After Rehman Malik's efforts, Shia website unblocked

Published: July 18, 2012

Rehman Malik had directed the FIA to take legal action against those who posted objectionable material on the website. PHOTO: EXPRESS/FILE

ISLAMABAD: The Shia website which acts as a watch dog on sectarian murders in the country and had been banned last week, was made accessible early Thursday morning after Adviser to the Prime Minister on Interior Affairs Rehman Malik directed the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) to take legal action against those who posted objectionable material on the website.

Issuing directions, Malik warned all such elements to “remove objectionable material from the web pages immediately.”

He further directed the FIA Director General to submit a report in this regard after taking “necessary cognizance to such offence.”

Later in the evening, Malik tweeted from his verified account that in a communique, it had been “confirmed that my efforts have worked and the said web page(pakshia.com) has been unblocked.

Three hours after that tweet, the website was accessible once again.

The watchdog website Shiakilling.com was banned Saturday, almost a week after the regulatory body had blocked the official website of the Ahmadiyya community, which was unblocked later. The website kept track of murders of Shia community members, motivated by sectarian differences.

Visitors were greeted with a “this webpage is not available” sign as they tried to access the site.

Members of the Shia community had also protested against the ban in Karachi on Tuesday and had tried to make their way towards the office of the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA).

Episodes of violence against Shia Muslims in Pakistan have been on the rise recently, particularly the target killing of community members in Karachi and Hazaras in Balochistan.

Reader Comments (68)

  • Butt
    Jul 18, 2012 - 6:54PM

    Adviser to the Prime Minister on Interior Affairs Rehman Malik on Wednesday Directed the Federal Investigation Agency. An adviser can do that. Where is the Interior Minister? Ohhh job is still vacant.

    Recommend

  • afzaalkhan
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:00PM

    Finally good job Rehman Malik.

    Recommend

  • aladeen
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:08PM

    a vast majority of people of pakistan are silent on killing of shia muslims in country this apathy is quite shameful government should take action against terrorist then there would be no need for such sites to exist

    Recommend

  • check it out
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:16PM

    I quote Express Tribune’s news above
    “after the regulatory body had blocked the official website of the Ahmadiyya community, which was unblocked later.”
    but the fact is that alislam is still banned and is not accessible till date…to check go to http://www.alislam.org

    Recommend

  • SYED RIZVI
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:26PM

    I believe that instead of banning the website they should have blocked the killing of innocent shia community all across the country. I know that there are huge number of people whose unelected representative Afzal Khan has posted his comment on this news item and appreciate the action by Rehman Malik. The venom of so called jihad has reached its optimum level in Pakistan and shia are facing the consequences for no reason. I think there wont be any need for any such website if the media is going to give due coverage involving killing on sectarian ground and if the killing stops than who wants to run any such website. by the way so far today 16 shias have been killed so far, 13 of them them were targetting by taliaban in lower kurram agency and 1 have been targetted in Karachi. Recommend

  • Nasir Mahmood
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:30PM

    Is PEMRA under Rehman Malik?

    Recommend

  • Sad
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:33PM

    Plz just get kill. Dont count the bodies.
    Don
    t mention the name who is killing you and why?

    Recommend

  • saeed
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:37PM

    @aladeen…vast majority of Pakistanis are not silent only on shia killings..they are silent on any kind of killings..dont bring ethnicity..sects in this…Shame full thing to do that..Pakistanis are getting killed and Pakistanis are silent..

    Recommend

  • Rationalist
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:40PM

    Are these banned websites telling the truth? If so, why ban them? To hide the truth from the public? What was the “objectionable” material that they published?

    Recommend

  • Syed Azeem
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:46PM

    BIGOTRY

    They order crack down on website that exposes truth but nothing for the killers of shias

    Recommend

  • Mujtaba
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:47PM

    Note that the order is not to “investigate the ban on the Shia website” but “to investigate the banned Shia website”. Adding insult to injury …. while the Sipah-e Sahaba website calling for Shia persecution remains accessible!

    Recommend

  • Mujtaba
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:53PM

    Saeed sahab, Pakistani Shia Muslims are killed not because they are Pakistani or Muslim, but because they are Shia …. please ask the killers not to bring sects in this. Those now being killed because of their sect won’t do so either.

    Recommend

  • smj
    Jul 18, 2012 - 7:56PM

    You can shiakilling site as much as you want, and they will come up with a new domain to show the real face of who is behind these murders.

    Recommend

  • khalid
    Jul 18, 2012 - 8:09PM

    We are living in a small world,information travels faster than any thing else. Banning or selectively blocking the sites of oppressed Pakistanis will not serve any purposes. On the contrary it shows that some one in the high circles has an interest in continuous killings and persecution. !!!!
    Time has come to accept the reality that there is some thing wrong ,either in our way of thinking/our ideology or in the attitude of world community. Please let the people of Pakistan save their souls from these killers using the name of religion. And do not tell us that some one from outside i.e. RAW or Mosad is doing this. They are our sons of soil and right from their childhood they are being taught and train Recommend

  • Syed
    Jul 18, 2012 - 8:30PM

    We will have peace in Pakistan once there is Justice. No justice, no peace.

    What a sick and twisted group of people that kill innocents.

    Recommend

  • gp65
    Jul 18, 2012 - 8:31PM

    So LeJ and JuD’s hateful messages are Okay. A site that reports facts about kiling should not only be banned but also investigated. The definition of ‘minorities’ keeps expanding in Pakistan.

    Recommend

  • K Niaz
    Jul 18, 2012 - 8:41PM

    It is ok to target kill Shi’ites in Pakistan, and also ok for the media not to mention anything about it, rather turn a blind eye to it. But it is not Ok to keep a count of those who are getting killed every day. I admit that there are some gruesome video uploads. But what is more serious the gruesome manner in which Shias are slaughtered in Pakistan or showing it to its own community members.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 18, 2012 - 8:58PM

    @gp65:

    When you’ve exhumed all the mass graves of innocent Muslims in IOK, perhaps then you can log onto a Pakistani website and start giving sermons on religious tolerance. Until then, try smelling the filth that’s a little closer to home, because it’s a lot worse.

    Regarding this article – there are no words to describe the monstrous brutality of Pakistanis killing Pakistanis. I would be equally furious if it were ‘Sunni’ Muslims being targeted by ‘Shi’a’ Muslims, but the sad truth is that it’s almost always the other way around.

    Alongside a few select politicians, the religious leaders who are behiind these attacks should be the nation’s No.1 public enemy. It is heartbreaking that more often than not, though, they operate with state-sponsored impunity.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Usman Masood
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:02PM

    We need more tolerance. Pakistan has not only managed to sink its reputation, but has managed to sink Islams down with it as well.

    However, would love to know what exactly was the “objectionable materia”

    Recommend

  • kaalchakra
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:09PM

    Our first duty is to maintain harmony among ourselves. Exploiting a few unfortunate events in order to create greater divisions, generate hatred between sects and toward Pakistan is unacceptable. Everyone needs to behave properly otherwise there will be no peace. So as not to lose perspective, it is important to remember that more people die in accident everyday than in any of so-called killings.

    Recommend

  • Syed
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:11PM

    What i heard is that Rehman Malik directed FIA to take action against ‘Banned outfits websites’ not the shiakilling website!

    Recommend

  • kaalchakra
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:13PM

    gp65

    I second Hasan’s advice to you. Kindly mind your own business and stop interfering in the affairs of people who have nothing to do you.

    Recommend

  • Jul 18, 2012 - 9:47PM

    @Hasan:
    The hypocrisy is incredible. No wonder no one’s sympathetic. You have an Indian who just stated facts on anti-minority terrorist groups and made a very low key snide remark on state’s treatment of minorities , but instead you met out the programmed anti-India angry reaction and threw in the Kashmir card, which ironically has it’s own Shia-Sunni sectarian issues and mass graves.

    Not surprisingly your comment is ‘seconded’ by someone, in full glee of your anti-Indian reactionary attack, who downplays sectarianism or minority sectarian plight under the false cover of nationalist ‘unity’, himself, which favours the majority and excuses them from any culpability.

    Recommend

  • Kaspar
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:49PM

    The action is interesting on several counts. An advisor, as someone remarked above, hardly has the authority to “direct” a department to ‘investigate’ a website. Investigate for what? For exposing the truth and highlighting the incompetence of the administration?
    Secondly, the website is banned, but no action is ordered against the killers, who kill wantonly just out of hatred. They are self-avowed ‘jihdadis’ but they wage a jihad against fellow Muslims—after declaring them to be non-Muslims, perhaps. Who has given them the authority to decide who is Muslim and who is not?
    Thirdly, this so-called ‘advisor’ has taken an action that seeks to push the problem of wanton killing on sectarian grounds under the rug and thereby encourages the murderers. What kind of an ‘advisor’ is this, who holds British nationality, dupes the court after his removal from the Senate and the post of interior minister by becoming ‘interior advisor,’ and despite his colossal incompetence, is lauded by some unscrupulous elements for this preposterous action! Shame on the so-called ‘liberal’ PPP government that patronises this kind of advisors!

    Recommend

  • R.A
    Jul 18, 2012 - 9:59PM

    If you are honest and fair
    What about ban on Ahmadi website
    Recommend

  • Ahmad Anwar
    Jul 18, 2012 - 10:08PM

    egulatory body had blocked the official website of the Ahmadiyya community, which was unblocked later.

    As indicated earlier, this statement is not true. Ahmadiyya website AlIslam.org is still banned and blocked by PTA.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 18, 2012 - 10:41PM

    @bigsaf:

    The only thing incredible here is your woeful inability to read more than one paragraph.

    Consider this: NOWHERE in Pakistan have mass graves of religious minorities been found. NOWHERE in Pakistan have Chief Ministers and senior politicians from nationwide parties had an implicit hand in the massacres, mass-rapes and torture of whole minority neighbourhoods. NOWHERE in Pakistan has the destruction of a minority place of worship prompted an orgy of communal violence on the scale that has been seen several times throughout Hindustan’s brutal history.

    And then you have the nerve to call me a hypocrite?!

    Most of my post was in fact dedicated to the unspeakable tragedy of sectarian violence in Pakistan, but that is something for us Pakistanis to discuss amongst ourselves, and not for people like you or your little friend, who have bigger and wider-ranging problems than us. As a result, this whole post is just a tribute to your own blindness, in wading into a discussion in defence of yet another clueless Hindustani – all the while neglecting the harsh truth of what I posted in my reply.

    On a finishing note, it is just stupidity upon hypocrisy when you suggest that the Kashmir liberation struggle has its own ‘Shia-Sunni sectarian issues’. I have heard this lame argument from extremist Hindustanis before, and they have always fallen silent when I ask them how the bullets fired at unarmed schoolchildren can distinguish between Sunni and Shi’a. Your outlook is frankly disgusting.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Umer
    Jul 18, 2012 - 10:48PM

    @Hasan:

    Consider this: NOWHERE in Pakistan have mass graves of religious minorities been found.

    Issue is not mass graves but mass murders and there are plenty in Pakistan. Also state persecutes its own people ‘legally’ as the laws are discriminatory and/or are applied in a discriminatory fashion.

    NOWHERE in Pakistan have Chief Ministers and senior politicians from nationwide parties had an implicit hand in the massacres, mass-rapes and torture of whole minority neighbourhoods.

    Gojra massacre is just one example. There are more and government officials seek votes from banned group and even travel with them openly.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 18, 2012 - 11:16PM

    @Umer:

    Issue is not mass graves but mass murders and there are plenty in Pakistan. Also state persecutes its own people ‘legally’ as the laws are discriminatory and/or are applied in a discriminatory fashion.

    No, the issue is mass graves – and so far, there have been none found in Pakistan. Furthermore, the laws, although questionable, are not discriminatory – the injustice comes from the criminal levels of mismanagement in applying them fairly, to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

    Gojra massacre is just one example. There are more and government officials seek votes from banned group and even travel with them openly.

    Gojra was a shameful act of bestial savagery, but sadly it still falls into the shade of the rampages that have occurred in Hindustan. That is the simple fact that these guys and their cheerleaders are so reluctant to stomach; however horrified us Pakistanis are at the prospective degeneration of our society, we’re not about to listen to lectures from a country which sank to that level of sectarian brutality many years previously and shows no signs of recovery.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Umer
    Jul 18, 2012 - 11:31PM

    @Hasan:

    Noting you say makes any sense. Either you are not aware of the facts or you are just unable to comprehend. Murder is murder regardless of if those killed are found in graves or not. Mass murders continue unabated in Pakistan to this day and state favoured banned groups openly take responsibility for them too.

    Gora massacre was carried out by the notorious banned organisation and a political party. This is well documented.

    Recommend

  • Kanwal
    Jul 19, 2012 - 12:22AM

    Dear Mr Malik, pls answer this question: Have you and your friends unblocked the website because your ban became invalid after another website with the same material popped up? You just reallised you can stop information in this age to only a certain level? Hopefully this taught everybody a lesson, that is NEVER to try and inhibit victims’ voices in these times. Trying to save Government’s face, are we?
    I think you would better do your job (long shot) if you focused on finding the people behind the killings reported on this banned website AS WELL AS finding who was the intelligent brain behind this ban in the first place. I am confident you are never going to do this though.

    Recommend

  • abis
    Jul 19, 2012 - 12:28AM

    stop shia killings.. rather then banning shiakilling.com

    Recommend

  • Iqbal
    Jul 19, 2012 - 12:47AM

    Although I am a Muslim I fail to understand whether Islam is compatible with democracy or freedom of speech. If we think Islam is the best then why are we not putting that argument and debate defending it. Instead we are banning other people’s expression. When will we move into the 21st century – if we don’t then we are doomed.

    Recommend

  • Anoni
    Jul 19, 2012 - 1:58AM

    Let us all live in peace. It shouldn’t matter if we are sunni shia or ahmedi. We are all human first
    Recommend

  • kaalchakra
    Jul 19, 2012 - 4:15AM

    Totally unnecessary argumentation. The site is unblocked. Hope people will know better than to place objectionable and anti-Pakistan material on it again.

    Recommend

  • Jul 19, 2012 - 4:54AM

    @Hasan:
    Your first paragraph was unnecessary and excessive, making any sympathetic appeal thereafter weak and nothing more than pandering to a right-wing majority.

    I daily rail about sectarian bigotry, discrimination and violence in Pak, as it very much affects and concerns me. Its moot due to sabotage by conservative community members who indulge in intolerance themselves. Wake up to the reality of an open Internet where non-Pakistanis can comment on our problems.

    This story was never about Hindustan or Kashmir, but Pakistan. Your attack was frankly an indication of the resentment and derangement Pakistanis have against any Indian/Hindu. So averse and intolerant to an Indian poster’s pov, you couldn’t hold back the prejudice, using the same empty insincere ‘Kashmir’ chant, when we have local barbarity of our own.

    Believe it or not there are Muslims, including Shia Muslims in the Indian forces in Kashmir. Kashmiri kids are shot, therefore disproves sectarianism in Kashmir? Huh?! Just totally one track mind. So yes, it is hypocrisy, of right-wing nationalist Shia Muslim Pakistanis who are part and parcel of the ideological failure, sharing the same intolerant bigoted views and complacency in the anti-Hind rhetoric giving rise to violent Jihadist elements. The rest simply traded a Hindu hegemony for a Sunni hegemony with Wahhabi/Salafi/Deoband leanings.

    Recommend

  • Jul 19, 2012 - 5:10AM

    @kaalchakra:

    The argumentation and highlighting of the issue is what has helped the unblock, if true. Spare us the bigoted lecturing.

    There was nothing objectionable or anti-Pakistan about the website, which highlighted anti-Shia sectarian cleansing by Wahhabi/Salafi/Deoband/Sunni Islamist militants. Its hypocrisy and outrageous considering websites of sectarian terrorists’ like ASWJ/L-e-J are up. This was clearly anti-minority discrimination and censorship abuse by a set of prejudiced thin-skinned majority nationalist officials.

    Recommend

  • Faraz
    Jul 19, 2012 - 7:15AM

    @saeed:
    Shias are being killed and we should raise our voice. I am a Sunni Muslim, shame on people like you who fail to acknowledge the problem and try to brush it under the carpet.

    Recommend

  • Mujtaba
    Jul 19, 2012 - 8:08AM

    The site remains blocked despite false tweets by Mr. Malik which has been reported apparently without cross-checking by ET. This is the message one continues to get when trying to access the website through more than one ISPs:

    “This page has been blocked as per the directives of Pakistan Telecommunication Authority. Please consult PTA if you have any query.”

    Recommend

  • USMAN786
    Jul 19, 2012 - 9:10AM

    Please donot spread haterd and make Taliban successful

    Recommend

  • MAD
    Jul 19, 2012 - 10:34AM

    @Butt: He is an advisor with the status of minister. plus FIA reports to the Interior MInistry. He actually can order them around.

    Recommend

  • MoLM
    Jul 19, 2012 - 12:59PM

    @check it out:
    The website opened for me…try again.

    Recommend

  • Faiza
    Jul 19, 2012 - 1:56PM

    @USMAN786: Do you have a bird brain?

    Recommend

  • hairaaan
    Jul 19, 2012 - 5:41PM

    Please note: alislam is still banned and is not accessible till date…to check go to http://www.alislam.org

    Recommend

  • Marxism4Pakistan.
    Jul 19, 2012 - 6:20PM

    All bans on websites should be removed. Freedom of speech and expression is our right.

    Recommend

  • Ali
    Jul 19, 2012 - 8:07PM

    Also, why ban Ahmedi websites? If we are true, we should not be afraid.

    Recommend

  • Syed
    Jul 19, 2012 - 8:32PM

    Also find out who blocked it in the first place and fire that person.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 19, 2012 - 8:52PM

    @Umer:

    Now you’re just being a simple-minded cheerleader. You’re boring me with your ‘murder is murder’ routine, when quite clearly there are varying scales of murder – for example, the presence of mass graves (through the efforts of international agencies rather than the Hindustani government) in IOK shows a deliberate and systematic organisation behind the killings. The fact that you are trying to compare this to Gojra, which is the closest equivalent you could come up with, is just farcical. Gojra was a horrific incident by our standards, because Pakistanis were killed by Pakistanis. Try doing some basic research into the many communal pogroms that have taken place in your beloved Hindustan and you’ll learn that the minorities had to suffer far more than simply a violent death, particularly the women and children.

    To be honest, everything I have told you is actually quite simple to understand, and if you’re lacking the mental capability to absorb it, you really are just wasting my time.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 19, 2012 - 9:15PM

    @bigsaf:

    Who in the world cares about your sympathy?! Do you think the people posting comments here hold your sympathy in the same regard as you do? You honestly think that’s what these comments are for?

    LOL @ ‘pandering to a right-wing majority’ – it’s always dangerous when people like you pick up these kinds of phrases from TV. For a start, I’m not sure how it’s pandering to the right-wing for me to condemn the senseless sectarian brutality in Pakistan, as well as Hindustan (that’s right, ‘open internet’ works both ways). Secondly, if it’s a majority, these kinds of massacres would be happening across Pakistan on a scale that would make even your beloved Hindustanis blush – and unfortunately for you, that simply isn’t the case.

    Again, you lecture me about your personal sensitivities around the treatment of minorities in
    Pakistan – well wake up and take a look around, this whole board is filled with people who care. What exactly makes you stand out from them? And at what point have I made any comments against Hindus? If I’m the one deranged, we need a new word for a person like you, who in your delusional hysteria is making up allegations without a shred of credibility. If you tried pulling your head out of the sand and actually applying your nauseating logic objectively, you would also be questioning why a Hindustani saw fit to wade in and pass a cheap comment about Pakistan’s religious tensions in the first place, despite the fact that Hindustan has been an historical byword for communal injustice since Partition.

    Your last paragraph is basically mindless rambling nonsense, replete with BJP buzzwords like ‘right-wing Shia nationalist’ and ‘Deobandi/Salafist leanings’. All of this is an odious smokescreen to mask what I stated from the outset; bullets pumped into crowds of protesters are indiscriminate, and Sunnis and Shi’as suffer alike. Your point about there being Shi’as in the Hindustani army is idiotic beyond words; for example, the Amritsar massacre of 1919 was carried out largely by Indian troops, but the crime was a British one nonetheless as it was based on British directives. If you fail to grasp such a blatant and simple concept, you really are out of your league even pretending to have a discussion here.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • JB-Haider
    Jul 19, 2012 - 11:47PM

    Ban Shia Killing, not the Website..

    Recommend

  • alMadani
    Jul 20, 2012 - 1:51AM

    Its no mystry that the the security agencies in pakistan have given safe haven to american interest more than the national interests of our country and our people. The government is the lesser evil of the two. In an event of securing the interests of the real power in pakistan (the agency) the establishment has shook hands with the same group of people who it banned & demonized not to long ago upon American instructions. A group and ideology that has killed more muslims than any non-muslims all over the world and yet are the sole claimants of the pleasure of God while bringing more pleasure to the American foriegn policy(Which is Isreal policy in reality). The establishment is making a big mistake in shaking hands with these terrorists over the blood of shia muslims and also some sunni muslims who appose them. Banning a shia website that raises voice for its life while supporting those who kill them and keeping alive their website that constantly provokes killing of shias every day could be disgracefull, but more disgracefull when neutral people become silent about it. Establishment of Pakistan… pls know that america will wipe you off if they need you no more, weather you kiss their feet or rais your sword against them. No fake terrorist guested movements like “Defence of pakistan council” will save you. The only thing that will bring pakistan up would be the trust of the people in your leadership. No Justice no trust, No trust no security.

    Recommend

  • kaalchakra
    Jul 20, 2012 - 3:29AM

    Hasan’s point is well-made. Given that some people never miss a chance to lecture Pakistan over the smallest of issues, while ignoring the far far bigger problems in India and elsewhere, one can’t but suspect that BJP/RSS/ShivSena members are freely postng here using Pakistani sounding names.

    Recommend

  • Ahmadi Muslim
    Jul 20, 2012 - 3:34AM

    And yeah alislam.org is still banned.. The only difference is we didn’t take it to the roads and protest as it has been our tradition.. As always the Pakistani government proves it again that unless someone threatens them and steps on their tails, they are not ready to backtrack from their spiteful and unjust decisions.. Bravo CJ.. Bravo Pakistan!

    Btw just to add a useful piece of Information, a way to open the website is to write down https://alislam.org… That would solve any problem an aspiring learner is having while accessing the website.. Sadly the mullahs still continue to live 1400 years back unaware of the fact that there are a million proxies available here and 100′s of substitute web addresses can easily be made to access the same content!

    Recommend

  • Syed
    Jul 20, 2012 - 6:52PM

    kaalchakra

    I can’t really speak my mind here as my post will most likely get deleted. Shia killings is the biggest issue as far as the 20% Pakistani population is concerned. To you and your friends it might be a small issue but your talibans groups are not just killing a single person, they are destroying families. I also say to not ban the shiakilling website but to ban the shia killing in Pakistan. Unfortunately our goverment doesn’t care too much and our army and agencies have given these killer safe havens. I know much more about this topic than you so do some research and educate yourself. These killers can’t kill so easily if they didn’t have the protection and support of important players in Pakistan.

    Recommend

  • Jul 20, 2012 - 10:37PM

    @Hasan:

    Step back. You don’t care about sympathy, I do. Comments have different views and purposes, and not yours only. You condemned sectarianism all right, but first you put on a rhetorical show, a deflection, attacking a Hindu poster, not really sincerely discussing Kashmir or issue in India.

    Killings and massacres ARE happening around Pak, since the 80′s, as an agenda of sectarian cleansing, and the whole point of the desperate Shia Killing website. Hazaras, Hangu, Gilgit-Baltistan, Parachinar, Kurram Agency, Quetta, Karachi, DIK, DGK, etc. But in typical Pakistani ego fashion you want to ‘compare’ or claim ‘look, look, at India what they do’. It’s pathetic. Take another look. Even in an English liberal news site, there aren’t only denialists, but those who cheer the ban and who are openly anti-Shia besides other bigotries. What made gp65 stand out to you? Your prejudice of his Hindustani background. No, I wouldn’t be steeped in anti-Indian angst, and cheapen the Kashmir card, when they pass a ‘cheap comment’, which actually was correct and very minor slight. Not logic, but defensive and reactionary ‘internal matter’.

    Right-wing BJP still woo the Muslim vote bank, including Shias, I highly doubt that would be their buzzword. Read academics on Wahhabis, Salafis, Deobandis and a Sunni mainstream adopting such beliefs. No one denies Kashmir abuses. But you dragged an unrelated issue simply to attack an Indian and nothing else. There are Shia Kashmiris who want liberation, but as you obsess on one enemy you fail to note the other threat they face which includes sectarianism within, bad enough that many don’t protest united with their majority Sunni counterparts. Unmarked graves (mass marked graves in Chillas apparently ‘civil’, damn you Indians are worse!). Shot protesters (protesters in Baluchistan are shot, but damn you Indians are worse!). All you suggest is nothing more than illogical defensive blind nationalist emotional rhetoric and deflection. I suggest reading Syed’s comment as he tells it as it is to your fanboy, kaalchakra.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 21, 2012 - 6:56PM

    @bigsaf:

    So you’ve been reading these comments and scoring them on sympathy…don’t be so surprised when you’re brought up on such a naive and pointless exercise.

    Again, I have to stress…your sympathy is of zero value, not just to me but to the Shi’as of Pakistan also. But ultimately, their plight is of no real concern to you, because your chief priority is to come along and tread over the thoughts and opinions of others – most of whom voiced your own indignation long before you did – and insist that YOU, and only you, are the one who is truly aggrieved. It is duplicitous, it is obnoxious, and worst of all, it’s a sad cliche.

    I have my own views on the subject matter, and for the third time now, I’m referring to you to the bulk of my first post – but ironically, you have wilfully detracted from the actual issue through your loyal, servile defence of the Hindustani who started this all in the first place with such stupid hypocrisy. If you somehow think that your manufactured piety is going to strongarm me into reaffirming my grief for Pakistan’s minorities, just to satisfy your own ego, you are very much mistaken. On a side note, I’m curious to know why you keep insisting that your revered Hindustani friend is actually a Hindu – he/she could be Muslim, Sikh, Christian, etc.. But perhaps that would deprive you of the peculiar pleasure you get from accusing me of insulting Hindus. Oh, and while you’re busy looking up proof for your baseless statements, could you kindly point out some of the many comments here which are apparently dripping with anti-Shi’a bigotry? Or, perish the thought, are you once again just conjuring up a fantasy scenario to indulge in your own self-admiration?

    You genuinely don’t seem to realise the mindless futility of you comparing smaller outrages within Pakistan against the much larger ones in Hindustan. To compare Chillas and (parts of) Balochistan to Srinagar is a shameful mimickry of Hindustani uber-nationalists, and bears the same idiocy shown by news outlets which liken handfuls of Israeli casualties to whole neighbourhoods of Palestinians forcibly evicted and harassed off their land. One death is NOT the same as one hundred, one mass grave is NOT the same as ten, and one crushed protest is NOT the same as a permanent prison state. You know, it’s sad that your friend is probably laughing at you while you’ve dutifully volunteered yourself to defend all of Hindustan, but at least you’re showing me exactly what a ‘fanboy’ is.

    On a final note, the oppression of minorities in Pakistan did NOT begin in the 80s, not even close; mullahs were rousing mobs to murder Ahmedis in the streets of Lahore as far back as the early 50s. But that’s something for Pakistanis to discuss among themselves, and presumably is of little relevance to you in your quest for self-promotion anyway.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Jul 22, 2012 - 10:33AM

    @Hasan:
    So twisted, broke my fast. Not sure if you realize I’m Shia Pakistani and how bad you’ve botched your assumptions. Even if ‘the Hindustani’, instead of ‘Indian’ or gp65′s name, the mocking choice of words you repeat over and over – and lets face it, used on communal bias, as much you like to slyly and cheaply throw it back – were Muslim, Sikh, etc, you still attacked in typical anti-Indian zealousness. Full stop. I had no issue defending the user from the unfair attack, Hindu or otherwise, on the merit of their comment, as you demonized by association. Your distracting opening paragraph is what started it based on prejudiced retaliation. Simple. Sorry if you don’t get it.

    Read again. I said ‘..news site’, referring to all articles and posts on this whole website. But let’s analyze. There are 2 denialist posts here, such as Saeed and kaalchakra. There are anti-Shia bigoted comments, from common posters as Ali Tanoli or SaQiB, to name a few. Maybe your slow to pickup on sectarian prejudice in the comments or our society, but its no more fantasy than the existence of L-e-J in Pak. Or is that fantasy? Consider it perished.

    Incredible nationalist denial of our history and atrocities. Smaller outrages? As opposed to faux outrage? Pity this low bar, comparison mindset, where leanings distort the crimes on both sides of the border using false analogy. Israel,Palestine. Bravo. Do I throw in a Bengali card now? Just all over the place. We can arguably go back to ’47, ’49, But full blown state Shia sectarian violence and Wahhabification initialized in the 80′s in Pak’s history, despite past violent disputes even pre-47. Relevance and context, buddy. Nice attempt in trying to teach/preach, though. It is something I do discuss and would like to discuss. Thanks for inviting and furthering my ‘self-admiration’.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 27, 2012 - 8:39PM

    @bigsaf:

    I think we can safely say that you hardly needed much of an invite to indulge in ‘self-admiration’.

    I don’t have the time, energy or inclination to argue with you during Ramadan – over religion, of all issues – especially since you seem determined to compound your own egotistical tubthumping with an unspeakably myopic attempt to critique my own agenda. The simple fact of the matter is that while you have quite blithely told me a lot about yourself, such as your nationality, religious identity, and of course your one-man crusade of virtue against the scourge of sectarian prejudice in Pakistan (because let’s not forget,
    NOBODY here feels the same righteous anger as you do), you have virtually no knowledge about me. What you have cobbled together is really just a laughably subjective attempt to model me into a mindless fanatic; ‘let’s face it,’ you say, I’m displaying communal bias. Wow, ‘let’s face it’…that’s the basis of your calculus. Thank God we don’t live in a world where you would have had to show me a SINGLE concrete example of me displaying any sense of religious intolerance.

    Anyway, I have no intention of being lured into the trivial banality of discussing Bangladesh and Wahabification with you, knowing full well that each tangental argument is serving only to further dilute the point that I made in the first place. Hindustanis are a hypocritical, obnoxious people beset by innumerable crippling religio-societal detriments, and not one out of that horde of 1.2 billion has any right whatsoever to preach to Pakistanis about social harmony – or anything else for that matter. But the saddest (and yet most amusing) thought for me is that none of that had anything to do with you; indeed, it was a specific reply to another commentator. Had you focused on the bulk of the post (I know it must kill you inside to accept that it was indeed the bulk of the post) referring to my own opinion on Pakistan’s internal strife, you probably wouldn’t have had any reason to disagree with me in the first place.

    But hey…if we live in an age where our own Attorney-General can cite the apparent supremecy of Hindustani legal traditions over our own, why can’t we have home-grown Hindustani mascots like you outdoing your patrons in their defence?

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Jul 28, 2012 - 5:23AM

    @Hasan:
    Says the only guy who unnecessarily signs his posts with his name. No self-admiration or self-promotion there apparently. No time or energy? Funny, considering another useless and incoherent long rant. Still smarting after nearly a week? The whining and attacks. Its pathetic.

    Incredible how you don’t find your comments prejudiced or inflammatory. Imagine if replaced with different groups or Pakistanis/Americans. Unfortunate you can’t grasp it and got issues. You win. Hate all you want, but don’t expect an automatic pat on the head for ironically recognizing the other bigotry, as you lead off charged like that for everyone to read, and tarnish your own post, no matter the ‘focus’, ‘bulk’ or ‘whom it may concern’ and other ridiculous excuses. Mascots as opposed to an age of home-grown Pakistani bigots and militants? Sure…

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 28, 2012 - 9:11AM

    @bigsaf:

    LOL…that’s your trump card – I sign off with my name. Kudos, you’ve outdone yourself.

    Again, you’re not the first intellectually deprived keyboard commando to assure yourself that the object of your dull tirades is ‘smarting’, simply because you haven’t had a reply in a week. The fact that I still have the luxury of asking you the same questions that I asked you from the outset, and which you have failed with alarming regularity to address, means that I could go on like this endlessly. Indeed, the only feedback you have really offered is a regular insistence that you truly are the only person on the face of the planet who really connects with the disaffected minorities of Pakistan, and nobody else. LOL…well if that’s not ‘whining’, I’m not sure what is.

    Of course I win – this was hardly an epic battle, and my ‘victory’ only depended on a single factor: your inability to highlight my apparent lack of religious tolerance. Instead, you have now chosen to describe my comments as ‘inflammatory’. Yeah I can deal with that. I love bringing Hindustanis crashing down to earth, just like your venerated friend ‘gp65′ thought it would be fun to preach about religious harmony from across the border – only days before a fresh bout of communal violence in Hindustan broke out in Assam, resulting unsurprisingly in scores of dead Muslims. I can imagine that you’ll leap up faithfully like a plucky terrier and defend those excesses as well though, so please give it your best shot. I’ll be sitting here biting my fingernails in anticipation.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Jul 28, 2012 - 11:36PM

    @Hasan:
    Are you really this madly upset and egotistically insecure?

    You’ve been answered and addressed to, Hasan. You fail to comprehend and oblivious of your own bigotry. You win, because there’s no reasoning with a prejudiced person who lacks understanding, humility, stews in hateful, delusionally self-glorifying incoherent trollish long rants and spouts ignorant, false and twisted claims, with deflections and personal attacks.

    It’s Ramadhan. Please, exercise some better judgement instead of inflaming.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jul 29, 2012 - 9:24AM

    @bigsaf:

    I’m going to assume that you have failed spectacularly to recognise the glaring irony of coming up with a post like that, and signing off with an insipid caution against ‘inflaming’.

    I think you and I both know that I’m not even slightly upset, let alone ‘madly’ upset; Pakistan has suffered so many blights since Independence, and people like you are really just the most recent phenomenon. We have lost innumerable lives thanks to the existential hatred of our neighbour. Read up on the history of 1965, particularly the Hindustani ground invasion – officers would rip their ranks off their shoulders and dive under the treads of oncoming tanks clutching live grenades, just to defend ingrates like you. Our pilots risked their lives day after day to keep Pakistan intact, and contrary to your ignorance, they weren’t bigoted fanatics – some of them weren’t even Muslim. Cecil Choudhary, Eric Hall, these people fought against the bestial aggression of Hindustan to defend a nation – and frankly their legacy dwarves any kind of sectarian agenda you may have. You’ll go away and convince yourself that I’m a bigot, because it’ll shore up your perception of yourself as a righteous bastion of tolerance and honour – that doesn’t upset me in the least bit, because your beloved Hindustanis were murdering us long before our own twisted mullahs could even provoke a religious riot.

    HasanRecommend

  • Jul 29, 2012 - 11:03PM

    @Hasan:

    You are very clearly upset on the topic and did not enjoy being labelled, Hasan, hence the aimless rants and personal attacks.

    I’m aware of our incredible ’65 history, soldiers and relatives role in it. I’m also aware of the ill-fated operations that lead up to it. And decades of mindless violent policies in obsessed revenge thereafter, not mentioned in revisionist, out-of-context ultra-nationalist exploitive emotional blackmail propaganda used by delusional right-wing zealots as excuses to justify and feed the perpetual hate.

    We’re in the present now and like to address the ‘sectarian agenda’, militant and minority issues, which is tarnishing our legacy, as the country is in a mess. Striving for a bit of tolerance and civility, instead of being irrationally paralyzed by a reactionary regressive hegemonic majority, exploiting history, pre-occupied in infinite angst and paranoia against every citizen across the border, let alone our own.

    Recommend

  • Just a smiling visitant here to share the adore (:, btw outstanding pattern .Recommend

  • Hasan
    Aug 7, 2012 - 10:27PM

    @bigsaf:

    Hiding behind illusions of your own perceived acerbity won’t do you any favours, nor will impressing yourself with outdated postgraduate political lexicon.

    It’s amusing how in the middle of your quixotic tirade against revisionist, ultra-nationalist (blah bah blah) invective, you didn’t seem to acknowledge the fact that the ’65 victory was won in the name of Pakistan, rather than the crazy, demented mullahs whom you insist are the nemisis to your own unparallelled virtue. In fact a cursory scan through your whole paragraph only serves to reinforce my initial suspicion that you actually have a woefully poor knowledge of the history of Pakistan, as well as the resounding effect that non-Muslims have had on it. Again, though, if I were to have the nerve to highlight the immense contribution of Ahmedis, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus to the 65 years of Pakistan’s existence, not to mention Shi’as who to this day are largely interwoven among the fabric of mainstream society, it would only fuel your peculiar ego, driven as it is by the perverse insistence that what I’m telling you is tantamount to religious fanaticism. It is only now out of sheer morbid curiosity that I feel inclined to ask you yet again to highlight exactly where I displayed even a hint of sectarian prejudice.

    Since you’re clearly hinging your self-esteem on the belief that you’ve upset me, go right ahead and tell yourself that, champ – but before you charge off into the sunset to swing your fists at thin air in the vain pretence of rectifying a national grievance, try to work out who your actual enemies are. I think it would be healthy for you.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Aug 9, 2012 - 4:22AM

    @Hasan:

    After a week to ‘ponder’, the usual return of more whining, personal attacks and aimless ranting. Speaking of impressing oneself with their lexicon and claiming to be not upset…

    Victory? I’ll side with Asghar Khan and other sane historians, than your text-book revisionist, ultra-nationalist blah blah delusional self-glorifying brainwashed blind patriot version. No surprise there’s no acknowledgement of operations Gibraltar or Grand Slam. Do you even know the words you use, Hasan? What relevancy (its 2012, btw) or context is? ’65 war in Pak’s name and not Mullah’s…huh?! Just incoherent and all over the place. You have the nerve to insincerely act like everything’s cool by highlighting minority contributions, while downplaying the historical and growing discrimination against them in the Pak state since.

    Its like getting health advice from a mentally ill patient. Spare me your deranged Faux News nationalist propaganda on who to demonize as my enemy. I know my enemies quite well, including local hypocrites, hawks and bigots.

    Recommend

  • Hasan
    Aug 13, 2012 - 5:42AM

    @bigsaf:

    I didn’t ‘ponder’ you – I just forgot about you. It could well happen again, so deal with it. It’s an unfortunate consequence of you diluting what minimal relevance your comments have with some truly juvenile levels of bluster.

    You’re dedicating more and more of your posts to reaffirming your fragile ego; it’s an alarming trend, and frankly one which doesn’t really warrant an answer. Like I told you, if conceding how badly you’ve upset me is what it takes to stop you spitting your dummy out again and again, I’m okay with that. I’m wounded on many levels, dude, I really am. Now let’s look at your post.

    Asghar Khan isn’t an historian, he’s the retired chief of the PAF and nothing less than a national hero. But that’s neither here nor there, because you’re basically just waffling. The ’65 war began when Hindustan transgressed the internationally-recognised border with Pakistan and started strafing passenger trains in Lahore; the aim of the invaders, as stated
    by their own commanders, was ‘to be drinking tea in Lahore gymkhana’ by 6th September. They failed, we won. Your five-minute Wiki searches on Gibraltar and Grand Slam are meaningless, as they dealt with an offensive strategy in IOK – recognised as disputed territory. I have to dedicate a whole paragraph of my reply just to teach you some history…now THAT upsets me.

    As for the context of the ’65 war, well it’s simple enough to understand – but since you’ve made a complete hash of understanding virtually anything so far, let me spell it out. While you’ve been throwing yourself spiritedly to the defence of Hindustan, I’ve been making it clear to you that this seething mass of 1.2 billion hypocrites has been fuelled by the notion that one day Pakistan, and Jinnah’s legacy, will be engulfed by the mythical ‘Akhand Bharat’. Hindustan’s hatred for Pakistan precedes the birth of the actual country, and that has been adequately manifested since 1947 and even before. You’ve emerged from whatever pseudo-intellectual plain it is that people like you come from, and tried to force me into some comforting pigeon-hole in which all nationalists are also ultra-religious, puritanical Deobandi/Wahhabi/Salafi zealots, or whatever phrase it is that seems to excite you so much. The sad truth is that history doesn’t serve to support your rants – our wars were fought by Pakistanis, regardless of religion or creed. And now you’re wondering how else you can get attention, since there is virtually no evidence from me or any other users here of the crippling, devastating, all-consuming, streets-red-with-blood hatred of minorities which you have decided to take up as your pet project.

    What’s even sadder is that you eliminated the last vestiges of your sincerity by spending so much time and energy bleating on about my riposte to someone else, rather than acknowledging the truth that’s staring you in the face – that virtually all the messages from Pakistanis spoke out unequivocally against minority discrimination, mine included. I’m fascinated to see how long you can go on without finally dealing with that; I can imagine it’s a bitter pill to swallow, but the healthy ones usually are.

    Hasan

    Recommend

  • Aug 14, 2012 - 11:40PM

    @Hasan:
    History does not favour you, no matter how long you incoherently rant in delusional denialism, remaining trapped in ’65. You were criticized for anti-Indian bigotry, no matter how hard you try to justify or deflect. Truth? Such incredible dishonesty and ignorance, making the latter half of your first comment suspicious insincere rhetoric. Not all Pakistani commentators on this relatively liberal news-site condemn anti-minority discrimination and violence, seen in the comments on many articles here, such as the recent Youm-i-Ali procession. The haters and bigots are obvious, so there’s not much attention to gain.

    Your condescending prejudice is not surprising. ‘Sectarian agenda’, ‘pet project’? I’m a Shia Muslim and of course concerned with the obvious evidence of anti-Shia sentiment which affects me, which you now seem to clearly be in denial of, contradicting your initial claims. I’ll deal with it just fine.Recommend

More in Pakistan