‘Blocking NATO routes says a lot about our ties’
In an event organised by the Atlantic Council think tank, General Dempsey said it was regrettable that Pakistan’s military thought airstrikes on the border posts in Mohmand Agency was intentional. “They believe we did this intentionally, in some way or the other, to discredit them or to goad them into further action.”
He said it was incomprehensible for him that Pakistan believed that, based on the US efforts to build the relationship over time. “If you think we did, I have to ask, what in the world would we hope to gain from doing this.”
“As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the Nato airstrikes,” Gen Dempsey asserted.
Recalling that Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and him were batch mates at Fort Leavenworth, he said that he had spoken to him after the Nato airstrikes, and other US officials had also been in touch with their Pakistani counterparts.
Dempsey said the US could adjust the supply routes for Nato, but added it would be more expensive.
“The real problem for me is not the cost …what’s troubling me is that Pakistan would close the routes and what it says about the relationship,” he said.
Regarding the torching of Nato oil tankers, the US military chief said the US does not pay for the fuel until it gets delivered.
Published in The Express Tribune, December 10th, 2011.
COMMENTS (78)
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if this is not enough then go for another rout for supply why so much worry about it, we should know take the tax over these supply line it will help us for economy to sustain and not looking for any aid. currently they are paying us just Rs.40 Per container thats nothing.
Oh Pakistan....you are so interesting!! I love to hate you :-)
@ex-muzzie: "they were chasing the taliban inside afghanistan, but those taliban managed to reach pakistan border and don their soldier dress. had they been killed inside afghanistan, pakistan would have disowned these soldiers, either stating they are not pakistani soldiers or that they went rogue and did not have state support"
They had done exactly that in Kargill and now even Musharraf owns up to that..
@Hafeez Pasha: and who pays the NATO contractors? ( Again, I presume US doesnot, as the fuel was not delivered safely?)
Vienna,December 10,2011 The mess is to stay may be another decade. Pakistan will pay for it.Already Pakistani politicians are speaking Punjab and Sindh make a single Pakistan, meaning the rest of the geographical area as mere colonies.Common sense should assert, Pakistan is united covering all parts of the geographical boundary including Balochistan and Fata.Any escalation even by proxy against the United States would have disasterous consequences.What General Dempsey has not said should be taken into account by the sensible.In such tense moments all unsaid should make sense. Making up with Tehriq e Taleban Pakistan whould invite all troubles ceding commanding role to TTP. That would be suicidal for a nation. Taravadu Taranga Trust for Media monitoring TTTMM India --Kulamarva Balakrishna
Instead of Pakistan, now US is relying on Karimov and company! http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29900.htm In Bed With Lola and Gulnara By Craig Murray
@sadhu: Mr most of the are in pakistan but their thread is in india, first go and ask your govt to stop supporting them so they can stop sucide bombs in pakistan.
Killing 24 Pakistani soilders by NATO said already a lot about our ties
main thing hid from people of pakistanis that the nato containers passing thru pakistan are property of pakistan. nato only pays for the fuel when it is delivered. all the tankers that are burned down, all the tankers that had gone missing from the ports, ONLY PAKISTAN LOST FROM THEM. govt loss, peoples loss. and now because people dont know about, they enjoy after learning about the torching of nato containers.
the person who had signed the nato contract on the behalf of usa/nato had the wits about it
@Cautious: Such questions are neither heeded nor ever answered by any one in Pakistan. One similar question AS TO WHY AND TO WHAT PURPOSE INDIA WILL ATTACK PAKISTAN is also never faced by any one responsible? The jargon goes on INDIA the arch enemy...... India the arch enemy......
@Basit: An investigation by the culprit (NATO) is worthless to be part of. It’s like asking Al Qaeda to investigate 9/11 attacks. You can't compare the two. The west with all its shortcomings is still credible with lots of dissents within its societies and active civil society unlike the Muslim countries and especially rouge entities like Pakistan, Saudi, Somalia which are ruled in accordance with the Islamic principles.
Previous investigations by NATO on attacks on allies have resulted in NATO always getting a pass and no punishments to its troops. True, punishment is meted to the guilty and not to whom you want to consider guilty! That is the difference between secular justice and Islamic justice.
“As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the Nato airstrikes,” Gen Dempsey asserted.
If you not aware of what is happening inside your domain then you are not "THE RIGHT" person to sit in this position.Better resign and let some competent person do the work.
Mistake or no mistake. The attack DID happen and lives were lost. Having said that, why dont WE react like this when civilians have been dying of similar incidents? Their tally is clearly much larger. To add to this, why dont we take this stance with various lashkars etc. who have killed thousands in terror strikes? What are we upto anyway?
It is quite strange. Mr Dempsey class fellow is recognized sponser of terrorist safe havens & sucide bombers like Siraj Haqani etc. Is this what they teach in Fort Leavenworth? We the people of the world request the Admininstration of Fort Leavenworth to please change your course conetents. Better teach your students to fight respectable wars Army against Army. They should discourage their students to kill civilians or train orphans & children from poor familes to become sucide bombers. Outsourcing of wars to sucide bombers should be considered as war crime.
Killing 24 allied soldiers says it all. Deliberate killing, planned and executed with malicious intent and you have the cheek to say 'blocking NATO route says it all' Killing was Okay was it??? You all insist it was not deliberate, then was it accidental ?? friendly fire ?? if yes, then what is holding you, your government and your white house not to "apologize" and offer personal level condolences to families of those killed by you. In time you will realize what folly you committed. Price is going to be too high, for both of us. Still there is time for you to climb down the ladder of 'ego' and machoism. Aplogize formally now and soon and we all can get on with what we all are supposed to do. If not, then ego will have to be broken and so shall it be.
Excuse me General Dempsey, if the attack was not intentional then your forces are idiots and should have been cleaning toilets in some fast food joint in NY. You have to be a certified moron to attack a clearly marked post on top of a mountain whose coordinates have already been given to you. This is not WW2 we are talking about. With all your sophiticated gadgetry and technology how can you miss attacking such a location. And you are having problem apologizing. Sorry dont buy that. DO MORE, NO MORE!
@RizwanTKhan: they were chasing the taliban inside afghanistan, but those taliban managed to reach pakistan border and don their soldier dress. had they been killed inside afghanistan, pakistan would have disowned these soldiers, either stating they are not pakistani soldiers or that they went rogue and did not have state support. Only thing in this whole episode is that nato's response was a bit slow.
@CK: Do you think a Chief of General Staff has operational control over every small skirmish? You've got to be kidding.
CK: Last I checked US is still the economic engine of the world. It is still growing at a rate of 3% on top of an economy that's 3 times larger than nearest (China), with 1/4th the population. If you consider NATO GDP, it is approximately 7-8 times larger than the any other block's GDP.
US is not in deep trouble like most other countries. Its debt-to-equity ratio is far lesser than a lot of developed countries (including Japan). It has a hickup at best. Incontrovertibly, the hickup is caused by a bone in its throat (Af-Pak, Iraq war).
But, it can easily recover over half a dozen years. It still has the best infrastructure, best education, best scientific pool, best system (working democracy) for a large country and most importantly a large unused land base that provides far excess food that it needs. It can beat China-India together in GDP, it opens its border to take in about 50million highly qualified immigrants, as the only true advantage China-India have over US is large population (cheap labor).
So, One can underestimate US at their own peril.
What ties? You have already untied them !
The greatest lie,falsehood and fabrication and hypocritical statement from US' leaders once again by saying so that this attack was unintentional and was conducted mistakenly.When Pakistani flag and white flag were hoisted on the Salala check post why NATO's chopper didn't see it?Now stop telling the lie,falsifying and fabricating and giving hypocritical statements and admit that this attack was intentional and NATO's choppers conducted this attack by knowing every thing because this has been you favorite habit to violate other countries' territories and borders even aerial borders and consider it your basic right.Now enough is enough.
@Arindom:
Pakistani taxpayers are not paying for the fuel, NATO contractors are.
Killing our innocent civilians and troops says a lot about our ties.
Norms of service do not permit General Dempsey to refer his fellowship with General Kayani; after happening the fatality by his under commands.
@CK: Please do not tell me that Pakistan is still in infancy at 64 that is spoon fed with aid. Why blame others? Ask for heads to roll who are depriving aid amoney intendted for the good people of Pakistan. You cannot do that but can only comment hatred.
Keep pretending it was by mistake. Keep fabricating words. We know who you are, our enemy.
General Dempsey said, “As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the NATO airstrike.” What an idiot! As US Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff.
@You Said It: What do you have to say about the duplicity of Colin Powell's famous Presentation at UN about mobile chemical laboroties or the WMD in IRAQ? Where anyone was able to find it OR was it denied that there were atually none - How you would like to explain the duplicity of US or its lie in the face of world?
Tut tut... To bad general.... you only killed 24 of their soldiers and a few thousand civilians casualties and then Pakistan ovre reacts.... how bad is that!!
General Martin Dempsey
Mr. we r poor...we r hungry....But Not Beghairt. USA always hit us in the back
@antanu: Is army and ISI under your governments control!
@Basit: You are continuously lying since 1947!
@waqar: Turn them over!
@Babloo: No Pak public is gullible. The military an dthe generals will milk US a little more for opening up the routes.
NATO has clear lines of communication to the Pakistani military. NATO asked the PAK military if they had any troops in the area where AFGANI troops on AFGANI soil were attacked - the PAK military said "No troops in the area". NATO had to assume the troops were Taliban. So clearly it was Pakistani military incompetence that caused the 24 deaths.
The War on Terror is not a US war - it's one all people and governments should support. Radicals of any form are bad. How many Pakistani Sufi shrine worshippers must be bombed and killed, how many Pakistani Shia must be killed in Holy Mosques before Pakistan wakes up to the evil of Radical Militant Islamists?
All this money - some 11 billion dollars given to Pakistan over the last 10 years - what has it been spent on? Education? No. Infrastructure? Not much. Nuclear weapons - Yes! Can Pakistan afford this expensive status symbol - only with American dollars - what a waste !
Nato should have more strike like this love It 28 less terrorist
“As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the NATO airstrike.”
Almost 2 weeks and he doesn't have a clue what happened? NATO has come up with lie after lie and only fools like Cautious would believe NATO...in fact even Cautious knows NATO is lying but I guess when you hate Pakistan so much even lies are good ;)
It is funny to see all these allegations of duplicity against the US coming from Pakistanis. Is it hard for Pakistanis to believe that Dempsey could be speaking the truth, because let's face it -- Pakistani generals never would share the truth in such a situation? Or is it the fear that someone else may have mastered the art of duplicity that was earlier Pakistan's gameplan.
Hey, if US doesnot pay for the oil tankers till it is safely delivered, then who is paying for all the damage? Pakistani taxpayers I presume?
if the military hasn't figured this situation out by now then either they need to stop talking about it or get some new people in there.
The General and President Obama should get their daughters converted to Islam to show their remorse. Nothing less will be acceptable to true Momins.
Those who are looking for a confrontation with ISAF should br tried for treason. The sad thing is that they are living in the West in their comfort and we in pakistan will die for thei stupidty.
Even if I want to make money like Veena Malik and publish a book titled ‘How to convert an illiterate into a literals’ not one Pakistani will read it until is sanctioned by the Mullahs, their tainted textbooks or by the establishment. To the Pakistanis these entities are more important than truth.
hmmmm
Instead of attempring to feign ignorance and give the appearance of the wounded party, all General Dempsey has to do is, admit to gross incompetence on their part, resulting in death of 24 Pakistani soldiers, or admit to a deliberate act. All he has to do is apologize and make a firm commitment that it will never happen again and compensate dead and wounded soldiers and their families and the problem of Nato supply routes could be resolved.
Despite what Dempsey says and US politicians say, they know full well that US cannot last more than three months in Afghanistan without Pakistan supply routes. It is time to acknowledge Pakistan's support and the the ungratefulness has to end.
Balatant denial of wrongdoing only exposes the evil face of US policy. Its really laughable...a person at such high position does not know what is going on..either you are incompetent or CIA is not under govt.control..then how could Pak agencies be criticized for not being under Govt.control?
@Cautious: Again...you find the words coming from US as devine...its slavery
@Mohammad Ali Siddiqui: The war on terror and the sad loss of 40,000 Pakistanis would not have happened if the establishment was playing a double game by arming and supporting Haqqani terrorists.Yes, you might call me crazy, but ponder for a moment if this could be true.
"Recalling that General Kayani and him were batch mates at Fort Leavenworth, he said that he had spoken to him after the NATO airstrikes, and other US officials had also been in touch with their Pakistani counterparts."
hmmmm...... !! so coordination at multiple tears as it was happening ?
@Raja Qaisar-UK: Are you that naive that USA has bankrupted Pakistan. Do you know or for that matter care, how many US$ billions are siphoned by the politicians, establishment and the bureaucrats of the money USA gives. Sorry but this is denial number 1,000,001.
@CK:
And last I checked money is the biggest problem for the Pak nowdays. Who should resign?.
“As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the NATO airstrike.”
US has gun camera footage, UAV imagery, radio intercepts plus many other sensors. They know EXACTLY what happened within hours if not minutes of the attack. Dempsey is a lying fool.
@Cautious: An investigation by the culprit (NATO) is worthless to be part of. It's like asking Al Qaeda to investigate 9/11 attacks.
Previous investigations by NATO on attacks on allies have resulted in NATO always getting a pass and no punishments to its troops.
People who don't read passed the title are obvious in these comments already.
Real leaders have taken a good stance..should have done it a long ago..but..DER AYE DARUST AYE..
General Dempsey said, “As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the NATO airstrike.”
This shows that neither the Pentagon nor the statement department is aware of the TRUE and HONEST picture of what went wrong.....OR they are simply hiding the truth - Seems like Pakistan is correct in their assessment.Does cost is not a trouble??????
Bombing your own ally tells a lot about this relationship as well!
well go to hell general and mind your own business, we in pakistan are responsible for the security of american in USA. take your war to your soil and fight it over there.
take your taliban in a flight and fight them in washigton and new york but not in afghanistan and espically not in pakistan.
'Alluding to the torching of NATO oil tankers, the US military chief said the US does not pay for the fuel until it gets delivered'.
So all this loss is on the head of Pak. Yesterday, so many commentores were happy on this action. Should I Congratulate them or be sad (treason?). It seems that they have 'deep pockets'.
Well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr General, the Paksitan closing of NATO routes tells me that you have been a gullible fool for 60 years.
Yes, just like attack on a Check Post and killing of soldiers tells a lot about US-Pakistani relationship...As simple as that.
The general said "Alluding to the torching of NATO oil tankers, the US military chief said the US does not pay for the fuel until it gets delivered." This means the dharna and Islamists are not torching the NATO tankers but killing Pakistan's economy. No wonder Paksitan is doing so poorly despite all the aid. We are happy to burn our money!
I am sure that US General Dempsey would be aware that in maintaining relations with US, Pakistan has lost 40,000 of its valuable citizens in fighting US war on terror on Pakistan’s soil and thousands have been fatally injured.
Now US is experiencing great difficulties in supplying the required stuff to NATO forces through former Soviet routes which is much more expensive and still they are not reliable.
By closing NATO routes, Pakistan has taken a wise decision which would have been taken long time back. This shows that Pakistan’s national leadership is matured enough to take any kind of decision which will be in the interest of the country.
Attacking Pakistani posts and killing own allies tells alot about US-Pakistan relationship.If you are in a conflict for 10 years you know each and every post clearly.Mistake is not possible.
“If you think we did, I have to ask, what in the world would we hope to gain from doing this." . Worth repeating -- seems like Pakistani's are too busy bashing the USA to even bother to answer the question. That fact that you are unwilling to participate in an investigation leads one to conclude that Pakistan doesn't care about the why - something that implies that your leaders are using this tragedy to pursue their own agenda.
If this statement is true, “As I sit here today, I don’t know what happened in the NATO airstrike.”
He should resign as he has no control over his forces. And last I checked money is the biggest problem for the US now days.