Tribune survey: Online Pakistanis ‘Muslim’ first, ‘Pakistani’ second

Published: February 16, 2012

Survey tested level of tolerance, religiosity and adherence to tradition.

A majority of Pakistan’s internet users say they consider themselves ‘Muslim first’ (49%) , ‘Pakistani’ second (28%) while 23% voted ‘Other’, a survey conducted by The Express Tribune found.  On the flipside, the survey results also showed that overseas Pakistanis identified more with being a ‘Pakistani’ than a ‘Muslim’ as compared to locals.

The survey, taken by more than 1,600 online Pakistanis, including expats was designed to measure the population on three different scales: their level of tolerance, level of religiosity and adherence to tradition.

While 77% of online Pakistanis expressed a belief in a supernatural being, only 46% said they identified themselves as a religious person. Some 75% said they believed in the existence of ‘Heaven and Hell’.

A majority of Muslim respondents (63%) agreed to the statement that “Pakistanis are not perfect but our religion is superior to others”.

In a core finding related to tolerance, 66% of Pakistanis voted against the need to influence others to share their set of beliefs. However, only 11% of total respondents said they would experiment with other belief systems.

Men do their own research

Women proved to be more traditional than men with 72% saying that they shared the same religious beliefs as their parents. A large number of male respondents said they had reached their current set of beliefs through research, while a majority of females said that they were raised that way.

The online survey found males were more inclined than women to researching new ideas and more willing to explore their beliefs. On the other hand men (36%) felt it was important to influence others when it comes to religion.

Education and age

The survey found that those who were older, and those holding a doctorate degree exhibited the greatest degree of tolerance and openness to religious plurality.

Older age groups (30+) and doctorate degree holders also exhibited lowest religiosity, suggesting that higher education and greater age results in lower religiosity.

Muslims and Non-religious groups

The sample consisted largely of Muslim respondents and those who identified themselves as non-religious. While members of other religious communities did respond to the survey their results were too few to be conclusive. In general, the Muslim segment gave very different responses to the non-religious segment, displaying a greater degree of intolerance and traditional thinking. Interestingly, a larger majority of the non-religious segment (92%) said they had researched other belief systems as compared to Muslims (72%).

Locals and Expats

The survey found expats exhibited slightly lower religiosity than local respondents. For example the local population showed greater belief in Heaven and Hell, was more regular in prayers and identified more to scripture. Expats were inclined to be more egalitarian than local respondents with reference to religious tolerance.

While a majority of expats disagreed with the statement ‘Pakistanis are not perfect but our religion is superior to others’ 53% of locals agreed with it. Fewer expats (35%) voted in favor of needing God to be moral, compared to locals (44%). A greater number of expats (81%) said they had researched other belief systems, as compared to locals (75%).

Scope of the research

The survey was available for three days during the month of January, 2012 and The Express Tribune obtained over 1,600 results from online Pakistanis and expats. The figures and information presented in this report only provide information about religious perceptions in Pakistan with reference to the online audience’s views.

Read the complete findings of the Pakistan Religious Identity Online survey report here.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 16th, 2012.

Reader Comments (133)

  • Akthar
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:02AM

    I had argued this a number of times. Most Pakis will say they are more muslim than a Paki. This is the reasons why when US/NATO killed our soldiers, there was an outpouring on the streets, but when Taliban kill our soldiers, theres no outpouring. Why?

    Because, many of us want to see who`s a better ‘Muslim’? and we all know who the True Muslim is…

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  • arsalan amjad
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:04AM

    That’s our country’s tragedy,we have never put pakistan first.

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  • yousuf khan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:10AM

    it’s very disturbing to see that such a high number of people believe that any one religion is superior to others.this superiority complex and holier than thou attitude explains a lot of the problems our society currently faces.

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  • Bitter Reality
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:10AM

    If they are Muslim first and Pakistani second then why online porn sites are visited more in Pakistan as compared to Western countries. It is easiest to say online that I am Muslim first but looks difficult to practice, as for as these online Pakistani are concerned. And if these online pakis are more Muslim then I think porn sites are visited by those who are Offline…. hahahaha

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  • shahid hameed
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:12AM

    Having gone through the results i find that there wasn’t any option in this survey for atheists,agnostics,freethinkers?

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  • Dr Omar
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:20AM

    @arsalan amjad: I agree, for a sad fact is that every other muslim country thinks in a similar manner. As quoted by Anwar Sadat who once said that his country men are firstly Egyptians, then Arabs and then Muslims!

    Every Muslim country thinks of their nationality first and watches out for their interests. I think we should follow suit if we want to survive and prosper!

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  • Ali Kazmi
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:29AM

    This is really sad but expected, religious intolerance is something which people of Pakistan have to come out of if they want to stand next to the developed countries in the world. In my opinion it would be very easy to manipulate someone if they are not tolerant towards other religions and that is what is happening with Pakistanis today. Pakistanis may not be better Muslims but they defiantly are more emotional ones.

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  • ET Reader
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:30AM

    @All
    Islam zindabad, because Pakistan made on the name of Islam. For your ref: 2 nation theory.

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  • John B
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:30AM

    Muslim first , national citizen second is the motto of Jihadis.

    Check out the interviews of UK and US based Jihadis by CNN and others available in abundance in You Tube.

    What does the survey mean to PAK then?

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  • me
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:38AM

    What on earth is this survey suppose to prove …….?

    you cannot compare religion with nationality …

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  • Hashmi
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:41AM

    What a stupid survey, and what a stupid article to highlight this.

    All Pakistanis think alike.

    In every society there are exceptions, an in Pakistan the only exceptions are the people living in bungalows, commenting on such blogs, tweeting their twisted viewpoint and writing their exception filled point of view in articles and blogs. All the while assuming that they are the voice of Pakistan.

    Just goto a middle class or a lower middle class or a household that comprise the 99.9% of the poppulation of Pakistan. They will tell you that Islam comes first, Pakistan was created in the name of Islam. And there is no second opinion about it.

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  • shaisahmad
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:53AM

    The reason expats identify themselves as ‘Pakistani first’ is because they are too cowardly and appologetic to say ‘Muslim first’. Imagine a Muslim saying publicly in US ‘I am Muslim first and American second’ do u think he would go untroubled? or he wud be regarded extremist, fanatic or a fundamentalist? In a country with so-called ‘freedom of speech’

    We are Muslims and proud to identify ourselves as one. We are worshippers of Allah first, then comes the nationality we belong to. If the teaching of the country and Islam clash, we follow our Creator.

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 12:02PM

    Yes..
    We are Muslims first and Arab second.

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  • Cobra Commander
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:20PM

    @ET Reader. If Muslim identity is more important to you than why did we asked for a separate nation in the first place. We would have been Muslims in India also just like there are Muslims residing there. Don’t you think by denying our nationality we are basically denying Pakistan?

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  • Ali Hasan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:22PM

    Thank you Zia-ul-Haq.

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  • Anon
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:46PM

    @all those whining about the survey
    This is the reality of MOST of the Muslim countries, they declare themselves Muslims first than they go by ethnicity, you can google and check the results yourself. If it wasn’t for the fact that most pakistanis considered themselves Muslim’s first there would never have been PARTITION in this first place, and we would have all been confined into our individual provinces in India. The fact that people like my grandparents gave up land, inheritance, family and made sacrifices to migrate to Pakistan is because they considered themselves MUSLIMS first and foremost and moved to Pakistan.

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  • Red
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:52PM

    @shahid hameed

    I think they covered those under non-religious. I think very few Muslims would have opted for that category. Also you can tell how many atheists/agnostics there are by reverse-engineering the answers. If “77% of online Pakistanis expressed a belief in a supernatural being”, that means 33% are atheists/agnostics/humanists/(whatever). I think that is a pretty decent result.

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  • Sadia
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:58PM

    @ET Reader:
    the 2 nation theory fell apart with the creation of Bangladesh. on the other hand India, with all its diversity is alive and kicking. is that so hard to understand?

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  • WhatTheWhaa?
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:58PM

    @John B
    As usual another ignorant comment without checking facts. Isn’t the US marines motto For God Country and Corps in that order?? That has been the universal values of the marines that have been proudly upheld by your army, so where is the sense in that?
    I think people are over hyping this survey, I think anyone religious of any faith Muslim , Christian, Jew etc will put God first then the rest.
    Alot of armies around the world also have the motto God, Country, Corps, and Family – Does that mean they love their family LEAST??
    Why does everything have to be exaggerated so much

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  • Anon
    Feb 16, 2012 - 12:59PM

    @Ali Hassan
    If Zia ul Haq was that great at Islamising the whole country, then why didn’t the liberal drinking Prez Musharraf reverse the whole thing and resecularise the whole country despite being a staunch liberal? It has nothing to with Zia ul Haq entirely.

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  • T Khan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:01PM

    Interesting to read the comments put forth regarding the survey. Out of 15 comments only one voice reiterates the findings of the survey.
    Nationality and religion are two completely different things, God help us and wake us up to this simple reality for He Himself says in the Holy Quran that He distributed us humans in to different races and nations, and that distinction has nothing to do with ones religion.

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  • Anonymous
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:01PM

    @Cobra Commander
    Yes because Pakistan was created in the name of Islam for Muslims, both identities are intertwined. Everyone knows that Muslims live a secondary status in India and the whole secular outlook of India is a farce, because of the force the majority Hindu enjoy. Atleast Pakistan we can call it Muslim majority and Islamic.

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 1:25PM

    We are neither Arabs nor Turks but converts from Hindus especially Dalits of India. Are we prepared to sacrifice Pakistan for the sake of our religion. We fight for Kashmiri land but not Kashmirs while Kashmirs fight for joining Pakistan for the sake of their religion.

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  • Cynical
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:26PM

    @Cobra Commander
    Well argued.Never crossed my mind.Thanks.

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  • M.J
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:27PM

    @Cobra Commander:
    No offence but I think u need to study some history! specifically “The Two Nation Theory” We fought for a separate state to practice Islam peacefully! And before saying Muslims residing there are as free to practice Islam as you are in Pakistan you should have asked them! or ask anyone living in a non Muslim country it is a struggle to follow Islamic teachings!

    Further, just as I picture, one can not be a good Pakistani without being a good Muslim because its not just Pakistan the name is ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN!

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 1:29PM

    @Akthar:
    Which Taliban, British/US ones or Afghani ones?

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  • humayun
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:33PM

    Although my parents migrated from India to Pakistan and my skin color is indian and my language is Urdu my parents told me that i am an Arab and we should be proud of this :P

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  • KKGnation
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:48PM

    how many consider them ‘Human’ first?

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  • Jabran
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:48PM

    What a nonsense poll! Who do you love most, your wife or your mom?

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  • pakistanibaloch
    Feb 16, 2012 - 1:56PM

    *yes we are muslim first then pakistani……if we are good muslim then we can become good citizen *

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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 2:27PM

    “Tribune survey: Online Pakistanis ‘Muslim’ first, ‘Pakistani’ second”This is the exact reason why Pakistan is in its current state.. They are more theological than nationalistic… What bothers me is if educated internet users are like this, god bless the world from the ill informed and misguided rural population…

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  • sashayub
    Feb 16, 2012 - 2:39PM

    flwed state system, shameful results….no nationality, sticking to the Ummah concept and ending up losing integrity, life and way of living…

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  • SS
    Feb 16, 2012 - 2:40PM

    Human first (I am just saying because the atrocities (killing, bombing etc) of Muslims is beyond what it it to be human)

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  • some one
    Feb 16, 2012 - 2:48PM

    well Pakistan was made in the name of Islam. So it makes sense if pakistanis say they are muslims first. If pakistanis were to say muslim second, then the reason for separating from India gets nullified. Pakistan’s creation in 1947 was because of the muslim first identity which Pakistan had promised to its Citizens.

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  • Ali Kazmi
    Feb 16, 2012 - 2:58PM

    Does just declaring yourself that you are “Muslim first” make you better a Muslim? What is the essence of teaching of Islam? Islam is a peacful religion which has taught to tolerate other religions not bomb them. If people in Pakistan were Muslim in real sense I dont believe it would be in the mess it is in right now.

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  • Saif
    Feb 16, 2012 - 3:08PM

    My reply to every muslim who’s commented on this article and does not like the idea of pakistani’s being muslims first and pakistani’s second. On the day of judgement, God will not give a damn if you’re pakistani, indian, american or japanese. All he’ll come to score with is how good a believer you were. Do not forget our country was created in the name of Islam. And today we want to put it on the secondary list. If you call yourself a muslim, your first priority must be to uphold the commands of Allah and His prophet (PBUH). Take care of Islam and you’ll take care of pakistan. Only people with less belief and lesser understanding can put national interests before faith.

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 3:22PM

    pakistanibaloch,

    *yes we are muslim first then pakistani……if we are good muslim then we can become good citizen *

    …as opposed to non-Muslims who are bad citizens? Ahan..

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  • Sadia
    Feb 16, 2012 - 3:29PM

    @M.J:
    Why are muslims so self-centered? In response to the question posted by you, (‘or ask anyone living in a non Muslim country it is a struggle to follow Islamic teachings!’), I would like to ask you how many mosques and Islamic centers are there in western countries and how many churches, temples and synagogues are there in the bastions of Islam?

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  • Pakistani
    Feb 16, 2012 - 3:30PM

    We should first Pakistani then others. Because, faith or beliefs are personal things.

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  • Ali S
    Feb 16, 2012 - 3:39PM

    I think part of the reason for this is the shame of being associated with Pakistan, which is largely considered a failed state – it’s no surprise that our country has a horrible international reputation and many ‘educated’ Pakistanis will try to deny their connection with Pakistan. Expats who have lived in the Middle East tell that they’re from “UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc” when you ask them where they’re from. On the other hand, ask any Muslim from India, Turkey, Malaysia, even Bangladesh and they’ll have no problem identifying with their country.

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  • Khalid
    Feb 16, 2012 - 3:57PM

    ET, Hashmi, Anon, MJ & some one

    Brilliant comments…..

    I’m disturbed by how some of our fellow Pakistani’s disregard Islam…and preach ‘liberal Islam’ – ?

    There’s only 1 Islam…..everything else is wrong!

    And I would advise the ‘liberals’ to go back to our school history books and learn why Pakistan was created….if not go and live in India

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  • Aadersh
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:03PM

    Is this a question worth asking?? Being Muslim doesn’t mean we are putting Pakistani cause aside…Being a Muslim & being a Pakistani are two different things…
    Proud to be a Muslim, Proud to be a Pakistani…

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  • Sayyed Mehdi
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:08PM

    Around 350-400 respondents claiming a lack of belief in a supernatural being and Heaven and Hell? That’s interesting.

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 4:24PM

    What happend to ET, these are our fundamentals of our religion and u r having surveys on them??

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  • Roflcopter
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:38PM

    You’re not a muslim if you put country before religion.

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  • major-ji
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:41PM

    Good to know but what next. Such surveys should be used to improve the prevailing pathetic state of affairs. Media has a very big responsibility in this regard. The day majority will start calling themselves first the Pakistani many problems will evaporate. So ET field is open and now come forward to do some thing really concrete.

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  • Err
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:43PM

    @Indian
    I have alot of Hindu friends and I can assure they consider themselves Hindu first then Indian. Which is why Hindus also migrated to India during partition. You of all people should understand.

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  • Cobra Commander
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:48PM

    The two most absurd and narcissistic sentences are ” Pakistan is the citadel of Islam” and “Pakistan was created in the name of Islam” . Well there are 55 Muslim countries in the world and non are less Muslim than us and none have a crazy motto like ours. I ask all Pakistanis to utter these sentence in front of a Saudi or Egyptian and let’s see what they have to say.
    I have number of Indian Muslim as friends and non of them ever complain about their living conditions . Yes they are a minority in a majority Hindu country but they do not have to deal with daily attack on mosques or suicide attacks. We are not a gods chosen nation and we are just 1 of 55 Muslim countries so let’s start to act like one.

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  • Haji Rafiq A. Tschannen
    Feb 16, 2012 - 4:49PM

    Expatriate Pakistanis are usually quick in obtaining foreign passports. I know of mainly two personalities who could easily have obtained foreign passports, but did not: Sir Mohammad Zafrullah Khan and Nobel Prize winner Prof. Dr. Abdus Salam.

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  • Err
    Feb 16, 2012 - 5:06PM

    @Khalid
    Great comeback I second. People start crying about Pakistan when they dont realise this is not a phenomena unique to Pakistan but ALL Muslim countries as well as other countries. British Prime Minister just called Britiain a Christian country despite a significant proportion of population being Non-Christian British. His minister warned that Britain is becoming a victim of militant secularisation where liberals just want to remove every trace of religion. This is what is happening in Pakistan, these liberals because of a bunch of extremists malign the entire religion to be something to be afraid off. Being Muslim and Pakistan is co-existent, harmonious and just normal. Stop freaking out because whining wont change the reality.

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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 5:12PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    This is basically ‘fundamentalism’…..

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  • Waqas
    Feb 16, 2012 - 5:47PM

    funny to read most pakis think Pakistan is created in the name of Islam, how come there were hardly any islamic laws, until Zial ul Haq introduced it ? And why are the youth so obsessed with islamic Pakistan while our fathers and grandfathers are not? If Pakistan is created for the islam, how come more muslims stayed back in India then? Pakistan became Islamic during zia ul haq periode! If Jinnah didn’t make islamic Pakistan, why would the youth?! Pakistan should be based on Jinnah’s visions!

    Why are the Pakistanis so obsessed with religion? If someone is not muslim or doesn’t want to follow islamic rules, does it cause any harm in your personal’s life? will it cause u a sleepless night? Pakistanis should wake and learn what humanity means!

    A country based on a religion is always a big mistake! Look at Pakistan, only muslims have rights, and non-muslims groups are targetted, attacked and discriminated and are forced to follow islam! And under the pretext of islamic Pakistan, its all justified!

    Being muslim doesn’t mean u are the best human being around the world. following islamic lifestyle doesn’t mean u are following the best way of life, wake up, smell humanity, embrace all people from all walks of life, live and lets live!

    More muslims are enjoying more rights in secular countries then minorities in islamic countries together! Period!
    Salutes to the indian muslims and non-muslims for staying back in India, while I, as a non-muslim Pakistani regrets my grandfathers didn’t migrate to India!Recommend

  • BlackJack
    Feb 16, 2012 - 5:47PM

    @Err:
    Err… 2 points:
    Hindus did not migrate to India because India is a Hindu country, they fled to escape Pakistan! I agree that this is a tough question to answer, because nationality and religion appeal to different parts of our psyche – but you will find Hindus who will say India first, because lots of us see Hinduism more as a philosophy than a religion that brooks no opposition or scientific enquiry. The way I see it is, would I choose (as a lesser evil) to go to war against another religion or another country – and the choice is another country. For you guys, every war is a religious one – for the glory of Islam. Hinduism demands no such bloodshed or bigotry.
    Second, Christian values are different from identifying oneself by religion rather than nationality – I would like to have Christian values as well. You also neglect to mention that the British minister who warned of militant secularization was Baroness Warzi, yet another Pakistani (by origin).

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  • WhatTheWhaa?
    Feb 16, 2012 - 5:57PM

    @Sadia
    Two nation theory did not fall apart with the creation of bangladesh. Muslim Bengals gave full support to Jinnah to become part of Muslim majority Islamic state Pakistan and the province of Bengal split into two. After that aim was achieved and they felt underrepresented within the Muslim state, they pursued the nationalistic aim of separating a Muslim state of Bengal majority. If Bengalis rejected two-nation theory, they would have re-integerated back into India and re-unified with the West-Bengal province of India which they DID NOT, which means that the Muslim identity is still important to Bengalis. They are bengal’s but they still want to live in a Muslim Majority country. I am not making this up, research and google yourself where in Bangladesh surveys, bengalis have self-identified themselves as Muslim first then Bengali. Just because they seperated to have their own Bengali muslim-majority doesn’t make two nation theory irrelevant.

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  • Err.
    Feb 16, 2012 - 6:09PM

    @BlackJack
    Maybe your experiences were different and I understand, because even some of my family members had to flee from hindu-majority areas when the attack started. But I live abroad where I have Indian friends, and a large number of their families migrated to be in a Hindu majority India for relgious reasons. Please dont drag the violence excuse in because the violence took place on both sides and yes it was a factor that made people migrate. But 7.2m hindus migrated to India and 7.2m people migrated to Pakistan, do you think it was ALL violence related? The number speak for themselves and it is obvious, our leaders made the call for seperate nations because of religious ideological differences.
    As for your other points I will not get into a detailed debate because one only has to read the news from India to see it has its own share of religious problems despite its secularism ideals. There are several exampls and major widely incidents of violence against Muslims and Christians in India. There are fights over conversion. There are Muslim and Hindu extremist outfits. The news is out there, getting into this debate is futile and digressive from the actually point of the survey.

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  • R.A
    Feb 16, 2012 - 6:29PM

    What if Hindus say that
    they are Hindu first then Pakistanis
    Siks first then Pakistanis
    Christians first then Pakistanis
    and all the sects in Islam will say
    it is their believes first then they are Pakistanis
    Pakistan will become a
    CHOON CHOON KA MURABA
    Pakistan ka Allah Hafiz
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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 6:48PM

    @Err:
    I am an Indian Hindu and have at-least a dozen of my friends who are ‘Indian Muslims’… Guess what – most of my ‘Hindu’ and ‘Muslim’ ‘Indian’ friends are ‘Indians’ first and ‘Some Religion’ later.. So brother tell this story to a certain fellow in your media who blurts out ‘gazwa hind’ to get a ‘Muslim’ Pakistani to believe you…..Recommend

  • Err.
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:09PM

    @Indian
    Good for you, because that is the point of the survey. If you can see from the comments not all Pakistanis agree with the same way of identifying themselves and I am sure the same is the case for Hindus and Indians. Some put Hindu some Indian. Regardless of that it is OKAY not something to freak out about . Also this is not a competition!!!

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  • Adnan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:19PM

    Great! Pleasantly not unexpected.

    Did this survey from a non-Mullah site hurt our liberals?

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  • sher
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:19PM

    why would anyone put Pakistan first. come one people, your religion comes first, that is ” I AM A MUSLIM PAKISTANI”. I would defend my country at any cost. we should be Patriotic Muslim Pakistani. You name it, any country in the world, they would say either a muslim or christian or hindu country. In USA, they say i am a muslim American, in their media they quote by saying that Muslim American Businessman or anything of asian decent…. so people your religion comes first and than the rest. wake up people. I dont think you need a survey for this kind of stuff. example the so called Jewish call it a JEWISH STATE. come one.

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  • Adnan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:20PM

    @Aadersh:

    Great reply +1

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  • Adnan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:25PM

    @Waqas:

    Because non-Mullah ignorant liberals never respected Jinnah’s vision of Islamic Pakistan

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  • Straight Fire
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:35PM

    There is no point of conducting such surveys… This debate will die its own death as soon as US runs out of bullets in Afghanistan.

    Our ultimate rulers are Hardcore Islamists, so better learn to live according to their belief and regulations rather than wasting time in these useless surveys …

    These surveys only give a little breathing room to those whose hands are shivering while writing comments on this page, foreseeing there historical end and constantly thinking about the fact that there will be no legacy left by them …

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  • xzy
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:41PM

    Human first, Muslim second. You can’t be the latter without being the former first,

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  • Raj - USA
    Feb 16, 2012 - 7:57PM

    @zaid hamid:

    You never stop to amuse me. You have a great sense of Humor. Your one liners are excellent.

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  • Feb 16, 2012 - 8:14PM

    I am a Pakistani first, Punjabi next, Sunni next and Muslim last. I am prepared to leave this and settle in a non-islamic country if I am sure of employment and peaceful living. There are many countries in the world where people live happily without carrying the religious luggage to every place and work.

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  • Anon.
    Feb 16, 2012 - 8:20PM

    @Adnan
    Yes it did. They are crying as they are the only ones who seem to have a problem with it because it means their hard work at redefining our history has failed. The rest us dont think it’s too much of a big deal, because i think both identities can co-exist.

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  • well-wisher
    Feb 16, 2012 - 8:48PM

    A very interesting survey has been conducted but had the survey conducted in rural areas seperately and also included the question whether or not as a Muslim you are tolerant with no hatred towards other religions, the survey would have been more realistic. However as a non-Muslim Indian, I do not find anything wrong with majority opting to be Muslims first and consider their religion higher than others, provided they are tolerant towards other religions. Not-withstanding above if such a survey had been conducted in India, majority would have opted to be Indians first and their religions to be secondary.

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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 8:49PM

    @Err.:
    “If you can see from the comments not all Pakistanis agree”49%???? And that too those who are educated and have access to internet that is!! I can only expect it to be worse in those who are taught the traditional stuff…

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  • Mir
    Feb 16, 2012 - 8:52PM

    Pakistan First!!!

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  • sandeep limaye
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:14PM

    the problem with Muslims is that they think that Islam is the only way to God. all other way are false or corrupted with time. this mentality leaves no room for discussion. my way or high way leaves very little options for tolerance. so there can not be true religious freedom in a country where majority believes that their way of worship is superior then other. till the time all religions will agree on this point that our creator is one and all have their right to pray to him or her as they feel comfortable with, there would be no peace in the world.

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  • Err
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:20PM

    @Indian
    Is this a competition for you to prove India’s credentials vis-a-vis? My basic premise was that that different people say different things regardless of whether or no they are Indian or Pakistani. I even said the survey is no big deal and I suggest you suggest you stop taking the survey and these comments too seriously because you have your own problems to worry about. Atleast our constitution clearly stipulates that this is an Islamic country. What is India’s excuse?? Despite its secular credentials it has SO many religious problems. Why do Dalits get beaten and lynched for converting? Why have there been attacks on churches in the past? Have you read Amnesty International and HRW report regarding India?? Like I said before this is not a competition stop trying to turn it into one. Both countries face the problems that you have mentioned and we should focus on improving and making things better. It makes no sense to especially come to ET website for the sole purpose of pointing the problems with Pakistan.

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  • Adnan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:26PM

    the problem with Muslims is that they
    think that Islam is the only way to
    God

    @sandeep limaye:

    This is the reality and this is our faith. Islam is not something given by Muhammad(saw). It was way before Him in this world; since Adam(AS). In Quran the term MUSLIM was used for Abraham(AS) first because our 3 Big religions are based on Abrahamic faith.

    This is our faith as Muslims to keep our faith first, after all it’s more related to our personal life and every Pakistani or Muslim have right to opt what comes first.

    Nationalism is another name of Racism. We Muslims consider ourselves community regardless of color,race,culture and country. So naturally Islam killed the racism and nationalism by the concept of Ummah.

    If anyone does not believe in it, either he lies that he is a Muslim or ignorant about his own faith.Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:28PM

    @Indian:

    And I see how “well informed’ Indians have events like Gujrat and Bombay riots. Oh it was not on the name of religion but Nationalism, right?

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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:32PM

    @Err:
    Seems you are taking it way too seriously brother.. Chill.. Don’t want to think about it… Good… Do the ostrich…
    “Atleast our constitution clearly stipulates that this is an Islamic country. What is India’s excuse”Decide for yourself first as to what you actually are, becoz you seem to be confused to own or not to own.. And then do visit India if you want to find the truth…

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  • sandeep limaye
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:44PM

    This is the reality and this is our faith.
    @ adnan
    this is the reality according to you. what about me who strongly believes that my way of worship is only way possible towards God. our Upanishads and Geeta and religious texts, they are all superior. only way forward is discussion and giving freedom to choose, practice and propagate religion. so everyone can listen alternate belief and then decide that what is best way forward. you may argue that it is decided by God that Islam is only way and Qur’an is book given by God. but we too believe that Srimad Bhagwad Geeta is the song sung by the God himself. now there is confrontation. so there must be given level playing field. but you people want all kind of religious freedom when you are in non Muslim country but deny same freedom to non Muslims in your country. if you people come to non Muslim countries to propagate your religion then you must give this right to non Muslim to propagate their religion in your country. but you have my way or high way approach and it leaves no room for tolerance. this fundamentalist approach creates fitna in the world.

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  • Waqas
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:44PM

    @ Sandeep

    well said! This is exactly the problem like u have written! As long as their mindset wont change there will be no freedom or rights for minorities in Pakistan!

    Recommend

  • gp65
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:49PM

    @Anon: “The fact that people like my grandparents gave up land, inheritance, family and made sacrifices to migrate to Pakistan is because they considered themselves MUSLIMS first and foremost and moved to Pakistan”

    That is not logical. Your family would have remained Muslims even if you stayed in India. The reason they moved is because they wanted to be part of Pakistan. People in the former East Pakistan obviously thought that nationality mattered else they would not have fought for a separate Bangladesh. After all even within Pakistan no-one was denying their Muslim identity. It is their Bengali identity that was being denied.

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  • Err
    Feb 16, 2012 - 9:56PM

    @Indian
    Are you serious? You come all the way here to point all the problems in pakistan seems you are the one obsessed who takes this survey so seriously that you have to keep putting down each and every positive point thrown your way. I think I already advised you to work on your own problems and leave us to our own so you saying that back to me is kind of redundant. Also I guess once again you deflected your own problems and points I raised the argument about india’s history or religious violence but you ignored and deflected that question by again giving bringing up pakistan’s problems, which is typical for Indian commenters like you. You my dear are the very definition of ostrich policy or worse busy staring at your neighbour’s garden while you own house burns down.
    You obviously dont see the irony in your comments, the more you comment the more you contradict yourself and prove me right. In India even churches have been attacked last year and Dalits beaten up for converting. Just because your constitution says you are secular doesn’t make you one! Get out of bubble and read your own news first, before you comment on other!!! And please ont throw rocks in glasshouses please!

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  • Indian
    Feb 16, 2012 - 10:16PM

    @Err:
    It seems Pakistan is one wonderland where everyone is Alice!!!!

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  • Ramanujam
    Feb 16, 2012 - 10:29PM

    @Err
    Every country has its own share of relgious bigots..Even Norway found that..Secular doesnt mean that the country is an utopia of good men…
    Secular means that the country will not support anyone misusing religion to oppose human rights..
    Yes,Churches were attacked,Dalits were beaten,Muslims were killed in riots,a train containing hindu pilgrims were burned…
    But what separates India from your country is that the perpertators were tried in an impartial court and given punishment for their crimes…
    Noone showered flowers on the person who did the crime and was treated like a third class criminal…

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  • let there be peace
    Feb 16, 2012 - 10:35PM

    Why do I have a feeling of deja vu?

    Recommend

  • Ali Kazmi
    Feb 16, 2012 - 10:36PM

    I suppose this is another problem altogether that every religious extremist thinks he/she is right. Those who are intolerant towards other religions and their followers should mend their ways. I ask them if they are the most perfect human beings and really near God then why is all the killing, suffering, fraud, lying so common in this country? Why is every Pakistani so keen on escaping this country to get a green card and settle in US or somewhere else?

    Seems that people in Pakistan are actually not following what Islam has said, instead they are following some mullah whose sole purpose in life is to brain wash others and is on payroll of people who have their own motives. How do you expect this country to prosper and have equal rights for Christians, Hindus and others? I want to ask them what if you were not born Muslim? What if you were born Christian? Would you still think this way? Well, ofcourse you would, since you are intolerant towards other religions. Imagine what would you think about Muslims then?

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  • American Pakistani
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:12PM

    Based on my experience living in Pakistan, it’s mostly middle and lower-middle classes that overwhelmingly have these pious-than-thou attitude and backward thinking. Surprisingly people in villages,subset of people who lived/ studied abroad and with means are more broad minded and accepting of other’s opinion But it all makes sense, because middle classes are the one segment in Pakistan who only have access to worst education institutions, enough food on their table so that they can marginally live a life but not enough exposure that hurt their critial thinking abilities and promote biases and religiosity in their life style.

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  • Mir Agha
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:14PM

    Amateurish deductions. Since when does not delving into other religions make one intolerant? Rational, freethinkers would be included in ‘being muslim’. Narrow-minded people get caught up in ethnicity and nationality.

    Recommend

  • Cynical
    Feb 16, 2012 - 11:57PM

    @sandeep limaye

    Very well put.

    @All those who has posted (or likely to) their comments on this forum.

    Please read his comment and discuss.

    Recommend

  • Ahmed
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:01AM

    Allama Iqbal said:

    “Apni Millat pe qayas aqwam-e-maghrib se na kar;
    Khas hai tarkeeb main qaum-e-rasool Hashmi (SAW)”

    This is the reason that we consider ourselves Muslims. our Nationality is Muslim and Pakistani is our citizenship. People can have dual nationalities.

    And few i try to be champion of two Nation theory. Two nation theory never meant that there are two nations in India. It meant that there are atleast two nations in India. In India there were more than 500 nations based on language, thousands based on ethnicity, hundreds based on geography. However, religion was the basis which constituted minimum number of nations i.e., Muslims and Hindus. Don’t forget that there were Sikh and Christians as well but these two communities constituted bulk of population.Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:31AM

    @American Pakistani:

    No. Reality is that those who studied abroad are no different than those villagers who visited some city and got impressed city Batiyan(City Lights) and started considering it heaven on earth. In reality overseas people get more brain washed than people living in Pakistan. Examples are ignorant comments and ignorant post by this forum

    Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:36AM

    @sandeep limaye:

    Sandeep, quoting a line without giving context is not going to help you. Anyways. First of all you are not a Pakistani citizen so it should not bother you what Pakistani thinks. Second, look at your own country where Hindus kill Muslims yet claim they are seculars. Last but not least, your own Hindu Faith has concept of one God, I think you may call it Eshwar right? We Muslims do believe in One God too I know like you our religion was tried to get polluted by later comers who came up with innovations in the name of Islam. As I quoted Iqbal and quoting again and it summarize entire thing.

    Eik Hon Muslim Haram ki Pasbani k Liye
    Neel k Sahil se Taba-e-Kasghar Tak.

    We muslims don’t believe in nationalism. Its nothing but racism. If some low class Muslims is pious than he is acceptable regardless of caste,color and race. Something which is alien for you.

    Recommend

  • Pakistani First
    Feb 17, 2012 - 1:04AM

    My nickname says all I want to say! Pakistani and proud of it.

    Recommend

  • aq.inqalabi
    Feb 17, 2012 - 1:32AM

    I just dont know what ET wants to prove ?????????????
    I mean is it wrong to be a Muslim and Pakistani ? or
    Muslim can not be Pakistani ? or
    a Pakistani can not be Muslim ?

    I usually respect liberals but sometimes ET liberals just creeps me! …. bite me :)

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  • Mohammed Sager
    Feb 17, 2012 - 1:37AM

    Dont fall into this trap “what first & what Second”, we are 100% Pakistanies period. Once you label a religion first than your nationality, we all loose as a Nation. We should love our fellow Pakistani regardless of what Religion/Sect he follows. In a bigger picture if we succeed as a successful Pakistani like great Dr. or Engineers or inventors, all nations will admire us. Now who cares if that particular Dr. or an engineer is a hindu/sikh/muslim first, just be glad that he brought us Pride as a Nation. I am a Pakistani who practise Islam but I love all my fellow countymen regardless of their faiths.

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  • Truth
    Feb 17, 2012 - 3:28AM

    Unfortunately they are neither.

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  • Cosmo
    Feb 17, 2012 - 5:08AM

    @Saif:
    U’r a completely brainwashed mullah !!

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  • Aryan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 5:56AM

    @Mohammed Sager:
    Sir, if you and @Pakistani can convince @Adnan to your view; it would be great. I like your patriotism, everybody should a national first and religious second. Thanks again for being rational.

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  • Raj - USA
    Feb 17, 2012 - 7:01AM

    @Mohammed Sager:

    This is the most sensible comment from a True Pakistani. Had Pakistanis been thinking like this, terrorists from around the globe would not have found sanctuary in Pakistan. I have lived many years in the Gulf Region and no one, even from tiny kingdoms like Bahrain and Qatar call themselves Muslims first. They all introduce themselves as Emiratis, Saudis, Iraqis, etc. This is true even in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Nigeria also. Pakistan is the only exception.

    Recommend

  • ConcernedCitizen
    Feb 17, 2012 - 7:02AM

    religion and nationality are two completely different things….can;t compare them at all. but the level of intolerance is rather disturbing.

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  • Indian
    Feb 17, 2012 - 8:42AM

    By the way if this is actually the case, is there any point in Pakistan’s existence?? A nation is supposed to represent a unit and a part of the world. It is not supposed to be shredded into the parts of the world and yet claim to be a unit based on the parts….

    Recommend

  • 12345
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:29AM

    @Err:

    I have alot of Hindu friends and I can
    assure they consider themselves Hindu
    first then Indian. Which is why Hindus
    also migrated to India during
    partition. You of all people should
    understand.

    error. you are lying. im a Hindu, and i consider humanity, Indian etc first and believes can move with religion in the same direction with everyone. Hindu migration to India is not the proof for your claiming.

    Recommend

  • Abba Jee
    Feb 17, 2012 - 10:29AM

    I am Abba Jee First, Ammi Jee Second to my orphan kids…

    Recommend

  • Feb 17, 2012 - 11:10AM

    @Saif:
    When is the judgement day? Allah never liked Pakistan that is why we are facing one problem after another right from beginning. Now, not one after another but accumulated and cumulative problems surrounding us. Allah would have helped us if we are real Muslims in mind and deed. There is no other country in the world where religion of majority has become a problem.

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  • Senman
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:06PM

    I find it regretable that my fellow Indians trying to advice Pakistan on an issue that has nothing to do with us. Please concentrate on our country there is so much more to be done here before we start giving others advice.

    The Pakistani’s can only learn by themselves and we can no way advice them on how to run their country. I humbly request my fellow indians and expats to concentrate your Ideas on how to make our country even better than this pointless forcing of logical debate with Pakistan.

    Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:07PM

    @Aryan:

    Aryan, are you Indian Hindu? just guessing. Even if not then do read what Iqbal says, what Islam preaches. Ignore what ignorants talk here

    Recommend

  • Err
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:18PM

    @Indian
    You are right Pakistan is a wonderland, and eventually in the end just like Alice wins against all the odds, so will we. Thanks for your vote of confidence!!! Goodluck with your continuing obsession with Pakistan because it’s interesting knowing that our neighbours make so much effort to keep coming here everyday, rather than focus on their own problems back home (which btw dont look too different from ours)

    Recommend

  • waqas
    Feb 17, 2012 - 12:21PM

    @ Err

    get ur facts rights! Hindus migrated to India, because they had no rights in Pakistan (actually in no single islamic countries minorities will enjoy their rights) And I belong to a minority group in Pakistan so i know what i am talking about! Whatever u say or think about India, there is more freedom in India than in Pakistan! What happened witht the muslims 15 years ago, its happening daily with the minorities! And what ever happens in India, all indians stands up, while no Pakistani muslim stand up for the minorities!

    Recommend

  • Anon
    Feb 17, 2012 - 1:46PM

    @waqas
    listen I know you have problems but that doesn’t justify this victim complex that in all islamic countries minorities are being oppressed. In syria it is the minority that is oppressing the muslims majority (christians +alawaite which together constitute on 15 percent) In other arab countries like tunisia and egypt too minorities supported the dictators and were in high level govt posts, and helped crackdown on the majority. Good and bad people are everywhere, minority or majority victim complex is not justified.

    Recommend

  • Love and Peace
    Feb 17, 2012 - 1:53PM

    I am an Atheist and a Pakistani.
    People said they researched there religion, then how come no one converted to all the other options available.

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  • Ansari
    Feb 17, 2012 - 2:07PM

    Well, in the first place .. the way this survey was done is questionable in itself. 1600 people were interviewed to out of 180 millions and results are extrapolated to all 180 millions. haha :)

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  • whatever, want peace
    Feb 17, 2012 - 2:32PM

    @Adnan:

    And I see how “well informed’ Indians
    have events like Gujrat and Bombay
    riots. Oh it was not on the name of
    religion but Nationalism, right?

    gujrat riot- first they were killed cos of hindus, made the feeling that being Hindu is dangerous, and was a mass provocation, what can you expect after such an incident? if i slap you continuously, what will you do?
    ……whatever, want peace………..

    Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 3:22PM

    @Love and Peace:

    I did not find any alternative better than Islam which is close to nature, sensible and authenticated.

    Recommend

  • Adnan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 3:39PM

    @whatever, want peace:

    interesting facts twisting, as if People can’t find facts what actually happened about Gujrat Riots and Babri Masjid destruction or you Indians think that there’s no Internet for outer world.

    By your logic, I am afraid Pakistanis can have same excuse against minorities.

    As someone suggested, you Indians should reduce a bit obsession about Pakistan and feed millions of poor in your country.

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  • Indian
    Feb 17, 2012 - 4:19PM

    @Err:
    Like i said – Pakistan is a wonderland with full of Alices who just wonder of whatever they wish!!

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  • To each his own!!
    Feb 17, 2012 - 4:47PM

    Why should Indians be concerned that the survey points to people in pakistan being muslims first and pakistanis second. That is their choice and to each his own!!

    I know for sure, that in India, it would handsdown be “being Indians First”.

    Interesting that heaven does not having an immigration counter and no one carries passports there. So nationality for God has no descrimination. Similarly God probably never discriminates on basis ofreligion but passes judgement on what the person did or did not do, on his trip to earth! So if you had misdeeds but were a muslim, you have no defence. and if you had bad deeds but was from some country, no defence either.
    However, on Earth, cohesion comes with a national identity, and thats how politics defines the world.And every country wan ts to see your passport. Pakistanis need visas for travel to every other muslim state. so..religion has no bonus points!

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  • Mohammed Sager
    Feb 17, 2012 - 6:39PM

    @Raj – USA:
    Thanks for your kind words, Inshallah one day we will have majority who thinks this way and war mongers on both sides will have no choice but to shut up. But as a human being first, I try my best to educate my fellow country man to not fall for these kinda arguments. More we(normal indian & pakistanies) meet each other and interact, these misconceptions will go away. Among us we have one of the best brains in the world, just imagine the impact we would have on world, if we join hands at technology alone. Do some R&D or have some common technology parks, man I am getting carried away but I hope you get my point.
    Deep down we all are nice humans but sometimes our past makes it hard for us to trust/respect each other. But there is no hate in my house, my kids will not learn any of it.

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  • Mohammed Sager
    Feb 17, 2012 - 6:46PM

    @Aryan:
    I try my part in changing a mind set of one individual person at a time, but needless to say we cant convince everybody, just a hope that they see our point of view. He seems to have his own views which I politely disagree with.

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  • saleem
    Feb 17, 2012 - 7:11PM

    I am Pakistani ………..thats it , whether i am muslim, christian , hindu , parsi thats purely personal and private

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  • Ramanujam
    Feb 17, 2012 - 8:25PM

    To all Pakistani Muslims who feel that nationality doesnt come to muslims and their brotherhood “ummah” is above all….

    Can I ask you why you and other south indian muslims are referred to as *”mawali”* by the Arabs??Why is that you dont have the same rights as the Arabi muslims in Gulf??

    Your brotherhood is only used by the radical elements and terrorists to amass more donation and manpower to their dirty deeds…An indonesian muslim is convinced to fight for the rights of Palestinian muslim…
    But when USA attacked two of your muslim countries,the entire muslim world were watching as spectators..Why didnt the OPEC countries warn US to stop oil export to US if they attacked Afghanistan and Iraq???Recommend

  • Zalim singh
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:01PM

    if a pakistani Hindu calls himself Hindi first, all hell will break lose.

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  • sandeep limaye
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:06PM

    we indians keep on trolling on this forum because we think that its our forum, we think that you are other half we are incomplete without you. you are one of us we think but fear to express our thought. cuz you think that you are not one of us. so we have this one sided love. now you keep on insulting us but we keep on sharing our views here cuz we think you are part of our extended family. there were two brothers, younger one demanded partition of the house because he was thinking that his rights were trampled in combined family. so he got part of house but still it is part of the house.
    dear brothers from pakistan we belong to the same family to let us share our concerns here
    yours only
    sandeep limaye

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  • Irfan Ahmad
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:09PM

    yes i am muslim first.yes i am muslim first. i will say it thousand times i am muslim first. i will prefer my religion over my country.

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  • Arshad
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:16PM

    Akhtar@ I strongly protest to use word Paki, we are Pakistani not insulted word. Its duty of Tribune to correct the word in the future. Many thanks.

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  • Mohammed Sager
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:21PM

    @sandeep limaye:
    Well said sandeep G, If you ever come to my house you will find me with wide open arms to welcome you.

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  • Aryan
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:28PM

    @Mohammed Sager:
    Thank you sir and regarding your reply to @Raj – USA, completely agree. We all should be human first and our religion should be private.

    Recommend

  • Mohammed Sager
    Feb 17, 2012 - 9:35PM

    @Irfan Ahmad:

    Good for you as long as you are gonna practise true religion of Islam as practised by Sahaba Karaam, respect the minorities of your Mohalla, treat them nicely, protect their life and properties so they can live in Peace in our mohalla/city/country than go right ahead call your self a Muslim first.
    We have Muslim Pakistanies, Hindu Pakistanies, Sikh Pakistanies etc now if a Hindu considers himself hindu first than a Pakistani than really who cares as long as we all have the brotherhood of being from ONE NATION than we are good but if we start these divisions and start hating our fellow country man than we will never succeed in league of Nations.

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  • Akhtar
    Feb 17, 2012 - 10:20PM

    @Arshad: brother, am also a Paki, & I don’t understand how I insulted you? The Indians call themselves Desi’s & we call ourselves Paki’s. What’s wrong?

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  • Ramanujam
    Feb 17, 2012 - 10:38PM

    @Akhtar:
    I think u may not have left your country…In Britain and Canada,Paki is a derogatory word to insult south asians…just like niggers for black people

    Dont you remember how Shilpa Shetty complained of racism when one of the participant in “Big Brother” called her Paki….

    I’m sorry,but the word doesnt go well worldwide and an Non Residential Indian in Europe or US gets really angry when someone calls him/her a Paki…Recommend

  • Observer
    Feb 18, 2012 - 1:18AM

    The partition was a ‘tragedy of errors’. Jinnah was the the most secular leader who believed little in the role of religion in politics before he saw the kind of emotion religion evoked among the people. He made the fatal mistake of trying to use this religious fervour (contrary to his belief and character) as a tool to bargain for greater power and security for the muslim community. Unfortunately, towards the end, the power that he hoped to use as a tool had gained a momentum of its own and forced Jinnah to keep to the path of achieving a separate muslim homeland though he wanted to achieve his goals while staying within the existing framework of the subcontinent.

    Jinnah was also used by the rich and landed class of muslims who wanted to have a domain of their own where they could build on their fortunes bereft of competition from the hindu trading/merchantile class. They used Islam and the fear that Islam would be under treat under a Hindu majority India, as a justification. But the real reasons were pure economics and selfishness. Once they got Pakistan, they just consolidated their jagirs, as was the intent without contributing to any nation building thus dumping Jinnah’s vision after their purpose was served.

    Jinnah was also let down by Nehru who he believed would, as a good negotiator, parley and discuss the various issues Jinnah was putting on the table with regard to security for muslims in the future of India. Nehru stuck rigidly to his ‘strong federal structure’ without willing to discuss any special concessions to muslims. This forced Jinnah to follow through with his treat of demanding a separate homeland for muslims though he had not wished the option to become a reality

    All said and done, Jinnah would have wanted a Pakistan where each Pakistani saw himself/herself as a Pakistani first and then a muslim/Christian/hindu.

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  • T
    Feb 18, 2012 - 2:34AM

    Every one is an idiot here….. These statistics prove nothing…. I am a social scientist myself and I know how these surveys are conducted. For example, when the survey talks about being religious or non-religious, it doesnt give the participant a third choice which is being indifferent. How do you define religiosity is a bigger question…. man people sometimes just need a space to rant…… Think for a second!!! I am sure a true muslim would always prefer religion over national identity…….

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  • Amit
    Feb 18, 2012 - 2:47AM

    @Err

    *@Indian
    I have alot of Hindu friends and I can assure they consider themselves Hindu first then Indian. *

    And I can assure you are telling a lie

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  • Muskan
    Feb 18, 2012 - 2:49AM

    @M.J:
    So non-Muslims in Pakistan, the hindus sikhs and christians of Pakistan can never be good Pakistanis?? based on your statement

    Recommend

  • Raj - USA
    Feb 18, 2012 - 6:54AM

    @Mohammed Sager:
    Your reply is very touching and I can also feel you are a very sincere person.
    I sincerely appreciate your reply and emotions shall bring in attachments also.
    Regards and best wishes,
    Raj

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  • well-wisher
    Feb 18, 2012 - 10:11AM

    @Observer:
    Appreciate your realistic analysis. The fact of the matter is that we are two separate nations for six decades with no chance of becoming one again. I do find a lot of difference in thinking on the religion issue between majority of Indians and Pakistanis which is quite evident from the comments made on this forum. We in India cannot co-exist if one chooses religion as his or her first preference since we have so many religions, caste and creeds, therefore secularism is best for this country, which is working well for us so far. However, Pakistanis despite being Muslims in majority have differences in their ideologies are killing each other, makes a sad story. Hence, considering your country as first and religion second makes a lot sense, is the only way to move forward along with peaceful co-existance amongst the people of ones country.

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  • Cynical
    Feb 18, 2012 - 5:18PM

    @Observer
    A very dispassionate and lucid observation.I also believe that the turn of events coupled with the momentum generated from the hightened religious fervour led Jinnah to a point of no return.So, what was meant to be a mere ‘bargaining tool’ turned out to be a ‘piece (pun unintended) of family heirloom’ he didn’t wish for.
    Thanks again for a thoughtful input.

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