Don’t act surprised

Brilliant article GeorgeRecommend

“we are a barbaric nation” – Yes your nation – the English are! The British were responsible for the bloodshed and choas at partition. Get your facts straight – read Shameful Flight and parting Kicks. Dont just rely on your simplistic views on this country. Dont speak for “us” – you have barely been in Pakistan for a few years George so let’s us not have your patronising condescension. I am sick of foreigners telling us what we are and what we are not. We know its a heinous crime.Recommend

“Pakistan has never been a pure, peaceful Islamic state. And it never will be

Has any Islamic state been pure and peaceful, other than those mentioned in the Arabian Nights?Recommend

George, nice article but I find it hard to digest when coming from someone who arrived in Pakistan a few years ago. I mean no disrespect to you or your journalistic abilities but I hope you understand what I mean. This would be similar to someone migrating to the US and after a couple of years referring to himself as a Yankee and an expert on American history and way of life.
I agree with you that this nation was ‘forged during a bloody partition’ but the Hindus, Muslims, and the British were all equally responsible for the bloodshed. We may have been violent in the past (and in the present too) but there are also hundreds of examples of compassion and mercy exhibited by us. Also, it may be easy for you to label Pakistan as “not the land of the pure” but you cannot relate to the horrors faced by the ancestors at the hands of the British Raj when creating this nation. Let us not forget the gruesome and inhumane violence inflicted by the British.Recommend

Well said.Recommend

Didn’t expect this from you George, outright Pakistan bashing, hatred for the existence of the country. Right now we are all bleeding, and looking for answers, and people do get answers when they look for them. We are hurting badly for these two boys – for this country and for our own mistakes. Yet out of all this brutality, the sacrifice of these innocent lives and many other such cases, we can reflect and take corrective measures as a society, as a nation, as a people. There is hope, there is chance. We can learn what we did wrong, correct it and try to make a better country out of this. Would you not support it. We should send a message of peace to all humanity, irrespective of cast, creed, religion. We should build a memorial in the city of Sialkot, of love, peace, the sacrifice of these two innocent boys. We should try to win the hearts of the people by reaching out to them with our intellect, our resources. Kindness, love and sharing change hearts, societies, nations. Let’ try to do that first before we condemn this nation completely.Recommend

Indeed a slap on our so called societal values which have become highly violent sue to constant influx from religious clergy. When we make brutality as an everyday happening, it will go unnoticed and this is what the rational and liberal minds need to unite against. The very crumbling fabric of our society can only be rescued by liberal values.Recommend

Truth to its core..very rightly saidRecommend

Sad and true..the cameras are capturing these moments only now. But it has always been thus…Recommend

Sad but true.Recommend

We? Our Nation? Waste of space on Tribune… George, dont mean to be rude to you but expect you not to be rude to millions of people by saying “We are, and have always been, a barbaric, degenerate nation revelling in bloodlust” . . . you have NO right to say this when you’ve been here for nothing beyond a mere few years…Recommend

My GOD, you are so true about as to how you paint us. This explanation couldn’t be any fairer than this. We really are a nation who enjoys entertainment; be it a car crash on a road, a fight, a biker having an argument with a cop over a traffic violation. Unimaginably you would witness people actually pulling over and peeking into what’s going on. Just today before Iftar I witnessed a minute accident on a road, a young boy not seemingly having any driving permit came out and slapped the bike he had hit into and eventually a fight popped out of the scene. Nobody came near to try and calm the scene down, instead there were people again having their cellphones in hands making videos of the great action stunt there. Had we been a nation, people would have done something about the lynching of the youthsRecommend

Wicked article George.Recommend

As much as I am appalled at the barbaric murders in Ahmadi mosques and Sialkot, I cant but express my disagreement at the authors intent to make us all seem like lunatics. Yes, it was a horrible murder, but why should a nation of 180 million feel like murderers? After all, Suni and Shia mosques have been bombed, not just the Ahmadis. We are ALL being held hostage by a very minute but violent section of our society.

No one I know supported the Sialkot murderers. Most of us are reasonable, moderate people, and feel scared at the turn our country is taking socially and economically, and the virtual hijacking of our minds by a small group of frustrated sociopaths and terrorists. As a nation, we have never elected Mullahs. That is because we know the direction they might take. Instead, we have alway voted for democracy, and have always been humiliated by our elected leaders. So, where does the mistake lie? We all condemn the murderers, and the author reserves no right to humiliate us for someone els’s sins! This has got to stop, otherwise, pretty soon, you will start ranting about Pakistanis being responsible for the cold blooded murders of the Tootsi and HuTu tribes!Recommend

George, i completely agree with your article. we should all hang our heads in shame.Recommend

George! I share 1000% your point of view that our whole nation is rotten and blood thirsty like the Roman era crowd who loved to watch bloody fights of gladiators or burning Christian alive on the cross or throwing them in front of hungry beasts. This was part of entertainment and now what the crow did by clubbing the two innocent brothers to death also reflects the deep routed violence and intolerance we exercise to each other worse than animals.
And still we people of Pakistan want recognition among the civilized world??? What a shame for our country and its people.Recommend

Some parts of the article are valid (re: minority killings etc) but the rest sounds like an emotional rant. The article makes it sound as if Pakistani genetic make up has an active violence gene. In fact, I would make the case, that all human beings have that propensity for extreme violence which will exhibit itself in certain circumstances. In Pakistan, the lack of rule of law, the fact that the average Pakistani does not expect to get justice, and the fact that mob violence has historically not been prosecuted in Pakistan created those circumstances which resulted in the killings in Sialkot. Which is why it is so important that we prosecute the perpetrators of this heinous incident.Recommend

It makes me sick when I witness two young man being beaten to death in front of crowd. I sincerely hope that the men who were clearly visible in the footage should be apprehended and brought to justice. So should the police officer who is seen in the footage witnessing this barbaric act.

In the end I would like to say that George has written a nice article.
Well done George.Recommend

The dominant archetypes in our society subvert the rule of law, and shifts power to the individual. The stereotype put forward in movies, dramas and the stage, frame the individual as the victim, with the whole monolith of the state acting against him. Everyone is corrupt, while the individual gains social esteem by bearing down his own form of justice. In a society, where an eye for an eye has its own meaning, its no surprise that we crave blood.Recommend

the reason ppl have gone into overdrive in condemning this event is that hope still survives… except in your article…

“without hope we have nothing”

give us something to celebrate georgeRecommend

Ignorant and arrogant clerics have led the people on the wrong path. These cleric were against the creation of Pakistan and now refuse to condemn suicide bombings. They openly label Ahmadis as wajib-ul-qatil and many others. They believe in stoning to death adulterers, a punishment not mentioned in the Quran.Recommend

Kashif,

People like u r your nations biggest down fall, every one else is responsible for all your nations short comings, It was probably the British that asked the shameless crowd to watch the atrocity without so much of a voice in protest, that crowd was a very good representation of your nation, no one needs to read to come to the conclusion that a nation of shameless people watched these children being victimized, why are you so concerned about Georges views as a human being, yet your nation has no shame in begging the foreignors for charity, I recall a request for restructuring of 10 Billion dollars of Aid. Tomorrow it could be your mother or daughter that gets victimized, I would like to see your reaction to voices of reason at that point.

An intellectual is able to entertain thoughts and criticisms from any person without consideration of his religion or nationality. If the British were such evil doers, why then did you choose to go to great lengths in trying to excel in their mother tounge, you probably gloat about your command of the English language.

By attacking people for their ideas you have aptly proven Georges point that you are a nation of intolerant hypocrites….Recommend

bitter but true,excellent piece.Recommend

Pakistan is going where…? In a barbaric, pre-historic arena. And it may be their destiny due to Mollaism.Recommend

I appreciate the sincerity with which you have written this article, George. You truly feel part of the Pakaistani nation, and as such feel it your responsibility to honestly critique the wrongs of society. You are not the politically correct foreigner-turned-Pakistani who turns away from some of the more shameful facets of this society. You are a brother.Recommend

I am a recently graduated Pakistani medical doctor in Bahrain, and have always been strongly agnostic/humanist/secular. I have not been able to live with myself after seeing video shots of what those 2 young boys, in the prime of their youth, had to face until they died. Honestly, if I may ask all Pakistani readers here, can’t you see the obvious, the killing is nothing but confirmation that our culture is based on village feudal culture, where we follow the line set by the landlord, and beat and kill whoever the landlord wants dead, no questions asked.
Everyone, I mean, everyone, including myself, deserve to commit suicide at the graves of those 2 poor young boys.As I am abroad, can I just ask all, repeat, all Pakistanis, to stop pretending that you and your culture is better than everyone else, it is not, and I won’t hesitate to pass urine on our culture and way of life everyday until I die.
Nothing will bring those 2 boys home alive to their mother’s arms. I have downloaded Geo TV’s Crisis Cell and Dr Shahid Masood’s coverage of the Sialkot massacre. After hearing,seeing and feeling the grief of the boys’ family, I really don’t know how we will all live as if nothing ever happened.
I want to ask Pakistanis that if something cruel and horrible like this can happen in Sialkot, I wonder what else must go on in the feudal rural farms and villages, far away from cameras and prying eyes.
Losing one son for any family is bad enough, but losing 2 sons to a mad mob, for no reason other than being at the wrong place, and at the wrong time, I just cannot imagine. I also have 2 brothers, of 21 and 15 years of age. Someone amongst the crowd watching the brothers being bashed again and again, must have had brothers of their own. Why did they not come forward to stop the violence and save the 2 brothers?
Can I ask my fellow Pakistanis, if the criminals were hitting and kicking copies of the Holy Quran instead of the 2 brothers, would the crowd have been so silent?
Every person in the crowd was a Muslim, but none were even men to step forward and stop what was clearly wrong.Recommend

“Pakistan has never been a pure, peaceful Islamic state. And it never will be.”

Agree with the first statement, but not with the second. Our history is awash with bloodshed and barbarism. And we enjoy it. Any excuse is a reason to shed blood. a child is born? Ziba a goat, shed some blood. a boy is born? Two goats! In mourning? Sacrifice some animals to make yourself feel better. The islamic world sheds blood at every occassion the way the first world drinks alcohol (when merry or drowning their sorrows).

So no, the lynching is not surprising.

However, I do still have hope that things will change. The shock, outrage, and (hopefully) ultimate justice will slowly turn the tide against barbarity. Maybe I’m an eternal optimist, maybe I’m stupid, but I still have hope.Recommend

I think a lot of people will think “hey, this is a gora guy talking to us about Pakistan, what does HE know??” but really you hit the nail on the head. What a metaphor, Lord of the Rings. Never thought of it that way but that is spot on. Well, then, if it is Lord of the Rings, what is the future of Pakistan? I don’t think democracy will work until we can educate the people. Until then, martial law? What choice do we have? It is sometimes hard to believe how Pakistan survives amongst corruption, bureaucracy and sheer ignorance. All I have is prayers for my beloved country, now something unrecognizable from my childhood.Recommend

I wish I could disagree but I can’t turn myself from facing this reality. I mentioned in on of my responses, We have never been an Islamic state simply because we do not follow Islamic Laws, so to say we are Islamic Republic is an abosulute False. We need a leader like Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh), who with his teachings can change our heart, mind and soul. I hope we as a nation can realize now but this nation is busy doing some important work, this nation is SLEEPING, do not wake them.

May Allah (swt) bless us and guide us to the right path.Recommend

An Eye opener????
Don’t you guys think we should change??? Stop hating, stop thinking like we are the only saviors of ISLAM in the world…
Have the courage to stop the wrong or atleast criticize it… Discourage the Islamic extremism and the social injustice starting from our home… in our offices in our shops…
sighhhhhhh.. when will we grow up … very very sad. I am ashamedRecommend

George, very well said. I think we should give a ‘Gandasa’ to all new Pakistanis in their citizenship ceremony. Did you get one?Recommend

“One just has to read eyewitness accounts of the riots, the train butchery, the brutal rapes and slaughter of that period to get a feel of the heady, almost orgasmic, delight that the perpetrators of these crimes revelled in…”

Yes, that’s true. But is it very different from the American Indians, the Holocaust, the Eurasian raids and wars, Darfur, Nigeria, Gujarat, KKK, Ireland? I think it’s the ‘real’ human factor that comes up in each and everyone of these cases. Pakistan is really bad, I agree. But we are no worse than many others at similar times.

The proper thing is How Do We Change This. Education is one (and I don’t mean only Schooling or College but all forms of Education). TV and Media are other ways. Plays are another. It’ll take years, but this has to be done if we want an ideal world.Recommend

@hamood. I would agree with u. A bunch of un civilized people being collected in a beautiful piece of land and now they destroy this with feudal system and violence in the country. No wonder the terrorist feel confident over the civilians.Recommend

Condemn the content not the WRITER.The reality of our problem is that we find fault with everyone whether the speak right or wrong.. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSES people..Recommend

I am shocked too – at George Fulton about his trying to set himself apart from the rest in claiming they are trying to ‘out condemn one another over the senseless killings.’

Let me tell you how he is no different.

“We are, and have always been, a barbaric, degenerate nation revelling in bloodlust,” claimed Fullton before presenting the evidence in form of a tale of million men butchery.

Now, first, there goes out through the window his assertion about himself being different on ‘out condemning’ others. Also, that is because his presentation in the foregoing sentence is nothing short of misrepresentation.

The ‘barbaric, degenerate nation’ Fulton mentions actually represents only one part ‘we’ and five part those whom we gained separation from ‘during a bloody partition.’

Therefore, in Fulton’s statement, “Our nation was forged during a bloody partition — in which up to one million people were massacred,” is obviously not where the problem started because we were on the ‘massacred’ end of the affair.

If the author wants to help his readers trace the reasoning to today’s waive of barbarism, why people have grown insensitive to death and destruction, why people make open calls to kill Ahmadis, or why nearly 100 Ahmadi’s were massacred in Lahore on May 28, he needs to start with the first victory of mullah-ism through a certain resolution adopted on March 12, 1949 within only a few month of Jinnah’s untimely death.

Mr. Fulton can then guide the search forward to 1953′s anti-Ahmadiyya riots and mullah’s hand therein and through the 1955 Munir Inquiry report, to 1974 where a democratically elected leader’s cowardliness and self-serving efforts was on display and an illiterate nation stood by in making mockery of the constitution and of the Islamic principle. Some say the efforts bought him three extra months in power.

Next, Mr. Fulton can bring up the 1984′s dictator who was hell-bent on pleasing a particular Islamist extremist terrorists’ party and was responsible for the creation of Jehadi Taliban externally and strict anti-minority blasphemy laws and anti-ahmadiyya laws internally. By the way Mr Fulton can have his readers estimate how many lives lost worldwide can be pinned to the existence of Taliban? A certain Islami jamat was most instrumental in that wonderful cause for Islam. If the name fits, wear it!.

And finally, have them go in search of the several breeds of lice hanging around n the long beards of certain mullahs of today. You can easily spot them as they are usually seen on TV being addressed as ‘Ulma-e Kara’am’.

Now, this would certainly set the record right.Recommend

Quite unfortunate,a lot of truth but a bit of exaggeration too.
The west first went through the dark ages and then came the renaissance.For us Muslims (not just in Pakistan but world over),we began with an awakening and then went into a deep sleep and continue to do so.Recommend

Your hand is a part of your body like every other part of your body. Just like that a group of a few hundred people( i say again ) a group of few hundred people represent us pakistanis as a whole! Sialkot lyniching wasnt a one man show or a two man show or for that matter a 10 man show, it was a crowd of scores and more which represent the average pakistani. What happened in Sialkot is tragic, it is sad, it is inhumane and it is a representation of us, you and me and every other person who is from the Great Pakistan . SO lets for a change accept that we have faults, so lets for a change put our good for nothing pride and ego aside and accept what we are, realization is what we need.
So whats wrong with a british pakistani telling you what we really are? he isnt wrong or is he? it is this very ignorant attitude that we have had for the past 60 odd years that we are here.
Fasi and George are doing the very right thing. We need this character bashing in as harsh words as we can coz we are a nation whos “dheet” , who is sleeping under the illusion that we are a sleeping giant when in reality we are nothing even close to it.

one of the readers commented that lynching is a part of history?? so is sex, so is drugs, so is prostituion, so is liqor? so what do we do, oh yeah lets make everything that was part of history legal and public? kuddos!! every nation makes is own history and we are making ours.

anyother of my fellow readers said, not only ahmadis are killed everyone is killed?? so that justifies the killing of ahmadis??

Rise before the water is above your neck, rise before its too late.

P.S didnt find a solution above? you wont! coz you havent realized that there is something wrong with us.Recommend

what the nation fails to realize is the simple fact of tolerance. who gave anyone the right to touch let alone murder another individual? that too without knowing what the debate was actually about? and i haven’t read all the comments but I’m pretty sure some besides me too have thought about the fact that even if the uneducated masses were watching the so called justice what were those “educated journalists” doing gawking at the entire scene? their duty is to report but not at the expense of loosing their streak of humanity. y didn’t they step up???? also regarding your friend i hope he realizes the folly of his actions.
an eye for an eye will only render the entire world blind and not do much good.Recommend

I am disgusting by the comments that say Mr.Fulton has been in this country for a short period of time, and therefore has no right to comment. To those who agree with this, I would like to say:

Don’t you get it? Our country is such a mess, that a man doesnt have to live here very long to identify the wrongdoings of our people. Hats off to him for bothering to write about it and getting us to take notice of the core issue.

Instead of accusing him of doing something wrong, please understand what he is saying. What difference does it make, where he is from and how long he has been in Pakistan for? He’s giving you food for thought. Just be intellectual for once and accept your fault.Recommend

does it really matter who says it? i mean so what the writer has been in pakistan for a couple of years. i am a pakistan and i have been away from pakistan for a long time and i recently returned, and i share the same sentiments. these are views oof every common man and woman of pakistan, wether they’re a foreigner or a national it doesn’t matter. we have pakistani immigrants in britian who are vocal about matters there, no one tells them they cant speak out cause they’re immigrants.Recommend

Pakistan has never been a pure, peaceful Islamic state. And it never will be!

well George, who are you to tell us at what Pakistan will ever will be! the guy Kashif and LC are fairly right in all that they say! have you ever wondered what sort of nation are you from! good and bad time come on all nations and we have seen barbarity in all cultures including your british culture to be one of the most barbaric of its times! what is your problem and who are you to tell us what will become of Pakistan in future? anyway. id like to suggest to you that despite trying to demean us, you should do something to help us, and if you cant you’re not needed here!

the killing in sialkot is a brutally criminal act, ad many facts you state about the Punjabi movie macho culture were right, but you have no right trying to rid us of the hope we still have and we will foster inshaAllah! please engage your brain in some constructive activity, or at-least try to use a constructive tone if you wish to help us, we dunt want your british bias here!Recommend

One persons crime does not make whole nation or community the criminal. But at the same time, I feel countries like Pakistan, which was founding idealogy was based on the hatered against a particular coumunity, needs to relook the whole idealogy. It can potry itself a separate nation, without instilling poison of hatered in young mind.It can find many more bonding glue for it’s citizen, to replace hatered, because once hate becomes core value, it creates many more basket people to be hated, may be in the name of religion, language, geogarphy, sect, subsect etc. Pakistan lost Bangaldesh because it’s people thought bengali inferior and hated them. They fought three wars with india, because they Hindus. Objective teaching of History to young may correct many ills of Pakistani social fabric.Recommend

Much of the content of your article is unfortunately true, but to write such a piece when millions of Pakistanis are homeless and drowning shows a huge lack of sensitivity. Could you not have held yr tongue a while?Recommend

I understand your viewpoint; but I have a few observations on your piece, which I would like to share. The shock horror expressed by so many is necessary, it shows that we still have some humanity left. It is when we stop being appalled by these things, that’s when we should worry. Apportioning part of the blame to illiteracy and poverty is also not wholly incorrect. Granted literacy does not necessarily lead to principles of decency or ethics. It does however reduce occurrences of such heinous atrocities. Literacy promotes reasoning and rationality, thus giving a person an added variety of options rather than reacting with brut force or primal instinct.
Similarly poverty cannot be overlooked as a contributing factor. Self actualisation and the will to make ones self a better human being are all philosophies of the full stomach. When the daily trials and tribulations of acquiring sustenance and providing security for ones family are immensely difficult, thoughts of mercy and goodwill to mankind are not top of the list. Rather the daily frustrations slowly build up to a virtual ticking bomb.
The breakdown of social contract between state and individual is not so much the absence of governance as it is the absence of hope; the latter being far more dangerous. It is the realisation that nobody cares and by extension nobody is going to make it better. Like an orphan you must look out for yourself because it’s a dog eat dog world and only the meanest rottweiler is going to survive.
As for our past, some have commented that it was the British divide and rule tactics that lead to the massacres. Others have pointed out to the past atrocities of the now proud nations. The violence towards the African American in USA and the brutality meted out to the Northern Irish by the British are a part of history. The difference is, these nations have put behind them those dark days whereas we are going through ours. Whatever the reasons for our sadistic past, the outcry over this incident just might be a sign of our evolution.
I have already touched upon the brutal marginalisation of minorities at the hands of the public in now progressive nations. As for the Bhuttos, they weren’t killed by a mob rather they were murdered against the will of the mob.
If violence in cinema was the primary catalyst in inspiring people to acts of the same, then Japan would be a bloody graveyard. Revenge action films are a popular genre in all countries. Remember “Death Wish”. Maybe Quentin Tarantino should be put behind bars for instigating violence.
Where there is an evil deed of burying women in Balochistan there is an equally gut wrenching act of the French woman who suffocated and buried nine of her newborns. For every venom spewing Aamir Liaquat there is an evangelist preacher or Rabbi churning out his own brand of poison. In the same way for every Ahmadi executed here there is a Roma person torched in Europe. The difference is that the people in those countries are shocked and surprised by such acts and thus are driven to remonstration. Isn’t that what we are doing here, now?Recommend

very good… the truth speaks out… this, what happened, is nothing new… it’s our blood ‘n when it cames out, ‘n the whole world make an issue of that.. then v say, that it’s wrong…Recommend

SOOO awesomeRecommend

Very nice, George I am your fan … mmm .. pedestal fanRecommend

George’s point of view is difficult to digest, but inevitable to accept for any rational Pakistani. There are savages in every nation, and a savage in all of us. The question is what institutions have we put to guard against the maddening howls of savagery that arise from within us? Are they strong enough to reign in our worst impulses?

Sadly, such constraints and institutions can only be held in place by those with a fundamental foundation of legitimacy and authority. Our recent savage outbursts are only the most recent symptoms of a long-drawn out disease. The disease is the failure to find a stable formula for governing and ruling ourselves in line with the best interest of the public.

Till we solve that problem, be prepared for more Sialkot incidents.Recommend

I do not agree. this might b a way of looking at it. it is not the mater of being surprised. it is time to wake up for every one. if u look at the world history,these things happen where ever ppl r left with out guidance , knowledge, and most of all without law enforcement. people doing things without realizing its implications and impacts,is called ignorance . only thing in the world that can save us and our nation is EDUCATION and a true leadership otherwise we will remain like misguided missiles.As we say in urdu “shutar-e-bay muhar”.that can only bring destruction.Recommend

Great Article! I say make George the Prime Minister / President of Pakistan! Bring back the good old days of the British Raj. On a serious note, I think he is more Pakistani than many of our politicians and sons / daughters of politiciansRecommend

Its amazing that after a few years of living in Pakistan you call yourself as one of “us”. Please dont bother… we have too many problems of our own and dont need to add you on to our plate of issues. Yes, we are a tribal nation who live in within our cultural bounds and value which people like you call barbaric, outdated and shameful ( and I agree), however we are a compassionate people and do a lot of good too. People like you never come forward and say something nice about Pakistan, because it doesnt sell…so to sell yourslef you just throw slurs at Pakistan. I totally agree that what happened in Sialkot is unpardonable, but to say that we are all like that??? is it fair? I find your peice to be extremely racist.Recommend

I don’t think George wrote the article with malicious intentions; more as an eye-opener or perhaps even a channel to vent. So for people to say that he is a foreigner and is no one to judge the goings on in Pakistan merely proves his point that we as a nation lack tolerance. Having said that, however, I do think the last paragraph was a little too salient in it’s condescension and the rather despondent (somewhat holier than thou?) tone that suggests that Pakistan is broken beyond repair. To pass such a grave statement is not really fair to the nation. I think there is still hope. It’s just up to us to actually get up and do something – rather than updating our facebook statuses and commenting on this article.
P.S. Loved the LOTF reference. That was at the back of my mind throughout the article – before I read it. Though, that does not mean I condone it. I still think your last paragraph was far too extreme and border-line rude.Recommend

It is easy to stand back and judge us and say brutality is our national charecter. It most certainly is not.What human society had not been cruel and unjust? One just has to refer to world history to site examples of similar brutality. The day we stop acting surprised when someone is senselessly murdered that is the day we stop calling ourselves human.Recommend

Bravo!
very well executed- ‘we’ needed to hear this and we, unfortunately, knew this all along. The DENIAL has to go and reality needs to be embraced. We are, no doubt, a monstrous ethinic group with no prosperous outlook on life. we are a joke!Recommend

I don’t question George’s desire to integrate into a society which is rife with violence, corruption and extremism. Yet, its a welcoming, charitable and hospitable society. Or you wouldn’t be there Georgie ! No one is holding a gun to your head, or are they?

Yet, as an outsider I’d be careful NOT to blame or criticize the nation as a whole. Its silly to say we r genetically inclined to bloodshed or any such nonsense. This was an exception, NOT an everyday occurrence. It is rightly being condemned. Also agree with many who have commented that its time for solutions not further ctiticism.
The present government and the level of corruption does play a part in this unfortunate incident. The common man is frustrated, hungry and thus angry. Mob lynching is pathetic yet the entire world is guilty of such heinous crimes at some point. Here in the USA serial killers are mere messed up individual. But to generalize and say its their culture, their history and in their blood would be unfair. Or the racial killing in Britain of young teenagers ….or going back in time and the Salem witch hunt.
Can pull out many many incidents from every nation which will shame the socks off their citizens. Cannot paint the entire nation with the same brush. NO fair !!! Also consider the literacy level.
We r NOT a bad people just going thru a BAD time. Majority of us condemn such unfortunate incidents. The stupid crowd (herd mentality) was made to think these poor kids were robbers and murderers. I am not trying to justify the barbaric n sadistic bystanders and in my mind as responsible as the ones wielding the blows BUT its lack of law n justice which led to it…NOT some stupid notion that Pakistanis love gore and violence.Recommend

“Our nation was forged during a bloody partition” Are most modern nations not formed under the same conditions? Was the American war of independence led by Gandhi-like leaders achieving freedom via hunger-strikes?

“And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night, that our flag was still there.” I doubt strongly that our national anthem is referring to fireworks when speaking of rockets and bombs.

Face it George, infant nations are forged into more mature and stable ones through turmoil, violence, and war. That’s the call of the times, as unfortunate as it may be.

Yes, incidents like this occur again and again (and most go unnoticed) in Pakistan… but the fact that every once in a while people can look at themselves and become horrified of what happens within the country tells us that humanity yet remains within those borders. It tells us that even though some may stray, they are not completely lost. That one day, if they try hard enough, they may just be able to pull themselves out of this downward spiral.Recommend

i agree with things written here but no one ever suggests a solution??? or for that matter do anything. we are good at protesting by words, joining groups on facebook etc etc but never do anything practically. if by luck anyone stands up to such people, he/she is threatened, their relatives are either injured or even killed. we need SENSIBLE taliban style people who would not kill every other person but only the few (70%) who do such things as done at sialkot or we should become a colony of a stable, strong coutry ;) because WE ARE USELESS and we need help, no offense to anyone.Recommend

This article in essence articulates my feelings from A to Z. And I am a Pakistani who is familiar with the history of the country. Most of the responses to this article attempt on shifting the blame and are typical of “we are not the only people capable of this, this also happens/has happened elsewhere”, but no one else claims to be the flag bearers of Islam as much as we do. @ LC – this is not George insulting Pakistan, this is us insulting humanity and in the process betraying Pakistan and the reason for which it was made. Have you forgotten the burying of women in Baluchistan or the daily grind of peasents’ life on the feudal society we live in? We are being shown our faces and they are so ugly that we blame it on the mirror.Recommend

Five Fingers are never the same, for this you can’t blame all Pakistanis in one say neither this is due to bloody partition of Pakistan. Possible Strong reasons for this violent behavior is:
1-No justice in the society
2-Corruption, Poverty, Multiple standards
3-Presenting religion in a wrong way (all the religions)
4-Harebrained people, confused b/w religion,ethics & the world
5-bloodshed the country is covered in, more than 9 years now.Recommend

either you have written this out of desperation and true sadness for Pakistan or its another of the drawing room vibes over a cup of coffee you refer to in your own article. In either case the tone is too sarcastic and I am sorry I don’t agree to it.

We are not a nation as you suggest we are, we are dominated by a mob who acts like that, the mob that won’t read these articles and won’t be affected by it. The lesser minority of us needs to stay focussed and positive and do whatever little we can to stay as close to the path as possible and thats our only chance of recovery.

The response to sialkot incident is a glimpse of hope that not all is lost. The massacres you refer to at partition are a bitter reality but nonetheless it was the brave movement led by Jinnah that led to us being Pakistanis and though the mob spoiled the victory then we should never forget true Pakistanis have existed and will exist and one day will throw out these mobs and their mentality.Recommend

I would really not agree. I strongly condemn this article which call us a barbaric nation. Are we barbaric? we are really not barbaric at all. WE ARE MUCH LESS BARBARIC THAN MOST OF THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. Just take example of europe. Was Hitler a Pakistani? Is Israel part of Pakistan who crushed 100s of thousands of childern and women? Is Pakistan providing weapons to Israel? Did pakistan went to kill millions of innocent childern and women in Iraq and Afghanistan and bombarded wedding parties? Did Pakistan use atomic bombs? Is pakistan responsible for racial violences in America? Is there any developed and the so called civilized country whose history is better than that of pakistan. how can george forget all the really barbarism of the west.Recommend

gorgee i cudnt disagree with u more … !Recommend

George you need to be careful because these ‘Pakistani’s’ who are questioning and condemning you for writing something which is an absolute truth are the reason we are what we are today… Let me ask all my fellow countrymen if this article was written by someone who was born and bred here would your reaction still be the same… I think not.. Its just because George is a ‘gora’ and he so rightly pointed out our barbaric nature thus the condemnation… Stop it you all, Because what you are doing is exactly what George has written about.. We are a bunch of barbarians who have no place for tolerance…Recommend

I have problems with this article for producing such a misleading & vested conclusion from such a brutal & unfortunate incident based on the following points
– Partition was mishandled by the British causing India & Pakistan fighting & losing lives ever after
– No one is happy over the incident, every one of us is disturbed over it thus showing that we dont like it as a nation so please do not insult us
– Using Punjabi movies & inferring that we like violence is very naive on your part, what do you think of Bollywood & Hollywood movies, WWF Wrestling…… do they promote something different
– When we are hit by any terrorist, we are equally hurt & sad over the losses regardless of the faith or belief of victims( last year we lost more than 3500 people in Pakistan & a huge majority of them were people from main stream faith)……and we were equally sad for the killing of Ahmadis…..You please do not add salt to their wounds!!!!
– What do you say of the trigger happy CIA drone operators, they have killed more than 700 innocent people in our country….are they barbaric…..is that Ok with you
– We cant claim that we dont have problems in our country, and you are not helping by creating such a passimistic view using this incident…..

Please spread some positiveness because such a message will only make us more negative, thank you!Recommend

This incident is an eyeopener for us where do we stand socially. we are in a very horible stage where an innocent person is being killed in front of many people and NONE tried to stop anything. no-one can be socially more worst than that. we have to look at the causes and how can we improve our social culture. But the way George you painted it, you should be ashamed of yourself. I no-way better than those people who are spreading hopless within our NATION. and please don’t think you are one of us as your words and your lack of knowledge depicts.Recommend

George I’m glad u wrote this article because articles like this unite us Pakistanis together. i wonder if you have an identity because you opted to live in a barbaric nation yourself. we are as loving and as caring as you will find any people anywhere in the world. labeling criminals as “Muslims” and “Pakistanis” is very easy. let us reflect and research on how many nations and how many religions and which countries never acted this barbarically and still don’t do??? weather it be a public killing, a domestic violence or an unjust sentence, where in the world is it not done to this day??? and as for being in your peaceful land Britain, a common man cannot walk the streets at night in fear for his life, fear of at least getting “brutally injured” would u not agree??? and if you are as intelligent as i take you for, you wrote this article on purpose to get people’s reactions.
to condemn this act of violence and label the ones responsible for this as “criminals” and not muslims and pakistanis would be just as criminals are the same anywhere in the world, without a conscience and a soul as these men who beat these two innocent boys were. I, as a human being and a Pakistani citizen condemn these acts and don’t feel any “delight” on them.
may their souls rest in peace ameen.Recommend

Before we all forget, the incident came to limelight only when the Chief Justice of Pakistan took a suo moto notice.Recommend

well written George… but as you just said we are just criticizing the system….even in your article you have criticized…we all are no different from those who stood their watching those brothers being beaten to death…Pakistan has given us an identity, if we cant say anything good about it we dont have the right to say anything bad about it even…i truly appreciate your concern about trying to bring in the change but not at the sake of saying bad things to MY country…YES our movies suck big time because of lack of education…and educating such a big lot of people is not an easy task….all the countries standing as super powers have had their bad times even…and im pretty sure Pakistan will flourish and its people will learn from their mistakes…lets not say anything to the name of our country at least it hurts =)….lets hope pray and try to bring in change by educating people….Recommend

George, I did not like a bit what you wrote about Pakistan in this article though you have shaken the pillars of logic by shedding light on this subject; but i will tell you one thing only, everyone knows what we people are capable of; after all the years of struggle no one has been able to form any system in PAkistan, we have not been able to utilise our resources; generate income from it and minimise the economic & trade deficit; which is also due to our internal weakness and permission from PAKISTANI’s to let external forces interfere in Pakistan. It has always been pure PAKISTANI to be UNPREDICTABLE. Which might be dangerous but keeps the enemies dissillusioned.

FOREVER PAKISTANRecommend

Gud Article on the whole..
But the voice whch nation rose and protests which were made might help in stopping such incidents in future…
But wat u said , incidents lyk it had been happening in past and da stuff u said aba nation is absltly right ..We really need to chnge ourselves.Recommend

excellent writing , true to the core most . I hope and wish the writer continue more often , depict the very true nature of the arab mediaval code ,which every one in this land of the fack pures surge for always .Recommend

i found this article very harsh, u hv mentioned the brutality with which dat event took place but hw shrewdly u overshadowed the condemnation of the act which came from all the parts of the country.
Secondly y r we blamed for being such barbarics on killing of two boys(note i am not justifying it), dun u remember wat happened in gujrat(india) where thousand of muslims were butchered and that was even worse than this, dont u remember wat europe and other so called civilizations had been doing, killing millions of people only 60 yrs back. than y it is dat when such events happen in pakistan dat we are highlighted so much.
mr george i think every great nation pass through such conditions whetehr u look at the history of France or America, they were not what they are nw it took them hundred of years to be civilized. hw the hell did u call us barbaric only positioning on such events, wat abt America, Britian and her allies who has killed millions of muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq, so u ppl are barbaric not us, we are a frustrated set of a people, frustrated becoz of lack of leadership, lack of justice.
sir i know my country is nt perfect and we need improvement in all the fields of life, but i beleive 1 day we will evolve as a great nation learning from the past, rising from ashes and will c in the eyes of the world and will say Yes WE R THE PAKISTANIS. that day i hope we are not civilzed as u ppl are nw.Recommend

By the way If we can rush to western world ..n become a part of it in an instant..Similarly,George have evry right to say what ever he wants cause he is a national citizen of Pakistan.He is feeling the same pain n misery ..all he he wrote nothing but the truth…We r going to the times of stone ages…n Sorry to say this but we truly Deserve evrything which is happening with us .
Quiet Frankly George i ll advice u to leave this part of the world n live ur life in much better n peacful envoirment.Recommend

george, you look slim. Doing cardio?Recommend

so all of you giving george a credit for all that he has said, with mixed truth and unwanted despair! why are you not out on streets? why are you sitting in your homes!? I dunt see people mobilize or strike back at such atrocities no matter in whatever city! the big thing is, it is easy to criticize a system, but it is very difficult and needs real effort to change it! so much for all of the lip service of all the ‘ashamed of themselves’ Pakistanis who believe that they have ‘barbaric’ blood according to george! I agree you are barbaric because you admit it & you have given in. it is because of all of such as you the system has gone perverse, all of us are responsible for it. mere sitting and commenting while such incidents go on, which is shameless and cowardly. come onto the streets and show us your ability to change the current state of affairs rather than demoralizing others who are working towards a hope and self-pitying yourselves!!!Recommend