- 28 Jul 2012
Govt assures support for ‘water for fuel’ project - 02 Aug 2012
A car that runs on water?
- RSS
- Today's Paper
- Subscribe
- beta 2.1
Alerts
The water car fraud
Agha Waqar Ahmad’s ‘water kit’, if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work.
The writer received his bachelor degrees in electrical engineering and mathematics, as well as masters and Ph.D degrees, from MIT
Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves a medal from the people of Pakistan for his great service to the nation. In a few short days, he has exposed just how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion. No practical joker could have demonstrated more dramatically the true nature of our country’s political leaders, popular TV anchors and famed scientists.
At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.
Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah. Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the ‘water fuel kit project’.
The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad’s invention, Pakistan’s image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man’s life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.
Pakistan’s most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai” (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved). The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: “hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha” (we had some work done on this too).
So, what is the problem? It’s that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad’s ‘water kit’, if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.
To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman, a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.
The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here’s how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the ‘water kit’ contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.
But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin’s magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 3rd, 2012.
______________________________________________
Loading ...
Read more:
WaterCar
Reader Comments (814)
Pakistan Latest Stories
Analysis: Balochistan’s chief problem
Balochistan needs a leader who is backed by a parliament that is serious about resolving these issues.
Transfers and postings case: PM Khoso told to submit response by June 6
The caretaker premier is not required to make a personal appearance before the bench, says Justice Khawaja.
Sticking to its guns: Islamabad reiterates drone strikes violate sovereignty
FO appreciates US President Obama’s statement that force alone can’t defeat terror.
Li Keiqang’s visit: In a slip-up, CDA sends invoice to China mission
Diplomatic protocol dictates that the costs of a state visit are borne by the host country.
The perennial problem: ‘Low water flows a threat to several districts’
Due to high proportion of poisonous elements in the lake, experts only allow 5 to 6 per cent of water flow in Indus.
Election rivalry: PPP candidate issued notice for ‘arson’
Two children died when the houses were set on fire.
SHC dismisses defeated JI candidate’s plea against PTI’s winner
Petitioner alleges that the winning candidate had indulged in massive rigging.
Results vs rigging: Ayaz Palijo challenges election results
Palijo lost the seat to Pakistan Peoples Party’s Jam Khan Shoro by a margin of around 11,000 votes.
Dark ages: The heat is on, the power is off
When a record heat wave comes amidst a record power crisis, the result is misery.
Ensuring pure water: Alavi wants treatment plant fixed by May 28
The contractor has come up with one excuse after the other for not meeting the deadline.
Recent Slideshows
More in Pakistan
Bacha Zarin Jan: A melody queen forgotten
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, redistributed or derived from.
Unless otherwise stated, all content is copyrighted © 2013 The Express Tribune News Network.
Technical feedback? [email protected]
So far there are three claimants of water powered auto-mobiles in Pakistan. An old man in Lahore is claiming to run his Limo type car on water; using it on daily basis. Another resident of Karachi is claiming to run water + fuel mixture saving 30% fuel costs. And this 3rd self styled Engineer challenging Dr Ataaur Rehman in Capital Talk with practical first theories later concept. Lets see how long it take to burst this bubble hyped by media.
Recommend
Would Hoodbhoy be convinced if Agha Waqar tries the water kit on Hoodbhoy’s car and it works well?
Recommend
“MIT has published a new paper (abstract), along with a video of a working prototype, of what they’re describing as an ‘Artificial Leaf’ that separates water into oxygen and hydrogen using cheap, non-exotic materials. ‘The artificial leaf — a silicon solar cell with different catalytic materials bonded onto its two sides — needs no external wires or control circuits to operate. Simply placed in a container of water and exposed to sunlight, it quickly begins to generate streams of bubbles: oxygen bubbles from one side and hydrogen bubbles from the other. If placed in a container that has a barrier to separate the two sides, the two streams of bubbles can be collected and stored, and used later to deliver power: for example, by feeding them into a fuel cell that combines them once again into water while delivering an electric current.’ No word on the arrival of ‘Artificial Salads,’ or when any of their other alchemy projects will bear artificial fruit.”
Recommend
I am asking Dr hoodbhy, what is your contribution for this country? Only criticizing others?
Please stop this foolishness and a chance should be given to this creative man to prove his theory. We support this young man for his creativ work.
Recommend
Amazingly,in a country of 180 million people there are only two scientists who rejected this absurd claim. It is frightening to observe the ignorance and the sorry state of Pakistani ‘scientists’. I just don’t want to imagine what would Pakistan be without Pervez Hoodbhoy and Attaur Rahman.
Recommend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME
water power car already invented in japan. it is practical
Recommend
That is the problem with pakistan, too many people to critcise than to support r&d. And about the article i’d say that it must some different mechanism than just putting water in your genrtors fuel tank we should wait and see what turns out rather than critising somebody elses work the professor from MIT would be more at his
Place if he starts to invent something rather than critsize.
Recommend
no doubt people who blindly accepted this theory and the kit are ignorant. those rejecting this thing without having seen this person or kit are also ignorant. may be the function of the kit may be to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen and both of them can act as fuel and move the pistons.MAY BE.
but to reject this all together and write this harsh article is also JAHALAT.
Recommend
Agha waqar claim has two parts
1. The first claim is that he can run a car on water, which is actually correct, and in my opinion there is no ‘fraud’ in the sense that water can actually be broken in to hydrogen and oxygen and that hydrogen can be used to power the engine. This is similar to how modern ‘hydrogen’ concept cars run, only that the water is electrolysed at a plant and not inside the car.
2. He can do it in a cost effective way, which is actually foolish to think. The energy efficiency of a typical heat engine is 30% to 40%. So no, you can’t charge the battery with the engine to hundred percent and then repeat the cycle endlessly. If he is claiming that the kit drains only 1% of energy in the battery then i think, there is something fishy going on inside his ‘water kit’, he has most probably metal hydride electrodes which release hydrogen when current is applied and the water is effectively boiled and disappears as vapors rather than being electrolysed thus completing the illusion that water is being converted to ‘HHO’ gas. The catch is that metal hydrides are quite expensive to manufacture and if a car is run in the said manner, the cost of operating it would be several times than that of petrol.
Recommend
The fact that there is any usable energy available in the universe fundamentally contradicts the “laws” of thermodynamics (unless the entire multiverse adds up to precisely zero, which is likely).
Until we fully understand how the universe exists, there is the possibility that unforeseen ways may be found to liberate energy or even create it.
Scientists biased by their training have great trouble being faithful to science where unexplored areas are concerned. That’s why development of indisputably real energy from low energy nuclear reactions (LENRs) has been slowed and underfunded for decades. That tragedy, thankfully, is finally poised to end.
Potential new energy sources, with such spectacularly beneficial consequences for all of us if real, deserve extra-careful scrutiny before being discarded.
And fraudsters should be aggressively prosecuted to reduce the damage-by-similarity they cause to legitimate efforts. The exact nature of their frauds should be exposed openly.
Recommend
Leadership are so use to breaking laws that now we want to break laws of physical world.
That guy reminds me of the tailor who made invisible dress for the king. Everybody praised the dress, afraid of being called a stupid untill a small kid. exposed it all. I wish that that guy could sell this invention to the our king (president) for $60m and then run away with the money ;-)
Recommend
The efforts made on part of this young scientist must be lauded instead to criticize .It may not be the end but its good start which will eventually lead to more discoveries in this field.Pervaiz Hudbouy is always critical whether its Atta Ur rehaman “Wonders of science” or any other such developments.I ask him whats his own contribution for Pakistan except criticizing others.
Recommend
To all the Einsteins here who’ve asked the question “How come the car runs on water ?” , the answer is that it doesn’t. My guess is that he makes people think he’s running the car on water but the fact is it’s still running on petrol/cng. Just because you have a ”water switch’ in the car doesn’t mean you can run it with water.
The guy is a fraud, a charlatan. Back in 2008, a company ‘Genepax’ in Japan claimed to have the water technology running. Turns out, the company either was a scam or the technology failed. A Sri Lankan claimed the EXACT same thing this guy is claiming, only to be sued later for committing fraud.
I am with Hoodbhoy and Ata-ur-Rehman and I believe every sensible person should.
PS: Please try to look beyond conspiracy theories. The oil lobby would’ve nothing to do with this one this guy is proven to be a trickster.
Recommend
The credit must go to common guys like us who have been campaigning against this FRAUD on youtube videos comments and other forums at our (whatever) level since day one. You only made a late entry in this drama.
Recommend
The car is basically running on hydrogen gas,its gud but its very dangerous,thats why it cannot be commercial,hydrogen gas means u r playing with nuclear based fuel,if any leckage of the gas appears,there would be an explosion that cannot be imagine……
the man said that he is running a car with water,water cannot be used as a fuel for combustion on commercial basis….
Recommend
oh… you have broken millions of hearts… :’( :p
Recommend
Uncle Before writing any article make sure to put complete context. You just cut few lines of what Dr A.Q. Khan said and pasted here. I have seen whole show. Dr A.Q. Khan was saying if this is done and practically shown then it’s really good invention. Still you people can make sure to check it completely for any hidden tank. Also NUST is asked for 50 Lac for testing whole process. What you will say about universities of Pakistan who are also making money, not only Pakistani Govt and other people whom you mentioned here. Don’t lead people in wrong directions for our National hero (Dr A.Q Khan).
Recommend
@Tanzeel: Really bad example, “Flat Earth” was our incapacity to check the idea but the 2nd law of thermodynamics has been tried and tested. Dont wish for a miracle Lets make one happen as a nation! Cheers and god bless!
Recommend
not a bad way to spend a few days discussing a false ” achievement” instead of reading/hearing about the ever green negatives (murder, rape, street crimes, blasts).. c’mon guys, admit it.. we Pakistani are thirsty to hear any sort of “positive” news, even at the expense of being taken for a ride.
Recommend
@mirza
Please google first, like everyother river Nile also flows downhill
Recommend
Thank you for writing this … this episode saddens me.
Recommend
Well written article.
we needed such a piece of writing.
Recommend
simply explained. thanks dear hoodbhoy.
Recommend
Jokes apart, I sincerely pray that Engr Agha waqar is right, nullifies entire physics and we have a Nobel laureate from Pakistan this time pakka Musalman.
Recommend
Hi all of u.About this invention ,it is great effort by waqar ahmad. People should not be so astonishing and surprise.bcoz first philipino ,then china and Japan and America has done their exercise. I am very sorry by this article which consider it as fraud. If such efforts done by abroad it is welcome but if it is done by native these so called elite has pinch in stomach.bcoz they frustrate that they hv PhD degrees and nothing is doneby them.their degrees are degrees whether genuine or fake.we should encourage such people who sacrifice their time n money rather than criticise in dumped manner. Waqar ahmad is proud of this nation and we welcome and pray for his success. Geo waqar ahmad geo.
Recommend
physics professors who even not bother to see whether the laws of physics could be applied here or not. I am a Biochemistry Phd fellow and to my amaze that in this case which is purely a chemistry matter, laws of physics cannot be applied as these laws are for mechanical machines only. In vehicles fuels are used and energy is derived from their burning. In theory Hydrogen from water can be used in the cars as fuel as it has been used in lot of countries in the world. So vehicles are using chemicals for energy so the laws of thermodynamics cannot be applied in the water car and from chemistry point of view it is not only possible but it has already been done on a limited scale in the world.Recommend
in 2008, Sri Lankan news sources reported that Thushara Priyamal Edirisinghe claimed to drive a water-fuelled car about 300 kilometers[35] on three litres of water.[36][37] Like other alleged water-fuelled cars described above, energy for the car is supposedly produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using electrolysis, and then burning the gases in the engine. Thushara showed the technology to Prime Minister Ratnasiri Wickramanayaka, who “extended the Government’s full support to his efforts to introduce the water-powered car to the Sri Lankan market.”[36] Thushara was arrested a few months later on suspicion of investment fraud.[4]
Daniel Dingel, a Filipino inventor, has been claiming since 1969 to have developed technology allowing water to be used as fuel. In 2000, Dingel entered into a business partnership with Formosa Plastics Group to further develop the technology. In 2008, Formosa Plastics successfully sued Dingel for fraud, with the 82-year-old Dingel being sentenced to 20 years imprisonment.[3]
Recommend
Well, we need to realize the burden of Proof, which is on the person who claims. But 1st need to deny it.
No one has denied it practically, is this really so much hard to investigate it. I would suggest the writer should go and investigate it practically rather writing articles here.
Everybody can balm but to go and fix the matter is real achievement.
Thank You
Recommend
im a medical scientist and dont know much about this much talked about second law … all i know that knowldge and theories become obsolete v fast ….. this guy drove a car in front of all of us on tv and many car experts including suzuki ppl confirmed that besides the water kit there was no other source of energy … if the guy has come up with something how can u totally reject him using such harsh language… theories come and theories go … many treatments that i studied as a student 5 years back for a condition have now become contraindicated and its criminal to give them to a patient … so u shud be open to ideas and new inventions …. im surprised whats making these scientists react so aggressively
Recommend
@JCD:
Dear all if this was fake then how was he able to run the car. What were all those professors and head of renowned institutions doing there. I am not an engineer but what i understand is that all those who oppose him mean that ” the energy required to break water into hydrogen and oxygen is more than that which is produced by burning hydrogen in the engine chamber” If this is so then the car should not run at all or for a short distance (battery). But according to him he has been driving the car for last six months. Now the other possibility that he tricked all of them standing there and used some secret fuel. but then what were those scientists doing there. lets look at the other side “the energy produced in the chamber by burning hydrogen is much more than that used to break water into H2 and O”. He must have used some secret catalyst in the electrolysis process or there might be that very minute quantity of mater must be changing into energy in the burning chamber. or the energy stored in the water when water was made by combining hydrogen and oxygen during early days of earth creation is now used. One thing i know is that scientist have tried for decades to find this magic catalyst. Can someone please further clarify
Recommend
While I agree the whole thing is a hoax, but the media continues to promote it because, with all due respect, you along with Dr. Atta ur Rehman are attacking the issue incorrectly.
Do you really think our mediapersons and politicians understand the laws of thermodynamics? If they did, this whole thing would never have become an issue!
Please, just someone go to this guy, accept his challenge of analyzing his car, and prove that his energy source is something other than water. END THIS INSANITY!
Recommend
Hoodbhoy sounds like old church and very desperate that he is only witty person in physics after dr atta u rehman…… i see nothing practical evidence in hoodbhoy article except one thing never challenge laws of thermodynamics??? Why? Agha Waqar’s car runs at least and no one has challenged that car doesn’t work? I think Agha Waqar work needs attention, it may be a breakthrough in physics! For hoodbhoy; u may hv said same words for thomas edison who was educated in no big college or school….
Recommend
@chandio: Dear I am very disappointed by your comments that this guy is being bashed just because of his ethnicity. I regret that people from Sindh always bend arguments towards provincialism rather than logic. Whatever Mr. Waqar has done, shall be evident and exposed within no time. He will be a hero of all of us(Punjabis included) if his idea works well. Kindly we have suffered too much due to ethnicity conflict, let us not do it in this pure technological question.
Recommend
stop arguing over it . let that man demonstrate. :)
give him a chance as “imran khan is demanding” :-p
Recommend
I dont think we should wait for nuclear scientist to prove this wrong. Any student of mechanical or even electrical engineering should know its fake. Its simple and straight forward, u just cannot go against basics laws of physics.
Majority pakistanis lack basic scientific knowledge and this is worrying me. We would be left far behind the world and the world will laugh at us. The people who say, keep your mind open, well, all i can say is they also need to get educated. you should keep your mind open, but there are limitations. This is so basic, there is no way it is possible.
Recommend
Good initiative Pervaiz Sb Sir. I am a Mechanical design engineer and since last three days i am trying best to teach emotional ignorant peoples about the scam of Agha sb on different blogs . The claim of Agha sb are all confusing from start, he says he is doing electrolysis of distilled water, using capacitors to trigger resonance and feeding hydrogen in standard engines to run it without modification, and best of all he is creating energy at least 75 times of input.
Beside the fact first law & second law cannot be violated, distilled water can’t be electrolyzed, capacitor don’t work on pure DC so they can’t generate wave form to create resonance. To run 30KW engine (cultus) it is required at least 100KW of hydrogen power which Agha sb is generating through electrolysis from a generator/battery on board which can deliver maximum 0.4KW. So he is generating 30KW from 0.4KW (more than 100% perpetual motion). Standard engines also cannot run on hydrogen without modification in aspiration system, ignition and valve timings. A standard cultus engine would consume 700gm of hydrogen to cover 40km but in Agha sb case it is consuming only 100gm. Every thing is marvelous.
It is not much concern that media is created a hype of some illusionist; it is more concerned that a person is raping science & engineering and we have much silence on other end. The degrees of scientists who favored the Agha should be rechecked
Recommend
The best part about this article is that dr pervez wrote without meeting that guy mr Agha and even without looking at his invention. Our problem is that We close our hearts and minds if we have been to MIT and done Phd. We don’t want to see the inventions even they have been claimed wrongs. This thought of showing ourselves science gods should be criticized. I would request mr pervez to at least have a ride with mr Agha.
Recommend
Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai”……I wish Pakistanis would open their eyes to these two self-serving frauds. All they care about is themselves. AQ got into a bad spot before he could milk his fame but Mayanaz Sainsdan # 2 is slowly spreading his tentacles into Reqo Dik (mining) as there is big money involved there. He has also appointed himself Charman of Thar Coal Energy Board. As a nuclear physicist I wonder why he thinks he is a mining expert – be it coal or copper/ gold?
Recommend
Yes hoodbhoy..i always criticise ur criticism but this time u done it right..its a big fraud..and Gov will allocate budget in the name of project and fill up their pockets…
Recommend
I agree totally with Hasan above. Of course you can run a car from water!!
Stanley Meyer, Dr Ghulam Sarwar and many many MANY more.
Petroleum industry would kill to make sure that this tech doesn’t catch on in a hurry. So negative media campaigns against the idea is not exactly going to weigh on too many people’s conscience as far as they are concerned.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c66d6bfc-67aa-11e1-978e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22QLoKfnd
My guess the petroleum will want Hydrogen technology to come from Petroleum and Natural Gas rather than from WATER. Policy makers are paid handsome salaries from this industry, so of course they become biased towards the notion of that option being more sound.
Therefore this is the route car manufacturers will take as a result too.
The author can speak for himself when he say that ‘we live in an age of Jahilliyah’!
I REALLY DO ENVY THOSE WHO RUN THEIR CARS ON WATER. IT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN PETROL! ;)
God bless us all and have mercy on our souls, Ameen.
Recommend
@yasir
I never seen any other country news paper making fun of there own country the way E,T does
shamefully.
Recommend
There is a big difference between a theory and a law just as between reason and religion. We can question a theory but not a fundamental law. All the inventions and discoveries, except that of God, were, and will be, based on a scientific law. What we need desperately now is that we must make compulsory the study of fundamental laws of science instead of Pak. Study and probe weather we really have devised, on our own, a functional nuclear device as we claim to have demonstrated in May, 1998.
Recommend
I agree totally with Hasan above. Of course you can run a car from water!!
Stanley Meyer, Dr Ghulam Sarwar and many many MANY more.
Petroleum industry would kill to make sure that this tech doesn’t catch on in a hurry. So negative media campaigns against the idea is not exactly going to weigh on too many people’s conscience as far as they are concerned.
My guess the petroleum will want Hydrogen technology to come from Petroleum and Natural Gas rather than from WATER. Policy makers are paid handsome salaries from this industry, so of course they become biased towards the notion of the petroleum option being more sound.
Therefore, this is the route car manufacturers will take as a result too.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c66d6bfc-67aa-11e1-978e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22QLoKfnd
The author can speak for himself when he say that ‘we live in an age of Jahilliyah’!
I REALLY DO ENVY THOSE WHO RUN THEIR CARS ON WATER. IT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN PETROL! ;)
God bless us all and have mercy on our souls, Ameen.
Recommend
I am thinking it important at this time to explain the Water Fuel Kit technology of Agha Waqar, as I have learnt from the Agha Waqar’s TV programs, as follows: Resonance is the most powerful phenomenon in the Science. If resonance be applied to any force, effect of the force will increase hundreds of times of the original force (electrolysis), although the energy used will be almost same as applying only this simple force (electrolysis without resonance).
Using the same technique, Agha Waqar produced huge amount of Hydrogen through very small force from battery.
Therefore he converted the static energy of the Water into the kinetic energy from Hydrogen burning to run the Car and return back the small applied force to the battery too. This is exactly according to the law of conservation of energy.
Recommend
hmm …
I am on stage where this experiment is really matters for me as student and educational research with its boundaries, we can hope that as before ( Dr Abdul Salam ) was awarded as noble award, we have to proof our self we are best in world.
Please request to everyone don’t dis-hurt nation with fake stories and experiments, try to listen each other with respect and knowledge, dont fight with each on basis of knowledge, as my Allah already said : i had mad Man Kind Supreme to others, some time invention are GOD gifted.
best of luck for those who are working for Making Pakistan Better Country.
Recommend
@umair usman
Thomas Edison was not holding a oxford diploma either.Recommend
http://www.zemtv.com/2012/08/02/prime-time-rana-mubasher-another-water-fuelled-car-by-engr-muhammd-qamar-khan-2nd-august-2012/ Ik aur inventor
Recommend
@Umair Usman:
Bhai, I am also a diploma holder (and B- Tech too), please do not start the Diploma & B-Engg. war here again.
Only Media has made it a drama otherwise its only a good advancement in Water Kit (Hydrogen fuel cell).
It’s only a Water Kit, by chance or I would like to say accidentally become more efficient, but it couldn’t be 100% efficient.
I guess it a battery which is the source of energy in this case. Energy stored in battery is being utilized for hydrolysis process of water kit and battery isn’t being recharged by the hydrogen output of this water kit. Perhaps the battery is being charged while this car is running of petrol or CNG.
I am very sad to see the way this (so called science) matter is being handed in our country.
Recommend
@Syed Ali Raza:
Splitting Water and using the hydrogen would be a whole lot easier, if governments let us get on with it. TRUST ME! :)
Recommend
Shame on all of you.I dont know about this guy if is right or wrong but you can easily make HHO with water which is highly combustible gas and you only need little bit of energy to do so.So open your eyes all of you and google some stuff before you say something.
Pakistan Zindabad.
Recommend
If you’re so desperately concerned about our national image, for God’s sake, stop ruining it further. Every country on the planet has it’s fair share of such issues. Take it as one instead of publicizing the whole thing and making a laughing stock out of this nation and it’s people.
Recommend
@Syed Ali Raza:
@hasan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2RxlXCZKA
SIT BACK AND ENJOY!
Hydrogen fuel from Water using solar power.
Recommend
Hoodbhoy nailed all these self-made and ignorant so called “Journalists” who say the word of God now and whatever they say, Ignorant nation listens. I also feel pity for Pakistani Engineers who actually supported Agha Waqar. Even though i am not an engineer but my logic didn’t allow me to believe on Agha once but how can engineers believe on him? that is sad. That shows what we learn in our universties and colleges.
Recommend
Dear Author.
i read your article, and found interesting, with all due respect, i want to share some knowledge which i have about these water kit, this water kit word is not new for the world, its being implemented in many countries by the car owners, not commercially, but for self usage, and its running successfully. the theory behind this can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen
and also if you want to buy complete HHO (Water) Kit with complete guidance for your car you can easily found it by Google, just write “HHO KIT”.
The purpose of sharing this comment is just to inform the people that HHO fuel cells are exist,
science has no limit, its beyond the fiction.
(sorry for my grammar mistakes)
Thanks & Regards
Noman Ahmed Qureshi
Recommend
The whole idea of the water run car sounds too good to be true.whether it functions in accordance with the basic laws of physics or not,we will find out soon.But calling the guy a fraud even before investigating the supposedly water kit is not fair in my opinion. After all this person is not a an engineer or a scientist, he just holds a diploma. Its the duty of the engineers to review his invention and give their verdict.After all he demonstrated it on the national tv, passing judgements without examination is not fair even if the idea as foolish as this one .
Recommend
@Tanzeel People ‘believed’ the earth was round. People have ‘proven’ the law of thermodynamics. See the error in the premise on which your argument is based?
@hasan Hoodbhoy holds a doctorate in Physics and doesn’t need to use commercial search engines to investigate scientific truth and you being a student of science and I use the term student very loosely here shouldn’t use Google etc either
@Albert Aap kee logic ko salam.
Recommend
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fuelcell.shtml
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/futuretense/2012/05/hydrogenfuelcellvehiclesandtheobamaadministration_.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/fuel-cells.html
Pervaiz hood, dear i m not addressing u as prof or doctor b/c of the simple fact that u r totally ignorant about science. Hydrogen fuel cell technology is not new and cars running on water is not new technique. I have embedded some links, go and study them. This the research done by car manufacturing companies and US state dept of energy and after reading them , then give ur comments. I dnt know how u guys drag 2nd law of thermo here.
Recommend
Trying to undermine every true hero of Pakistan… eh Hoodbhoy?
Scientist Agha Waqar needs our support against the enemies of Pakistan!
Recommend
A very condescending article.Agha Khan may not have had his “years at MIT” but he has certainly contributed his time to the progress of the nation.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics only states that the creation of net energy is impossible in such an electrolysis governed reaction.A simpler way to reach this conclusion would be to look up the law of conservation of energy ; However, that’s a little common and might not confuse the people as much as the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Here’s what happens, you put petrol and you combust it with oxygen, the internal energy of the chemicals(reactants) changes/decreases and this lost energy=enthalapy change which drives the car.In the case of a water, the energy we supply is electric.Electrolysis is used to create Hydrogen gas which is combusted in place of petrol.Similarly, we do not create energy; we simply catalyse the conversion of energy from one form to another using electricity.
YOU GET HYDROGEN; YOU BURN IT ; YOU GET ENERGY.
Best of luck to Agha Khan and his team!
Recommend
I wish some day some Pakistani would also invent a kit making a body run from human fossil. Bravo Pakistani leaders and the Government !
Recommend
Why don’t we get that Mr. Agha Waqar has at least given new idea. If it is acknowledged by Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan, Dr. Samar Mubarak the most dignified and practical scientists then Pervez Hoodbhoy is not more competent then both of these scientists. Scientific laws change such as for few decades we were believing theory of evolution (Darwin) which became baseless after the appearance of genetics.The problem is in our country our few physics PhDs want to discourage this idea solely because Mr. Agha Waqar has done Diploma of engineering from Khairpur. If he has done BE from USA then this Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy would have written an article with lot of appreciation etc. Its like bill gates who did not have degree of software engineeringniversity even then they built Microsoft……….. only person who was ambitious about the software development, he had not a degree, remember Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy.
Why don’t we get a conference where all the engineers, scientists meet together and discuss this idea of water kit. The truth will be there.
Recommend
Simply, mathematical calculations were required to prove the guy wrong instead of using some abstract explanations based upon a law. Just mathematically prove that the energy required to split the water into oxygen and hydrogen is greater than the energy produced by igniting the two, hence the the guy is wrong, but still the word fraud is not suitable as this might not be his intentions.
Recommend
There is a saying that man needed God and he invented one but i dont agree with it.miracles happens but certainly not in this style. we in science still can not prove many things but atleast what is proved is proved with logic and experiment. frankly seems like a stunt planned by current government, this man and group will be killed sooner and later and blame would be that PPP had a break through in energy and someone got jealous and below it up. i am 100% sure this is a fraud to an extent that what is being claimed can not be true. i am just waiting to see how this turns up to be. I have not seen the video of demo of the scientists who saw this, i know no one from lums went to inspect. i know car was brought in and may be designed to give illusion that its working on pipes (by the way cng and hydrogen pipe can be just sui gas pipes). i am sure there is a higgen linkage to petrol to engine. this is all a big joke to the intelligence (what ever remian) in our country. May God help us. \but in the end i would like to say at least it has given us a hope, a supply of oxygen to our masses to breath at least for some time.
Recommend
Further to the comment, there are only two processes that can be explained one is fusion and other fission. If this guy invented what he claims to be, then dudes, we have a fission process replica.
Recommend
People,
The first law of thermodynamics pertaining to conservation of energy is NOT violated in this case as EVERYONE is ruling out water to be a source of Energy.
Cars run on hydrogen, they’ve been running in several countries.
Water, when broken down can be separated into hydrogen and oxygen. THAT hydrogen CAN be theoretically be used to power the car. The only question is if the power required to break the water (electrolysis) is small enough to regenerate via the car’s generator.
Recommend
There is a big difference between a law and a theory in science just as between reason and your belief. You can question a belief but not a fundamental law of science. That’s why theories may be upgraded in science but not the law. All the discoveries and inventions are bound to be based on a fundamental law except that of God. Now, we desperately need to make study of fundamental laws of science compulsory instead of Pak. Study and probe into the belief of our being a ‘nuclear armed country’ as our so called builder of the bomb sides with the pseudoscience. We must know as to really we can make a functional nuclear device on our own.
Recommend
As far as the program that I saw and with my little knowledge, Dr. Sammar did not seem to agree to the complete idea and he was continuously saying that there must be some other element involved or some formula which engineer waqar wants to keep private…. So I dont think he blindly accepted the idea….
Recommend
The only thing that comes to mind is that this man who comes from MIT and have taught in the relevant field for 14 years would not bother to go and do what Agha Waqar is asking everyone including Attaurehman i.e. “Please come on tele and prove me wrong with your expensive education”. This is the level of reluctance by our intelligentsia for finding truth. The writer is sneering at the whole Pakistani nation for day dreaming due to the energy crisis but he will not do what the right course of action would have been in any other country if such a thing had to happen ever. If Agha Waqar is yearning for cheap popularity as the writer claims, so is the writer for leaving everything aside and writing just an article to earn a few bucks from the paper. Another blunder that the writer makes in contrast with Mr. Attaurehman is that both are referring to two different laws of thermodynamics. Watch capital talk of July 31 on youtube.com. I am also of the view that this would be hardly possible especially because of the energy and circumstances required for electrolysis yet the way we are handling this issue is pathetic.
Recommend
@Zunaira:
Laws are not made by man. They are just discovered by us. Laws are the natural phenomenon which are made by nature not by any human. So if any one says that he has broken these laws then he is going against the nature.
Recommend
Its not even about the second law that is surprising to me, now I am not an engineering or physics student, but when I first heard of this, my first question was how is it that someone who found out a way to derive energy out of water isn’t getting any foreign attention, because there are hundreds of scientists that are trying to research the same subject for many years now, and how come it received no attention. I guess when we are in times of trouble we feel the need to ignore logical answers with miraculous beliefs.
Recommend
@hasan
Are you seriously kidding me? What kind of science are you studying? Joe’s Cell has definitively proven to be a scam by academics.
It is impossible to create a device running solely on water as fuel. Stop being stupid. The Second Law of Thermodynamics in inviolable.
Recommend
Agha Waqar has tried to convert car engine into steam engine by using electrical energy. Dr. A. Q Khan talked in Hamid Mir’s program like a lay man. He spent more time to indirectly abuse Dr. Samar by refering Thar coal projects.
Recommend
Our professor Hoodbhoy is highly respectable. But Prof. Hoodbhoy’s argument is valid if and only if this “inventor” claimed that the battery will electrolyze water- the generated gases will run the car, and by running the car the battery will be continuously charged. Hence the perpetual machine cycle. Only then, we can call it a perpetual machine. No process is 100% efficient. What Agha Waqar is not telling is the life of the battery, how often it will be charged externally to run the car? Hence there is some room for him to be genuine. There is no violation of any law of thermodynamics if the battery is being charged externally, when needed. Is this a feasible idea, that remains to be tested.
Recommend
@Farzana Versey:
good replyRecommend
And all these years i had thought that its the combustion of WATER that helps to move the mammoth Turbines at the Thermal Power Stations or was it???!!! And off-course Dr. AQ Khan and Dr. Sarmad are Dumb and Sir its only you and Dr. Atta the wise!!! Is it so? How can Dr. AQ khan not consider the ABC of physics and still develop an atomic bomb( though with a team)!?
Recommend
Mr Agha Waqar can be Zohra Fona of 2012.
Recommend
Good initiative Pervaiz Sb Sir. I am a Mechanical design engineer and since last three days i am trying best to teach emotional ignorant peoples about the scam of Agha sb on different blogs . The claim of Agha sb are all confusing from start, he says he is doing electrolysis of distilled water, using capacitors to trigger resonance and feeding hydrogen in standard engines to run it without modification, and best of all he is creating energy at least 75 times of input.
Beside the fact first law & second law cannot be violated, distilled water can’t be electrolyzed, capacitor don’t work on pure DC so they can’t generate wave form to create resonance. To run 30KW engine (cultus) it is required at least 100KW of hydrogen power which Agha sb is generating through electrolysis from a generator/battery on board which can deliver maximum 0.4KW. So he is generating 30KW from 0.4KW (more than 100% perpetual motion). Standard engines also cannot run on hydrogen without modification in aspiration system, ignition and valve timings. A standard cultus engine would consume 700gm of hydrogen to cover 40km but in Agha sb case it is consuming only 100gm. Every thing is marvelous.
It is not much concern that media has created a hype of some illusionist; it is more concerned that a person is raping science & engineering and we have much silence on other end. The degrees of scientists who favored the Agha should be rechecked
Recommend
@Saud:
first the link you quoted is from a blog. fraud in sceince is something not new. and japaneese are not the chose ones
Recommend
Professor hoodbhoy has a track record of criticizing things just for the sake of criticism. I ask him, have you personally witnessed the Engr. Agha Waqar’s demonstration? Or you are just another person who just want to earn cheap fame by just criticising things?
One can find many examples from history where uneducated amateurs did invent extraordinary things, either through trial and error, or merely by chance!
Recommend
@Mozart: The energy needed to break a single water molecule is much greater than the combustion heat energy released by a single hydrogen molecule when it burns in oxygen. So, it’s not viable commercially or economically.Recommend
@Tanzeel: Please get your facts straight. The belief in “flat earth” was never a law. Nor was it borne out by myriads of scientific experiments and inventions. The Laws of Thermodynamics are not as fragile as the Flat Earth Theory.
Recommend
How did A Q Khan even build nukes for Pakistan?
Watching his interview with Hamid Mir, it’s obvious that this guy is a fool. He maybe a fool, but he must be a good politician, otherwise he wouldn’t have achieved all the fame that he has today.
To Pakistanis A Q Khan is a Hero. To rational Pakistanis, A Q Khan is a fraud.
Recommend
Here is another guy in USA who did water as fuel back in 2008, Denny Klien.
his website
http://www.hytechapps.com/
and his demo of HHO in action in a FOX tv program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkwGnU
Every one knows electrolysis, but the catch is to do it in a way to produce results which can run engines.
Why can’t Agha do it ?
Recommend
What am confused about is the fact of so many people in here apprecitating what the writer has written. He has said notthing different to what Dr:Atta has said, explaning the law of thermo dynamics, and have challanged the engineer to test some generators. So whats the big deal init. Thats what Dr.Atta has said to the inventor of that kit.
Guys you need to relax. Rather than critsing him, the countrys scientist you need to accept the reality and the guy himself has accepted Dr.Atta challange.
You haters need to relax, sit back and wait what happens, and thumbs up for the write for writing such piece of crap, just shows where we actually stand as a nation!
Recommend
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: No, that is not why. I belong to the SAME backward are. But I am against it because it is physically impossible. At the very least there needs to be rigorous testing done before this can be believed.
Recommend
Those ,who believes that running a car 100 % on Water is a absurd joke,actually lives in the heavens of fool.They either have not bothered to research about it or just followed those scientist ,who even are not chemist with the exception of Dr Att-ur-Rehman,who appears to believe that Scientific Laws can not be wrong.This is truly unbelievable at first stance ,but believe me this technology existed seriously and have reproduced by many open source Engineers,but never evolved in the presence of Powerful Oil Mafia ,who rules the world Economy and have always suppressed use of Free Energy and Push those researchers and inventors into darkness ,who successfully Practically demonstrated their invention working.I strongly suggest to come up with some research before declaring it a Fraud.
Recommend
Hush, the trolls are watching and reading it too, they might try themselves and bingo, we will be at the mercy of India even for trickle of water. If AQ Khan OKd it then watch out others, they will be sending RAW,CIA, MOSSAD agents and of course don’t forget the Brits. What is with our people. they have stooped so low or just looking for any good news how fraudulent it could be. Can you guys sent one to me, I will be able to show off to the ignorant, uneducated Americans and say look what we got and you don’t. we are not only famous for terrorist but our cars runs by the water. Dr.Hoodbhoy, this nation don’t deserve you like they did not deserve Dr.Salam. Thank you for your services.
Recommend
Hoodbhoy,
I was expecting your’s reaction and there you are!
Brilliant slap on ghairat brigade and thier students runing in millions.
thanks and regards.
Recommend
One thing is certain though.
Pakistan is looking for quick fixes.
One guy talks of Pakistani flag on Lal Qila, another talks of eliminating corruption in 90 days and another talks of a car on water.
And Pakistanis buy them eagerly.
This is good news for Indian economy because as long as Pakistan looks for quick fixes, we don’t have to worry about them competing us in any field.
Recommend
Hoodbhoy is just jealous. He is probably a RAW agent out to spoil Pakista’n's image.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
plz listen to him The inventions of water kit might not be very new idea, but one can see a few phenomena in our nation 1. The extremist behaviour on both the sides i.e. Supporters and oppositions. I myself have listened to both the parties , half of Dr. Atta’s comments were technically correct when he was talking of adding electrolytes to water for hydrolysis, but when he started about the law of conservation of energy he touched upon a field which the” inventor” never touched or claimed. As the inventor is not very good in english so he could not pick the point and went on for arguements, 2. The holders of scientific thought r just blind followers of what some “Gora” said a few years back, and never have the courage to think scientifically or think out of the box. Scientific thinking is not about holding to some old thoughts because some one had won a nobel prize and his thoughts r not taken care of.
3. The water kit may or may not be the solution of our problems, but a lot of energy and resources r wasted just for the sack of nothing,,, let some other technical people join our “semi literate” engineer, who got educated in khyr pur,, the writer’s style of criticism looks like as if a person taught in oxford or harvard will come with revelations that will always be correct,, let other people join him and explore possibilities of extracting some hydrogen from water while partially some of the energy comes from traditional sources……
4. We as a nation r slaves of our own comfort zone,, let’s scientifically and technically evaluate the claims of the person and then decide, if I have learnt a law of thermodynamic 20 years back and tha Law has never helped me come with some new idea, let others who haven’t memorized that law challenge it and work on it.. Again I am not saying that this miracle has taken place, I myself doubt technially the hydrolysis process with out the addition of electrolytes into water, but let’s not blame people for fraud and fake things,, let the system test it,, if it works well and good otherwise continue search for other sources but to be ” Faqir of a Lakeer” is not the way of living nations,,
Recommend
My Question to Doctor sahab,
Sir have u seen that car
have u made sure that its running on bifuel technology instead of just hydrogen,
please take sometime out, and see the car yourself, inspect it, and the deploy the kit, and take a ride, …
and then please share your findings, without doing so, unfortunatelyRecommend
Hudbhoy says” Agha promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise”. Does really author know that he is exaggerating the claim. May be he is too emotional. Water knit experiements are available right on the net. May be hudbhoy had no time to search it before he wrote the lenghty rehtoric. So far as Atta Rehman ‘s point of view is concerned he has not physically seen the vehicle nor hudbhoy. I think, its not them but its their pseudo pride which is badly injured by water-knit inventor.
Recommend
This project will be claimed as a fraud and hence there will be again durgat of us (incl. politicians,scientists and journalists) in Meray mutabiq by Hasan nisar ………. Logo tayyar ho jayoo
Recommend
This person says “out media, our nation” seems pakistani then he must answer one thing why he is abroad and teaching western people? why not in pakistan?
.
.
I say when Einstein gave his theories whole Newton’s physics was fall in basket. may be he invented new thing,
Recommend
if you had any idea or any clue about a thermodynamic system you would not have written such a naive comment @Tanzeel:
Recommend
Professor Hoodhoby is my old teacher and colleague and a smart scientist. This is an excellent article and I expected him to do that. Their claim that cars runs purely on water is scientifically not correct. Energy can be converted from one form to another but can be created and this is the Law of conservation of energy. There are already cars running on hydrogen. Last year I was almost going to buy this manufactured by BMW. the only problem is that there are not too many places one can buy hydrogen fuel. These guys from Khairpur made a kit to make hydrogen by using the standard technique using a battery. Once the battery will run out than it needs charging and for that you need electricity. In reality the cars runs on battery but directly using electric motors is more efficient, and for that you need different cars which already are selling in the market too. Electric cars are good for environment but what we can do with millions of cars that are on the road. Well there technique may be a solution if properly implemented in a safe manner because hydrogen is quite unsafe. I do not agree with lofty claims of changing the basic laws of physics but I appreciate their effort in making kits that can be used instead of combustible gases to hydrogen which is good to reduce pollution. If the electricity is made by water or coal than it will be cheaper than petrol. It may be feasible to use these kits if properly designed and implemented just like we use CNG kits. I wish them good luck.
Recommend
Dear Prof Pervez Hoodbhoy,
I agree with what you have explained but its easy to humiliate. Can you please also publish an article in Express tribune an article about your contributions to science (Physics), number of PhD you produced during your carrier.
Recommend
for those looking for theories, here is one.
http://www.kodasplace.com/more/watermotors.html
nicely explains how to increase efficiency of electrolysis.
if one can make electrolysis very efficient, and produce enough hydrogen then keep in mind hydrogen oxygen are the rocket fuel. A 12V car battery can not produce enough power to move cars, however it can produce enough power to break apart hydrogen and oxygen. If this process is made efficient by adding other factors such as ultrasonic vibration and radio waves to the electrolysis, the entire process can be made efficient. If enough gas can be produced, then cars can run. Need more gas for bigger engines, use higher voltage batteries. It will be interesting to know the volume of gas produced and the volume required to run the engine. I guess this will be answered with time.
Recommend
The problem is not bout running the car on water fuel. The fundamental problem is that a machine cannot move perpetually without the use of outside force. Thats what the real problem. Also even 10 grade chemistry wil tell you that the electrrolysis of distilled water in not possible
Recommend
I remember i saw this concept of obtaining vast energy from water in the plot of the movie Chain Reaction starring Keanu Reeves, In which a scentist does discover cheap and non polluting energy from water and the govt puts a stop to this coz it doesnt want the oil companies to go bust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChainReaction(film)
Recommend
Guys! Pennsylvania State University scientist has confirmed that salt water can be burned when RF is applied to it. Here is the link to the National Geographic article.
Recommend
Well, this Water Kit fraud will go away like the posterior smell, but, what about the Pakistan’s Scientists, Ancors and the Politicians, can someone also whither them away in the same manner. Well written article, love it.
Recommend
@Tanzeel: There was no law “That the Earth was flat”. People of religion said that the Earth is flat and everyone believed it. A law of Physics is something that has to be clearly proven to be considered a law. Which all the existing laws have done.
Recommend
Copying from your link… ” At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it ” what is the JOKE here? self styled ? that he is trained in Khairpur? or he has claimed something which the rest of the world couldn’t do it? that shows how we rate our people and their efforts and thats the reason we are third world country… Author should have also provided a list of nations, countries and institutes which have license to claim something big and which will not SOUND LIKE A JOKE to him…. may be a US national with a degree from Howard or MIT has right to claim without sounding it like a JOKE..
Recommend
No surprise that people like Hoodbhoy and Att-ur-Rehman are against this guys inventions. These are the people who have never tested Engineer Waqar’s inventions and they may be a bit jealous because they could not produce such a thing but this chap from a small town did. I am astonished at the amount of support for Hoodbhoy’s article and goes to show how stupid and Ignorant the society has become. If it doesn’t go according to the Laws of physics so what? If this guy has invented some thing that can benefit the humanity then he should be supported and appreciated.
Recommend
Why do we Pakistanis believe in such unbelievable things? Answer is simple. We have been trained to blindly believe unquestioningly.
1) we believe that we have Arab ancestry with a culture distinct from our eastern neighbor.
2) we believe that our religion is peaceful (!) and every problem we have is created by hindus, jews, and Christians.
3) we believe that our version of our religion is the only true path and we are the true and pure country according to Allah.
All of these take some level of idiocy and ignorance to believe as the opposite is true in strong terms. Given this, not believing in thermodynamics is a small matter.
Recommend
Instead of pulling this chap to pieces, i challenge the decriers to search for this topic that was published in the 1960s in the UK , It was tried and tested at that time and featured on a well know TV program of that time, As far as i can remember is was hushed up very quickly, rights possibly bought by an oil company for obvious reasons.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
‘earth is flat’ was NOT a law. It was THEORY. Theories may be proven wrong. Name one law that is proven wrong.
Recommend
@Farzana Versey: “In India, we have many such ‘miracles’ – water spouting from deities/shrines.”
True but cabinet does not have 4 meetings to find a way to replicate such miracles, not do top ranked scientists affirm these miracles.
There is no harm that gthis man dreamed. But for the cabinet to meet 4 times based on this absurd dream? Really!
@Haris
Potential energygets converted to kinetic energy gets converted to electrical energy in the dam. There is no comparison between how electricity is generated in dams and how supposedly it is being generated in this car. The 2nd law of thermodyanmics is not violated by dam.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
Theories in science and in any domain can be challenged but not the laws since its proven theory. you should be aware that theories and laws are different not the same.
Recommend
I already knew that this could be fraud!
Recommend
Only time would tell who is right and who is wrong. Expectations have really been raised through media. But still Too many ambiguities. It will be a blunder if it turns to be fake.
Recommend
Laws aside, could someone explain whether the HHO gas produced can be combusted to an extent that would help run the car. Hypothetically speaking can one litre of water produce enough HHO to power a vehicle for 40 kilometres (say we used a HHO gas cylinder)? So far there’s references to theory and affirmation of them same, however, there’s no clarity on where the process should fail at a basic level. I presume it is implied that there isn’t enough energy being used or passed on to the water to produce HHO itself? Or it just can’t be produced?
I hope someone can answer the two points I have raised, thanks. Lastly, it’d be better that anyone who has an objection explains their points in the physical realm as well, instead of keeping their thoughts on the theoretical aspects alone. As someone who hates to pay for gas, this topic is like fresh air. I only worry that this may propel the prices of distilled water to the range of PKR. 100 or so in a matter of years!
Recommend
@HH:
A.Q. Khan is a trader not a scientist.
Recommend
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio:
Oh for God’s sake don’t make this a racial discrimination issue!
Recommend
@Tanzeel: The “Earth is flat” was NOT a law. It was a hypothesis (an untested claim).
Greeks knew back in the time of Aristotle (B.C) that the Earth was round.
The “earth was flat” came out in times of ignorance (dark ages, 9th century AD) and was a result of a bunch of people believing in a couple of idiots (much like what is happening here).
Recommend
didnt hoodbhoy himself believe the nuetrinos at CERN had broken the speed of light?
did that make him a ‘serious scientist’?
what a poor article. professor sahab explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics fully yeah? if we want to see fun to be poked at others we can go to the ‘religious’ section of the tribune.
Recommend
Looks like the writer has a couple of petrol pumps and CNG stations and is worried that they might close down because of the water kit invented by Agha Waqar. Why don’t you people just shut up and wait for couple of days. Time will tell for itself.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
Earth being flat was never a scientific law, it was a belief of ignorant man.
Recommend
While normally Prof Hoodbhoy comes out as an anti-religion hate monger but he is spot-on on this issue.
I would like to point out though that Agha Waqar is not only challenging 2nd law of thermodynamics as pointed out by Dr Hoodbhoy, he is also challenging the first law of thermodynamics.
Recommend
Hoodbhoy is a rude boy!
Recommend
@Zunaira: These are NOT man-made laws. These are natural laws discovered by man over years as and when mankind achieved enough knowledge and understanding, examples, Law of Gravitation, Law of Conservation of Mass (and Energy), Laws of Thermodynamics. In scientific terms ‘Law’ has a special meaning in scientific nomenclature, e.g. ‘Theory’, ‘Principle’. Once a theory passes certain scientific tests it becomes a universal Law and cannot be broken. An idea or device which claims to violate a scientific Law does not need to be examined. These Laws existed long before we existed on this planet/universe. For example, the Earth revolves around the Sun due to the Law of Gravitation and Laws of Motion.
Recommend
Can’t believe how dumb we Pakistanis are.. I am a Mechanical Engineering student studying abroad and let me assure you Mr. Waqar Ahmed is a total hoax.. The cars piston are synchronized with the specific rate of combustion of petrol.. That is the very reason you cannot put diesel, jet fuel or canola cooking oil in a petrol engine. How can you even think about putting hydrogen in there.
Recommend
I suspect that most of the comments praising H are his students flattering him in an effort to remain in his good book for marks or some other greed and due to this personal benefit talking against other scientists. I don’t know whether water-kit is a real thing or a fraud but the guy can be tested in a single day when he might have been asked to put his machine in H or AR’s car and drove him for a day with the presence of whole media but the response of AR, head of RESEARCH towards a new research is childish.On a personal note, I will again state that this guy and his water-kit may be a fraud but at the same time I don’t agree with H and AR about the violation of any law of physics. This I can discuss with both H and AR.
Recommend
well guys science is all about skeptism, If he is claiming it dont jump into conclusion whether he is fraud or not let him give time and space to prove himself by the way fraud doesnt stand long let him to prove himself or else he will be no where
Recommend
Thank you very much sir! You really spoke my heart out!
Recommend
Very well written by Dr Hoodbhoy except that the claimed invention violates the First Law of Thermodynamics which in basic layman terms is that you cannot get something out of nothing or input cannot exceed output. Very similar frauds have been exposed in several countries including USA and Japan.
More so this episode has also exposed our science icons who with their comments have demonstrated that they have no understanding of the basic laws of physics which are taught at the elementary level. We should seriously think about their qualifications (Dr.,Masters) and the positions they are enjoying.
Recommend
Running cars on water is no new discovery; buses are running on purely water engine in Canada for more ten years. l know running cars on purely water is possible and has been done. He is not fraud and stop going banana over this. Anyone with brains and knowledge of electronics and mechanics can easily reproduce this.
Recommend
Let me get this straight – we have a guy reasoning that he can make a car run by splitting water’s molecular bond via electrolysis and the engine can respond to any sort of situation in this. Its utterly stupid.. I will first talk about why. Any vehicle needs a reserve of fuel – be it a horse cart or a motor car, In this case we have a bubbling jug that is dispensing gas at atm pressure – no storage tank and we are supposed to buy that the engine can take it in and burn it efficiently under all conditions (the guy claims that he drove such a car) – HORSE POO. Everyone who has driven cheap box cars of the 70s and 80s with carburettors knows that the engine would falter if the fuel supply for the high throttle opening was reduced. And to use a gas in an engine that requires variable intake of fuel mandates that the gas be stored under pressure to raise volumetric efficiency (not a bubbling jug)
my second point – the 2nd law of thermodynamics – whoever here or in this world states that it can be broken is not dealing with a full deck of cards – in very very basic simplicity take the human body – its a fantastic machine – it takes energy to work it – lets say you feed on something that has X amount of energy – you then work out to spend X+X amount of energy – Now if you think the 2nd law is false then your body should not lose any of its reserve energy (body mass or fat if you please) if you eat less and work more.
If you experience that you lose body mass (reserve energy) if you eat less and work more then the law is true..
This fits into this discussion HOW – the energy required to break the bond of water molecule is higher than the resultant energy that the produced fuel will move machine with.
Recommend
Very well written by Dr. Hoodbhoy… except that this invention rather violates the First Law of Thermodynamics which in layman terms is that you can not get something out of nothing or the output can never exceed the input. Very similar frauds have been exposed in several countries including the USA and Japan.
More so this also exposes our science icons by demonstrating their lack of understanding of the basic laws of physics and puts a serious question on their qualifications (Dr, Masters). Just think of the trust and the responsibility they are carrying…
…we pray to Allah for this poor nation.
Recommend
Instead of calling it a fraud, i think Hoodbhoy should have challenged him in public to use water kit in his car to prove it. That would have sounded a fair deal. All the scientists, politicians, journalists, and car company’s representatives who saw the demo didnt call him a fraud. But unfortunately who have never seen the demo, they call the poor guy a fraud. It’s illogical and absurd.
i think people of Pakistan should be thankful to him that at least people are discussing on science instead of politics. it has triggered a new debate which is educational, good for students of science.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
If you would have done some research, the earth is flat was never a law, it was a belief held by ignorant people. The Earth not being flat fact has been known since the Greeks. And know Earth is round does not sound(it is in fact oblong) dumb because round things are prevalent in nature. You wont find straight lines in nature though.
Recommend
i think this is more disgraceful then the defeat of pakistan’s all wars.
Recommend
After listening to Dr. AQ Khan and other scientists, have a nagging doubt if Pakistan ever has nukes. Or is it the biggest biggest fraud pulled up toll now?
Recommend
Dr A Q KHAN was asked that the claimant might be having connection from the fuel tank. His reply was that ,” TANKI MEIN SORAKH KER DEIN”. No one will expect such a dumb answer from such a reputed scientist .I need to tell him , DR SAHIB,TANKI MEIN SORAKH KERNE KE ILAWA BHI TARIQA HAY.
Recommend
Wow, what a closed mind the author has. Only out of the box thinking leads to new inventions.
Recommend
Which this exposé of his utter ignorance of basic science, I wonder if AQ Khan is really the father of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb or he the step father? Maybe the real father of the bomb is not even in Pakistan or not even Pakistani.
Recommend
@Tanzeel:
“There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’”
That was a “religious” law and not a scientific law. The second law which the author quotes is a “scientific” law meaning its been proved by science many times over in different scenarios. Wonder why you didn’t notice this obvious difference or maybe you don’t want to since it might clash with some “holy” law or other?
Recommend
I was confirm about this news, So didnt pay any attention and was waiting for truth.
Recommend
@Albert:
“his failure to decipher what is so fraudulent about the kit, “
And what’s your evidence that the kit is not fraudulent since it doesn’t seem to obey any known laws of physics? Maybe the kit obeys holy laws which can only be deciphered by the “pious” among us.
Recommend
I hope you all remember gravity operated car made by a Pakistani fellow some time ago.
it had a similar media response, now where is it ?
Recommend
Pervez sb, i have always respected your opinions and respected dr Atta for his contributions to the promotion of higher Ed.
However, no matter how basic and inviolable the first law is and since the publicity Waqar has received is enormous I feel that someone like Atta should have refuted it practically. His conduct on camera was not nice even if correct.
It would be simpler if Atta walked up and tested it on camera and proved it to be fraudulent or inefficient. I would encourage you to do the same rather than writing an article saying what you have said. Even Mubarakmands conduct was better when he took a look at the device in person and then shared his doubts on the success in a polite and learned matter.
I believe that this fellow has something. It is not perpetual motion, it is not just the water and it may not be economical in totality. I also thinks that he lacks the ability and training to communicate what he had actually done. Do note that he does not claim perpetual motion.
Recommend
The educated among the awam are not gullible and stupid. The leaders wiith fake degrees are are GULLIBLE AND STUPID.
Recommend
I honestly doubt our nuclear bombs now. If AQ Khan has an intellect of a 4 year old, then I really can’t believe whether our bombs work or not.
Recommend
Prof. Hoodbhoy’s argument is valid if and only if this “inventor” claimed that the battery will electrolyze water- the gases will run the car, and by running the car the battery will be continuously charged. Only, then, we can call it a perpetual machine. No process is 100% efficient.
What Agha Waqar is not telling is the life of the battery, how often it has to be charged “externally” to run the car. Hence we should give Agha Waqar some benefit of doubt :-)
Recommend
Dear,
I dont he is right or wrong. but why you all guys are jumping over conclusion, no one has right to say him fraud, untill he is proven wrong.
Dont forget many theories and basic of science become wrong after many years.
The only thing that we need to do here is to adopt professional attitude and do scrutiny of his product, if it geniune , we should apprciate it, if it is fraud , we will kick him off with his product.
Recommend
Atleast he came up with a complete demonstration on National TV regarding his allegedly exaggerated claims what the writer is doing is much much worse !! Just sarcastic riduculing without having conducting any actual enquiries and asking for a self made critirion to be fullfilled with a prophecy of failure and it’s all being a fraud Just cause I Went To MIT !!
Not even a mention of How is the project conflicting the 2nd law and what is the scientific basis of your discord is immature and dipicts his superiority complex !!
Recommend
Michel Foucault, a prominent philosopher of twentieth century said, “No knowledge is objective”. To prove his statement he wrote more than three to four books and successfully elaborated the idea of the flow of knowledge in discourse. For centuries the speed of light was considered the highest travelling velocity but now science itself has enhanced that idea.
So instead of blaming others, try to think deeper into things and try to contribute something positive for this already energy starved nation.
What if this water kit theory gets proved wrong? It would still be a theory.
Recommend
There is no such thing as a scientific LAW. Everything is a probabilistic theory at best. Since time has not yet ended, any argument for a law “if A happens, then B happens” will always be 0.99999999999999999999 and never reach certainty point of 1.0, therefore never really achieving the point of it being a scientific “law”. There will always be a leap of faith. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Recommend