when Indian army sstarted kicking your butt hat Nawaz Sharif had to run to US for a unilateral ceasefire. As far as pressure from Clinton – he was trying to pressurise both Vajpayee and Nawaz Sharif to enter ceasefire because he was worried that there could be a nuclear war. Vajpayee refused because India had been attacked and he said we will nto stop until we claim every inch of our territory back. Nawaz saw the tharashingPakistanis were geting and agreed to a unilateral ceasefire.

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  • Pakistani
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:45AM

    @Shankar:
    So the books that u are reading tell u the real story. Mr scholar. Lol

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  • ayesha
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:48AM

    I am an Indian ‘trol’. Here is what I feel about this issue.
    In India, problems are looked at as opportunities for improvement and hence no-one lies when there are problems to the Indian public..
    In Pakistan army and leadership lies to its people:
    – In 1965 they said India had attacked Pakistan when in fact the truth was opposite. TO this day Sept 6 is celebrated as ‘Defence Day’ in Pakistan.
    – On 16th Dec 1971 Yahya Khan was telling Pakistani ‘Inshallah, victory will be ours’.
    – In 1999 Pak ISPR was telling journalists that Pak army is not involved in Kargill it is local freedom fighters and mujahideen. They even refused to take back the dead bodies of their own soldiers to keep up with the lie.
    – In 2008 Zardari told Americans go ahead and use drones, we will make noise internally for public consumption
    – In 2011 after Salala the army chief said “Drones will no longer be allowed”. The air chief said we have the capacity to shoot drones down. Have drones stopped? No.

    Do you think I am ashamed about Indian army’s honesty? No. You can be proud about the lies you have been told the choice is yours.

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  • Zeta
    Mar 29, 2012 - 5:22AM

    these particular indians here are bunch of phony people living in fantasy ideal world while 80% of them suffer extreme poverty. violence is going on in center and south yet all these bunch cares is whats happening in Pakistan.

    They are more worried about social system in Pakistan then say Gurgaoun where women outside home have 90%+ chance of getting raped.

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  • O B Server
    Mar 29, 2012 - 5:29AM

    @ Cynical & Mohammad: Do not wish for war please. Pray for peace!
    24 Pakistani soldiers killed by NATO! How many Nato soldiers were injured or killed in the incident? So much for Pakistan’s own defenses and effectiveness!

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  • Its (still) the Economy Stupid
    Mar 29, 2012 - 6:04AM

    Some Congress leaders felt that the letter leak was aimed not so much at tarnishing the Army Chief’s image but to snatch Antony’s halo.

    He was Sonia Gandhi’s strong choice for the President of India’s office. “Someone has deliberately targeted Antony through the letter. He must do something to assert his authority, bring the defiant Army chief to heel,” said a union minister close to Antony.

    So it seems that someone leaked the letter to eliminate Mr Anthony as a potential candidate for the upcoming President of India elcetion. All parties are right now going through screening of the potential candidates.

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  • Zalmai
    Mar 29, 2012 - 7:04AM

    @Shankar
    I think you are reading the Indian version of Sino-Indian war of 62, which says that India took Arunachal Pradesh from China. Come now, we all know that is rubbish. Here is the real story.

    China and India shared a long border, sectioned into three stretches by Nepal, Sikkim (now Indian state of Sikkim) and Bhutan, which follows the Himalayas between Burma and what was then West Pakistan. A number of disputed regions lie along this border. At its western end is the Aksai Chin region, an area the size of Switzerland, that sits between the Chinese autonomous region of Xinjiang and Tibet (which China declared as an autonomous region in 1965). The eastern border, between Burma and Bhutan, comprises the present Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh (formerly the North East Frontier Agency). Both of these regions were overrun by China in the 1962 conflict.

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  • Shankar
    Mar 29, 2012 - 7:43AM

    Pakistani: So the books that u are reading tell u the real story. Mr scholar. Lol

    @Pakistani: You don’t have to read Indian books. Read books by whoever you want, even Chinese ones. Common sense even, will tell you who attacked whom for what reason and what the outcome was – there is a reason Kashmir is still part of India, Pakistani military adventurism notwithstanding.

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  • Binbin
    Mar 29, 2012 - 9:41AM

    @Don Draper:
    This coming from so called super warriors of Iran who couldn’t even defeat Saddam after 8 years of running up and down the desert and fighting like animals even with ALL the American weapons Uncle Sam gave the Shah? Using trench warfare, human wave attacks and World War 1 tactics is something not even Afghan warlords used. This from people who’s greatest weapons is not its military threat but is the threat of using “terrorists” to attack other countries ? Tell us what “great” accomplishment did nearly a decade and millions of dead Iranian soldiers bring to Iran ? Did you gain even 1 sq km ? Did Iran remove Saddam Hussein ?Yeah – great warriors indeed!! The “abilities” of Indian special forces speak for themselves, they do need to look good on tv, that’s not their job – that “job” is for the Iranian special forces because TV is about the only contact they will ever have with their enemy!

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  • Binbin
    Mar 29, 2012 - 9:54AM

    @Zeta:
    Yeah, you are the “only” real person who cares about the poor in India and the “women” in Gurgaon because you know look at all the prosperity in Pakistan and all the freedoms women enjoy in Pakistan. Clearly, we need “you” to teach us all you can because we are doing such a terrible job in India treating our women like human beings and giving them opportunities to be independent and free while our “poor” people get guaranteed employment and access to free education and healthcare so they don’t have to sell their kids as suicide bombers or to terrorists as cannon fodder!

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  • Mar 29, 2012 - 10:00AM

    @shoaib: But Sir, who told you that India wanted to conquer Pakistan. You are born after our assent and out of our freewill. Parents spank their unruly children but do not kill them Sir.

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  • Phajja NAI
    Mar 29, 2012 - 10:36AM

    @Shankar: @Pakistani: You don’t have to read Indian books. Read books by whoever you

    And you think You read the books? Of course , You Only read books that favor you. Look. Aristotle, If there is a reason that Kashmir is still part of India then Let me show you a bigger reason that Whole Muslim Bengal and Pakistan is also not part of Hindu India. How about that? Have your Little mind concentrated on that as to why these areas no longer belong to India any more? And they are way bigger than Kashmir. By the way Do have part of Kashmir and so has China.. Have you ever tried to take that part back from China , Mr.Hercules. I still Wonder as to why it is still part of China? LOL. At least Pakistan tried to take the rest back But you did not even try .. and when you did once in 1962 …We all Know What happened. It was the only time when your size matched with China and the entire world saw Who was the Winner. .:) Change the books you read and get some Chinese writer
    s books translated in English. You will know you history better that Way.LOL

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  • Shankar
    Mar 29, 2012 - 10:48AM

    @Zalmai: You missed my correction. Yes, India didn’t take over AP in 1962. It retained the region – China calls it Tawang and until today it’s on of the disputes. If China had overrun the region, then Arunachal Pradesh as a state would not exist today. BTW, in our textbooks, it’s quite clearly explained that India lost that war. It was the first war India ever faced and since Nehru was focused on development, Indian armed forces had not been prepared at all.

    India’s search for a nuclear bomb also can be traced to this war. After China acquired nukes in the 60s, India did the same by 71.

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  • abdulazeez
    Mar 29, 2012 - 12:10PM

    dear pakistanis, this is the best time to attack India. come and enjoy your defeat.

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  • Yash
    Mar 29, 2012 - 12:17PM

    @Phajja NAI:

    pakistan tried to take back??…gimme a break…read about shagskam valley…which pakistan GIFTED to china as a “goodwill” gesture….

    look dude…dont show ur hypocrisy

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  • Mar 29, 2012 - 1:45PM

    Will the Army chief be sacked to make a ‘confidential’ letter public??

    Its the question of civilian supremacy. Indians are fed with lies about the invincibility of their army. In-fact this army was bludgeoned by a rag tag militia when our tribal lashkars over ran a substantial part of kashmir. They were about to run over Sri Nagar when India ran to UN like a cry baby. In 1962, the Chinese army gave Indian army a good spanking, which they even remember to this day, again India went to UN crying. In 1965 our 2 platoon (150 brave soldiers) kept at bay one division (18,000 men) and the ‘timid’ Indian soldiers could not even cross BRB canal what to talk about entering Lahore. This time again, India went to UN with its tail between its legs, crying. In Kargil war more than 10,000 indian troops were killed, so many that the entire India could not manage so many coffins which needed to be imported. With this track record Indian army needs to be disbanded.

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  • Jas
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:27PM

    @BruteFart:
    I see you conveniently left out 1971. All other episodes were mere border skirmishes. 1971 was as decisive as it gets. Denial and delusion is bliss!!!!

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  • Akash
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:28PM

    @Phajja NAI, get educated before you have discussion or debate with Indians. Please do not bring shame on your compatriots.
    By the way it is not Hindu India it is secular India. You may quote few isolated incidents but the fact is we have more muslims and growing by the day than Pakistan and Bangladesh, while you kill yours on a daily basis.

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  • G. Din
    Mar 29, 2012 - 4:45PM

    @chandran:
    “I think in my opinion like burma certain MP seats should be reserved for army also”
    Very very bad idea! Uniforms have no place in any august house, let alone Parliament of India. It will cause a huge damage to the armed forces themselves as the rest of the Parliament will not carry any weight in matters military. And, those representing the armed forces will not carry the clout of numbers that is necessary.

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  • ppp
    Mar 29, 2012 - 6:41PM

    @BruteFart:

    while india lost all those territories to china going down in a war(yes we were defeated),

    what your army did:

    it handed all that chinese demanded on a platter, and even surrendered their claim on aksai chin……

    well, i am proud at the loss that our army had, and the sacrifices that our soldiers made:
    have you got anything which your army won for you: none, none you will always have.

    when you have spare time try to read memoirs of ayub khan: he writes that chinese made them, almost at gunpoint, to stop claiming that area and even took your territory….Recommend

  • bharat
    Mar 30, 2012 - 11:05AM

    oh great day for Pakistanis, just dont forget you are one of the failed states of the world. the only country you should really compare with is Chad and Sudan.

    Even Central African republic is better than you

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  • azam
    Mar 30, 2012 - 4:03PM

    We are three nil down, its time to balance some scores…but this time it should be a nuclear adventure.

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  • Logical Conclusion
    May 25, 2012 - 3:30AM

    Yet again the Indian trolls are galvanised to mock Pakistan, just as they like to point out that partition was great for India since it cut out the ‘fanatics’ who were unwilling to accept their Hindu ancestors etc. etc. All the while claiming that Pakistanis are obsessed with India. A cursory glance of the comments revelas quite the opposite is true. What are you trying to achieve, brother Indians? If you are what you say you are, these constant explanations by your side would be unnecessary. In my view, they indicate that partition has cut some deep wounds and you simply cannot come to terms with Pakistan’s existence, much less even attempt to enjoy peaceful relations with it. You are talking to your yourselves in the comment section. I hope you are convinvced of your own arguements

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  • May 25, 2012 - 9:44AM

    It is great to see that this article has attracted such massive and elaborate comments from both side of border. Every one has to please note that in India things are discussed so openly and with out any bar. Our army has a rightful place in a democratic set up and thats it. No over importance to Generals etc nor under importance. At right times it has played the right role like any other democratic institution of our country. There is nothing to get over excited. Weaknesses including corruption,communal forces, shortages, improvements, achievements and failures are for open discussion under constant watch of the people who have to vote. Regards.

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