Insecure minorities: Pakistani Hindus seek safety in India

By AFP
Published: March 6, 2012

In this photograph taken on January 29, 2012, Hindu devotees worship at the Manher Mandir temple in Karachi. PHOTO: AFP

KARACHI: Preetam Das is a good doctor with a hospital job and a thriving private clinic, yet all he thinks about is leaving Pakistan, terrified about a rise in killings and kidnappings targeting Hindus.

A successful professional, he lives in megacity Karachi with his wife and two children, but comes from Kashmore, a district in the north of Pakistan’s southern province of Sindh.

His family has lived there for centuries and in 1947 when the sub-continent split between India and Pakistan, Das’ grandparents chose to stay with the Muslims.

They fervently believed the promise of Pakistan’s founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah that religious minorities would be protected. Sixty years later, their grandson says life in Kashmore has become unbearable.

“The situation is getting worse every day,” he says.

Two of his uncles have been kidnapped and affluent Hindus are at particular risk from abduction gangs looking for ransom, he says.

Rights activists say the climate is indicative of progressive Islamisation over the last 30 years that has fuelled an increasing lack of tolerance to religious minorities, too often considered second class citizens.

Das says the only thing keeping him in Pakistan is his mother.

“She has flatly refused to migrate, which hinders my plans. I can’t go without her,” he said.

Hindus make up 2.5% of the 174 million people living in Pakistan. Over 90% live in Sindh, where they are generally wealthy and enterprising, making them easy prey for criminal gangs.

An official at the ministry of external affairs in New Delhi who declined to be named said: “Every month about eight to 10 Hindu families migrate from Pakistan. Most of them are well-off.”

He had no comment on whether the number was on the rise, but Hindu community groups in Pakistan say more people are leaving because of kidnappings, killings and even forced conversions of girls to Islam.

“Two of my brothers have migrated to India and an uncle to the UAE,” said Jay Ram, a farmer in Sindh’s northern district of Ghotki. “It’s becoming too difficult to live here. Sindhis are the most tolerant community in the country vis-a-vis religious harmony, but deteriorating law and order is forcing them to move unwillingly,” he added.

Ramesh Kumar Vankwani, chief of the Pakistan Hindu Council and a former lawmaker for Sindh province, said Hindus are picked on by kidnappers and that their daughters are subject to forced conversions to Islam.

“Every now and then we get reports of families migrating. It’s getting worse now. People are extremely harassed and are forced to leave their homeland but our rulers are shamelessly idle,” he told AFP.

Rights activists also say Hindus in Sindh are discriminated against.

“Recently 37 members of five Hindu families migrated to India from Thul town owing to discrimination while three Hindus, including a doctor, were murdered in Shikarpur district,” said Rubab Jafri, who heads Sindh’s Human Rights Forum. “Lots of violent incidents are happening daily. Most go unreported, which shows vested interests are trying to force Hindus to leave Pakistan.”

According to the Pakistan Hindu Seva, a community welfare organisation, at least 10 families have migrated from Sindh every month since 2008, mostly to India, but in the last 10 months, 400 families have left.

Another survey last year by the local Scheduled Caste Rights Movement said more than 80 percent of Hindu families complained that Muslims discriminated against them by using different utensils when serving them at food stalls.

“Hindu migration is a brain-drain for Pakistan as most of them are doctors, engineers, agriculturists, businessmen and intellectuals,” Jafri said.

But the provincial authorities are reluctant to recognise a problem.

“I do admit that law and order in some districts of Sindh is quite bad, but it is bad for everyone and not just my community, the Hindus,” Mukesh Kumar Chawla, provincial minister for excise and taxation, told AFP.

“Hindus do not migrate in flocks as has been claimed and those who migrate are going abroad for a better fortune,” he said.

Reader Comments (92)

  • amit
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:08AM

    come here in india and there are lot of living and running their business and sindhi community in india is one of the most welthiest community in india .

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  • Pakistani Agnostic
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:13AM

    Not only hindus, everyone wants to migrate from the rural areas. Pakistani government should at least, if not guarantee security, should send all of the Hindus to India with financial aid.
    That way, we can earn their good will.

    I wonder who will the kidnappers target next.

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  • Rahul Tekchandani
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:21AM

    They shouldnt expect anything better from this congress govt. that can accomodate 2 million illegal bangladeshis for minority votes but turns a blind eye to kashmiri pundits and sindhi hindus.Better seek asylum in European and American countries.Recommend

  • unbeliever
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:42AM

    please come back to india fast. maybe you will not have much economic opportuinties being migrants, but atleast you will be safe and your girls will not be not be kidnapped just for being hindus.

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  • Arindom
    Mar 6, 2012 - 12:00PM

    Sad…..

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  • Mar 6, 2012 - 12:31PM

    Couple of days ago, one of my cousin’s husband named Mahesh Kumar was kidnapped from the city of Ghotki in Sindh. :(

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  • Arijit Sharma
    Mar 6, 2012 - 12:56PM

    The day the last minority person leaves Pakistan, it will be lights off – different sects of Islam will turn on each other – now at least they have these hapless people to torment.

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  • ramanan
    Mar 6, 2012 - 12:59PM

    Can somebody tell me if they know of any organization working for their rehabilitation in India.

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  • zalim singh
    Mar 6, 2012 - 1:12PM

    india should welcome them and help them. And how many Indian muslims will settle in Pakistan?

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  • Yogesh
    Mar 6, 2012 - 1:15PM

    Bravo ! Its time for other Hindus too to follow the wise decision too, this sindhi regionalism won’t take them anywhere in religious pakistan.

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  • Mar 6, 2012 - 1:49PM

    It is kidnapping for money in Sindh, In others parts of Pakistan, it is religious fundamentalists. We stand an example of a country spoiled by Islam and nothing but Islam. First Hindus, next Christians, then Shias and then Ahmedis and finally minority sects leave this country. You can understand now why the world hate Pakistan and why we feel shame to be called Pakistanis. Yet the political leaders do not care about thee things.

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  • unbeliever
    Mar 6, 2012 - 2:02PM

    @ramanan:
    maybe not, but these are industrious people, they know how to look after themselves

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  • Mar 6, 2012 - 2:10PM

    They can be shifted to J&K. Since, Pakistanis consider Kashmiris to be Pakistanis they should not object.

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  • Aarvey,india
    Mar 6, 2012 - 2:17PM

    Not one Pakistani Muslim has chosen to comment on atrocities committed on the Hindu and other minority communities. I think India should look at seriously reversing it’s policy of not allowing non Kashmiris to buy property in Kashmir and encourage settlement of Hindus and other communities in Kashmir.

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  • Proud pakistani
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:12PM

    This is just NOTHING.Muslims living in Kashmir are victims of Indian atrocities and brutalities since 1947. So stop being innocent.Ask India to stop violence in Kashmir and ask ur beast army to get out of kashmir.Recommend

  • Z.Khan
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:27PM

    Deep analysis of such situation in fact gives a big slap on the face of so called democratic Pakistan. Because of religious based persecution Ahmadies already leaving the country. Now Hindus to India, Christians to Western Countries, later Shia migrating to Iran. Then turn will come Deobandis to Saudi Arabia and so on. After all where this phenomenon will stop. Is there any Strongman who has the courage to think deeply on this point and can come forward to stop all this nonsense.

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  • farhan
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:30PM

    Its a grave situation. We are all Pakistani irrespective of caste and religion (no 1st class / 2nd calss citizen, all are equal). Therefore, Govt. / admin. must immediately look into the matter as security and well bieng of citizens is the prime responsibility of Government.

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  • Lion Heart
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:31PM

    Dear Readers,

    This is what separates the people of India from Pakistan. Welcome to India my Hindu friends from Pakistan. We are not a rich country because of our population and cannot promise material happiness to you but you shall definitely get the warmth of our people and the safety of a place called home. No matter how bad we are as a country we shall always be better than Pakistan

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  • ZYX
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:38PM

    Another day and another story even when there is no “news” per say, just have to put something on the front page with the words “hindu”, “minority” and “fear” together somehow. Its standard practice when you’re trying to create an atmosphere, you repeat repeat repeat. congrats Hindus, you’ve been ET’d.

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  • Silent Observer
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:54PM

    We shold stop thinking ourselves as leaders of Ummah and saviours of Muslims all over the world. We should adopt the policy of neutralism i.e niether we will interfere in other`s matters nor others let to dictate us on any basis…and all the minorities should be given full freedom and equal rights to practice their religion. i for once wouldn’t like any Christian, Hindu or Sunni/Shia to suffer in Pakistan in the name of Islam.

    Islam is perfect Muslims of today are not!!!

    Allah have some mercy on Pakistan and let all live freely & united under one flag!

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  • Pak Hindu-Muslim
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:56PM

    Pakistan is having a tough time in general since this war began – It has taken a toll on each community, unfortunately. This is not the complete picture, so it misrepresents an entire nation. Our people are warm and big-hearted, it is a pity that everything is portrayed in this light only.

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  • United India
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:56PM

    Please come back to india fast.India should welcome them and help them.Soon all pakistani muslim brothers will come to India.WE WILL SEE UNITED INDIA .Peshwar to Kolkatta–Kashmir to Kanyakumari.ALL HINDUS & MUSLIMS AS BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

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  • AN
    Mar 6, 2012 - 3:57PM

    @Pakistanis The violence against muslims is justified in Kashmir as they are the first initiate violence against Hindus.

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  • vasan
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:03PM

    Proud Pakistani : How many times do u chant kashmir in a day, which is a lost cause for Pakistan, anyway.

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  • wahab
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:09PM

    The situation is actually bad for every one and not just hindus. But if Hindus are specifically targeted, they should hold their minority MPA by collar. Minorities have been given seats in all assemblies, yet there rulers have failed to addres their issues. After this article, IG sindh should take notice of situation and address grievances so that these pakistani brothers feeel safe!

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  • MUNIB
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:10PM

    @proudpakistani

    what INDIAN behaviour in KASHMIR has to do with Hindu Pakistaniz who own PAKISTAN as much as Muslims in PAK own it . Kindly read constitution and comment

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  • Alina
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:19PM

    Hindus! Even Muslims wants to Migrate! the government cant protect anyone. I am a Muslim and my mother was murdered by robbers on the street. Even i want to go! This is not a Hindu Specific problem. Muslims are afraid too.We want Jinnah’s secular Pakistan. what was the use of independence if Muslims in India and Bangladesh are better off????

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  • Rajendra Rana
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:22PM

    @Pakistani Agnostic:
    also take all Muslims from India back to Pakistan their original country

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  • Alina
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:23PM

    Sad News! Hindu Pakistanis are our brothers and Sisters. Pakistan should be secular. But this bad situation is being faced by Muslim Pakistanis too. Many Muslim Pakistanis are migrating to UK, Canada and USA.

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  • Mahira
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:26PM

    Sad news! but does India accepts these people? i don’t know if it does. Many Indian Muslims are coming to Pakistan too. Many of my relatives are still moving to Pakistan. This is sad news though. Hindus, Muslims and Christians are equal!!!!!

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  • Rajendra Kalkhande
    Mar 6, 2012 - 4:54PM

    Is Pakistan safe for anyone? Almost all political leaders are forced to live outside in exile at one time or the other. Even most respected religious leaders are Mr Ghamdi had to leave Pakistan. If a survey is conducted honestly, 90% of Pakistanis will leave their country and settle in Europe or USA.

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  • Big bad paki
    Mar 6, 2012 - 5:02PM

    @Rajendra Rana:

    So the “secular” india is a mirage huh? Is it a Hindu state in your opinion? And what about the fact that Muslims have ruled India for far longer than Hindus have? Does that have any bearing on your thinking?

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  • arjun
    Mar 6, 2012 - 5:05PM

    @AN:
    same process was done with Kashmir Pundits which has resulted in trouble. You cannot eradicate ancient cultures and religions for islam. The religion that came last will adjust with other religions- not demand nation on the basis of it. The Pakistan went a step further and committed bigger crime of eradicating those cultures and religions. There is a limit to tolerance.Patience of Hindus is being taken for granted- now even intellectuals in the society of Pakistan do not have an answer for its troubles-what a helpless state.If India does ask for its “land” as in case of tibet like China has shamelessly done, current Pakistanis will have to leave Pakistan. Recommend

  • Anwar
    Mar 6, 2012 - 5:16PM

    It is sad to read reports like this. But then, what can you say when the word “secular” is considered a bad word? I only hope religion can deliver on its promise – somehow, I think not.

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  • arjun
    Mar 6, 2012 - 5:24PM

    @Big bad paki:
    Get facts right….and history right. Who taught you that muslims ruled India more than Hindus? Do you know when muslims came and how long India was Hindu nation. ? another example f distorted school syllabus for islam. You might be better know that that islam excess is causing this trouble -sooner or later thats the truth as none is expecting you to agree to this comment.

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  • Kamran Hashim
    Mar 6, 2012 - 5:48PM

    Hey Express Tribune, get a life and stop copying
    most of the content or maybe all of it had been copied from NewsWeek.

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  • Chaudhry
    Mar 6, 2012 - 6:33PM

    My pakistani hindu brothers… dont listen to the indian mafia.. Pakistan is as much yours as it is to us… Kidnapping, ransom is making life difficult for you but this is also affecting communities.. .In difficult times, you dont leave your home but fight against your rights… Yes, we have problems but rest assured, Pakistan will come through this… Believe me…

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  • Sunny
    Mar 6, 2012 - 6:35PM

    @unbeliever:

    First give equal rights to low caste Hindus before offering equal rights to someone coming to your country.

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  • Sunny
    Mar 6, 2012 - 6:36PM

    @Aarvey,india:
    Please read the treads carefully before making rash comments…

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  • John B
    Mar 6, 2012 - 6:47PM

    PAK is a Muslim country and as such there are no real rights for religious minoririties.

    Hindus in PAK represent the vestiges of PAK’s two nation theory and as such no real majority in PAK will stand up for minority religious rights.

    Majority never stood up for the minority rights? Why should they? Romans never stood up for Spartans’ rights, Jews never stood up for Samaritans, Whites never did for blacks, Hindu high class never did for so called Dalits, Germans (frankly,most Europe) never did for Jews, Chinese never did for Tibetians, Sinhalese never did for Tamilians, Bangladeshis never did for Biharis, and so on. So, Muslims of PAK are no exception. Minorities in PAK has to unite behind one cause and fight for their rights.

    Everywhere in the world, it is always the minorities who fought for their rights.

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  • Mar 6, 2012 - 6:49PM

    @Sunny:
    They (low caste hindus) have constitutionally protected rights.
    Till yesterday, the chief minister (the highest elected executive of a state) of UP is a dalit.
    She was elected fair and square, and was defeated not because she being a dalit, but because of her incompetency.
    Now, can you or your ilk give equal rights to the Ahmedis, or is that to much to ask of??

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  • amit
    Mar 6, 2012 - 6:54PM

    @Sunny:
    are you real?who told this cra#.in india 50% seats in education sector is reserved for low cast hindus how many seat is reserved for paki hindus and ahmediyaa and shiya muslim in education sector..and our country low cast hindus litteracy rate is higher than islam kila pakistan total .and get your fact right 30% india rule by low caste hindus . how many state rule by pakistani hindus and ahmediyaa ?

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  • gp65
    Mar 6, 2012 - 7:27PM

    @Rajendra Rana: “@Pakistani Agnostic:
    also take all Muslims from India back to Pakistan their original country”
    Wrong Indian Muslims are Indians first and entitled to full state protection. We are NOT like the PROudPakistani who justifies denying protection to a fellow Pakistani due to their faith. This is the difference between India and Pakistan. IT is a good difference and we should keep it.

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  • Indian
    Mar 6, 2012 - 8:06PM

    @amit:
    “india 50% seats in education sector is reserved for low cast hindus”Sorry to interrupt your flow bro, its 50% seats reserved for all the minorities including muslims, christians etc etc.. Some state even have reservations for physically handicapped as in Karnataka!!! Hope you remember the joke running around these days – What did Mr. Singh say to Obama on how many Indians would go to the moon mission, Singhji replied – 10 members out of which 2 Scheduled castes, 2 scheduled tribes, 4 Other Backward Castes, 1 physically handicapped and 1 qualified astronaut!!!

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  • Gunjan
    Mar 6, 2012 - 8:14PM

    If we can give shelter to Muslim Bangladeshis who crosses border illegally and than we also give them Voter+ Ration Card. Then Why Indian Govt cant provide Shelter to Hindus in Pakistan… After all they are Hindus n basically n truely Indians…

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  • arjun
    Mar 6, 2012 - 8:21PM

    @gp65:
    well said. Indian muslims are Indians and are different from Pakistanis after 60 years.

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  • Babloo
    Mar 6, 2012 - 8:46PM

    It took 65 years for the population of Hindus in Pakistan to be reduced from 22-25% to about 1%.
    Hopw long will it take to wipe out the remaining traces ?

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  • well-wisher
    Mar 6, 2012 - 10:06PM

    Govt of India should urgently pass a legislation in Parliament to allow Hindus and Sikhs who want to migrate to India. This is only way we can help our brothers and sisters suffering at the hands of intolerant lot in Pakistan.

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  • Sunny
    Mar 6, 2012 - 10:35PM

    @amit: oh please…… Don’t give me this story…… Kis duniya mein rah rahay ho meray baji??

    Human rights abuses against these people, known as Dalits, are legion. A random sampling of headlines in mainstream Indian newspapers tells their story: “Dalit boy beaten to death for plucking flowers”; “Dalit tortured by cops for three days”; “Dalit ‘witch’ paraded naked in Bihar”; “Dalit killed in lock-up at Kurnool”; “7 Dalits burnt alive in caste clash”; “5 Dalits lynched in Haryana”; “Dalit woman gang-raped, paraded naked”; “Police egged on mob to

    “Dalits are not allowed to drink from the same wells, attend the same temples, wear shoes in the presence of an upper caste, or drink from the same cups in tea stalls,” said Smita Narula, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch, and author of Broken People: Caste Violence Against India’s “Untouchables.” Human Rights Watch is a worldwide activist organization based in New York.

    India’s Untouchables are relegated to the lowest jobs, and live in constant fear of being publicly humiliated, paraded naked, beaten, and raped with impunity by upper-caste Hindus seeking to keep them in their place. Merely walking through an upper-caste neighborhood is a life-threatening offense.Recommend

  • Sunny
    Mar 6, 2012 - 10:41PM

    More than 50 years after caste discrimination was outlawed in India, millions of “untouchable” low-caste Hindus remain subject to daily petty humiliations, police violence, rape and even murder, a major new report claimed yesterday.
    Despite India’s massive economic advances of the last decade, it is estimated that a crime is still committed against a Dalit every 20 minutes in India.

    The report, by New York-based Human Rights Watch, paints a sorry picture of life for 165 million low caste Hindus in the world’s most populous democracy. They continue to experience discrimination at home, at school, in the workplace – even in refugee camps after the 2004 tsunami.
    Research published last year from surveys in 565 Indian villages showed that in 80 per cent of them old practices of untouchability endure and are “profoundly affecting” the psyches of Dalit residents.

    In September last year a Dalit family in Maharastra State was murdered by a mob for refusing to allow upper-caste families to take their land. The women of the family were stripped, beaten and paraded naked through the village

    NEED I SAY MORE

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  • Mumbai Kid
    Mar 6, 2012 - 10:47PM

    @Rajendra Rana: For whatever grievance you have my friend, I love my muslim friends in India and do not want to loose them. I wouldn’t want my muslim friends to leave India, so please be sensible and mindful of millions of Indians who care for their muslim brethren.
    About situation in Pakistan, Hindus are of course welcome purely for asylum and safety and not to show down on Pakistan which itself is facing multiple problems. My wishes that democracy gets chance and perfects itself in time to bring back Pakistan from the grave situation of extremism.

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  • Haji Rafiq A. Tschannen
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:13PM

    In the Holy Qur’an it is stated: ‘There is no compulsion in religion’. A true Islamic state should protect its minorities. Unfortunately Pakistan is ‘Islamic’ in name only.

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  • amit
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:40PM

    @Sunny:
    thank you my friend .and you don’t give answer of my above question .how many seat reserved for ahmediyaa ,christen,hindus and minority ?howw many states cm is hindus or ahmediyaa??india population is 1.2 billion and 21states language and 850 dilects language and india is one of the most diverse country of the world.and you are right some states this crime is happend(mostly up ,bihar and some ruler area) and this caste system is also fallowed by paki muslim(some my sindhi friends who migrate in india in 90s told me) ..and if you are happy in pakistan to fallow Blasphemy Law so good luck for you and your family . good night

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  • gt
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:42PM

    Sunny,

    Rather than sit in Pakistan & stew in hatred, propaganda and utter ignorance about the real situation about “Dalits” in current Indian society, why not follow the advice of your prophet to investigate things for yourself? Practice iqra: it is a sunnah, and travel to India. It is not so far as China. Heed the injunctions of your prophet and do not indulge in fantasies but conduct your own search. Recommend

  • ProudPakistani
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:44PM

    @All my Hindu mates…don’t go anywhere…I being a Muslim respect u & am with u…we will create a better environment with mutual co-operation InshaALLAH…leaving Pakistan means u were not loyal to the country at all…these things happen, even Muslims get kidnapped our Masjids r being attacked by the suiciders…this poor law n order situation is effecting everyone not only u…but I hav my fingers crossed for the future..!!

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  • Rajendra Kalkhande
    Mar 6, 2012 - 11:54PM

    I wish to add to my earlier comment here. Please watch this video of a young Pakistani girl and decide yourself how young Pakistani look at their country. Its eye opening how this young girl feels. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdW6hx6LNGg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

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  • Akram
    Mar 7, 2012 - 12:03AM

    Im no religious Scholar, but as far as my knowledge of the topic goes…if they are “Forced” to convert then they don’t have to practice the religion, because that conversion is not from their heart and again forced. Therefore, we as Muslims should not consider them Muslims and Im sure Allah wouldn’t either.

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  • dv sikka
    Mar 7, 2012 - 12:07AM

    The day is not far when even SHIA will want to move out of Pakistan. Why Pakistan has lost all respect for the great leader JINNAH.

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  • Akram
    Mar 7, 2012 - 12:21AM

    Can any Indian please comment on the women rights report published last fall. India is the fourth most dangerous country. “India’s central bureau of investigation estimated that in 2010 about 90% of trafficking took place within the country and that there were some 3 million prostitutes, of which about 40% were children.”

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  • ZYX
    Mar 7, 2012 - 2:22AM

    @Lion Heart:

    In response to your invitation to migrate to India, I’d like to point out that the 300 million Indians living in gutters may object to your plans to add yet more people to the population. They may not be one of the 0.01% to be unlucky enough to be the victims of terrorism, but they’re far more likely to be among the 35% to live in the most appalling slums in the world where their children would suffer from malaria, diarrhea, and a host of other diseases in addition to living under the rule of gangs and corrupt local officials. Lion Heart….LOL…it ain’t the land of milk and honey that’s for sure…more like feces, urine, disease and poverty. But I’m sure the 300 million living in those slums get cheered up when they see the billion dollar tower residence of India’s capitalist elite. Yup…its what dreams are made of.

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  • Truthbetold
    Mar 7, 2012 - 4:11AM

    @Alina:

    “Hindus! Even Muslims wants to Migrate! the government cant protect anyone. I am a Muslim and my mother was murdered by robbers on the street. Even i want to go! This is not a Hindu Specific problem. Muslims are afraid too.We want Jinnah’s secular Pakistan. what was the use of independence if Muslims in India and Bangladesh are better off????”

    Jinnah’s Pakistan? That is now called India !!

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  • Cynical
    Mar 7, 2012 - 5:20AM

    @Akram

    What this report you site has got to do with minority rights?
    May be you think, being able to hit the keyboard makes you entitled to an opinion.
    You seem to answer a question you are not asked.

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  • Lion Heart
    Mar 7, 2012 - 6:37AM

    @Sunny:

    You Need not say more. You are Correct in Pointing this out. It is a national shame for us that We cannot protect our Dalit brothers and sisters. Even when the state has given them equal rights and sometimes more opportunities to grow as compared to rest of the others. The Society is still to come to full acceptance of Dalits particularly in the Rural areas where the thinking is still Backward…However let me point out to you that our society is changing for the better. Dalits occupy very high positions of power and are as much repected in urban areas. Even our president has been a Dalit. Chief Ministers are Dalits too. In Any case a Dalit in India is better treated than a non muslim is in Pakistan.

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  • Truthbetold
    Mar 7, 2012 - 6:38AM

    @Akram:

    “Can any Indian please comment on the women rights report published last fall. India is the fourth most dangerous country. “India’s central bureau of investigation estimated that in 2010 about 90% of trafficking took place within the country and that there were some 3 million prostitutes, of which about 40% were children.””

    I am not sure what Hindus wanting to migrate to India has anything do to with what you say, or vise versa. Assuming this to be true, it seems these Pak Hindus still want to move there. Doesn’t that mean they want to escape from what is even worse in Pakistan?

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  • Lion Heart
    Mar 7, 2012 - 6:45AM

    @Sunny:

    Sir You are right. It is a Shame for us that Dalits in Rural areas are not protected by the state. It is huge shortcoming of our Society that till today in the Rural areas such medieval thinking of discrimination persists. But the Story is not so in Urban Areas. In the pursuit of Economic development All petty barriers of Caste, creed and Religion go down. To day the Urban Dalit is as much developed and powerful as the rest of the people, and they occupy eminent positions in the society. Our Chief ministers have been Dalits and So also have been the Presidents. The State provides equal rights to the Dalits and more opportunities to Dalits than the rest of the people even in todays times of Diminishing opportunities. That goes to show that we are as a country improving in our fight against Dalit Discrimination. In Any case I am sure a Dalit is better treated in India than a Non-Muslim is in Pakistan.

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  • Mar 7, 2012 - 9:57AM

    @ProudPakistani:
    “leaving Pakistan means u were not loyal to the country at all…”65 years after choosing to stay in an ‘Islamic Republic’ since independence against the facts and in the hope of equality, reduced, persecuted and played around, a minority group gets to hear that!!!! Very hearty congratulations to Mr.Jinnah!!!!

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  • zalim singh
    Mar 7, 2012 - 10:01AM

    @ ProudPakistani

    will you take care of 4 million Hindus and their security in Pakistan?

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  • Agent Vinod
    Mar 7, 2012 - 11:14AM

    For the immigrants Welcome to India……!

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  • Pakistaniat
    Mar 7, 2012 - 12:07PM

    @zalim singh:
    You guys look at one side of the story… The Hindus living in Pakistan mainly in Sindh are businessmen who have done well over the years. I know hindu colleagues who have professional qualifications and working in good jobs… There are reserved seats for minorities in the Senate and in the Parliament. There are temples and gurdwaras where these minorities practice their religion. Yes, there is a security problem but that only affects the minorities but the majorities… For your dream of Pakistan of a failed state, keep dreaming….Jinnah made the best decision for Muslims in creating Pakistan… In the meantime, can you please look at Dalits in your country… they are not allowed to wear shoes in front of an upper caste.. how low can this be….

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  • Mumbai kid
    Mar 7, 2012 - 12:26PM

    @Sunny: So just because there are evils in rest of the world, your evil is justified ??

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  • Sunny
    Mar 7, 2012 - 1:48PM

    @Mumbai kid:
    My friend.. my point is very simple… people living in house made of glass should not throw stones outside… you have problems and we have problems.. you should not gloat at others problems because you have the same (and even worse) problems… Time and again, I have to repeat myself… hope the indian gang understands this…

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  • sandeep limaye
    Mar 7, 2012 - 3:26PM

    who told you so that in india dalits are not allowed to wear shoes in front of upper cast. these things are things of past. now dalits are our bosses, our collectors, our SPs, our MLA, our MPs, our ministers, our Speaker of Parliaments, our Chief Ministers, our Chief justices, our Presidends. dalits are working side by side with us now, in my staff also 20 percent belongs to Dalits and we take lunch with them share our food, happyness, my sister in law is married to a dalit, and he is an engineer in a reputed company
    come out of your well frogs

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  • sandeep limaye
    Mar 7, 2012 - 3:27PM

    and i m brahmin

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  • Sunny
    Mar 7, 2012 - 5:10PM

    @sandeep limaye:
    Please read all the threads before making any comments…

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  • wise counsel
    Mar 7, 2012 - 6:38PM

    @Sunny:
    hinduism is a way of life more than a religion.Castes system was more a system of categorizing that that person for that that job,.A person who had the brilliance to understand texts and scriptures was made a brahmin..The brave guys and strong men became kshatriyas and were meant to defend the kingdom, the guys with business acumen became vanniyars and were asked to do business for the nation and the sudras or guiys who did not fall into the above categories of knowledge valour or business acumen were used for menial jobs like cleaning and maintenece ,.So ,now it was those who could not be scholarly nor did not have business acumen became meintenance guys. Each kept to their own groups in olden days,But with advancement of civilization almost all sudras(dalits now) are educated now and have even become temple priests.Quotas are ebeing offered for them to come out of their menial status.With time they will all become scholars and alternatively brahmins might even become maintenance guys.So world is changing and so is our system.We should be patient while such transformation takes place.
    It is easy to criticize, but difficult to encourage the transformations.

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  • wise counsel
    Mar 7, 2012 - 9:33PM

    Also the untouchability concept came about as it was required for the scholars to be neat and clean while they performed poojas in temple..while the dalits being cleaners and maintenance people did not bother with their appearances and personal hygene.So in order not to soil themseleves while they took part in service in temples they refrained from touching anyone…Anyone..not only dalits.So this concept of untouchabilty is taken too much heights now as now dalits have become learned and want to exploit the situtation of them being socially outcast.This is absolutely untrue in modern towns as brahmins and dalits are even marrying each other and working together.Its a shame some caste based newspapers write articles and such fase articles form basis of many studies in india and abroad and used to mudsling at indians from time to time.

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  • Sunny
    Mar 7, 2012 - 11:35PM

    @wise counsel:
    Blatant caste discrimination is on the wane in big cities but persists in rural communities, where Dalits must live apart from others and take water from separate taps.

    In extreme cases, Dalits who violate caste codes are beaten and their houses destroyed.

    Some offending women have been stripped naked and paraded around as a humiliating lesson to others, according to the New Delhi-based National Campaign on Dalit Human Rights.

    As a young village schoolteacher, Hansraj Dugal would bring sweets to share with his colleagues at tea time. They remained uneaten. Not one of the other teachers would “pollute” themselves by touching the sweets of an untouchable, he said.

    That kind of treatment drove Dugal, 45, to leave the village for the relative anonymity of New Delhi.

    He changed the last name of his children to try to conceal their low-caste background.

    Proudly describing their school honors, he hopes they can get through life without the benefit of quotas.

    “I want to save my children from such discrimination,” Dugal said.

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  • Sunny
    Mar 8, 2012 - 12:35AM

    @wise counsel:
    and most of the dalits live in rural communities….

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  • Babloo
    Mar 8, 2012 - 1:21AM

    To compare India and Pakistan, in treatment of minorities, is like comparing Gandhi and Hafeez Saeed and saying both are humans , so both are sinners and so both are equal !
    The facts say it all. The elimination of Hindu/Sikh minorities in Pakistan is virtually complete. Please show me one other case in human history where a religion, making 20% of a population is reduced to just 1 % in just 65 years ? Its unparalleled in history.

    Discrimination in Pakistan is sanctioned by the constitution and the courts in the discriminatory laws they have framed. Nothing condemns a state like that. Absoluetely nothing. Talk about minorities or casetes in India is just to obfiscate the truth and the stark differences between democratic . secular India and Pakistan.

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  • gp65
    Mar 8, 2012 - 1:30AM

    @Pakistaniat: “can you please look at Dalits in your country… they are not allowed to wear shoes in front of an upper caste.. how low can this be”

    DOn’t listen to Zaid Hamid fantasies. Until yesterday, a Dalit was an elected chief minister of a state of 200 illion people. The things you mentioned were bad cultural practices once upon a time. No longer do such things happen.

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  • Mumbai Kid
    Mar 8, 2012 - 3:23AM

    @Sunny: You are right and slowly this rural community is disappearing. why do you think India so much wanted the lokpal bill in parliament. one reason why liberal minds in India cannot punish the people who does caste base crimes since there is no legal mechanism to bring them to book. With mechanism like Lokpal such social grievance can be brought fwd to notice and every law holder will be hold responsible for not acting upon such incident. Indians in general are fighting for such cause and not keeping quite about it. Infact none of our comments denied such an evil in our society. But we are working on it. inspite of caste base crime the dalit population in India has not disappeared unlike Hindus in Pakistan. In your system you try to bring into legislation to ban products made by Ahmadis. So it is not just non state elements but state actors as well who try to use descriminatory actions to suppress minorities. Can you cite any such example in indian parliament or in government level which has done that ? On the contrary India government has reservations ofr every class and sub class of dalits leading to almost 60 % reservation for them in every field from education to government offices and now private sectors too. Shows our sincerity to erridicate this evil. ofcourse there are some more elemenst we need to take care of . But this action of India atleast gives hope to dalits to stay back and work hard to prosper. Where is your action ? What does Pakistan do for their minorities ? is there any effective law protecting your minorities ?
    The argument is not to show pakistan is bad, the argument is question to know what pakistan or pakistani people are doing to protect it’s minority ? if Just citing a common evil in neighboring society makes you feel good that you are not alone in this mess then have it your way, ignore my comment and stay happy.

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  • Mirza Ghauri
    Mar 8, 2012 - 6:34PM

    Being Pakistani, I feel so ashamed that these minorities are not safe in our country. I was born in Pakistan and has a Indian wife, we are living happily in New Zealand. At the end of the day we are all humans. The religion is the biggest killer of human race and I believe no religion teach us to harm innocent people.

    Regards,

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  • Mumbai Kid
    Mar 9, 2012 - 12:21AM

    @Mirza Ghauri: Agree with you brother. Hope both India and Pakistan takes steps towards curbing the religious extremism and poisoning of the society.

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  • Umar
    Mar 9, 2012 - 1:32AM

    @Mirza

    The problem is that the youth are still harping on islamic Pakistan! If our fathers and grandfathers lived in a secular Pakistan, why does the youth wants Islamic Pakistan? it was introduced by zia ul haq!

    I wonder what is left for Pakistan now, there is no freedom , nothing is allowed, islamic boundries are really small and so intolerance!

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Mar 11, 2012 - 5:51AM

    The problem of migration is safety and security in the country. and not only hindus but other
    also migrating from pakistan since 2003.

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  • manish rohera
    Mar 12, 2012 - 3:21PM

    @amit:
    yes brother you are right i being a sindhi from india am happy that my great grandfather chose india rather than sindh i m at present studying engineering in ahmedabad and here our community is respected for loyalty to our religion our tolerance and our hard work i have met many sindhis who have left sindh(recently) and have came to vadodara,surat and ahmedabad all are mostly very rich and intellectuals and are ready to spend all of their millions into our country hence its pakistan’s loss and our gain and for information the richest sindhi hinduja brothers are richer than any other pakistani

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  • Haris
    Mar 16, 2012 - 4:21PM

    but how can they? after all one of the conditions of indian citizenship is The applicant has not exhibited sympathies toward Pakistan at any time. http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=80960
    pathetic nation

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  • Paki hindu
    Mar 16, 2012 - 4:35PM

    *I must say express tribune is the only news paper that take such kind of bold issue and highlight them and there is hope that Pak have Such kind of people who think regarding such kind of issue *

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  • Mar 17, 2012 - 2:51PM

    when even muslim pakistanis are trying to find safety and refuge in India then who can blame pakistani minorities who has always been at the receiving end of the society and the establishment.

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  • tomas smith
    Mar 18, 2012 - 4:19AM

    Get all pakistani muslims living in UK paying JIZYA Tax to the UK tax office.

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  • Confused NJ
    Mar 22, 2012 - 1:23AM

    This indeed is sad. Intolerance of minority shows the depravity of society as a whole. We indeed as Pakistanis should be ashamed of ourselves. Yet some contributors here have the audacity to link this to the Kashmir issue. Damn we can’t even take care and protect the Hindus who have been here for centuries but yet want to annex Kashmir. Again if someone wants to evoke the mistreatment of Muslims in India or other places is just looking for an excuse and shifting blame instead of correcting our mistakes.

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  • bharat
    Mar 23, 2012 - 12:09PM

    The population of Hindus was 30 % in 1947. Most have been converted to Islam. The fact remains that any non muslim has not been allowed to even like in Pakistan.

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