ISLAMABAD:
Member of the Lok Sabha and former Indian external affairs minister Dr Shashi Tharoor blamed Pakistan’s powerful military establishment as ‘the main hurdle’ in direct peaceful relations with India.
Speaking at a policy discussion seminar titled “India and Pakistan: Cooperation or Conflict?” organised by the Jinnah Institute, Tharoor said that New Delhi is genuinely committed to establishing peaceful relations with Islamabad.
“The only apprehension on India’s part was the issue of terrorism; however, we want sustainable peace between the two countries,” he said.
Tharoor went on to say that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is pursuing fresh rounds of peace talks with Pakistan.
However, the Indian Member of Parliament did not stop short of claiming India’s multiple initiatives for peace were not responded to by Pakistan.
“During natural disasters, India offered Pakistan direct donations but they were rejected while the same were accepted when given through the United Nations.”
He said that Pakistan defines itself in opposition to India, and added that cooperation is the only way forward.
Tharoor also welcomed efforts made by President Asif Ali Zardari for trade links with India, and said that it reflected how important it is for Pakistan to normalise relations with India.
However, he said that the civilian initiatives by Pakistan are unlikely to take off because of the strategic view of the Pakistani military.
“Pakistanis interested in peace and regional security will definitely find willing partners in India.”
‘No hand in Balochistan violence’
Tharoor rejected allegations that India was creating trouble in Balochistan. “I am not an ordinary street man who only reads newspapers; I have access to the quarters where decision-making takes place and I can assure you that there is nothing remotely close to what you are assuming,” Tharoor said, while replying to a question.
He added that India is an emerging global player and cannot afford instability in its neighbours.
For the fulfillment of India’s global ambitions, it wants stability in the region which cannot be achieved without a stable Pakistan, he added.
Tharoor served as United Nations’ Under-Secretary General for Communications and Public Information from 1996 to 2007 and currently represents the constituency of Thiruvananthapuram in the Lok Sabha.
Tharoor is among the Jinnah Institute’s the first Distinguished Speakers of the ongoing Indo-Pakistan Track-II engagement termed the Chaophraya Dialogue.
Published in The Express Tribune, January 6th, 2012.
COMMENTS (106)
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Which equality with US, China or any other Donar Nation are you talking about??? When the nation learns to live on other people's handout, equality ends as beggars can not be choosers !!! In regards to relations with India, well creating, supporting and encouraging Proxy warriors to create mayhem in neighbouring nations is not a sign of attempting to build relationships. Even when the facts are placed in front of them, lack of action and considering them as assets also does not bode well in relation building exercise!!!! In regards to Afghanistan, its time Pakistan stop considering it as their provience ! This is an sovereign nation and its people are entitle to decide as to their relations with other nation ! This is not Pakistan's turf or call ! They have been more of hinderance than help in stablising this Nation.
@International spectator: We know about the short falls in my country system ,We know every department of our country where it is going right and where it is wrong but I can't discuss it on international forum or blog because we can't tolerate the others to comment on our internal affairs . In the spirit of having a better world we request India to act like a big country(big economy ,big democracy etc etc.) and take all the measures which are blocking the peace process .We the youth of Pakistan has it very clearly in their minds that we need good relations with India but its not possible without some measures taken by India , for example at present involvement of India in Afghanistan is side lining PAK from economic benefits from Afghanistan,not negotiating on Kashmir (not even on 1/2 of it giving back to PAK) releasing all the reserves that PAK people have on waters and pull back its massive army from borders .India has a chance to win the confidence of PAK People by these measures,this confidence will yield a diversion of thoughts in ours and India's establishment(the main tussle creating people).In the end its all about People , when India take any measure related to PAK then do consider the effect on People of PAK . Do some measures and you will see the establishments of both sides will become ineffective of continuing rivalry. These is my last comment and a constructive conclusion. as 'International spectator' said its true we do want prosperity and growth but don't forget we will make relations on equality basis We the Pakistani nation prefer not to get dictated by other nations which is the case of US(its hard to beleive for anyone in world how much We dislike American Gov. attitude towards our sovereignty) . Thanks
I cant understand why indians comment on pakistani websites and run them down. pakistanis have an India-phobia, and till they are cornered by their own follies or circumstances, they will keep blaming India for their troubles. Indians need not gloat over current Pak miseries /failings. nor be upset by their hatred for India. Whereas Pakistans troubles are all over the world press, and most people are aware about its situation, pakistanis cannot fathom the depth of a billion people country nor its diversity and what makes it get respect and recogonition in the World nor its spirit of federalism and unity. So Indians must forgive pakistanis their lack of understanding of their eastern neighbour. Also, Indians cant wish away pakistan, and pakistan can ignore india at its own peril. Societies evolve over hundreds of years, and perhaps the generation growing up in 2047, will be a different lot with no baggage of the past. Finally all societies and countries are in deep trouble. there is a struggle in the US, in Europe and in Africa, and middle east. So pakistan , nor india are any different. perhaps one a bit worse than the other. Kashmir is not going to be given up by india in anyones lifetime and the world knows how to share rivers and that is what both countries are doing thru a complex mechanism. Everyone has to now take responsibility for climate change. So all bloggers, just take a chill pill and get on with improving the immidiate society one lives in. The poor have no time or inclination to argue about International politics or relations. They just need a better and more secure standard of living. Happy 2012 to all.
@ZP: "Now, follow suit with China building 28 dams in Brahmaputra." We have absolutely no problem with China building as many dams as it wants on Brahmputra. But, if they start diverting waters away from India, they will be called to account even though we don't have a Brahmputra Pact. Pakistan received considerable funding to build water infrastructure like canals and flood-control systems as an inducement to agree to Indus Pact. Did Pakistan build that infrastructure? If it had, it would not be experiencing its water woes today. Instead of taking constructive measures, all Pakistan does is create imaginary problems to drag India to arbitration. Every case it took to arbitration has been lost by it. Pakistan has become a nuisance for India! May be that is the whole idea!
Pakistan is safer and better off without India. India continues to back stab Pakistan with hatred running deep and now it cannot stand the elite Pakistani Military. Who is India to point fingers at Pakistan's Military . . . .it is non of their business and they should be kept at bay all the time!
@Pakistani: your like people don’t give reasons for constructive debate ,such debates lead your counter part to say “go to hell”
Sometimes we need to try to answer the opposite side with their own kind of logic and language they can understand. You can not have normal debate with logical points with someone who uses Islamic logic.
@Phajja Halwai @ZP Excellent Comments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Pakistani: HAHAHa.
As far as I remember reading in physics. Water has no property of generating water. It is only speed of water which is used to move turbines helping generation of electricity. Anyways problem is not your statement, problem is the wrong information given to u by political/ beard bearing mullahs who give inflamattory speaches in madrasas. the information they give to illetrate people just to convert them from a normal pakistani to a terrorist/militant. So be a moderate and talk abt growth and not abt revenge/hatered towards hindus/liberation of kashmir.etc etc
@Aimal - Your theory and thinking is too narrow . . . .If the democratic leadership does Treason against the Pakistani people then, the Pakistani military will take care of them. Pakistan's security comes first and it gives two hoots to what India thinks!
@sundar:Ditto after reading Pakistani's comments i too have lost hope how can u negotiate with people in the "he who knows not and knows not that he knows not" category ?
"Key hurdle to peace"??? He should have been saying "Key hurdle to the Indians walking over Pakistan"! It's a fact ... Pakistan military institutions are the ONLY hurdle's keeping indians at bay! They can rant about economic ties and regional stability and growth all they want on forums such as these but hatred runs deep down ... there will never be "peace" amongst the two nations, regardless of how many songs they can stage and dance upon!
They ruined us in '71 ... they'll ruin us again, if given the chance!
And yes, we don't need India ... i read someone's post saying that it's the neighbors that come to help ... well, damn neighbors who stab in the back! we were and we will always be better off without them ...
@Pakistani is complaining that the water is dirty. Do you expect India to place a filter and provide you with filter water for drinking? LOL! So if India takes all the electricity from the water, the water in pakistan is not potent enough to generate electricity? LOL! I think he means there are no H2O molecules in pakistani water. Blame it on RAW.
G.Din wrote: "@Pakistani: “We are insecure about the reservoirs made by India ,we don’t trust India . “ So what? We don’t care about your insecurities and lack of trust. Both are your problems, deal with them!"
Good advice. Now, follow suit with China building 28 dams in Brahmaputra.
Yes Pakistani military should continue to be a strong obstacle toward Indain plots and sabotage against the Pakistani nation. India has also proven to be the only enemy country Pakistan has, and it is also the ring leader of crimes against Pakistan. Hence the need for Pak military to expand, strengthen itself to protect Pakistan against such plots and crimes to prevent any negative effects on peace, its economy and overall security.
@Usman: If Turkey is the model for Pakistan, will Pakistan be able to take their ex-Generals to court for toppling the democratic governmernts from time to time, as Turkey has recently done by taking arrestimng and taking one of their Ex-Generals to the court recently. moreover Turkey's policy makers keep the religion as a private affair and not a government business. There is no blasphemy law in turkey. I guess that there is a long way to go to emulate Turkey, which will be the best thing for Pakistan if it becomes possible.
With all due respect of above comments who are against the friendship of Indo-Pak,. can't we start a fresh altogether. When we start fresh we should promise that we should not bring past in between. If Pakistan think that it closer to Turkey or Saudi Arabia then so be it. We should not bother about that, after all they ca'nt change their outlook, culture, language and taste which is so similar to our North India.
@Pakistani:"they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity" LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL
@Pakistani: Go check some basic facts, before commenting on issues, that you simply do not have any knowledge of !!! Do you for a minute think that Pakistan would not have made uproar to whoever was willing to listen them, if the water was released by India??? I suggest Pakistan learn to manage its rivers and canals better, as that would solve the problem, rather than blaming others for all their deeds!!! Its obvious that they learnt nothing and did nothing after Floods previous year, and once more the rains arrived and floods occured ! All they managed to do was ask for AID, for the victims, which still has not reached them !!!
We want relations with India but like every other nation there are some confidence building measures to be taken and clearance of some reservations . This is utmost necessity before a concrete foreign relation , the measures which Mr. MP discussed are those which India think are appropriate for them ,but PAK. can't go further unless the see light for some long standing measures get accomplished
the deaths and devastation caused by India during release of waters from Indian side made this point very clear that we don't intend to live with India or keep any affair with India, they always prove to be our enemies not friends/neighbors
@G. Din: and you keep away from talking about what our army is doing or what our government is doing also keep you ministers in check while commenting about our internal affairs. your reservoirs are a theft and we will keep condemning it, If you are a democracy then have courage to respond with reasons.
@Pakistani:
…………they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity…….
after saying this...i dont think u can talk about reasoning
how we robbing ?which things we robbing , get some manners of reasoning first
@Pakistani: "We are insecure about the reservoirs made by India ,we don’t trust India . " So what? We don't care about your insecurities and lack of trust. Both are your problems, deal with them!
@let there be peace: very pathetic words you choose by the way how we are robbing them?which thing is we robbing from them? your like people don't give reasons for constructive debate ,such debates lead your counter part to say "go to hell"
@ZP: The history of the world has proved that the religion is not the cornerstone or basis of any country. Your saying "What unites the whole of Pakistan is its faith" is wrong. If faith could unite then the christian Europe should not have fought two world wars. There would not have been so many Muslim countries in the world and they should not have fought wars. You are misinformed that faith units a country. Grow up.
@Pakistani: If India wants to trade with Afghanistan, whats wrong with that? We are not robbing them like Pakistan and China.
@ZP: You say that "India’s strength is not in its diversity. That’s why you have borders for every ethnic group. That’s why dam issue could provoke tensions and attacks by Chidambaram’s people and Tharoor’s people." Dear Sir please understand that diversity means to live together but having own identity, faith and views.That is why dam issues and many more issues keep coming and will keep coming. The beauty is that our democracy and faith in diversity permits us to resolve these issues.The day we have no issues there will be no progress.
@Pakistani: …………they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity…….
its another person who commented ,its slightly funny I admit :D @G. Din
We are insecure about the reservoirs made by India ,we don't trust India . He can stop water when its critical for Pakistan and can also release it when needed not to be released .WE DON'T TRUST INDIA if you haven't forgotten then it must be clear that in both floods last years the India released the water just at that time when it made the flood more worst . The thing is TRUST , your continuous measures yield a trust deficit .Simple is this conduct such measures which yield trust in People of Pakistan ,show some leadership like China . and one thing more the current wave from your side of peace is also not because you respect us as a neighbor,its because you want trade route and you want low cost transportation of raw material to India from Afghanistan. First do some concrete measures for trust building then say anything else
@Babloo: Excellent comment.
@Phajja Halwai: What ever you may say or pose the truth remains that it is the blood of India that flows in your veins not of Turks or Arabs who came as raiders to India.Good luck for your fantasies. Please remember you speak Urdu and not Turkish or Arabic not even Pushto. You eat the food of this continent and not the food of Arabs. Your folk songs are of Bulle Shah and Fareed and not of Arabia. Your dress is not what the Arabs wear. Above all you neither look like Turks or Arabs. Wake up. You are 100% desi and our brothers.
@Babloo: Infact, you should be nominated for Nobel Prize for your discovery. Pakistan can now raise the shortage of power generation in its country against India in UN.
@ZP:
"We see them often in your country…we are seeing it in now on the borders of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and between borders of Kerala and Tamil Nadu"
Whoa whoa! What are you talking about, dude? These regions you talk about are the most peaceful, growing and vibrant in India! I've lived in Bangalore all my life and for a little while in Chennai, so I guess I know(Please Google to find out which comes where).
Is this canard propagated in your Urdu newspapers or just your imagination? I cant seem to get over the absurdity of your statement!
@Pakistani:
............they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity.......
No debate here. You win.
So India is removing 'electricity' from water , before it flows to Pakistan ? Thats why agricultural output in Pakistan punjab is 1/2 per acre as compared to agricultural output per acre in Indian Punjab ? India has sucked up all the juice from the water ? I wish someone in India got a nobel prize for inventing that.
let there be peace,
What unites the whole of Pakistan is its faith (ask Khan of Kalat why he had a soft corner for Pakistan and Nizam of Hyderabad why he had no heart for India). The reason for the flag of Pakistan to wave highly in KP (and Srinagar) and to be carried to the peak of K2 was the faith that made this land. What broke it were the politicians and chauvinists. We see them often in your country...we are seeing it in now on the borders of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and between borders of Kerala and Tamil Nadu (none of these people gets along or likes each other). Punjabi Sikhs would have had their own homeland if not for your brutal subjugation of them. So would Kashmiris, North-easterners and even the "Dravidians". The hunting down of Bangladeshis by your BSF should remind you of how the "faith" of Bangladeshis fire up your guns. So much for your gunny sacks anology.
The myth you constructed as "we, the people of India" is your powerful myth that you used to gun down Sikhs fighting for their homeland, Kashmiris seeking independence and North-easterners rising for independence. It was this powerful myth of "unity in diversity" which you used to conquer, brutalize and terrorize multiple peoples within your land. The rejection of this myth is not about "negative mindset or negative ideology" but rather an awareness of how nation-state like yours fools and subjugates its masses.
Pakistan has its fair share of ethnic tensions but to assume that "pluralistic and secular" India is devoid of ethnic and religious brutality is to construct a myth to bolster a fictitious nation-state.
I don't think either can be trusted at present on Pakistan's side from India's point of view.
@ZP...LOL...the only honarary intellectual that you could quote is Kancha Illaiyah :)..he he he... Brahmins and Aryans coverted us by force? I thought dalits like Kancha accuse them of not even letting anybody come into temples how would they then convert....???. So please dont contradict yourself and stop quoting dumbos like Kancha of Agneepath :)...
Brahminism was infact elitist and never interested in conversion...and they have been accused of being elitist not for being Missionary.....
Read History of Kashmir, where a Tibetian prince was denied Hinduism by Kashmiri Pandits and he converted to Islam to destroy them...
Dr Priyanka,
Don't worry. We will talk about Bomai killing with hern and him and see her reaction (or should we say hear her justifications).
Kashmir is the master plan to keep Pakistan in eternal terror grip :)...It serves India in everyways :
Wasted Pak youths to fundamentalism, no productivity for economy Wasted tax money on Defence expensesNo wonder Indian Government will not let the issue die untill pakistan becomes a popper state he he he
I simply fail to understand as to why Indian Goverments want to have peace with Pakistan?...India is and will continue to grow without Pakistan...Just as USA did wthout MexicoVenezuala/Brazil/Argentina /Cuba etc....
Infact keeping Pak busy in war games and terror will benefit India by reducing competition :)..from English speaking albiet low IQ workforce :) ...please give me the liberty to pull some healthy punches at my bretheren...
@Pakistani:
Your rivers?. It flows thru India and India is the upper riparian country. As for the Indus water treaty, if India wants it can cancel the treaty, then Pakistan have to sit down and sign a new treaty. As it has worked so far it is better for pakistan to stop harping and threaten war and so forth. No one can stop India if it wants to stop the water and cancel the treaty contrary to all these arguements.
Babloo you are completely wrong. India today is the most divided country. Look at your caste base rotten reservation policies. India's secularism is a sick joke.
@Roflcopter
"Main hurdle is indian occupation of Kashmir."
Likewise Main hurdle is Arab occupation of Indus Valley......Think....
@Pakistani: "they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity. so no compromise with India" Trust me, I am trying very hard to persuade my fellow Indians to take only 50% electricity from the waters and leave some for Pakistan. It is Omar Abdullah and those RSS and Shiv Sena guys who won't listen. Once you have taken all the electricity out of water, it becomes, as you have said, " unusable, quality-less". But, you should not stop demanding your fair share of electricity be left in the waters flowing in your rivers! Fair is only fair!
Isn't Tharoor supposed to be in jail for corruption from that IPL case a few years ago?
@Pakistani: to Ali Wali my demands is simple “We want trade,good relations,peace with India but unless or until the India exactly follow the Indus water treaty we should not go further." When you think that India is not following the Indus Treaty, you take us to arbitration, as required in the Treaty. Your case has not been upheld even in one instance by a neutral arbitrator. You get exactly the same amount of water which you got before dragging us to arbitration. Now, let us suppose Pakistan takes your advice and "does not go any further", how does that help your situation. You would still be without water, isn't it? "...they (Indians) are continuously putting reservoirs on our waters. " Conduct a little experiment, Pakistani. You do have running water in your home, I hope. Open all your taps full blast (it would be like a river flowing). Now, try to "put" a reservoir on all that water not allowing a drop to flow outside your home. Come back and tell us what you did, how you did it and what were the results.
@Cautious: I have been to Turkey and the statement that Turks respect us deeply is not false : )
lettherebepeace,
I also recognized what the father of your constitution had said about Muslims' loyalty and his bitter support for the creation of Pakistan. Too bad not all Muslims in India are aware of how the father of your constitution viewed Muslims and their loyalty.
Babloo,
India's strength is not in its diversity. That's why you have borders for every ethnic group. That's why dam issue could provoke tensions and attacks by Chidambaram's people and Tharoor's people. You also refuse to marry outside of your hierarchy and you create single ethnic neighborhood and wall it off. India's strengths is on how it created myths and propagate and dupe the masses. Kashmiris, North-easterners and some Punjabis left behind in Punjab are not buying it. That's why you are picking up gun to subdue them.
@Waqar ahmed:
"Who sabotaged the musharaf vajpai talks. It was not Pakistan for sure. So Mr. Indian MP don’t give us this crap about our military not wanting peace."
Musharaf invaded Kargil while Vajpayee was on a peace bus tour to Pakistan. I guess you don't read the news.
@ZP: Kashmiris, Punjabis, Sindhis have nothing in common with Malayalees, North-easterners and Tamils. Pakistanis find them to be culturally and physically strange.
That is the effect of the negative ideology and negative mindset you chose for yourself; it's not our fault. We saw in 1971 how you found the East Pakistanis to be culturally and physically strange. The private torture houses and gunny bags with body pieces in Karachi show us how Pakhtoons and Mohajirs find each other culturally and physically strange, and Balochis keep shouting how they have nothing in common with Punjabi's.
@Nahmed:
"Indian military establishment did the same job when Musharraf-Vajpai reached an agreement that was about to be signed but was sabotaged by Indian military hawks."
You are totally misinformed. On military matters, the Indian military certainly advises the civilian leaders. However, it is the civilian leaders who make the decisions based on not only military considerations, but also geopolitical consideration.
Now, is that the same in Pakistan, where foreign policy is actually decided and by the military? The civilians have no power to decide on foreign policy matters.
I think you are totally misinformed or you have got your head buried in sand.
@Roflcopter: Don't even mention Kashmir in front of Shashi Tharoor. His wife is a kashmiri Pandit and he will not let go of either!
India's diversity is its greatest strength. I am a punjabi, Mr Tharoor is a Malayalee married to a Hindu Kashmiri women. None of that matters in termns of our nationhood. We are united in support of a democratic , secular India that seeks to guarantee equality of opportunity and justice to all its citizens.
Religion does not make nations. Fair and equitable laws and constitution do.
@ZP: Suggest picking up books from Kancha Illaih
I'am sure you did feel good and had goosebumps reading some of his articles praising Islam. But did you notice something? - he still did not convert to the final and only true religion from Arabia. He chose Buddhism.
I advise you restrict yourself to such feel good articles and don't even try to know when Dr Ambedkar (you surely know who he was) decided to convert out of Hinduism, why he did not choose the final and true and perfect religion from Arabia ; it might hurt your tender Islamic sentiments.
So we see RAW as main hurdle to peace between Pakistan & Bharat.....
As I see from many comments here , that Kashmir has become ego problem or us. India can afford to stick to their egocause now tleast they are economically stable and has more global reach and influence. On other hand we have loose credibility in every aspect in global theater and still wewant to stick to Kashmir ego. we have to be strong enough and developed enough to demand Kashmir, Else what do you think we will give Kashmir ? A more extremist Pakistan ? They will be treated as mohajirs and then systematically displaced as it happened in kashmir in our side. What actually is the meaning of getting Kashmir at all cost. even if th ecost is the entire nation. It is Pakistani army's humiliated defeat in loosing Bangladesh that they have made it their prime and only agenda to get kashmir. And their agenda has emotionally trickled down to us common citizen who do not have any other goals and direction. Hence we see common Pakistanis come together on Kashmir issue but have no idea what the issue is, we just want Kashmir no matter we loos "Pakistan".
Cautious,
Don't feel the bitterness. Pakistanis are welcome in Turkey. Pakistanis have a lot of things in common with Turks. The question should be: what do you Indians have in common with the Turks, Arabs and Iranians? Don't worry about our passport. Your passport sent chill and fear in many Western and non-Western countries. All the English-speaking you have done did not help much in convincing Westerners that you won't cheat them on their rules. Plus, Iranians were helping Pakistan when you were at war with Pakistan. The same Iranians you seemed to admire. Your nation went berserk when Khamanei offered prayers for "Muslims of Kashmir". Any chance Iranians, Turks and Arabs offer prayers for you?
Babloo,
"Plunderers of history"? If that is so, stop sucking tourists by showing Taj Mahal as your country's symbol. The Rajputs and Brahmins were not "plunderers" and "invaders" who converted you to who you are today? Self-reflection is needed in you. Suggest picking up books from Kancha Illaih, maybe he's too controversial for you, but I assumed you probably have picked up books from KS Lal and absorbed his "facts", so Kanca Illaih will offer a different yet interesting perspective.
Vinod,
Have you heard about Muslim influences in your culture? Why don't you speak Urdu? Kashmiris, Punjabis, Sindhis have nothing in common with Malayalees, North-easterners and Tamils. Pakistanis find them to be culturally and physically strange. Well, you have the same problems, that's why you hate the presence of South Indians in Mumbai and North-easterners in Delhi and yet pretend that all of you share the same culture. There's no one singular culture in this region. The Indian state constructed that myth to hold tightly to lands it does not possess.
@Usman:
I am sure that would be news to anyone in Turkey. Your green passport would not be considered an asset when traveling through customs in Turkey.
@Ex Hindu: your theories can be applied only in pakistan
The biggest hurdle is political corruption followed by radical groups like LeT,JuD.
@Ali Wali: Business of war ? I think you have confused Pakistan with America Pakistan only has state arms producers India and America have private war factories owned by businesses . Common person in Indian elite does not want peace and they see Pakistan as an obstacle to Indian world domination
@vinod, its foolish to try to understand why Pakistan is what it is. Mr Usman is not alone, most pakistanis pride themselves after plunderers of history who were not from pakistan , but came from Iran, turkey, afganistan and ravaged there ancestors. They have even named chinese and korean made missiles after Mahmud of ghori and ghazni ! India is best served to totally ignore, isolate and disangage from pakistan.
@Usman: You say "infact we pride ourselves in being close to Turkey when it comes to national identity" Why Sir when your blood line, Language, dress, cuisine and culture is from subcontinent of India and your history is embedded all over India right from Kasmir to Kanyakumari & Dhaka to Peshawar ? Why do you pride to change your unique national identity to Turkey. Sounds very queer.
Hurdle to Peace or hurdle to Subjugation of the Pakistani people ?
@Nahmed: You say "Tit for tat. Indian military establishment did the same job when Musharraf-Vajpai reached an agreement that was about to be signed but was sabotaged by Indian military hawks." Indian establishment has no say on such matters. In fact it is widely known that it was some one within BJP Government who became the hurdle. Many feel it was his own home minister.
they are developing industry in India which wiil use Afghanistan minerals as raw material, striving 4 peace is just to have trade route from PAK
India is always anti-pakistan, whether its for good or bad, unlike we Pakistanis. and they are giving us unusable, quality-less water after the generation of electricity. so no compromise with India
Main hurdle is indian occupation of Kashmir.
@Straight_Talk would you please explain the legality of reservoirs on our rivers ?are you sure about yourself that you read the treaty ?what about influencing PAK gov to have trade route without the wish of People of PAK?
@Usman:
Yeah! we know that you are all Arabs!!
@Irum:
Stop being delusional. This is not a game children play and fight and want their" toys" returned back. Niether does pakistan own Kashmir nor the river waters. All europe shares one riven-Danube. have you ever heard anyone say its "his" river?? the nile runs from uganda to egypt? anyone ever heard of it being a countrys riven? Trouble with pakistan is that too much nonsense against india is shouted by the mullah brigade, who are unfortunately illiterate and have never no clue to international collaborations.
@Sane Voices Dont bet, infact save every paisa because you will need to keep the change for the future. Even the US (upon goading by India) has tried to isolate us, but the reality is that inorder to exit smoothly from Afghanistan they need Pakistan, the entire region for its stability needs Pakistan,for Afghanistan talks to suceed they need Pakistan, inorder to bring Talib to the table to end the war they need Pakistan. Infact, if the recent post- salala attack reaction by Pakistan is any indication (where Pak shut down the supplies, drone attacks had to stop, and the US is begging Pakistan to restart talks) it is Pakistan that has the upper hand and not the other way around. Yes despite being a mess for past 10 years, we are still needed alot more than India is needed, so no, we dont need our Indian neighbours, In any case we have China, on our side, and they will be alot bigger game changers than you. So dream on, the writing is on the wall but if only you knew how to read it!
So many people are commenting about the Indus Water Treaty here. Reading at their comments i wonder how many of them have actually read and understood the treaty ? India has not violated the Indus Water Treaty ever. Indian did not do that during the 4 wars that it fought with Pakistan. why would it do now ? Pakistan has always got its volume of water as per the treaty.
There are others here who are raising the issue of kashmir. Can anybody tell me what Pakistan really want in Kashmir ? My understanding is Pakistan wants kashmir to remain an issue so that this tension persists.Pakistan has consistently played a bigger role in the world affairs compared to its size and strength as a nation only because of the Kashmir issue. How can it kill the goose that lays the golden eggs ?
we need each other whether we like it or not.
Secondly, pakistan is not a tow boat, where it can pull it self away from india and go to turkey or saudi. The way india seeks peace, same shold u.
Finally, Kashmir dispute and water problems can be solved, only if your Larger than life military stops trying to revenge 1971 debacle. As histry shows, u can never win by force
resolve the issue of waters , put 35% minerals processing industry in Pakistan then we are wiling to give India MFN status and ready for giving trade corridor .
@Ali Wali , We Pakistanis don't want war , don't want our establishment keeping bad relations with India , I am real and I know very well how much agriculture is important for Pakistani people , I don't put a stock in what the so called establishments doing on both sides ,my demands is simple "We want trade,good relations,peace with India but unless or until the India exactly follow the Indus water treaty we should not go further. Water is the matter of life and death to Pakistan,no water then no talks .the survival of my country is first , water is the lifeline in economy of 90% population of my motherland" It was a time when I did consider good relations with India but then I concluded that they are opportunist,seeing the week gov in PAK they are continuously putting reservoirs on our waters.
@Pakistani: The dams that India is building are not holding up water of the rivers. India is just using the water flow to generate electricity and then letting the water flow over to Pakistan. Even with the Kishenganga project the water volume flowing into Pakistan is not curtailed. The water flow has been diverted so that the main water column enters Pakistan at a different point. Non of these are in violation of the Indus Water Treaty which defines how much of the water of each of the concerned river India and Pakistan will receive.
If Pakistan has some new issues it can always ask for a new agreement which then will obviously be a political question and would weigh in the current state and depth of Indo-pak goodwill.
i disagree with tharoor. peace b/w india and pakistan is all about kashmir.this is india's strategy when there is a civillian govt in pak keep harping that the civilian govt in pak can not make the final call and when there is military govt keep saying the army does not want a solution.india will never settle kashmir....mushraf (pak military) came out of the standard positions and gave out of the box solutions....then what....india does not want to settle kashmir...its in their favour.....india will never settle kashmir....this is their game plan.
@Irum: give me 1 more week, plss pakistaneeee.........
If India doesn't have a hand in Balochistan why on earth does Bugtis Grandsons hide in India and meet RAW agents? Pakistan doesn't have the strength to unnecessarily cause havoc in India but Indians never learn therefore Pakistan does it's own interference in India
Who sabotaged the musharaf vajpai talks. It was not Pakistan for sure. So Mr. Indian MP don't give us this crap about our military not wanting peace.
Absolute majority of Pakistanis want peaceful relations with India, except the one in the business of war, presumably same can be said for Indians. @Pakistani: whether you like it or not Afghans including Talibans will take offence on your megalomania remarks, get real, ordinary Pakistanis want our establishment to sort out our daily life problems, Jamat Islami agenda is for disillusioned.
Pakistan don't need any peace talks with india unless India gave independence to Kashmir and follow Indus water treaty.
Pak military had in the past created many obstacles in normalisation of relations between the two countries but presently its attitude appears to be less hardened towards India which is a positive development. Hope the military realises that good relations is the key to return of prosperity in Pakistan since the country spends 25 percent of its GDP on its defence as against 2 percent by India.
Who in the world are trusting Pakistan?
@Someone:
You can bet your last paisa that you need India more than ever before. Being delusional only leads to disaster. when no one comes to your help, only neighbours help.
the most important factor regarding relationships with India is the question of water , Indus treaty clearly mention this thing that no country in agreement can make water reservoirs of any kind on the rivers included in treaty . Our civilian government is failed to address this issue now our hopes rest with our army , they must understand the sensitivity that 'Pakistan is an Agricultural Country'
eye on minerals industry of Afghanistan ? well we the Pakistani nation are very frustrated on your blockage of our water by your Dams .We want peace but just because of Water issue we don't want a relation with which supports India with Trillion dollars minerals industry .
you are just concerned of the Trillion dollars minerals from Afghanistan . How can anyone from Pakistan trust a country who is occupying its waters ?
Thats true, In India we respect our Military as they protect us, but in this modern era we dont expect much role from them as we expect role of economists . Indian military leaders are not allowed to make political statement. Moreover we dont expect military coup ever in our life. Unfortunately in pakistan the military leaders are like political lords who creat policies & laws in direct or indirect manner.
We don't need India.
Tit for tat. Indian military establishment did the same job when Musharraf-Vajpai reached an agreement that was about to be signed but was sabotaged by Indian military hawks. I wionder why he was not answered at that moment by someone listening him.
He is absolutely right