An Indian Border Security Force (BSF) soldier patrols along the border fence at an outpost along the India-Pakistan border in Suchit-Garh, 36 kms southwest of Jammu on January 10, 2013. PHOTO: AFP
"Pakistan Army soldier, Havildar Mohyuddin, embraced shahadat (martyrdom) due to unprovoked firing by Indian troops at Hotspring sector in Battal at 2:40pm today," the military said in a text message to reporters.
The two countries have largely observed ceasefire along the LoC in the last ten years and have also taken steps to normalise relations. Kashmir, one of the oldest UN-recognised unresolved disputes, however, remains the underlying cause of tensions between the two South Asian nuclear powers.
On January 8, India claimed that firing across the LoC by Pakistani soldiers had killed two of its troops, with the spokesman for the Indian Army’s Northern Control stating this was a violation of the ceasefire agreed on by the two sides.
Pakistan has denied being involved in any incident of unprovoked firing, but cites an incident on January 6, when it says Indian troops attacked a base and killed one of its soldiers. In turn, India denies this and said its positions had been bombarded for five hours by Pakistan.
The United Nations Wednesday has on India and Pakistan to respect the ceasefire in the Kashmir.
COMMENTS (92)
Comments are moderated and generally will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive.
For more information, please see our Comments FAQ
1732355030-0/BeFunk_§_]__-(41)1732355030-0.jpg "pti arming youth force activists and afghan nationals punjab information minister alleges")
1732340798-0/BeFunk_§_]__-(35)1732340798-0.jpg "bushra bibi did not name saudi arabia in remarks about medina visit pti s raoof hasan")
1728020241-0/Express-Tribune-Web-(12)1728020241-0-270x192.webp "pti will break through any barriers to reach d chowk pti secretary information")
@Asad: spot on. perfect timing. uncanny
@Khan of Cape Town: "Let’s have a new beginning." History is a continuum and leaves its imprint on those who live it. You cannot turn the page because this book has only one page! Think!
@lionheart: So can a Pakistani say about INDIA too. Lets not take the flesh out of our cheeks by slapping each other. There is no end to the insanity. Me and you will not breathe sooner, but our children and grand grand children will feel the brunt.
@Yoghurt lover: If you want to go into history, then go a little deeper, Mr. Lover. Who helped break Pakistan in 1971? Who occupied Kashmir, despite all UN resolutions? Honest inquiry over Samjhota express? What was the result of that inquiry except striping of an Army officer? Lets not play this blame game. I appreciate India's tolerance over Mumbai. You should appreciate Pakistan's over such issues. Lets not go into history. Let's have a new beginning.
Indians now we have been mentally prepared to answer you messages receiving from you on LoC and please stop such these types of Jackal's and cowardice activities on LoC and show us your real inner war's abilities without demonstrating highlights of your coward actions on LoC and never imagine that now Pakistan armed forces and Pakistan's current military conditions are like 1971......
Much the best,excellent and august practical demonstration of "Aman ki Aasha" and " bullets' gift" from the Pakistani PPP's leaders' declared/announced the Most Favorite Nation India to Pakistan....
Lets fight a war. A total war. Lets see who wins and who gets exterminated. That is the only solution.
Pakistan beheaded our Indian soldiers brutally.
Now,that a Pakistan soldier has died, will any Pakistani condemn the murder of the Indian soldier ?
No, because most people in both countries have double standards.
I openly want to criticize the killing of the soldiers of both nations.
There will be no end to this killings sadly
is it true
All - there is no reason for India to fire on Pakistani troops. India is a status quo power - all it wants is that the current boundaries stay defined as is. It does not want to engage the Pakistani army for any reason.
Now on the other had, Pakistani Army does support and send Insurgents (Kashmiri freedom fighters) across to India. Musharraf himself has candidly admitted to this fact.
When they send these guys to Indian Kashmir, they try and create a diversion by firing on Indian positions. The insurgents then enter India under the cover of this fire.
Knowing this, guess what is the likely cause of the current issue.
@O2:
Can't get any stupider than this ! Of course, you don't cry, because this soldier is a total stranger for you. Did you check with the near and dear ones of the dead soldier? Do you think they feel the same way you do? Maybe he has a wife and young children who are eagerly waiting for their dad's return or he is the only son of an elderly couple. These dead soldiers are just a name for you all and it is disgusting to see the tragedy on either side being used as an excuse to puff up one's puny chests.
Finally first time seeing something sensible in Indian media. Food for thought for Indians also, offcourse for Indians it is ALWAYS us who lives in the state of denial. We do but not always.
The Last Word: Indian media's response to soldiers' killing jingoistic: http://ibnlive.in.com/cnnibnvideos/top-us/315047.html
A couple of days ago when there was news of 2 Indian soldiers being killed, I was shocked. After a bit of digging, I found out that a Pakistani soldier was killed on Sunday on account of exchange of fire. There were reports of mutilation of the deceased Indian soldiers, and a possible "revenge" angle to the story. From shock my emotion transformed into anger, but I have brought myself to a level where I din't convert the anger to hate. Too often people start hating entities that are way too abstract. Why should I hate 'Pakistan', when people who are in tribal regions or even regular middle class people living in Karachi or some other city have no bearing on anything that happens at LoC let alone be held responsible in any way. Therefore I would urge people to reason out in a similar manner on the other side. Issues that cause such incidents need to be carefully investigated and studied - a very difficult task because of decades of mistrust and breeding of hatred across the board (esp. in military establishments). For starters, persons found guilty of violating ceasefire should be punished on both sides in order to discourage such acts. India has 1.2 billion people, and believe me, more than half don't need any help from Pakistan to make their lives anymore miserable. I'm sure the same applies conversely. So please stop with the crappy "we will exterminate you" rhetoric on both sides. A lot of work remains in India-Pakistan relation, but it has to start with improving each of our own standards of living, making our own societies better places to live in, maybe then we'd stop venting our frustration abroad.
@DilliNiwasi: and we are also seeing the success of those seperation movements running inside India to break India.
Much can be said about the pak army, but the current crises is obviously the fault of the indian army! Even indian newspapers seems to have reported 'that the recent killings were provoked by the indian army!'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20974194
@hamza khan
You are hilarious. Pakistan army has not fooled its own people? Either you are living in some cuckoo land or you are one of family members of Pak army.
@Hammad Mian: We now understand that you understand only iron. After all we see what is going on inside Pakistan.
@Asad: What came out of all joint investigations ever carried out in Pakistan? Only pressure works for Pakistan.
@GrimmJow: Nation always stands by; army always lets down!
@Yoghurt lover: or from a burst of power from his compatriot's rifle !!!
@Yoghurt lover:
right because your army has not fooled its own people by encountering its soldiers in kashmir to earn gallantry awards, has not committed atrocities inside its own 'territory' for 60 years by brutalizing an innocent people who only ask for you to follow UN security resolutions, has not tried to cover up its failings in kargil by committing corruption with the bodies of soldiers by ordering too many coffins (a classic btw). keep your stupidity to yourself.
Last time when the news was about two indian soldiers killed some of you were celebrating , some of you who read comments on indian newspaper were asking why indians hate you people so much . Now I can see indians are celebrating and you people are hate comments on this page.One comment which particularly attracted me may be because of larger font is "These Indians cowards and morons do not deserve of Aman Ki Aasha. They should be treated with iron hands". Which iron hands are you talking about , do you think pakistan will ever win a cross fight against india . Just look at the past you will find our performance went on better war by war . Even then if you think you can mess with india its not because you are brave its just because you are not intelligent enough to see how weak you are
@O2
That is an unfortunate point of view. You may cherish death, but we in India will continue to mourn and regret the deaths (Necessary or otherwise). There is no glory in death. There is only suffering for the families involved.
@Zeeshan Ashraf "how could we believe that u r not an indian trying to misguide people?"
I am an Indian. When did I say I am not?
@irfan: "Drunken army cannot fight with men who want to be shaheed at any cost"
Please read history and find out who defends their land and who attacks and surrenders or declares unilateral ceasefire.
@Hammad Mian ,I am really afraid after reading your message..mai tho darr gaya..
@Yoghurt lover: how could we believe that u r not an indian trying to misguide people? How could we not believe that you are among one of those who repeatedly and very outspokenly denies the 2 nation theory and finally how could we believe that u r patriot? India doesn't deserve an6 sympathy and one can't simply trust her. And for u who pointed finger at pakistan 's army role in countering external threats, this nation knows hypocrites among themselves. So u better not spend ur energies here because you won't get anything out of it. LONG LIVE PAKISTAN. LONG LIVE PAK ARMY ()ARMY OF ISLAM)
@gp65.: don't cry little one :)
@Arijit Sharma...I think you meant "Ajmal Kasab"
@Khan of Cape Town..have not you heard what Netaji said"eet ka zabab pathar"
@Khan of Cape Town: No dear...it was Subhash Chandra Bose....
@Khan of Cape Town: "...But, how can a common pakistani swallow the pill that India do not let Saeed Ajmal his well deserved Man of the Match award. ..."
What makes you think we find that pill any easier to swallow ? It is a poison pill for us - there is no value in a "fixed" award. It is shameful.
@Khan of Cape Town:
Gandhi taught us to love an enemy in order to be non-violent. If one is not yet advanced spiritually to be able to love an enemy, it's better to give a violent reply rather than be a meek escapist putting-up a facade of non-violence. Actually, what he taught was from Gita. Better to perform one's duty the best way possible and accept the consequences in a responsible manner rather than shy away from one's duty and hide behind excuses.
@ Khan of Cape Town
this is problem between India and Pakistan. You have no business here. You are a S.African.
I think provocations are being done equally by both sides. The only differences is that Pakistanis dont start crying like babies when their soldiers are killed, rather they reply Indians in a ruthless way (for example Pakistani SSG dressed in black beheaded two Indian soldiers yesterday).
I was following the news on Indian media & they were making an issue out of that like some very petty weak nation attack on some very great civilised rich state of the world. Indians cry like babies when smt happened to them and ask justifications and when Pak asks them to involve UN for investigating this incident they just act in silence. Rather they even refer Kashmire as integral part of India. Such a shameful nation.
But I would also add, Pakistan Army is more more corroupt and involved in shameful activites. Everybody knows that Pak Army starts firing to provide cover to what they call Mujahideen (I call them terrorists merceneries). Being Pakistani we should not close our eyes from the fact that we are still doing incursions in Kashmire. What we did in Mumbai is also shameful to humanity! No CIA, Mosaad was involved in that we should grow up and accept the fact, atleast we have the right to ask from our Army that what they are doing. Army is not God afterall !
@Khan of Cape Town What is utmost required is to be rational, like in the case of army conflict it looks to be probably the attack was indeed done by India. depending upon the knowledge of situation , general people(Indian) may or may not think India was right in it. But there few heads in India would take a rational stand, that I am promising you.
Now take the other case, about the Man of the Match, the exact point I want to make is Indians here do not let go the first attempt, in calling a wrong a wrong atleast in something like cricket. Patriotism will not provide much challenge to rationality here. The board , the commentators would have decided that but that does not mean that the indian cricket fans accept that Ajmal deserved it better.
We should learn to differentiate the cases. As in one case the facts as bare as can be are in front of us and none can stop us in forming opinion. the selectors for MoM dint exclusively see any part of play which we missed, hence we will not be misled.
Now when it comes thinigs like army operations, we can only believe that we are being told the ruth, and the best way to find a way out will be think from the opinion of other party. Now with Ms Khar saying let us have a third party investigation, i dint find that my patriotism need to put a logical inference at backseat.
All I want to say is, let us not think everything is wrong with each other, and show that optimism of finding more compelling reason of sustained mutual peach for priorities i listed in my first comment.
This is just a preparation of a new Jihad in Kashmir. All this sounds similar to what happened in late eighties at the conclusion of Afghan jihad. TTP in their "truce" offer have already hinted to "re-focus" on India rather than Afghanistan. I hope that the same mistake of 're-employing' jihadis in Kashmir is not repeated this time.
@O2: "Indians, don’t you cry again when we get more of your soldiers. we don’t cry when our soldiers die, nothing bigger than a martyrdom,"
Soldiers dying in a war zone is as you rightly said - martyrdom. Beheading soldiers and taking their head back as a trophy is ghastly and not something that any professional army would do. When Pakistan refused to take back their dead soldiers in Kargill because at that time it was denying being involved in Kargill, India gave them a proper burial. It did not respect the dead soldiers bysevering their heads.
@GrimmJow: "@What – the nation always stood with Pak army, same as in 1971, Kargil etc…"
As if the nation(Pakistan people) had a choice. Pakistan army has always been the main power in Pakistan and that's not by people's choice.
These Indians cowards and morons do not deserve of Aman Ki Aasha. They should be treated with iron hands.
@ExPakArmy: "Each shell could pay for teacher for year."
Since you are ex pak army and hold such views, the ISI will be paying you a visit. :-)
@Khan of Cape Town:
Bringing Gandhi into this conversation is wrong. His ideas of non violence were pertaining to civil liberties and non cooperation with the British government. They have no place in the event of External aggression. What...You think India is so stupid to follow Gandhi's "turning the other cheek" principal with Pakistan!.
@Khan of Cape Town who writes "Head for Head and Eye for Eye, is this what Mr Gandhi taught you?"
Well trust me, I have a lot of sympathy for the foot soldiers of any country. Because these are poor unfortunate people who couldn't build a career in a cushy job. Sudhakar or Mohyuddin do not join army out of patriotism. They join out of helplessness.
But if you are questioning India's tolerance, then you are not introspecting.
How would a country have reacted after an incidence like 26/11?
Do you think Pakistan would have conducted an honest inquiry into Malegaon blasts/Samjhauta blast arrested it's own serving army officer?
Don't question our tolerance. if anything you need to question the honesty of your own army.
By the way, India today is not Gandhi's India. Today's India is mired in corruption, dishonesty, violence and cheap material pursuit.
Classical diversion tactics by india news about the rape case has been in the lime light for a long time they want to create some diversion.
@India: Head for Head and Eye for Eye, is this what Mr Gandhi taught you?
@Abhishek Singh: You are a sane voice Mr. Singh. I like your optimism. But, how can a common pakistani swallow the pill that India do not let Saeed Ajmal his well deserved Man of the Match award. Then India allegedly kills one soldier on LoC (some India papers are also quoting this news) and expect Pakistan army will not retaliate. How will Peace prevail, when an unbiased man sees injustice in such minor to major situations? War mongering has already initiated on both sides. But we want sane voices like you to prevail.
@Xulfi: Not really if you go back a day or two an Pakistani soldier was killed first.
Time to wake up Indians... How many illegal weapons we have in this country, easily more than 600000...
Let the Indian fox make mistake of attacking us this time they will vanish.Indians should come to their senses before it is too late.Poverty,injustice,corruption has already ruined these blood suckers.Drunken army cannot fight with men who want to be shaheed at any cost.PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.
On 2nd thoughts - I think he was probably killed by a militant attack like someone has already mentioned above. These sort of incidents happen on a daily basis in Pakistan, lets not add fuel to the fire.
Its their internal matter...
@What - the nation always stood with Pak army, same as in 1971, Kargil etc...
India has shown enough restraint to cross-border terrorism unleashed by Pakistan for the past four decades and though this policy has proved to be self-destructive for Pakistan but the same has still not abandoned by it. India has so far taken defensive measures by erecting barbed wire along LoC and put check posts to cover the gaps but it is quite impossible to completely stop the terrorists inflirtation which is facilitated by Pak army/rangers by firing on Indian positions to provide cover to the militants in crossing the LoC. India might resort in future take offensive posture and measures of attacking and destroying the Pak border out-posts who provide cover to militants which is fully justified keeping in view of Pakistan not keeping its commitments made several times in the past not to indulge in cross-border terrorism.
as long as the beheaded head of our soldier is not returned with honor THIS DEATHS WILL CONTINUE. pakistanis please pray that the head is returned because pakistan is not ready for a war
Inspite of all the bad feelings many of you have about India, and at the risk giving you all a wrong impression , that Indians love their country and respect their armymen any less, I should ask you to focus your energy to be self sufficient in all areas that needs a country's focus for the real well being of its people.
India is doing so, it is solving its problems, raising taxes (to increase social welfare spending), decreasing subsidies for those who do not deserve, trying to stop the leakages in financial misgovernance.
And all along, believing in politics of realism. It has stopped long back aligning with any country for any misplaced priority, countries which can raise a war with it in future.
It does not feel bad to me atleast if China is too big a power for us to match currently, but we would not side with US for it at any cost. Not that China threat (we have lost a war them, hence a condition similar for you all who see India threat) is not denied, but the first priority remains to have our place under as an independent thinking country, taking each action basis the real responsibility it has for its people.
You can read last two para of the comment in the context of India's relationship with Israel, Iran, UK, Russia and also Srilanka, Maldives, Bangladesh(where we are not panicking with current state of relations which is a challenge)
@O2
nothing bigger than a martyrdom
Yeah right! tell that to 90,000 of your soldiers who surrendered, setting a guiness record
This is disgusting! There is little coverage of this incidence in Pakistan media as they are covering the political drone attack of Altaf. Had it occurred to the Indian side, their media would have totally different approach and until now they would have resorted to attack Pakistan and similar stuff.
Pakistan should give respond with full power
Pak Army We are with you and will be always, Go and give them the answer, Paksitan Zindabad
I am tuning in to Jeo TV too see their take on this latest aman ki asha rounds piercing our soldiers. Will they add a Bollywood number to it?
@Ali: "This is what India is doing and insulting out integrity" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ i think your sovereignty is a joke. Heard of drones?
“Pakistan Army soldier, Havildar Mohyuddin, embraced shahadat (martyrdom) due to unprovoked firing by Indian troops at Hotspring sector in Battal at 2:40pm today,” +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Was he also beheaded?
Our country needs peace for the sake of the future our country. Please stop blabbering you hotheads you have no idea how much a war costs the economy. Each shell could pay for teacher for year.
@Elhaan Khan:
Fully agree with you.
@Yoghurt lover:
Well said Sir. I shall wait for some smart and brave man from among us to answer your questions.
@Yoghurt lover: Right....
As if feeding phenyle to one cricketer and snatching man of the match from two cricketers wasnt enough for you indians... this is low even for their standards
@Yoghurt lover: Oh please believe us mr yoghurt lover. Please pleeeeassseee pretty pleaseeeee. Duhhhh. End all contacts with these indians. They dont deserve it, backstabbers.
@Elhaan Khan
Go back to india.
@Yoghurt lover: Don't believe it... it's not for you to believe
Now that our cricket team is back after heaping tons of embarrassment on the world champions, indians are avenging the loss this way.
By the way Rajputana rifles,whose soldiers were killed and were behaded by Pakistani soldiers has woved to kill atleast 10 Pakistani soldiers.
So It's the beggining only.
@Elhaan Khan: Just shut up. I am sick and tired of the people like you who think that we are Devils and others are angels.
@Yoghurt lover: We dont care what you think because fact will remain fact. Pakistan also offer for joint investigation with cordination with UN but coward Indian Army and government refuse this offer as they know the bitter truth.
@Yoghurt lover: we don't believe in you soap news, you guys even back away from UN investigating the incident on LoC, so better shut up & whine in your own country if you guys can't stand the truth!
@What: "Pak Army, whatever decision you make " +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ How Pavlovian. Thats exactly what the Army wants you to say and forgive its so many transgressions.
We deny such allegation. It is totally baseless.
No problem, we are busy in Political drone attacks and Long marches :(
Another Kargil like misadavdure is coming from Rawalpindi to derail the civilian govt efforts for peace with India.
How do we believe that Havildar Mohyuddin (RIP) was not killed by a militant attack?
How can we believe an army which declared that it was winning even on the night of 15th December 1971?
How can we believe an army which sent soldiers as mujahideen in Kargil and then when caught with its pants down by the world, refused to even accept the bodies of poor unfortunate soldiers?
How can we believe an army which protected Osama all along and took 2 days to even come up with an official statement when he got killed?
Pakistan army should stop toying with the lives of its soldiers. These soldiers (like everywhere in the world) are not well educated and try to earn an honest living by toiling in the army.
Sane people from both sides should make every effort to stop this madness.When we see the glimmer of hope that the peace between two nations would be a reality,warped minds from both sides want to derail the process.Let us not fall in to their game plan.
First they violate the ceasefire and kill our soldiers, then they stage murders of their own soldiers to implicate Pakistan which fell flat on it's face... now unable to face embarrassment they kill a Pakistani soldier ??? I think it's time Pakistan gives up on the idea of peace with these people
Pak Army, whatever decision you make regarding this continous aggression from india, remember that the nation stands with you.
Sad thing is many people will still criticise pakistan army for i dont know what!!
Petty indian mentality.
This is what India is doing and insulting out integrity. and we are requesting them to Play cricket and hold our own home series in India.
War is coming !
Indians, don't you cry again when we get more of your soldiers. we don't cry when our soldiers die, nothing bigger than a martyrdom, Pakistan Zindabad!!!
Guys ever heard of reporting in a chronological order. While tracing the history of this latest incident you start by mentioning 2 indian soldiers were killed on 8th Jan followed by the incident on 6th Jan which kicked of this storm.
These indians don't deserve Aman ki Asha one bit! We're simply wasting our time pursuing a dream never to be fulfilled...