The Marabar Caves complex

Published: August 3, 2011

Balochistan is like Marabar Caves. No matter what one says the echo turns it into a monotonous ‘boum’; and while something always happens, no one gets to the bottom of it. Allegations, defence, theories, nothingness and more of the same. Forster was asked what happened at the Marabar Caves. He said he didn’t know. In Balochistan, on all sides of the conflict, everyone seems to know everything and yet, scratch deeper and one realises that fact and fiction intersect with such bewildering frequency that sifting the grain from the chaff becomes an exercise in deep frustration.

Take the example of recent sectarian attacks. I sat thinking about them as the plane began the descent to Quetta Airport. The narrative is rather simple: the peaceful Hazara community is being targeted by a sectarian terrorist organisation. I remembered visiting, last December, what the Hazara call the Martyrs’ Graveyard, close to the Marriabad locality where Koh-e Murdar begins to get diminutive. The expanded wing of the graveyard has more graves of people killed in subsequent sectarian attacks. Finding: the Hazara have suffered and continue to at the hands of Deobandi sectarian terrorists.

But wait. Take a look at another set of ‘facts’. On July 28, as Abdul Karim Mengal, a Deobandi prayer leader at Jamia Albadar comes out of a mosque near Pishin Bus Stop, two motorcyclists kill him. Sources on both sides of the divide and in the police say there’s strong suspicion that the killers were linked to Allama Maqsood Domki, the chief of Balochistan’s Jafaria Alliance, and belonged to Dera Allah Yar, Allama Domki’s birthplace.

Domki himself was attacked in 2009 and his guards killed one of the assailants. In June this year, about 170 people from the Hazara community were invited by the Iranian government to attend the death anniversary of Ayatollah Khomeini. “They were feted by the Iranian government. We don’t know what they were told but this year’s Shab-e Barat saw the biggest-ever celebration known to Quetta’s Shia community. They cut a 40 lbs cake, a novelty. It was an aggressive show,” a Hazara told me.

The chairman of Hazara Democratic Party, Abdul Khaliq Hazara, was even more forthcoming as I sat in his baithak sipping kehwa and talking to him. A man with a sense of humour, he criticised both Deobandi terrorists and Hazara and other Shia religious leaders. “They play in the hands of Iran, our religious leaders,” he said. Not one to mince words Khaliq has quite often fallen foul of Shia clerics for objecting to their sectarian sermons and being close to Iran. “Funds come from Iran through their consulate and we see this action-reaction pattern which takes toll of Hazara life.”

Law enforcement officers corroborate the Iranian connection but are more squeamish about the LeJ terrorists. How did Usman Saifullah Kurd, the LeJ terrorist, manage to escape from a high-security ATF prison situated in Quetta cantonment? What about Daud Badini? One source alleges that the night Kurd escaped, some Hazara guards were relieved from duty and the roster changed. It is difficult to corroborate this story especially if the duty roster was indeed changed unless one could compare it with the original roster. It would be naive to think that would still exist. But the question remains: how did Kurd escape?

Hazara clerics seem convinced the LeJ is supported by some elements in the establishment. This is the terrain of allegations which is utilised by all sides in Balochistan. The Deobandi side alleges that former General-President Pervez Musharraf had a policy of placing Shia officers in key positions, another allegation.

The problem with these allegations is that they are based on the group’s own narrative and draw on some elective fact(s) to weave a tapestry that is then mouthed and written about regularly until it is accepted as the gospel truth within that group. The Baloch think they have been deprived while a Pashtun journalist said to the army chief during a function in Quetta on August 1 that the Pashtun think the entire thrust of development is directed towards the Baloch because the latter have picked up the gun – “Should the Pashtun do the same to make their voice heard?”

The army has its own narrative; but equally, within the army, there is much scepticism about the policy of ignoring Baloch sub-nationalist groups. Recently, Commander Southern Command, Lt-Gen Javed Zia, a thinking officer who has worked very hard in the province, was criticised for saying that he didn’t think those who burnt the flag were traitors and should not be engaged. But on the Baloch side ask anyone and they would convincingly tell you that the army thinks as a monolith and its one agenda is to kill the Baloch.

It has become a war of narratives and everyone persists with theirs, deepening the existing fault-lines.

Reader Comments (54)

  • Arifq
    Aug 3, 2011 - 10:27PM

    Ejaz Haider is back! This is the Haider is like to read, insightful, bold and objective. Thanks

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  • Noor Nabi
    Aug 3, 2011 - 10:45PM

    This narrative, too, nullifies the wisdom of the two-nation theory. Sectarian killings combined with ethnic cleansing in Balochistan, mirrored by similar events in Karachi, seem to be the tip of the iceberg. What “unity” what “faith” and what “discipline”?

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  • mind control
    Aug 3, 2011 - 10:45PM

    @Ejaz Haider
    Sir, you claim,
    Recently, Commander Southern Command, Lt-Gen Javed Zia, a thinking officer who has worked very hard in the province, was criticised for saying that he didn’t think those who burnt the flag were traitors and should not be engaged.
    Well in the season of multiple narratives,according to another source, this is what Gen Javed Zia is supposed to have said,
    “Talking to the press recently, Lieutenant-General Javed Zia denied that the missing Baloch were kidnapped and killed by the army, the FC or the ISI. He said some people, who for monetary gains burnt the Pakistani flag or carried out subversive activities, were hit by ‘patriotic elements’. ‘
    Will the real Gen Zia stand up please. Or is it only the spin master who is trying to array Gen Zia on the side of the ‘traitors’ and against the ‘patriots’.Recommend

  • Aug 3, 2011 - 10:47PM

    This is well written but I object to your use of term, Deobandi terrorists and ignoring the fact that Shia terrorists, is also a term of reference. Why use one and leave another? Are you being subjective here?

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  • Asim.
    Aug 3, 2011 - 11:31PM

    AOA. These narratives are a natural fallout when and wherever there is unabated tolerance for criminalization of society, to the extent that it inundates everything – from street to parliament… and from pulpit to politics. Add to it the absence of social justice and the recipe for disaster is complete. Unity gives way to factionalisation, and dialogue relents to violence. Only thing required by the Neo Leaders is a face to show as enemy and a narrative to drive in the victim feeling in their “followers”. Instead of rasing their voice of protest and condemnation for all against the atrocities that are being perpetrated, their entire compassion is reserved for their “own people” – driving the wedge of division further deep in the hearts and minds.

    Rule of Law directed towards restoring the order of social justice is the only way out, only way. Without this … the factionalisation will go on increasing, inviting the foreign forces even more to play their game by not allowing the dust to settle down – even if it comes to settling at all.

    Blame army, blame separatists, blame Iran, blame US , India… the list is endless. But the antidote is Only ONE … Social Justice ensured by a unflinching commitment to the Rule of Law.

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  • Naveed Baloch
    Aug 4, 2011 - 2:03AM

    a good piece of writing and quite in-depth analysis of the situation. The fact is that the Hazaras are being patronized by the establishment (by the general mushi in particular) as well as by the Iranians. On the contrary, the Lej is also being nurtured by a section of the establishment. It seems that currently the Lej is given the license to kill with impunity. However, what the covert game may be, the killing of this minority tribe in such a way is condemning . As far as the Baloch and Pashtuns are concerned, its quite evident that who is patronized and who is being repressed.

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  • My Name is Khan
    Aug 4, 2011 - 2:48AM

    @ Asim – great post brother. We have to respect each other before we can move Pakistan forward.

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  • Akram
    Aug 4, 2011 - 5:11AM

    The hearsay on Iranian funding but no reference to big time sectarian financiers from Saudi and UAE render the writer unbalanced. What else can you expect from the paid journalists.

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  • asif
    Aug 4, 2011 - 5:56AM

    Why Mr. Haider felt it necessary to weave-in oblique reference to ‘Passage to India’ is beyond me. All the same, word pedantic comes to mind. Mr Ayaz Amir is another such scribe who excels at alluding to things that leaves even our most well-educated citizens puzzled.

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  • Mirza
    Aug 4, 2011 - 7:11AM

    The army should get out of Balochistan and release the lost people, it has detained. Bringing the small Hazara sect to the level of proven Wahabi/Salafi terrorists is a shame and dishonesty at its lowest.

    The Deo which was band in India has been out and thriving. It is therefore you can jump to the conclusion that the killing of Baloch leaders is not the problem but India has exported the Deo to Pakistan. We are all innocents and as always it is other’s fault.

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  • Hasan Mehmood
    Aug 4, 2011 - 10:29AM

    {But wait. Take a look at another set of ‘facts’. On July 28, as Abdul Karim Mengal, a Deobandi prayer leader at Jamia Albadar comes out of a mosque near Pishin Bus Stop, two motorcyclists kill him}
    A single individual incident mentioned to balance the almost daily massacres of bus passengers / cadets / vegetable sellers / faceless labourers etc duly acknowledged by the likes of LJ. They did not spare even gold medal winning boxer. Was he a prayer leader or cleric? Hazara’s maybe getting support and funding from Iran, but how many indiscriminate bombings and killings have they carried out?Recommend

  • N
    Aug 4, 2011 - 10:46AM

    These days no article ends without a favorable reference to the Army.
    Thanks for giving us the Khaki narrative in what they think is “right”. And equally thanks for giving us all a respite from Aatish, Shashi and India. The GHQ boys ought to be happy for the Khaki points scored.

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  • M Baloch
    Aug 4, 2011 - 11:03AM

    Aijaz Haidar seems either quite excellent in lies(most probable) or doesn’t know iota of the situation there?
    Hazara are being targeted since how long? After Moulana Mengal’s murder? Baloch Moulana Mengal’s murder is alleged to another Baloch but Shia leader Moulana Domki, so how hazara came there? Allegations of murder to Moulana Domki are equivalent to LeJ’s claiming responsibility for the carnages? Did he know how Hazara shia despise Iran’s silence on Ustad Mazari’s killing? Moulana Domki was attacked so he attacked back to Mengal but Hazara are getting killed everyday but offer Ejaz to visit their graveyard to write a column against them? How many Shia officers are there? Moulana Domki’s influence is much higher than Hazaras? Moulana Domki can call people from his hometown to kill Moulana Mengal but not Hazaras? LeJ alleges Moulana Domki but attacks Hazaras? Pervez Musharaf’s love for Shias is known for banning and arresting Moulana Jan Ali Kazmi from Quetta and then expelling him to UK?
    Do you care for truth Mr. Goebbels?

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  • Wazir
    Aug 4, 2011 - 11:28AM

    Sir! why do we give chance to YAHOODEE and TAGHOOTI forces….laughable isn’t it!!!!???…. to get their nose in our affairs.The state is completely hijacked by the the deep state which is busy in doing every thing nefarious and you know very well and if don’t then you are looking at things from Two-nation Theory perspectives which will take you no where. Unless sense prevail things cannot be put on the track.

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  • MAD
    Aug 4, 2011 - 11:50AM

    @Mirza:

    Well seeing that both Deobandi and Barailvi sects are based in India than i suppose we could say that both are Indian exports. Maybe you prefer to stick to Sufiism and its Dhamaals etc etc . No wait thats an Indian export too. You forget we were all Indians once upon a time.

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  • ali
    Aug 4, 2011 - 3:38PM

    “It was an aggressive show,” a Hazara told me”……You sir are one of the thousand anti Shia, pro Wahabi/Saudi PR agent, a little birdie told me.

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  • Abhi
    Aug 4, 2011 - 4:48PM

    I think author should try to start looking on facts rather than narratives which he seems to be very found off.

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  • Frank
    Aug 4, 2011 - 5:51PM

    MAD

    Sufiism and its Dhamaals etc etc . No
    wait thats an Indian export too. You
    forget we were all Indians once upon a
    time.

    Sufism cam from Persia and Central Asia. Maulana Rumi is the central inspirational figure for Sufism in Pakistan. We were never ‘Indians’. India came into existence in 1947 while Punjab, Sindh etc have existed for centuries.

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  • Mueed
    Aug 4, 2011 - 5:53PM

    “Deobandi terrorists”, showed your biasness at the very beginning!

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  • Frank
    Aug 4, 2011 - 5:53PM

    Arifq

    Ejaz Haider is back! This is the
    Haider is like to read, insightful,
    bold and objective. Thanks

    Speak for yourself. Ejaz Haider’s last two articles were the best I have read by any analyst, Pakistan or otherwise, in many years.

    Recommend

  • Sohail Ahmed
    Aug 4, 2011 - 6:23PM

    Would Pakistan turn into a Rwanda? Two nation theory was the blunder of the millennium, Pushtoons are the martial race and are born to rule Indian subcontinent, Punjabi’s are shrewd and are boot lickers and hungry for power, Sindhi’s are hindus, Balochistan was never part of the subcontinent, Shia’s are not Muslims, according to Deobandi and Bralavi’s and vice versa, Hazara’s are on the payroll of Iran and Afghans economic migrants, oh I forgot the naked and hungry Mohajirs, the fuajis, the khakis, the CIA, the drones, land mafia, loadshedding, inflation, poverty,…………….comon guys, please spare me the agony and lets kill each other and rid the earth of hatred which our country has been sowing here and abroad.

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  • Tanoli
    Aug 4, 2011 - 6:43PM

    TO the writer
    The term u used Deobandi terrorist is wrong please be corrected the shias hazara getting support from shia iran this is allarming and state should cunsulte with them.

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  • Aug 4, 2011 - 8:13PM

    Perception perpetuates reality;
    Narratives induce and peoples subjective reality;
    We (Pakistan: -stanis and the institutions) are relatively new to this battlefront but its extremely encouraging to see people like @ejazhaider making it known that the game of perception plays can be played by any number of actors.
    kudos!

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  • Kanishka
    Aug 4, 2011 - 8:58PM

    @Frank

    “We were never ‘Indians’. India came into existence in 1947 while Punjab, Sindh etc have existed for centuries.

    Sindhu is a Sanskrit Name meaning “Born from the Sea”, Rg Veda mentions it 1000′s of times….. Noi Islamic religious book even mentions the name Punjab and Sindh :)….

    By the way…Good Luck in Carving out a Pakistani Identity :)… We would love to see Pakistanis independent and create their own music that is different from Classical Hindustani music with Ragas…

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  • mind control
    Aug 4, 2011 - 10:17PM

    @Frank

    We were never ‘Indians’. India came into existence in 1947 while Punjab, Sindh etc have existed for centuries.

    Frank just go through this,

    Dr Rahman’s genome shows that Pakistanis are more similar to Europeans than Chinese and Africans, said Assistant Professor Dr Muhammad Kamran Azim who headed the team of the Pak Genome Project. It also shows 200,000 specific sites unique to the Pakistani human and 80,000 sites common with the Indian human.
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/199644/dr-atta-ur-rehman-first-pakistani-to-have-genome-mapped/

    Get your genome mapped and discover your true identity- You are an ex-Hindu from Bharatvarsha. Happy discovery.

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  • Tanoli
    Aug 4, 2011 - 10:18PM

    @ kanishka
    Thats right brother no one in the world tells us persian or turk most of times we
    r indian so no fight please our grant parents were indian national our music will stay same
    culture and most of RAWAJ are same and will stay same pakistan firqa called BARYLVI
    and DEOBANDI these cities r part of india and our united mughal history no one can change that no matter what bolly wood song we like more then indian does i think soRecommend

  • Romm
    Aug 4, 2011 - 11:26PM

    @N
    Don’t be unnecessarily critical towards Mr Haider. He is the one, who wrote open letter to DG ISI after the killing of journalist in Mandi Bahauddin. Now a days, Its not the Fashion to praise Khaki rather its fashion to criticize that. Couple of days ago , I read a fabricated Story of soldiers calling a so-called journalist, ”BLOODY CIVILIAN” on military check point and then there, barrage of negative comments praising the so called writer.Recommend

  • Akber
    Aug 5, 2011 - 12:01AM

    Dear Mr Ejaz.. Can you name one member of the Hazara community who is a terrorist or has EVER been linked to any terror activity….. name one.

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  • Bambayya
    Aug 5, 2011 - 12:01AM

    You better off writing these type of articles … instead of being India centric and Pak army centric … Stick to it … u might prosper as a writer and a thinker …

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  • Cynical
    Aug 5, 2011 - 3:34AM

    Contrary to the widely held belief that Mr. Ejaz Haider is anti Indian, he is actually in love with India.
    His referrence to ‘passage to India’ is the proof that he sees India even when India is not there.Talk about love and umbilical cord.

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  • Frank
    Aug 5, 2011 - 9:45AM

    mind control

    Get your genome mapped and discover
    your true identity- You are an
    ex-Hindu from Bharatvarsha. Happy
    discovery.

    I don’t think you understand genetics very well. All living things share genes. That in itself is no big deal. Humans share 98% of their genes with chimps but we also share genes with bacteria. Pakistanis share some genes with Indians. Is this news? So do Englishmen. Pakistanis share more genes with Indians than Englishmen. This isn’t news either. The genome of one Pakistani man showed that the clear majority of his genes were not shared with Indians. So how did you come to the conclusion his true identity is Hindu? You should also be aware that Hinduism is an ideology not an ethnicity. There are no such things as Hindu genes.

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  • Frank
    Aug 5, 2011 - 12:26PM

    Kanishka

    Sindhu is a Sanskrit Name meaning
    “Born from the Sea”, Rg Veda mentions
    it 1000′s of times….. Noi Islamic
    religious book even mentions the name
    Punjab and Sindh :)…

    So? And why are you Indians so obsessed with religion? Personally, I find it a boring topic.
    .

    By the way…Good Luck in Carving out a
    Pakistani Identity :)… We would love
    to see Pakistanis independent and
    create their own music that is
    different from Classical Hindustani
    music with Ragas…

    We don’t have to carve out an identity. We already have centuries old Punjabi, Pashtun etc identities. The issue is building a Pakistani identity out of these older identities. Thus far we have only been partially successful. We were never Indians. The ‘Indian’ identity was only ‘carved out’ in 1947.

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  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Aug 5, 2011 - 1:21PM

    @Frank, pls. keep writing, it helps our digestive system. by the way do u know a pakistani author by name Mr.Salman Rashid, incidently he writes in ET also. If you by chance come across his books or writings, try reading them as you read quran. But you keep writing please.

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  • AHSAN SHAH
    Aug 5, 2011 - 3:43PM

    While Hazaras are being massacred ruthlessly, they SHOULD stand up to protect themselves. Now even the “Yellow Jornalists” have come forward to protect terrorists.

    Every body knows its NOT IRAN but Saudia, backed by its American masters, aiding terrorists of LJ, Taliban and Sipah e Sahaba to attack Mosques, Markets, Hospitals and Police and Army bases to finish Pakistan, God for bid

    Both Saudia and America are our “Freinds” Mashallah

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  • Deb
    Aug 5, 2011 - 4:03PM

    @Frank

    I don’t agree with you on most issues, but admire your persistence.

    I am pretty much sure if you were born in India and as a hindu (I am assuming you are not), you would have been a top ranking ideologue of the hindu fundamentalists.

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  • One of the Hazaras
    Aug 5, 2011 - 5:12PM

    Bravo Mr Haider! Way to turn and twist the narrative, you have almost made it stand on its head: for a community of over 300000, the invitation of 170 people equals Iranian backing, and the involvement of an ethnically Baloch Mullah in a sectarian attack somehow falls upon the Hazara community. By extension of the above ‘facts’, the community has brought upon themselves the killing of over 500 of its members in recent times!

    The train of your thoughts sounds almost fascinating. At this rate you could conquer Afghanistan and invade India, all by yourself.

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  • Frank
    Aug 5, 2011 - 5:20PM

    Deb,
    How about some counter facts and counter arguments? Isn’t that what these message boards exist for? They would certainly give your Indian point of view more credibility than these snide little comments.

    amogoravarsha,
    Firstly, please see above. Secondly. am I supposed to treat Mr. Salman Rashid as the fount all truth? I pointed out several flaws in his articles which he never addressed.

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  • shehzad
    Aug 5, 2011 - 5:41PM

    Ijaz Haider seems to have missed mentioning Saudi Arabia that is feeding Taliban shura and al-Quaida killers in the province.

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  • mind control
    Aug 5, 2011 - 8:04PM

    @Frank

    We were never ‘Indians’. India came into existence in 1947 while Punjab, Sindh etc have existed for centuries.

    If that be so, what was Al Beruni writing about when he wrote “Kitab fi tahqiq ma li’l-hind”. Which one was it Punjab or Sindh?

    Perhaps what you wanted to say was that there was no Pakistan before 15th August, 1947. Yes, 15th, 14th is another fiction that Pakistanis have been fed.

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  • Tanoli
    Aug 5, 2011 - 8:32PM

    @ frank
    stop it man thats it we were india now we are part of indian subcontienent.

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  • Kashan Abbas
    Aug 5, 2011 - 10:19PM

    Dear everyone and Mr. Ijaz, Please do not confuse the situation more. We, Pakistanis never realized the ground realities to solve a problem. A government is responsible to maintain the law and order in its country. The current lawless state of Queta is the failure of our all departments like Police, FC, Army, Judiciary and so called democratic governments (including all political parties). Whoever is killer must be brought to justice. Unless the killers are caught up and hanged, nothing is going to settle down.
    I request all Pakistanis belonging to all provinces that please come out of the idols of language and province. Please stand for justice. Condemn the killers whoever may be. Hazrat Ali said that be with oppressed and be against oppressors. Our remedy is to strive for justice and removing all evils from ourselves whether it is sectarian or ethnic.

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  • Tanoli
    Aug 5, 2011 - 10:55PM

    @ Kashan abbas
    thanks a lot bro nice thought and quate too

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  • Patriot
    Aug 6, 2011 - 12:01AM

    Mr Haider’s articulate in expressing his thoughts but has little factual backing. Apparently Ejaz Haider hasn’t yet realized that these are not sectarian clashes but rather genocide. It is the gradual terrorizing and massacre of a certain sect and ethnicity. It’s positively one-sided sir. So what exactly is going on? Why are the the CJ, Imran etc quiet? Very obviously these events and their sponsors either have establishment backing and/or indifference at the very least. Why? These LeJ barbarians are strategic assets for the ISI that have fled Afghanistan away from the US/NATO invasion. They are primarily Pushtoons who can’t stand Shia Hazaras due to their so-called Iran connection (hence intolerable for LeJ’s masters……the Saudis) and their Northern Alliance connection. Our Khakis look the other way as these terrorists who are strategic assets provide the purported strategic depth in Afghanistan the chief reason for existence of massive defense spending. This sectarian poison was injected by Zia and his cronies in the early 80s and has now grown into an octopus engulfing practically every part of our beloved land…….even a large portion of our armed forces (remember PNS Mehran). This is an extreme failure of the Executive, Judiciary and of course the State as a whole. If our largest urban centre can descend into the depths of lawlessness and gun running like the wild west, what significance does Quetta have??? Oh yes, Mr Haider’s loyalties too are pretty obvious.

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  • HASAN MEHMOOD
    Aug 6, 2011 - 1:42AM

    @Patriot:
    Well said. I agree 100% with you. However regarding the strategic asset concept , I am willing to give benefit of doubt to our security agencies because they did not have the benefit of hindsight. But now I feel totally flabbergasted and frustrated at the lack of policy review. A pet dog howsoever loyal has to be shot if it gets mad and start biting the family members.I have never heard of any high level discussion regarding the pros and cons of maintaining these assets. And no one including Hameed Gul has spelled out the limit of tolerance regarding these. Apparently even after massacring security forces including attack on GHQ / Pindi mosque/ PNS attack, waging sectarian killings, tearing apart the historically tolerant fabric of society, embarrassing Pakistan in front of closest friends like CHINA / IRAN and so on and so forth, they in the eyes of those that matter have still not crossed any red line. Can any one for GOD’s sake enlighten me as to when that RED LINE will be crossed and the security agencies finally decide to eliminate them ruthlessly and brutally irrespective of their past services if any.

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  • Frank
    Aug 6, 2011 - 11:56AM

    mind control

    If that be so, what was Al Beruni
    writing about when he wrote “Kitab fi
    tahqiq ma li’l-hind”. Which one was it
    Punjab or Sindh?

    Al Berunu was not a Punjabi, Sindhi or Hindustani. He was an Arab. Words like ‘Hind’ and ‘indica’ were only used by foreigners as a designation for the subcontinent, and even then only the northern part excluding south India. In Punjabi culture a sharp distinction was drawn between Punjab and Hind. Hind or Hindustan was the land east of the Yamuna. To give you just one example Shah Muhammed, a great 19th century Punjabi poet, wrote an epic poem chronicling the fall of the Sikh Kingdom. There is a famous line in the poem that makes this distinction between Punjab and Hindustan: Jang Hind Punjab da hon laga, doven badshahi phaujan bharian ne, Shah Mohammad ik sarkar bahjon, phaujan jit ke ant nun harian ne

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  • mind control
    Aug 6, 2011 - 2:42PM

    @Frank

    Words like ‘Hind’ and ‘indica’ were only used by foreigners as a designation for the subcontinent, and even then only the northern part excluding south India.

    You don’t give up, do you?

    Are you sure when Megasthenese wrote ‘Indica’ he was talking about the area excluding Sindh and Punjab? Are you willing to quote some historian other than the great Frank.?

    Now I guess you will be kind enough to tell me which port in ‘northern part excluding south India’ did Ibn Batuta land in. And which port of north India were the sailors of Dutch and British East India Company sailors landing at. Or for that matter which port in north India were the Italians heading for when they accidentally landed in the West Indies and also found the Red Indians.

    And do you see the ridiculous situation you have put yourself in. First, you claim there was no India before 1947 and then admit that actually it existed in the days of Al Beruni too.

    And which century did you say this Shah Mahmood or whatever came in, did he precede Alexander, Ibn Batuta and the Europeans.

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  • Frank
    Aug 6, 2011 - 8:32PM

    mind control

    You don’t give up, do you?

    I am merely a simple soldier for the truth trying to help you see the light.

    Are you sure when Megasthenese wrote
    ‘Indica’ he was talking about the area
    excluding Sindh and Punjab?

    I didn’t say he was. The point was that these terms were used by foriegners to describe a geographic entity not a country. Moreover, that the terms ‘Hind’ and ‘Hindustan’ were used by the natives of South Asia only for the Hindi belt.
    I know Indian Bengalis who to this day use the term ‘Hindustani’ for Hindi speakers only. To help you along, people have been talking about ‘Africa’ for centuries. But there is no such thing as an African nation or country. And Africans have not, until modern times, used this term for themselves.

    And which century did you say this
    Shah Mahmood or whatever came in, did
    he precede Alexander, Ibn Batuta and
    the Europeans.

    Shah Mohammed was a great poet and he was the voice of Punjabis not of Greek, Arab or European invaders. If you can’t speak Punjabi get the line translated. It settles the matter as far as I’m concerned, though I can give you many more examples from the canon of Punjabi literature where our Punjabi nation’s great poets drew a distinction between Hindustan and Punjab.

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  • Ali Asghar
    Aug 10, 2011 - 12:28PM

    Few things Ejaz mentioned is very true like Iran involved in activities such as Cake and Shab-e-barath etc. Lets analyze Iran’s involvement here… is this going to be against Pak?…..I think no… Iran is trying to protect herself from future threats…expected USA arrival in Baluchistan and current activities of USA in region.( It ends with favor of Pak and Iran, I don’t know when authorities will understand it)
    Ejaz mentioned Dewbandi Mulla killing in Pashin by Domki…..it clearly shows that his knowledge in Quetta surrounding is partial… most of the facts he mentioned is not of his own knowledge but copy paste from others minds. Mentioning Domki’s involvement in killings he has expressed his intention to put dispute between Dewbandi and Shia sect…which goes to the favor of those who are paying Ejaz.
    One thing which makes me surprise is that Ejaz remembers to mention the facts about Iran and about killing of unclaimed murder of Dewbandi Mulla but he forgets to give details of LeJ involvement of killing more then 500 Hazaras which is that secret agencies are trying to kill through LeJ and push Hazaras to take arms against the Baloch Freedom Fighters in order to save Pak from another partition. But I don’t blame Ejaz on this…. he is not in such a position to write about it…..plus not mentioning this fact he is doing favor to Pak.
    AA

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  • imran ali
    Aug 13, 2011 - 1:45AM

    @Tanoli:
    my dear how many Deobandis have been killed here in Quetta?? do u have any info??

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  • Hasan Mehmood
    Aug 13, 2011 - 10:31AM

    @imran ali:

    {my dear how many Deobandis have been killed here in Quetta?? do u have any info??}
    Why don’t you volunteer the information regarding indiscriminate killings as well as target killings of Deobandis similar to the Hazaras and duly acknowledged by them?
    For GOD’s sake you dont have to defend these self confessed terrorists. They are barbarians pure and simple and no Islamic scholar of any sect has ever condoned or defended them.It is an irony of fate that even their supporter and financial backer SAUDI ARABIA does not allow this level of sectarian terrorism in their country.

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  • redsnapper
    Sep 2, 2011 - 2:43PM

    Good article and I agree with most of it. But would like you to explain one point in one of your future articles:

    The good, “thinking” General Javed Zia was DG Rangers Sindh on May 12, 2007. On that day, the entire Rangers in Karachi were ordered to withdraw and be a spectator when the killings went on. I wonder what he was “thinking” at that time.

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  • Hasan Mehmood
    Sep 2, 2011 - 7:26PM

    @redsnapper:

    “Good article and I agree with most of it.”
    So you agree with Author’s lumping of the victim and aggressor together (Hazara’s vs the LJ types)? a factual error which has been so hotly contested by me and so many others on this post. Or maybe you consider that a minor inconsistency which does not effect the overall good article (in your view)

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  • Danial
    Sep 5, 2011 - 3:23AM

    We the hazara never carried terrorist act in Pakistan. We remained sincere to this land and will be.
    Therefore we should not be blamed and a word of negative said about us as we are peace lovers.
    Todays most hazaras dont like their clerics because of their involvement in Al-quds rally.

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  • MAD
    Sep 5, 2011 - 9:54AM

    @Frank:

    Ever heard of Hindustan Frank. I believe SIndh and Punjab were both part of it.

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