Sharif’s statement on Ahmadis angers clerics

Published: June 7, 2010

Wafaqul Madaris al Arabia asks PML-N chief to retract his statement

ISLAMABAD: Top leaders of an organisation representing Deobandi madrassas across the country have reprimanded PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif for calling members of the Ahmadiyya community as “brothers” of Muslims.

“Sharif should be ashamed of calling them brothers of Muslims,” said a statement issued by the Wafaqul Madaris al Arabia (WMA).

Sharif said in Lahore on Saturday that Ahmadis were as important citizens of Pakistan as people from other religions and called them an asset.

He made the statement to express solidarity with the Ahmadiyya community following last month’s two synchronised attacks on their places of worship in Lahore which claimed more than 80 lives with many more injured.

In a statement issued here on Sunday, leaders of the Wafaqul Madaris al Arabia – an umbrella organisation of more than 12,000 Deobandi madrassas – called Ahmadis “traitors”.

WMA leaders Maulana Salimullah Khan and Qari Hafeez Jahalindri urged Sharif to retract his statement and advised him not to “defy religion for petty political gains.”

The statement termed the Ahmadis as “infidels” and said that they could not be brothers of Muslims until they convert to Islam again.

Ahmadis were declared a minority under the 1973 constitution – a move that some people believe intensified hatred against Ahmadis.

Published in the Express Tribune, June 7th, 2010.

UPDATE: Leaders of Muttahida Tehrik-e-Khatm-e-Nabuwat said that the Lahore attacks were a conspiracy to repeal laws against Ahmadis.

Reader Comments (72)

  • Muhammad Aasim
    Jun 7, 2010 - 11:34AM

    Don’t Mr. Sharif know regarding the ordinance passed in National Assembly?Recommend

  • Jun 7, 2010 - 11:44AM

    I hope Mr. Nawaz Sharif and his brother realize that “let Allah be the judge” and don’t not become a tool for these worthless “mullahs”. We can agree to disagree in a peaceful manner without picking up the axes. Let me remind the peaceful people of Pakistan that this is a 21st century and there should be no place for violence in this beautiful country of ours.Recommend

  • zahid shahab
    Jun 7, 2010 - 12:37PM

    @muhammad asim: what do you mean by sharif knowing about the ordinance in the national assembly?!?! if you are referring to the ordinance that declares ahmadis as non-muslims, then it should be ripped apart. who gives anyone whether it be the government or a leader or any ordinary human being to declare someone non-muslim?!!

    like this new fad of judging people is so ridiculous. everybody decides to become god and starts to judge others. absolutely ridiculous!!Recommend

  • Haqim
    Jun 7, 2010 - 12:58PM

    It’s a shame that even otherwise educated and learned people become so narrow-eyed ones they see another opinion in religious matters in Pakistan.

    Don’t forget, these Deobandi and other champion of Islam mullahs opposed the very idea of Pakistan and fought hard against its creation. They called Quaid-e-Azam (founder of Pakistan) names like kafir-e-Azam (the chief disbeliever) and Pakistan (literally: land of the pure) as Palidistan (Urdu: land of the impures) . These same people and their followers present themselves as real muslim but in fact they are still acting against the principles of Pakistan and are harming the very basics of it’s existence.

    These people ignored the guide lines given to Pakistan by it’s founder who envisioned her to be a safe and free land not interested and interfering in faith of her citizens.

    Actually, we reap today what we sow yesterday.

    Hope Allah saves this country from total collapse since millions of people made sacrifice for it’s creation. Amen.Recommend

  • Anwar Ahmad
    Jun 7, 2010 - 2:08PM

    Aren’t we heading toward collective suicide?

    To save the country hate filled bunch of bigoted, coward hardliners so called ulema and religious leaders must learn the lesson off peaceful co-existance, tolerance and dialogue. Kill Kill Kill is going to lead us to total desruction.Recommend

  • Jun 7, 2010 - 2:34PM

    The New definition of a Muslim is:

    “If you are in a room with 10 people and all the 9 call themselves Muslim and unanimously declare you are not, then you are not a Muslim”

    “Then they say that you have left Islam and it is Lawful for you to be Killed”

    And whoso kills you, will go straight to Heaven no matter he has followed any commandments of the Holy Quran OR not.

    Then I wonder why such a big book was sent by Allah to Mankind with 114 Glorious chapters. 1 Page with 1 line of instruction was sufficient. Stating “Kill Infidels Go to Heaven” Recommend

  • Khalid Ahmad Khan
    Jun 7, 2010 - 3:05PM

    It is for Allah to judge what is in the hearts of men. No man is able to say what is in another man’s heart or to question another’s faith. No man is entitled to judge another man’s belief or conscience. Only God can look into a man’s soul and judge his faith.

    If a man recites the kalima and says he believes in Allah and his messenger, noone has any right to denounce him as a non-Muslim. To say otherwise defies Islamic teaching and the sayings of the prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him.

    I’m tired of sneering, self appointed bigots, whether Christian, Jew, or Muslim arrogating to themselves the authority to judge the faith of another. These are sanctimonious and intolerant, and discredit the beauty of the faiths that they purport to represent.

    If Ahmadis, Shia, Wahhabi, Sunnis, etc say they are Muslims, who are we to judge them? This obsession with denouncing others undermines us all and damages the country we love. Mr Sharif deserves praise and support for building bridges, rather than tearing them down. Allah bless him. Recommend

  • Jun 7, 2010 - 3:28PM

    As Salaam O Alikum,

    According the history of pakistan,when we are stand for Pakistan in 1947 then these socalled Mullah are worrest enimies of Pakistan.They are called “Paledistan”.Now these days we are living the Islamic Country. But where is islam and islamic laws.The all islamic laws only for all Ahmadies and it is very good service of islam that one muslim cant performs our prayers.
    In our country, All educated persons knows well about Molvies and all Ullama Hazraat who teachs against one muslim to an other for killing of thousands of innocent muslims like Ahl-e-Tasheeh and Ahmadies.
    In my openion,why all governments protect these kind of persons and parties.Everybody know that thay are spread harted and terrorism.
    Why government dont take any action about it becouse if someone tried to stop them then thay are began blackmailing on the name of islamic laws and started big voilance all our the country.
    Think about it deeply and tried to find my question’s answer with your naked eyes and use your brain wisely with positive thinking.I hope that someone can successfully find my question’s answer.Pray for our beautifull country.Recommend

  • farhan
    Jun 7, 2010 - 3:57PM

    Mr Sharif has rightly said that “Ahmedis” are our brothers. He didnt say “Ahmedis are brother of muslims”, so whats is the point which some conservatives are making against Mr Sharif.

    Ahmedis are indeed our brothers, whats is wrong with it. Some section of conservatives always try to suggest “please correct your lines about Islam”, as they ask Mr Sharif to read about Islam and then make such statements.

    I think we all should attend hardline madrassahs in our life to learn about “True Islam”, otherwise how ignorant are we to even take take the name of Islam.

    Though late, Mr Sharif is right of whatever he said about Ahmedis. I wonder why we muslims stop using our minds when it comes to Islam!Recommend

  • Jun 7, 2010 - 5:42PM

    Wow, the Saudi funded Madrassas now define what the word “brother” means. Lets just save everyone’s time and just hang ourselves. In due time, writing in english will also be blaspehmous, because English is not written in the same direction as Arabic.

    They say: WMA leaders Maulana Salimullah Khan and Qari Hafeez Jahalindri urged Sharif to retract his statement and advised him not to “defy religion for petty political gains.”

    Well they should stop using religion as a source of their power and influence. What would they be without there 12000 Madrassas? Recommend

  • Hasan
    Jun 7, 2010 - 5:43PM

    > Don’t Mr. Sharif know regarding the
    > ordinance passed in National Assembly?

    Since when any apartheid laws acceptable to good people whether in South Africa, Israel or India or anywhere else?Recommend

  • Jun 7, 2010 - 6:27PM

    We cannot divorce the present form of terrorism from religious extremism. The terrorists are a fruit of the tree called extremism. We need to uproot the tree, as otherwise the poisonous fruit will keep on growing.I strongly appreciate the comments of mian nawaz sharif.The deviation from the vision of the Quaid-e-Azam has been very costly. Today, the world sees us as a terrorists-making factory. We have mutilated the image of our religion, which for many has become a symbol of violence. The state should promote tolerance, not through empty utterances but by undoing the wrongs committed in the past. If we are to correct the wrongs, we must begin by getting our basics right.Recommend

  • Naseer Ahmad Nasir
    Jun 7, 2010 - 8:09PM

    Think the Power of Quran to promote Islam, Not by Politics. What about minorities. Give them right of living. Other wise countries where Muslims are minorities there people declare Muslims as Wajib Ul Katal.

    Think Positively about each Human Being. May be, Tomorrow most of you face descrimination in non Muslim countries by Non Muslims.
    Becuase, Every one get reward / revenge of ones doing in this world.

    Allah Helps Pakistan, Allah Helps Islam.Recommend

  • Imran Faris
    Jun 7, 2010 - 8:52PM

    Now its time to decide that we want to live as a nation or as a crowed, In many other countries different religion groups and different Nationalities are living as a Nation with harmony and love. And we should decide now we wants more killing here or want peace if we want peace so its only one way that we should all follow the address of our great leader Muhammad Ali Jinnah on August 11, 1947, to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly” “You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State… We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State… I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”Recommend

  • Rafaqat
    Jun 7, 2010 - 9:20PM

    We can’t ignore killing of innocent people in all over the world as a Muslim. In this all debate we all are ignoring education of the Holy Quran which says “whosoever killed a person …it shall be as if he had killed all mankind” (5:33) or, “And create not disorder in the earth” (7:57)
    My younger daughter she is 7 years old she asked me a quotation that Papa, Allah created all mankind so why they are killing each other? If you have any answer so please tell me? Because I don’t have any answer to tell her.Recommend

  • Bilal
    Jun 7, 2010 - 10:07PM

    The statement from WMA is very disappointing. After going through such massacre, we Ahmadis have shown patience as our dear homeland needs it. But I don’t know why WMA has shown such hatred against us. Despite of all brutal treatment and negation of basic human rights we never took advantage of the situation as we don’t have any political agenda, and we can’t destroy repute of the homeland we took part in achieving. But WMA should have considered what is need of the hour for our country and what type of attitude is supportive to national interest. May God show them the correct way.Recommend

  • Ali Haider
    Jun 8, 2010 - 12:46AM

    Thank you Mr Sharif for being bold enough to say this. Let the mullah’s say whatever they are saying. Who cares!Recommend

  • Muntazir
    Jun 8, 2010 - 12:59PM

    When we would grow up as a nation and tell these Mullahs to stop misusing Islam and zip it……..??? These people are spreading hatred continuously in the name of Islam through most of these 12000 madarassas. They are brainwashing young children and youth in these madaris who don’t get to get knowledge from any other source.Recommend

  • farhan
    Jun 8, 2010 - 1:34PM

    Mr Sharif should come up with some strong ideas to stop extremist-factories in south punjab instead of just lip-servicing. Its time to act against taliban infected sounth punjab -one of the best places in Pakistan to breed extremists owing to its under-development.

    Punjab government need to divert more funds to south punjab for schools immediately. More than half of the 7crore punjab population is vulnerable, and a potential ground to breed taliban’s islam.

    Who dont know the vulnerable position of Rahim yar khan and other south punjab cities where innocent pakistanis have been recuited by sipa-e-sahaba and lashkar-e-jhanvi, and this is still going on…….Recommend

  • Laila Khan
    Jun 8, 2010 - 2:47PM

    At Shahid Bangalore
    Excellent observation and well said.Recommend

  • Mir
    Jun 8, 2010 - 4:06PM

    Dear all, the National Assembly does not pass Ordinances; the President does.Recommend

  • Kamal Haider
    Jun 8, 2010 - 4:53PM

    Pakistan needs to allow Ahmadis to preach.

    Ahmadi+Preaching = understanding of real Islam and end of Terrorism in the name of Islam.Recommend

  • Hamza Baloch
    Jun 8, 2010 - 5:22PM

    this was a said incident,rather than speaking against those who done this “Ahmdis” start their famous propaganda against “mullah”,
    And said statment by NS, ahmdis are Pakistani no doubt but those are not our “brothers”.

    And those who think that we should not call them as a “non-muslim” … they also must now accotding to ahmdis, we are non muslim:|

    ref: Kalma tul Fasal Page 110 by Mirza Bashir Ahmad son of Mirza QadiyaniRecommend

  • Laila Khan
    Jun 8, 2010 - 7:03PM

    At Hamza Baloch

    firstly, I cant find the reference you provided, can you please give more information( maybe year of publication).

    Secondly, lets say ahmadies are not our brothers, so is it in your opinion then ok to kill them, even if they have not done anything to you? When Holy Prophet (saw) said whoever killed one person,…killed whole humankind…what did he mean by that? as neither at his time nor now the whole humankind is muslim?Recommend

  • Asim Kaleem
    Jun 8, 2010 - 8:00PM

    Every body living in Pakistan are brothers and sisters of each other regardless of the religion or sect. one’s belong ………. and Mr. Sharif did said the thing which is the indeed missing in our society …………. come on people think as human ……….. just Recommend

  • Amir
    Jun 8, 2010 - 8:12PM

    Right now I can sense that both Sharif brothers are running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Wait till tomorrow for an appology, and a retraction.

    Its time that our talkshow host and media get these two on TV and ask them to explain their concept of “Islam.”Recommend

  • Saif Hassan Siddiqui
    Jun 8, 2010 - 10:14PM

    A big WOW!!! to most of you. As a political figure, Mr. Sharif CAN NOT go against a Supreme Court verdict. It doesn’t have to be right or wrong, it just is. Why is it so difficult to understand?
    It’s not that I myself know everything, but I have been lucky enough to enjoy the company of some of Pakistan’s best minds, but most people who left comments here are ignorant about Islamic social and intellectual history. They are raised on modern “isms” like secularism, hamanism, relativism, etc, which do NOT submit to ANY higher principles, and have no idea what the Islamic legal stance on prophethood is. They have not read Ghazzali, Rumi, Mulla Sadra and Mir Damad, Juwayni, ibn Taymiyya, or any other scholar of note, and they are in no way cognizant of who a vast majority of contemporary ulama are, what they think and how they lead their lives, hence idiotic comments like “Mullahs being against the creation of Pakistan” and “where would these Mullahs be if there were no hard-line madrassahs”.
    Interestingly, the ignorance that is evident here is a toned-down reproduction of what FOX and its cronies spew. We have orphaned ourselves from our 1400-years-long intellectual and spiritual tradition. I ask you to stop using derogatory remarks against the ulama, and speak only when your opinion has moved from being what is “popular” to that which is “learned”. Recommend

  • Ibraheem A. M.
    Jun 9, 2010 - 12:00AM

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5514951/report_1953.pdf

    That is the Munir report which was made after the agitation against Ahmadis was started by the Ahrars post-partition. It quite clearly states who was against the creation of Pakistan and who wasn’t. Concerning the ulema. Those of yesteryear were head and shoulders better than the present variety. Who is it that prevents religious equality and freedom to everyone in Pakistan? The ulema. Certainly not the masses. The ulema are the ones who inflame passions, give out fatwas of kufr to anyone not following their brand of Islam, who say that Ahmadis are Wajib-ul-Qatal. Just consider that last point. The Qur’an says all life is sacred to the extent that killing one person is considered the murder of humanity. And yet they say “Kill Ahmadis and u go to heaven”. The very ulema are preaching something non-Islamic and anytime this is pointed out, someone always goes “you must be working for a foreign power for accusing out mullahs blah blah blah”.

    Pakistan is undergoing the same problems Medieval Europe went through when the Church imposed itself on the State. It took them centuries to get out of that quagmire and now it is out turn. Until the power of the Mullah to make the Govt conform to its wishes is broken, until they cant rouse dark passions in people and make them thoughtless savages looking for blood, until they actually learn the religion they claim to follow, Pakistan will always be steeped in the darkness it finds itself in. Recommend

  • Bangash
    Jun 9, 2010 - 1:43AM

    These hateful and disgusting clerics are always against tolerance, so why won’t they be against Mr Sharif’s statement ? I don’t like Nawaz Sharif but I appreciate this one act of statesmanship on his behalf.

    Mullah’s Pakistan is not wanted!Recommend

  • Amaar
    Jun 9, 2010 - 4:01AM

    An advice for Sharifs: Don’t be intimidated by these bullies and bigots.
    Redeem yourself by standing up to them.Recommend

  • haseeb
    Jun 9, 2010 - 9:25AM

    killing innocent is condemnable and forbidden in islam but asking them brothers who dont show that they are qadiyanis is also condemnableRecommend

  • Hamza Baloch
    Jun 9, 2010 - 9:39AM

    Laila Khan

    when i said that kill them? i did not said this. and i am also not saying that those are not Pakistani(even on their every platform they speak against Pakistan) but still they are Pakistan, and that incident of lhr was one a sad day for whole Pakistan not only for ahmdis…
    can you tell me who i post that screen shot of that book? i will show you that.Recommend

  • Athar
    Jun 9, 2010 - 10:08AM

    Everyone cannot be whatever he wants to be, for example, everyone cannot be a Swiss citizen no matter how many times he says he is one. Similarly, there is no messenger or prophet after Muhammad sallallahu-alyhi wa sallam. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad made those claims and had his own shariat. Therefore call it whatever, it is not what our prophet s.a.w taught (Hadith: there is no nabi after me). Therefore the Assembly vote you can dispute, but you cannot over-rule. The scholars simply agree with the vote in the assembly, Quadianism is a plot with full British support against Muslims. It is not Islam. Nobody is made a non-Mulim or a Muslim, they just become one or the other with their own beliefs. Also the scholars do not propose any violence as they only study Quran and Hadith. It is some elements who seem to have resources enough to commit crimes and not get caught. The scholars are not against the movement of Pakistan. Deobandis led the janazah of Quad e Azam, they would never do that if they believed he was kafir. If you want to judge anyone, judge by Quran and Sunnah. Beware of false propagada!!Recommend

  • Malik
    Jun 9, 2010 - 12:08PM

    I fully agree with Ather – for anyone to be a Muslim, he/ she must believe in the last messenger of Allah.

    if not, My question to all that are part of discussion – what is the criterion to be a Muslim?Recommend

  • Jun 9, 2010 - 12:55PM

    @Ather, Very well said…this essence of your whole comment was “If you want to judge anyone, judge by Quran and Sunnah” Now be honest here, where do you see Ahmadi Muslims going against the Holy Quran and Sunnah?
    “Quadianism is a plot with full British support against Muslims” O’ really I heard now we are labelled “agents of Israel”? I thought mullahs have retracted their previous allegations of “British Agents” since we say that Jesus Christ has passed away and is buried in Sri Nagar, Kashmir.
    And you falsely accused that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Of Qadian had his own “shriat”. Would you be kind enough to show us any new teachings in his “new shriat”? It might look “new” to you because you have been following blindly mullah brand Islam and forgot to look back what was the real Islam.Recommend

  • Hira Shah
    Jun 9, 2010 - 1:15PM

    this world is already over loaded with judgements and especially this part of the world. lets just STOP judging!!!! Allah almighty is there to do it all!!!Recommend

  • SZA
    Jun 9, 2010 - 1:23PM

    @ Athar,
    No one is arguing whether Ahmadis are muslim or not. This point is irrelevant. When the supreme court ruled that they are non-muslims that should be enough for all Pakistanis.

    The point here is the context based on which Nawaz Sharif called them brothers; 02 choices, either he meant brother in Islam or brothers as fellow citizens of Pakistan. I believe he called them brothers since they are equal citizens of Pakistan, therefore there should be no argument.Recommend

  • Faryal Tahir
    Jun 9, 2010 - 2:00PM

    What really leaves me in despair is the generalization of religion in Pakistan. Its an unending chain, you always try to put yourself in the safe circle of eternal forgiveness and this stay somehow ensures prediction of hell for me. May I humbly ask what Ayat of Koran connects your enjoyment with my misery?

    Why can’t a Hindu or Christian, Jew or for that matter an Ahamdi be a brother to Muslim? Since when relations are judged over religion? This absence of tolerance sometimes leads me to believe in the need of separation of religion and state.Recommend

  • Umayr Masud
    Jun 9, 2010 - 2:00PM

    Why can’t we just ignore it. The Mullah puppets are probably doing what they are being told to do.Recommend

  • Zainab
    Jun 9, 2010 - 2:02PM

    Donts he know yet??Recommend

  • Imran Ali
    Jun 9, 2010 - 2:14PM

    What he said is right. All Pakistanis citizens are equal.

    Now he should come forward and speak clearly about his links with Sipahe Sahaba/Lashar Janghvi or talibans.

    If he wants to alive in politics he must clear his policy for each issue.

    Right now he is scared!Recommend

  • Jun 9, 2010 - 2:29PM

    Constitution doesn’t give license to kill Ahmadi but it has rightly segregated them as minority because Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who claimed himself Mehdi incited the fitna.

    170 million muslims of Pakistan believe in finality of prophet, hence it was a need of time to subjugate Ahamdis claim of real muslims through constitution, otherwise Pakistan and majority of Pakistani’s claim of Islamic Republic of Pakistan automatically indirectly would have accepted Ahmadi’s claim of continuous prophet hood .

    We know lot of minorities exist in Pakistan like hindu, Christ etc and Since Ahmadi is the only non-muslim minority separately mentioned in Constitution due to their claims of Real Muslims, it is incumbent upon govt to provide them special protection, so that rule of Law prevails.

    Sharif statement is not bad if we call ahmadi as Pakistani brother, but definitely we cannot call Ahmadi as Muslim brothers.

    And guys please don’t be so irrational to Mullah every time with out knowing their majority, there wasn’t any suicide bombing and fatwa claims before 9/11 in Pakistan and even no suicide bombing in Iraq before America Invasion

    Kind Regards.Recommend

  • Concerned
    Jun 9, 2010 - 3:26PM

    I don’t get what the fuss is about but if Mullahs are outraged then it was surely a good statement from Nawaz Sharif. Keep it up Sharif brothers; more conduct like this and hopefully you will be able redeem yourselves soon and remove the stigma of pandering to the extremists. Recommend

  • Concerned
    Jun 9, 2010 - 3:28PM

    The completely unwarranted outrage of Mullahs at just the use of “brothers” shows how intolerant and parochial these so-called Islamic scholars are. Imagine what hell would have broken lose if Nawaz Sharif had suggested, as I believe, that Ahmadis are just one of many other sects of Islam.

    Absolutely agree with Bangash.

    “Mullah’s Pakistan is not wanted”

    The biggest danger for Pakistan–and even for true Islam in Pakistan– are these trigger-happy thugs masquerading as Mullahs and their thousands of madrassahs. Say NO to them and their ideology infused with hatred. Recommend

  • Javed
    Jun 9, 2010 - 3:47PM

    Mr. Sharif a Nada’n – most of the times a naïve person (a famous saying goes – Nada’n dost se dushman acha hota hai) made a shameful remark. I am afraid, how he can call a community ‘brother’ who are slow poisoning the spirit of Islam. Please do not extend any mercy for the sake of enlighten Islam to Sharif brothers, who after living (in exile for eight years) in the holy cities do not know Islam.Recommend

  • ahmad
    Jun 9, 2010 - 4:02PM

    @saif hassan

    Islam’s intellectual and social history is a misnomer. What you are talking about is the “arab” intellectual and social history.

    Arab intellectual and social history has contributed nothing for the last 1000 years. You mention scholars which lived over 1000 years ago. This civilization has been corrupt and has been defeated repeatedly for the past 1000 years mainly becuase it has followed these mullahs. There is not a single thing that this civilization has contributed towards the betterment of this world. Muslims are not capable of making a simple needle, going to the moon is a very distant dream for them.

    You need to wake up and look around. Some people say that War on Terror is a clash of civilisation, but i disagree. As Hasan Nisar pointed out that only one side has “civilization”, the other side (muslims) are not civilized at all. Poverty, Injustice etc are the order of the day in muslim countries, mainly because of this mullah mentality.Recommend

  • Usman Ahmad
    Jun 9, 2010 - 4:18PM

    On one hand the Mullah’s demand the world to respect Islam and be fair with the muslim world. But it’s ok when the Mullah’s are hateful towards other sect and believe system? Hypocrisy!Recommend

  • farhan
    Jun 9, 2010 - 4:35PM

    Lets open up everything! We are used to shutup all our mental faculties when it comes to Jihad, Sects, Muslims and non-muslims definition, etc.

    The massacre of Ahmedi brothers and sisters has given us (pakistanis) an opportunity to discuss every controvertial thing we heard around us in society. What result will we get? (Good qustion). Here is the answer.

    At least no one will be allowed to kill innocent humans in the name of Islam as we saw in last three decades.Recommend

  • Concerned
    Jun 9, 2010 - 5:29PM

    Say NO the bigots who condone the massacre of those they do not agree with. Mark my words: Today it is minority religions( Christians in Gojra) and minority sects( Ahmadis in Lahore, Shia Hazaras in Quetta, Shias in just about every city) who are being attacked; tomorrow it will be, you and me, the majority who do not completely subscribe to the bigotry of the self-appointed religious police and guardians. Extremism and intolerance are cancer for Pakistanis; don’t let them grow unfettered.Recommend

  • Jun 9, 2010 - 5:40PM

    If a person from other religion like Hindu or Christian will came to me and ask me to consider him as Muslim without changing his religion believe .can i consider him as Muslim Off course not . a person can not call Muslim until he read “ KALMA “ mean he initially believe that God is one and Muhammad P.B,U,H is last prophet of the God . I a modern muslim , yes all Pakistani have equal right no one have right to kill anyone . but these terrorist is killing Pakistani without an discrmantion thousand of muslim and non muslim were kill .
    A person can be Pakistani but for muslim he must believe on one God and Muhammad P.B,U,H is last prophet of the God .Recommend

  • pakistani
    Jun 9, 2010 - 5:40PM

    A lot has been said over this topic over the last few days, i have also done some perepheral reserach on this topic of Ahmedis. Dispassionately speaking, Ahmedi’s cannot be regarded as Muslims. They absolutely deny the finality of prophethood and make numerous additions. The lahori party of Ahmedi’s belive that Mirza Ghulam was not a prophet but a mujaddad so there are two differing views even inside the ahmmadaya community. Also, another contreversial issue is that when Ahmadi’s preach, they preach as muslims, which realistically is not a good move considering people burn shops over cartoons being published thousands of miles away. Now when I say this i must point out that i am not a bigot nor do i hate ahemdi’s in anyway. Some of my close friends are ahmedi’s. I feel constitutionally recognizing them as non-muslims is not a problem. Persecuting them on being non-muslims is a huge problem. It cannot be allowed under any circumstances. Unless we divorce relegion from state this will not stop not just for Ahmedi’s but also for other minorities.

    Regarding Mr. Sharif’s Statement, I think it is a positive move.Recommend

  • HR
    Jun 9, 2010 - 6:03PM

    May I know what the Arab template of Islam and Wafaqul Madaris al Arabia (WMA) are doing in Pakistan when Pakistanis are all but unwelcome in holy Arabia? In the hierarchy of expatriates throughout the Persian Gulf and the Middle East, white skinned people are regaled as almost royalty, paid as they are often several times that darker skinned mere mortals get (however Westerners in general and those working in the Mideast in particular are often highly skilled and have commendable work ethics so it is perhaps alright). In the last category of the hierarchy of expats are, no surprises there, Pakistanis, who are unabashedly frowned upon by the locals, discriminated about at every point possible and mostly relegated to working, if at all, to the lowest paid menial jobs like constructing the Arab mirage in Dubai. Ironically, while Arab loving ‘Pakis’ are shunned it is the Indians, who unfortuantely share no such love for Arabs, are happily embraced and respected by the Arabs. More than 20 million Indians work in the Middle East and occupy most jobs up for grabs including the highest positions and jobs that pay the most. Visit an office in Qatar or UAE or Bahrain and it would look exactly like one in Mumbai, Bangalore or Delhi.

    Where is the so-called Umma, the Arab love and ‘brotherhood’? Pakistanis must realize that their love affair with Arabs is pretty much one-sided. Recommend

  • Kamal Haider
    Jun 9, 2010 - 6:08PM

    To Athar

    All sects beleive in coming of Hazrat Eisa A.S in the latters days. In hadith Prophet Muhammmad may peace of blessings of Allah be upon him has called the the returning Eisa a Nabi Ullah over three times. This is not just Ahmadi beleive it is all Muslim Ummah beleive.Recommend

  • Azeem
    Jun 9, 2010 - 8:11PM

    Are the Ahmedis Muslim?- No I dont believe they are (im entitled to my opinion and I dont need to defend it).

    Should they be allowed to practice their religion without being hindered in any way?- Yes they should. It is their right as Citizens of Pakistan.

    Do Ahmedis have rights equal to those of Muslims in Pakistan?- If they dont they should, They are Pakistanis and all Pakistanis should have the same rights be they, Muslim, Ahmedis or from any other religion.

    As far as Nawaz Sharif t seems that whatever he says someone just uses it against him. I admit he isnt the greatest speaker and has his share of gaffes but yes when compared to other the Media does seemk to eb particularly harsh on him. (No im not a PML-N) Supporter, I share the same lowly opinion of all politicians barring some who I believe are worse than others).

    A request to all. pelase do not club anyone with a beard under the same head of Mullah. there are good and bad people. please do not judge them together.Recommend

  • Saif Hassan Siddiqui
    Jun 10, 2010 - 12:47AM

    AHMAD……THANK YOU!!!!!
    I don’t even want to go into all the material scientific technological developments Muslims made over the years.
    1: I DON’T mean the Arab culture, that’s Hitchens speaking, and has no bearing on the truth. Try to find out who the majority of jurists, theologians, scientists, philosophers and army generals were ethnically, and you’ll find out for yourself.
    2: The Muslim world has gone down cuz it chose to follow “mullahs”. :D Nice!
    3: You obviously have no idea how to read history and gather what’s really there. Try to read up on the basic theological differences between Christianity and Islam, and then consider the fact that there is no Church in Islam in the first place, and no one can claim absolute loyalty to his verdicts any way. Try to find out what a fatwa is, and what sort of Islamic sciences one has to be proficient in before one issues a fatwa. Try to find out the intellectual road the West took to get where it is. Don’t contribute on this thread until you do. Please.
    4: Don’t talk about Hasan Nisar until you read Husain Nasar. The Clash of Civilization was a concept brought up by Samuel Huntington. Study Husain Nasar’s reply to the idea.
    5: Finally, like those whom I talked about in the first contribution, you are not at all aware of which “isms” have shaped your way of thinking.
    Be more proud of what Muslims have done, and understand that technological development will never be as important as having a fulfilling life. Even Weber said that.
    P.S. Google these names if you don’t know who they are.
    Wassalam. Recommend

  • Salman
    Jun 10, 2010 - 1:04AM

    @PERVAIZ: Mr. Modern Muslim, How would you know if the Christian or Hindu asking you to consider him/her a Muslim has not changed his relegion in reality? Can you see inside people’s heart?Recommend

  • Syed
    Jun 10, 2010 - 1:12AM

    Fact 1: Ahmadi’s believe in one God (Allah) and His messenger Muhammad (sw) as Khatam-un-Nabyeen.

    Fact 2: They only consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian as the Messiah and Mahdi as foretold by Prophet Muhammad (sw) himself.Recommend

  • Aftab Ahmed
    Jun 10, 2010 - 11:42AM

    In the name of politics and complete ignorance of the law….that is the policy of our leaders. People like Nawaz Sharaf are not more reliable they are trying to demage the image of Pakistani Muslims. We the Muslims of Pakistan Love our Nabi Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (peace be upon him) and do not need any advice and statements from so called leaders.Recommend

  • roomi
    Jun 10, 2010 - 11:50AM

    Im not a fan of Sharif brothers but if they said what they said I appreciate it. Its good to actually see a mainstream leader come out and express solidarity with tha Ahmadis who have been persecuted for too long in this country. Whatever may b the differences on a religious level….on a human Level what happened is totally unacceptable and despicable and Ahmedis are citizens of this country.Recommend

  • Hamza Ahmed
    Jun 10, 2010 - 12:40PM

    I compeletly agree with MR.Aasim a the begning and Mr.Parvez at the end…
    Muslim is the on who believe that there is only ONE ALLAH and Mohammed(P.B.U.H) is the last Prophet…and after Him its the End of Prophet Hood and here every one knows the beilieve of Ahmadis(qadianis)…secondly its not only Pakistan where, ahmaedis are called non-muslim there are other countries too which dont allow them to practise even.You can take example of Bangladesh and Indonesia.Recommend

  • Fareed Ahmed
    Jun 10, 2010 - 3:21PM

    Pre-partition all the leading Deobandi maulvis were anti Muslim league and were with the Congress. “Hindu Muslim bhai bhai” was a popular slogan with these maulvis. How things change!Recommend

  • Danish
    Jun 11, 2010 - 1:39PM

    Wafaqul Madaris al Arabia (WMA) should be banned and their clerics should be jailed for spreading hatred. Sharif bros should take one step ahead and announce operation against Talibans in Punjab. Empty words such as “Ahmadis are our brothers”, count for nothing.Recommend

  • Faryal Tahir
    Jun 11, 2010 - 3:13PM

    Somehow I can’t go to Page 2. Is something wrong at my side, or everyone facing it?Recommend

  • Yasir Qadeer
    Jun 11, 2010 - 3:26PM

    I think the Mullah’s have actually lost it big time again. Just because you call a non-Muslim your brother does not means that you have been kicked out of the Islamic circle. The way they kick people in and out of this system is comical.Recommend

  • jahanzaib.haque
    Jun 11, 2010 - 3:49PM

    We are working on the page 2 Comments issue. Regards (Web Editor)Recommend

  • Khan
    Jun 11, 2010 - 4:48PM

    Progressive political distortion of religion. Now I see where these Ahamdis come from. We Muslim really need to open up our eyes now and see how we are being cheated by certain extreme people among us with limited understanding of Islam and alot of non religious ‘motives’ behind. They have been fooling us all along and we become the part of so many sins following them.Recommend

  • Tilsim
    Jun 11, 2010 - 8:05PM

    The Mullahs have made Islam into a very strange and unethical religion. People say that it’s too late; Mullah Islam has taken over and their supporters are found in the highest places. Islam teaches us not to lose hope. This is an opportunity to engage with our faith and ethics and raise our voices to clear the widespread misunderstanding of Islam amongst Muslims. Well done to all who raised your voices here. May Allah reward and we all regain our humanity and ethics.Recommend

  • Jun 12, 2010 - 12:46PM

    Ignominy, brazen audacity, insolence and indecision seems to be our lot. Why? Thanx to the handshake and alliance between our so-called guardians of the faith and the political parties and the underpaid law enforcing agencies.
    The mullahs have yearned for power, the political parties have it and the country suffers. Education was a word in their MINIMAL lexicon and the catch word is USA, USA, USA to remain in power.
    Nawaz Sharif meant it in good faith. Respect him for that. We cant go around calling and condemning people all the time of our lives. Dont we have time to develop the country by collecting taxes and employing them to good use without deceit, fraud and contempt for a particular under developed area.Recommend

  • Mazen
    Jun 13, 2010 - 12:00AM

    The thing which leads me to disparity is the killing in the name of the religion.This is not the teachings of our QURAN as well as our HOLY PROPHET(pbuh).Infact the racism is the biggest hurdle towards prosperity and somehow for development also.But i would like to add one thing here as far as their(ahmedis)religion is concerned im no one who have the authority to call them non-muslim,but on the other hand this is also a bitter truth that they have to reconsider one thing and that is the matter of our beloved prophet(pbuh).We as a muslim believe that hazrat muhammed(pbuh) is a last one so no one want to compromise on this,so i would like to conclude on this note ahmedis have to reconsider their perception or somehow belief about this otherwise there is a big question mark on their religious beliefs.Recommend

  • Mohsin Siddiqi
    Jun 13, 2010 - 6:34AM

    @Shahid Bangalore: very well said.Recommend

  • Prof Fawad Khawaja
    Jun 13, 2010 - 1:07PM

    it has to get worst… before it gets any better. We will never learn before loosing millions of lives in a bloody civil war, just like any other civilization at peace today. We still have to go through our crap inevitably. So sit back… relax… and count your dead! Recommend

  • Ghulam-e-Ali
    Jun 15, 2010 - 4:01PM

    First, on the **mullah v. anti-mullah debate:** I think it is best not to engage in this debate IN THESE TERMS. It’s not that the spectrum of issues which this debate touches upon is insignificant or not worth discussion; the problem is that it the term ‘mullah’ or ‘moulivi’ is used in so many different, often contraditory, senses that very often both sides are talking about very different things and the whole exercise does not yield any greater understanding… This term is used by some as a lable which helps dismiss the views of others without having to engage in scriptrually-based dialogue with them. It is by others for themselves in hope of parochializing a message which God had intended to be universal. And there’s a whole range of other things that could be implied by it, some as unintellectual as the length of someone’s facial hair and his sartorial fashion. In other words, as an analytical concept ‘mulla’ or ‘maulvi’ is a vacuous concept and is best avoided by sincere discussants.

    Two, on the question of **whether Ahmedis are brothers of Muslims and whether Muslims should publicly share in their grief.** On this question, I must refer to two traditions of great wisdom narrated from the Holy Prophet (pbuh) – and judged authentic by the tradition of Sunni hadith scholars: *”Kullukum min adam, wa adamu min turab”* (You are all from Adam and Adam was from dust (mitti). The other is a famous Hadith which I heard in a lecture of the famous contemporary scholar Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi. This hadith can be looked up in Sahih Al-Bukhari. Two companions of the Prophet (pbuh) were asked about why they stood up when the funeral procession of a non-Muslim passed by them, in al-Qadisiyyah. They said, “A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet and he stood up. When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, “A laysat Nafsa (Is it not a living soul)?”

    The first hadith has been relied upon by scholars, amongst them the famous Al-azhari shaykh Muhammad Al-Ghazali and Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, in conjunction with the various verses of the Quran which refer to all people as “*Bani Adam*(the Tribe of Adam), as proof of the point that Islam establishes a fundamental brotherhood between all of human beings (bani adam), regardless of distinctions of faith. The analogy of a ‘tribe’ which Allah has chosen to describe human beings in the Quran should not taken lightly; it should be understood fully in the context of the first adressees of the Quran – the Arabs – who knew of no stronger form solidarity than that of the tribe. In the light of this, I do no find it incorrect to say that non-Muslims are “Brothers” of Muslims. However, in construing this last statment, the interpreter must bear in mind the proviso that brotherhood has various levels; and the brotherhood between belivers and non-believer, although an undeniable and divinely-sanctioned fact, is of an order different from, and lower than, the brotherhood amongst belivers.

    The second hadith which was referred to by Shaykh Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi while expounding the concept of human rights in Islam, should be examined closely. In fact, it should be imagined. Whey the Holy Prophet was sitting with his Companion and when a funeral procession of the Jews passed by, and the Prophet stood up, what prompted the blessed Companions to remark “But it was a Jew!” Perhaps the same intuitive sense of unease that many Muslims even today have in admitting their human feeling of grief at the death of a group of non-Muslims, who rejected Islam in the very face of the Prophet (pbuh). Yet, what did the Holy Prophet say? He posed to the the rhetorical question: “Wasn’t ‘it’ a person too?”, emphasising the commonality that all human beings have: that they are members of the family of Adam and Eve, and carry with them the human sould which is the breath of the Divine.

    With this context in mind, I will leave you to judge for yourself whether Mr. Sharif’s statement is anything but in line with the teachings of this religion. That said, I state all which I have stated with the humbling consciousness that this opinion of mine is not an authority over others, but is merely my sincere understanding of the matter. If others, particularly those whose understanding of religion exceeds mine by far, hold a different view, that view too is worthy of respect by all and obedience by those who find it convinicing. I also pray that if my understanding is flawed, may He guide me to a better understanding.Recommend

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