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Drama in Lahore: US diplomat faces double murder charge
Official claims to have gunned down two men in self defence.
Broken windshield of the US diplomat’s car after he fired at two people in Lahore. PHOTO: IJAZ MAHMOOD
LAHORE:
Two cases, including one for a double murder, have been registered against US diplomats involved in a dramatic shooting and hit-and-run incident, which claimed the lives of three men in Lahore on Thursday.
One diplomat has been charged for murder for killing two men on a motorbike allegedly in self defence, at Lahore’s Qartaba Chowk – while a companion of the diplomat, who is also an American citizen, crushed to death a bike rider in a hit-and-run incident, following the shooting.
The accused diplomat, Raymond Davis, opened fire at the two men – identified as Faizan Hayder, aged 22, and Faheem, 20 – at a traffic signal of Qartaba Chowk, after which he fled from the scene.
Two of his companions, who were in a Land Cruiser, tried to follow him but in an attempt to avoid a traffic jam entered the wrong side of the road and hit a motorcycle, killing one person.
However, two wardens managed to chase the diplomat and apprehended him at the Old Anarkali chowk.
Capital City Police Officer (CCPO) Muhammad Aslam Tarin confirmed that all three deceased had no previous criminal records, adding that none of them had robbed or fired at the diplomat.
Tareen further said that the American diplomat had shot at them, adding that two FIRs under Section 302 of PPC have been registered against the accused.
One FIR has been registered for shooting and killing two people, while another has registered against the unidentified accused involved in the hit-and-run.
Earlier reports suggested that the police declared those who were killed as armed dacoits. The CCPO had earlier said, “According to the diplomat two bike riders whipped out their pistol after which he fired at them in self defence and tried to flee from the scene.” He said that due to their suspicious movement, Davis thought they wanted to attack him.
Tarin said the accused was still in their custody and after consulting the embassy and prosecutors they would take action against him according to the law. He also said that the accused US diplomat was unable to show legal proof or license for carrying a weapon.
Superintendent of Police Umar Saeed Malik confirmed that both cars belonged to the US consulate. He said that the white car driven by Davis was headed towards a hotel when the incident occurred.
Ali Amjad, an eye witness, told The Express Tribune that the Land Cruiser, while following the fleeing car on Jail Road, collided with a biker identified as Ubaidur Rehman.
Davis’s car while on the run also injured a traffic warden who had tried to stop it. The car finally got stuck in a traffic jam at Anakali and was caught by the chasing warden along with an angry mob, Amjad said.
Raymond was then moved to Old Anarkali police station from where he was escorted to an unknown place by DSP Raza Safdar Kazmi in his official vehicle.
Amjad, who was present at the jail road at the time of the incident, said that the first shot was fired was from the car as, immediately after, the pillion rider fell from the bike. He said that more shots were fired from the car, after which it fled from the scene.
When contacted, US embassy spokesman Alberto Rodriguez told The Express Tribune that the embassy is working closely with the authorities and the consulate in Lahore on the issue. Although he confirmed that the US national is an employee of the consulate, he said he could not confirm his name or portfolio.
Hayder was a resident of Ravi Road and, according to his family, had left the house for the court to pursue a case against the killers of his brother who gunned him down a month ago. The family said that Hayder carried a pistol but only for self-defence. They further said that Hayder was not a dacoit, and was being used as a scapegoat by the police to save the skin of the American diplomat.
Published in The Express Tribune, January 28th, 2011.
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Mir Aimal Kansi also shot couple of CIA officials just outside its Langley HQ … I wonder if the US authorities and their moderate supports had ever questioned the motive … He was arrested and handed over to US authorities by their Pakistani Servants … as he committed a crime in US soil and US law was applicable on him …. same is the scenario here … and hope to see the justice is done.
And the American Intelligence official involved should thank God … that he was NOT in Sialkot :) .Recommend
Not far is the day when these ruthless Americans would fire left right and centre in all our major cities. We are a banana state to them and law of our land holds no value to these tyrants.
Our govt. is a total stouge to the white house and they can do nothing to bring this AMerican to justice…instead they protected the American by driving him back to the US counsulate. I am sure that DSP would be promoted for the service given to the American citizen. Its a shame today being called a Pakistani. That american killed 3 of our fellow citizens and we cant do anything. WOWWW!Recommend
I agree with ‘A Pakistani’ – the American who killed someone by recklessly driving on the wrong side seems to me to be a greater criminal. He killed an innocent man after all and should be punished for it.Recommend
The claim of self defence does not make sense in this case not because of the people of Pakistan but because of the facts as mentioned below:
The American official shot the back of the motocyclists through his car’s front windshield. 14 bullets in one body and 4 in the other.
None of the eye witnesses have described so far any robbery attempt by the motorcyclists. As we all know by now, it is a very busy crowded place and hundredes of people saw the drama unfold but nobody saw the motorcyclists trying to rob him as he claims.
After shooting the motorcyclists, he got off the care and started to take their pictures. If you were there trying to defend yourself from a robbery attempt in which you ended up killing two people, you will be quite shaken and would wither want to run away from the scene or call the police. You will not definitely start taking photographs of your “game”.
And then he radioed his peers, who then showed up in another car to rescue him breaking all traffic rules and killed a third person as they were coming on a very high speed on the wrong side of the road.
He then tried to run away and in that he hit and injured even more people.
He never surrendered to the police. You can see the ffotage (and there is plenty of ametuare footage of this incident), citizens and members of police did not let him run away.
The worst thing is that almost all Western media outlets already declared him innocent and the the people who were murdered as robbers. They even twisted the words of Pakistani police spokespersons. Instead of quoting them as saying (as they did say” that “The American told us that he killed in self defence and ….), they took the quotation marks out as well as any reference to the American official in reporting those words.
As far as your idea about the Western diplomats being armed when travelled in these countries, you should know that they are not supposed to be travelling everywhere + they are suppose to travel with their security.
Remember, this is not the first time that American officials are caught carrying and using their weapons against Pakistanis in Pakistan
I am sure nothing will happen this time again to the American official. Who cares about Pakistanis?Recommend
The claim of self defence does not make sense in this case because of the facts as mentioned below:
American shot the back of the motocyclists through his car’s front windshield. 14 bullets in one body and 4 in the other.
None of the eye witnesses have described so far any robbery attempt by the motorcyclists.
As we all know by now, it is a very busy crowded place and hundredes of people saw the drama unfold but nobody saw the motorcyclists trying to rob him as he claims.
After shooting, he got off the car and started to take their pics. If you were trying to defend yourself from a robbery attempt in which you ended up killing two people, you will be quite shaken and would wither want to run away from the scene or call the police.
You will not definitely start taking photographs of your “game”.
The worst thing is that almost all Western media outlets already declared him innocent and the the people who were murdered as robbers. They even twisted the words of Pakistani police spokespersons. Instead of quoting them as saying (as they did say” that “The American told us that he killed in self defence and ….), they took the quotation marks out as well as any reference to the American official in reporting those words.
Furthermore they have blackedout re the innocent killed by over-running at high speed on a one way raod by driving at the wrong side as well as the several civillians injured in traffic violations.
So much for the “freedom of expression” What a hypocrite lot
Recommend
Rather then get emotionally ‘patriotic’ about this episode, I would try to imagine what i would do if indeed I was being pursued by thugs with guns. If realised I could not get away due to a traffic jam or some such thing then if I was carrying a weapon I would have little choice but to confront them.
Reports indicate that these two dead men were armed, then in my books Pakistani, American or Martian the person who shot them, did so with justificationRecommend
The story is not as simple as it sounds. Some reports are also saying that he fired on a treffic warden and pointed his gun on the civilians and the policemen who arrested him.
There are some news reports that the American used hollow point bullets. Use of such bullets is prohibited under the Hague Convention of 1899. Unlike ordinary bullets, these bullets expand once inside the target and cause more tissue damage causing sure death.
In his book ” Way of Deception: The Making and Unmaking of a Mossad Officer”, the former Mossad officer Victor Ostrovsky tells about extensive use of such bullets by Mossad target killers.
These facts show that he has received extensive weapons training and was involved in somthing more than ordinary diplomatic stuff. The vehicles were using fake number plates, why?Recommend
The Central Intelligence Agency declined to comment on whether the detained American was an agency employee. Former agency officials said accounts of the incident suggest that the American was an agency officer. One former official with experience in Pakistan said that the CIA operates a base in Lahore and that ordinary diplomats are not armed.Recommend
The america should be awarded sitar-e-jurat for service to the civil society after all he killed scum bag Pakistanis!!!!!, oh oh and dont forget the noble peace award for getting ride of 3 terrorist!!!
We need more people like you sir there are still 17 crore Pakistani left.
P.S. am i liberal enough?Recommend
Remember Afia BIBI,,,,,,,,,,,now its our turn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lets see what consitution said,,,,,,,,,,,,,and then see what’s Government did ????Recommend
The Most Important of all is the Drone attack which they doing daily despite our anger, lame protest which infact pointed towards our goverment permisission According to UN 2,043 Innocents Killed by Drones … and if rest were Terrorists then also are our people … So my point is that Nobody should other than us has any right what so ever we do our people … We have Military we have police and all should be done by us not by Other Foreign Agents ….
Well in this particular case i dont see any self defence issue …. they (The Two Innocents) didnt fired at him not a single shot so why he thinks he is defending himself and in that process kill one more too….
Self Deefence has many angles …
Self Defence is that when somebody punch u first than in reply u punch him back ….Recommend
@Danish+S.:
Danish Saheb u r refering the issue of FAISAL SHAHZAD … dear also add that in your post he has American Nationality also ….So its very much a problem of USA not for Pakistan … and is the clear case of Failed Secuirty appartus in America after that 9/11 case ….Recommend
@Zone: can you talk sensible on a serious issue as this? or this issue is also a piece of new “spice” and “conflict” for you?Recommend
Nobody fires dozens of shots in “self defense”!Recommend
The fact is that the morcycle rider wa carrying a gun confirmed by his family. The American fleeing from the scene is also self defense. We all know the mob mentality of our crowds, the American did what all sane people should have done. Now the crushing death of the other fellow is inexcusable and should be dealt with in accordance with whatever law is in place.
But kudos to the Americans for being in Pakistan and carrying out the diplomatic and consular duties under the most extreme conditions. American should close all Posts in Pakistan except maintain a diplomatic office.Recommend
@Naeem Siddiqui, Australia:
Nadeem sahib, if someone has committed a crime one should not justify another crime on the basis of that crime, Why u r justifying the killings of three innocent Pkaistanis by an American Terrorist. What so-called democratic government of US and US judiciary has done with Afia Siddique? Pakistan should try this US man in accordance with law of the land.Recommend
I have seen a lot of people taking a dig at liberals. Liberals are not always Pro American neither it’s important that they follow western life style. Liberals are Muslims like you. Liberalism exists in the mind, not how a person dresses and live.
The motorcyclists he killed in “self-defence” were not criminals. I am a liberal person and i will say that this guy deserves maximum punishment. Not only him but also the driver of other car who killed a pedestrian.Recommend
@Aown Kazmi:
Bravo to American Justice,Peace and human rights. The American Motto says,”In God we Trust” but the killer certainly does not trust in God for he did what GOD prohibits! Killing. I would like to Ask the American Nation what it would term the actions of this American Criminal and then what about the manslaughter by the driver who over ran the motorcyclist?I do not propound a tit for tat response because that is not what Islam preaches. However where is American Decency? does any American Official have the decency to come on TV and Apologize ? Are the Americans super Humans?What do you think wil this not generate hatered for the Americans in this part of the world and also world over?
Ironically Muslims and particularly Pakistanis believe more in the Motto “In God we trust” And I trust if the American nation does show grace, DIVINE Justice shall Humble the American Pride.Please mark my words!
I am sure if these criminals had truthfully accepted their crime, a lot of Pakistanis would have forgiven him for this is the custom in Islam.Recommend
dear
its one way of source/agent termination
in the hidden policies of CIA this technique is used
so we must analyse this incident from this angle as wellRecommend
I am sure David will leave Pakistan unharmed and many Dubious Characters will be Exposed now. No doubt, It’s great loss But movement of CIA operatives will be restricted due to enhanced threat from extremist elements. Nationalist elements may join hands with fanatics due unprovoked firing by David. That wud be difficult time for Americans.Recommend
my friend was an eyewitness to this event, here is what he says he saw:
the american pulled up behind the biker boys and shot first from the car through the windscreen. the pillion rider got caught in the head and died right there. the other guy only got wounded at first tried to run but fell to this knees. thats when the american got out of his car, walked in front of the injured guy and shot him twice.
he then went back in the car, threw the gun outta the window under a daewoo bus got a digital camera from the car and took pictures of the two guys.
He saw police coming and waved some id at them shouting them to come over. typical pakistani policeman ran the opposite way.
crowd started to gather so the american got back in the car rammed some vehicles trying to get away. his friends pulled over in a prado i believe and he tried to get away with them.
my friend was in the right most lane, another car was in the middle lane and the shooting occured in the third lane.
he said the pistol looked and sounded expensive, he said it couldve been a glock. cia style
too much for self defence isn’t it !Recommend
@ Zia
“There are some news reports that the American used hollow point bullets.”
That’s an interesting observation.Recommend
Why do you address people as ‘sahib’? Are you so slavish?Recommend
@Zia: Learn some good English.Recommend
i am utterly amazed to read a few comments up here from da so called liberal class ov our society……praising dis diabolic deed….
chasing da american dream,we have lost our identity, individuality n patriotism……iv we cant stand by our own ppl we have no right to be called a pakistani nation……..uber shame to all da pro americans…..
God is da only Judge…..can only hope n wish to c dis fiend (raymond davis)go thru an impartial court trial!!!it wud be too good to be true!!!
how dare these americans put up dis show in OUR homeland!!!
its tyme v take a stance…..its tyme v make our voice heard!!!its tyme v condemn our rulers and their acts!!! wake up PAKISTAN!!
hum dekhain gay….lazim hai k hum bhi dekhain gay…..woh din k jiska wada hai…..hum daikhan gay…..Recommend
the US diplomats should be taught a lesson out of this. This is Lahore, not Afghanistan where these CIA agents can roam around freeRecommend
Dear Bros & Sis….
Its not Just americans but civilians of Lahore… I wish and hope it should happen in Nwfp… I am proud of my Province, city, town, village. Doesn’t matter how bad we are how many ppl we kill, but if outsider kills our ppl its not and never accepted.Recommend
@ Tippu, you write “I am confident the american will be found not guilty and i hope he returns home safe and sound” Looks like either you have sold out your sense of dignity or you have sold out your vision. The two guys might not be innocent but what about the biker who was crushed to death for no reason? Its not the americans that we need to worry about its extremists like you that need to be taken care of, be it religious extremists or liberal!!Recommend
I think ISI and Mullah have conspired against American innocentRecommend
This is due to the free hand given to America by Musharraf and also the present Government .More than this can happen. This American must be given punishment of death 3 times in the open so that no body will dare in future to repeat such action.
Every body knows that America has given punishment of 80 years to Dr Afia Saddiqui due to the reason that she tried to kill American in self defence.
Now one thing is sure that American can not sleep sound any where in Pakistan. They can buy few hundred of the Assembly members but they cannot buy millions of Pakistani who hate AmericaRecommend
just 3 important things:
1. Diplomats are not allowed to carry a weapon, and the bike riders didnt pull out their guns.
2. The hit and run incident by the other car was also wrong. It was promised that both the driver and the car will be handed over last night but not done so far.
3. The law in the US doesn’t allow manslaughter in self-defense without a sentence. I have a friend in California who served 6 years for involuntary manslaughter after he killed someone (despite the fact that the gora had shot at him first but missed). Guess what, his first name is Muhammad.Recommend
Pakistan is a HUNTING FIELD for the International Forces. Arabs got Permit or License for HUNTING PURPOSE.
No need to say that America is our Patron & BiggBoss; so he doesn’t need to get any such BONDAGE. He has full AUTHORITY to prey the Beautiful Birds or Powerful WarLords, after all he is paying for it. The entire Americans are fond of Adventure, Fun, Hunting & Shooting of Man but saving the Animal Kingdom. This is why America has a Silent Authority to use his Nuclear Weapons, MDW & Drone Missiles where ever & when ever he likes.
He has preyed millions & millions of HUMAN BEINGS in Japan, Cuba, Iraq and Afghanistan so far. More over, he assisted so many others with FUNDINGS & WEAPONISING in such activities.
The Gentleman who has killed these persons should not be accused of any charge as all the Black-Water-Personnels have Full Liberty of doing it. When our Elected Rulers have, SILENTLY, allowed them, then nobody should have any objection in this regard.Recommend
@ Mir Jaffar: I am a mathematician. I don’t want to learn ‘good English’Recommend
Hey now i really want to see all those “Liberals” and “Secularists” who were so much into the Salman Taseer’s murder story and giving explanations about how islam “Doesnt” give Death penalty for Blasphemy! Where are they? why arent they blogging now like they were until 2 weeks back? Isnt this an act deserving the same condemnation from every class of Pakistanis be it Liberals or “Extremists” ?Recommend
We must stop comparing Pakistan and US. Pakistan is surviving because US is giving money , food, arms..Let me tell you the US citizens are very responsible people and would not kill sitting ducks. Let proper investigation be done. What kind of country is this? Why it has committed itself to America? The problem is simple, Pakistan should review it’s policies, and UNDERSTAND it’s LIMITATIONS. Enough of comparing itself with India and dreaming about Kashnir..a generation is gone 63 years of hatred!!!..so many innocents have died! WHAT HAS ANY ONE GAINED? Young soldiers dying every day, inncocent civilians losing lives…POVERTY, ILLITERACY….no electricity, , roads in shambles…no civil infra structure!!! PLEASE THINK WHAT ARE WE HEADING TO?…Why do we have to allow terrorists to breed? So long as we don’t change our policies, there is NO light at the end on the tunnel..Recommend
I like to believe nobody’s innocent especially in today’s world. Why would a professional diplomat go around carrying a gun?? Yes, he has diplomatic immunity but its more courtesy then actual permission to go around shooting people. And why would an “innocent” citizen go around carrying a gun?? I’m a civilian I have relatives who are civilians and in the army. I do not personally know anyone who carries a gun with him at all time. If both parties were innocent why were they just casually lugging around arms???
I’m sure that diplomat got himself it to some kind of trouble and must have been threatened or something and those young men must have been sent to “take care” of the situation. The diplomat got spooked when he saw them and opened fired.Recommend
**america has given medical help to poors, dvt pumps ,ventilators for hospitals,military help
n helping fencing af – pak border
still you blame america
iRecommend
@Sana Rasool:
Your comments really lack weight. Carrying a gun is not illegal in many countries. Do you live in Pakistan?? Have you ever traveled there? I worked in the Frontier for many years…guns are part of that culture without question!
You ask how he got suspicious? Why not ask the question in the opposite manner to expand your mind a bit?? What foreigner in their right mind would EVER draw a gun publicly in a foreign country UNLESS they felt at risk?! My gosh…and did you seriously question why he would flee the scene?? I really think you’ve never lived in your own country! ANYBODY in their right mind would flee due to mob justice so prevalent there that reacts before thinking, appropriates justice without proof of guilt OR innocence. The “street” is an emotional tinderbox ready to light there and any honest person knows this. How many times have we had to shut down our offices due to this ever-present reality!
BTW, I’m an American who lived and worked in Pakistan for almost 10 years – learned language, culture, society very well and still travel back often. My perspective is relevant.Recommend
American shooter had senselessly gunned down two innocent persons. Americans have become physio cases because they know very well that they are involved in Pakistan aimlessly. They can never ever prove own character` justified in our region. Americans known very well own wrong line of action and conclusively, they often over react on the situation which in fact is not based on realty. Many think-tanks in America have identified the reasons of such mental deficiency due to aimless / fruitless involvement in this region.
Weapon without license, car’s registration number, attempt to escape with full-intention accepting himself as criminal, his illegitimate activities in Lahore instead of Islamabad (a justified territory for performing duties) are the red question marks on part of American Diplomat.
He opened fire from the front side of the car. I assert robbers on such a crowded place can never try to rob by killing a person. No one, on the road saw these boys taking a robbery initiative. The boy, whose brother killed one month ago, can open fire on killer(s) of his own brother. Let us think for an instant how much the price of the valuables which the American killer had carried while traveling in Lahore. I guarantee the value of American’s valuables can’t counted by anyone more than three man’s lives. Courts and investigation teams must play their fair role.Recommend
@Saira: You have come up with a very balanced approach on this episode, specially last para. It has now taken another dimension where both religious and like minded want to get it cashed for their own designs. Media is also playing rough with this tedious situation with lot of twists. Elements in Punjab are more eager for some extra mileage and their law minister is openly asking for Aafia’s release and it has also been reported that the sister of Aafia personally went to the house of deceased, for what, can easily be translated. I prefer that things must be seen purely from legal point of view with no hidden programs.Recommend
Bravo to him who did what was right for him to do.Now a days nobody is safe in this country.Those were the robbers and they deserved that.What if they had caught him they would have killed him just those who got killed in Sialkot.Those boys were not American but they killed their own men.So, he shot them to save himself and he did right.Recommend
He is under arrest and being tried in court. The problem is we are signatory to Vienna convention and if he is proved to be a diplomat he goes free. I need not mention here that he is not a diplomat, the ID he was carrying shows him to be Mr. Davis who does not have diplomatic status in Foreign office record. US embassy is now claiming that he is a diplomat and not revealing his identity. It is beyond doubt that they are lying. It is the name the man drives around with and US embassy concealment of facts is a problem, his origins and his circumstances are a problem. He was carrying sophisticated weapons, apparently without lawful authority is a problem, his failed attempted rescue is a problem, his rescue SUV running over and killing some one is a problem. US consulate’s not producing the SUV occupants and driver for questioning is a problem.
Now there are following diplomatic scenarios.
Although diplomats have immunity against any crime, their native country can and should wave off the immunity on ethical grounds in this type of case. They can plead self defence and let the justice take its course. It is in best interest of US to let go of the EGO and let the case follow its course. This is in the best interest of every one. This may lift US’s moral stature in people’s mind. But they are egoistic and are trying other way. They know it was not self defence.
Our government should hand him over to Americans per diplomatic norms BUT expel US diplomats and call back their diplomats from US. This is what a sovereign country should do. Are we a sovereign country? Let us be.
I hope we follow Tunisia and Egypt in a domino effect and let this be a trigger if our Government fails us again.Recommend
This case is a simple test of our so called independent judiciary, whether they react like our corrupt politicians or whether they uphold justice … If Americans, can punish Afia 86 years of imprisonment on an incident in which no american got hurt, infact it was Aafia who got bullet wound… then how come Pakistan will free these Americans,,who have killed innocent citizens of Pakistan… Pakistani Police is bringing… False cases against the deceased.. just to save their masters.Recommend
guys, somehow american govt will b successful to releasedda damned diplomat but while da ball is in our court we can atleast ask aafia in his return, we just need some sincere people to think and make da most of da situationRecommend
Only thing that can save Davis is presidential pardon from President of Pakistan
Raymond Davis could only be saved from the long arm of the law if the president pardons him after the due process is completed, experts of international law say.Recommend
its very shamfull for us that our poloice immedialtely after the incident stated in favour of american without investigation, punjab police played the role of US police.our sister affia is convicted just on the accusition of firing on americans, and now americans are demanding for safe deparature of killer.if govt does that nation will go up because we have alredy inflicted many wounds from americans. do justice if there is no justice,the name of nations become the part of words but notRecommend
These americans are real terrorists….they have made the whole world a hell….how have given authority to americans to kill anyone on any ground?????
By the way, i dont know why Pakistani media doen’st give a serious coverage to this issue…no politicans is talking about……especially Government of Punjab…shreef brothers…why they are not clarifying their opinion and why they are not condemning this act of killing openly????
Lets see during the custody of americans in Pakistan, there will b any drone attack or not……………….Recommend
@pakpinoy: your opinion is relevant but what you were doing here for 10 years is also relevant. Please share that with us.
About gun culture, frontier and Lahore are very different. Diplomats are not allowed to carry guns or driver cars with local number plates. Why do you think he photographed the two people he shot??Recommend
what an idiotic commentRecommend
@Sulaiman Malik:
I’m tempted not to even address your reference to what I was doing in your country — I mean, could you imagine if I asked the same of you if you were in the US?…and sort of implied that you were up to no good or there with mixed motives?..but it’s not my nature to assume the worst about people, so I don’t assume this about you or any other. Yet I know the mentality of many, if not most, is to create a “conspiracy” out of everything and view everyone’s motives with suspicion — which I might add is one sad way to view the world. But having lived and interacted with thousands of people during my years there, I fully understand why most have this very pessimistic view of the world around them.
So to answer your inquiry as to my work there, I invested in building a successful business in your country — 100% private with no connection to any government whatsoever. I’ve employed hundreds of your countrymen over the years and still have offices and projects in several cities there with no plans to scale down anytime soon, as long as it’s up to me. I’ve been advised to shift most of my project work to other countries for years due to the extremely volatile situation, but I have a deep place in my heart for your people and especially the Pathans, among whom I have many friends who would readily defend me with their lives. I hope my credentials are worthy of respect.
Back to the relevant topic, there are so many variant stories circulating now that the only way you can claim to know what really went down is to have preconceived ideas and then find articles and reports to support those notions. The unfortunate state of the Pakistani press is a high tendency to print unfounded, single source or even “rumor-like” information without following investigative journalistic integrity to actually piece together the entire and accurate story. I’ve never known if this is mostly professional incompetence or laziness or simply the lack of intellectual honesty (or freedom perhaps) to pursue the story from an unbiased, impartial “truth at all costs” perspective.
My advice is to let the story unfold and certainly if the local press doesn’t do their homework, then at least some competent investigative reporter in the foreign press will. I have no problem crying for justice, but I would advise all to choose one’s battles carefully.
How many times must a nation and its people face self-induced humiliation before they will learn to think before reacting, understand before judging and condemning, choose humility before honor, search for the truth before finding oneself defending what’s false and despicable??Recommend
@Abidi:
Would that you or your brother/son were the victim of your beloved DavidRecommend
when are u people going to realise that you are living in a corrupt country and your own leaders are selling your souls to the farangis – and get money for doing it!!Recommend
@Mir Jaffar:
Your call for better English depicts your slavish portrait.
Lets not bother about foreign languages too much; the real thing is that we should speak our national & mother tongue properly, which unfortunately most of us esp youngsters lack.Recommend
Foreign media reporting about the dead as criminals should be sued by our SC for billions of US$. They’re interfering and giving extra judicial remarks, just to please uncle tom.
they should rather appreciate the patience of our mob, for not giving the accussed a thorough beating, which I’m sure he won’t have sustained.Recommend
@Waqqas Iftikhar:
You do that and you will be arrested and punished but Davis is an American and Americans are are the masters of our political leadershipRecommend
@Sameer:
Are you American?Recommend
@usman:
Please think before utter or write comments.Recommend
@NIDA:
The punishment of American Criminal can be ended by the presidential pardon then who after this can end up the punishment of president her in Pakistan.Recommend
the american kill us by firing through drones, and its there wright
they regularly kill people in road traffic accidents in america and now in our homeland and now they openly shoot people.
but still they are the good guys. we are muslims we all are criminal/terrorist, that is just because we r away from our ISLAM and the time untill we do not start trusting on almighty ALLAH we will remain same and everyone will come to geovern to us
my reqest to the leader PLEASE TRUST ON ALLAH INSTEAD OF TRUSTING AMERICARecommend
Pakistan is the most unsafe place in the world.
He would have scared more, somebody might kidnap or kill him.
Because many times it happens in pakistan kidnapping foreigners by the terrorists.
Its all happened because of fear.
Terrorists created fear about Islam and Muslims and bringing bad name.
They should show pateince, and rightful way they need to convey their feelings.
This is one of the incident of their indirect effect.Recommend
@pakpinoy: I have been in the US and a friend was questioned by FBI right after 9/11 just because he was studying chemical engineering. You have mentioned how many jobs your business here created but not exactly what the business is. I have deep respect for the credentials of any Pathan who would defend a friend with his life. :)
Regarding investigative journalism, Dawn has produced the scans of Raymond’s non-diplomatic passport and the business visa he had, so there is no question of immunity. You have also failed to answer the question regarding why Raymond was filming the dead. Also, the other car and driver need to be handed over to authorities because there was no case for self-defense and it was clearly manslaughter.Recommend
@Sulaiman Malik: Probabaly to upload the photos on facebook! Bullocks! Very daring of you to question an american though ;)Recommend
Men in self defence won’t run after the incidentRecommend
this is preposterous. US has given absolute no justification on Dr. Afia case. they never apologized for bombing half of our north. we have no say over there matters interfering into ours IN pakistan; i have seen american embassy’s cars cross mid punjab; the likes of gujrat and gujranwala. if they are not threatened there; what on earth could have been the threat to that man in lahore. if there was a potential threat; he would be fired at; not lingered around him to suspect them. he was traveling a very busy road. if he was the target; there wouldn’t have been much problem. if he was too scared to roam around and was under a fit that every one was trying to kill him than he should have stayed put that is IF he killed them unintentionally?? i believe that is the questionRecommend
If you all are bothered about a US national killing two pakistani’s in self defense, you should also be bothered about the innocent people being killed by the so called Martyrs. In a country where there are many anti-americans, anyone on the spot would not wait and judge if the motorists have come to rob or kill or just an accident.. Why would the American kill those motorists? Since it was not a planned attack, it should definitely be on the basis of self defense which he would have exercised out of fear when two people confront him on a busy road. .. And many in the country are trying to politicize this event without understanding the underlying reason.. Well, now the biggest head ache is for the leaders of the country to justify between its own people and the external world!!Recommend
i am not from Pakistan but definitely, i am very sorry about this incident. I was suprised when i read all these discussions. This person is so brave to kill two Pakistanis in their land. whatever the other two people who were killed there is no room for discussion and needed to be punish by Pakistani rules, otherwise, it will disturb all the peoples conscious a lot.Recommend
@hus:
hey hus; i recommended a thing a for you that is if you’re a pakistani. first of all, this conception or any other stating that people of pakistan are extreme in their actions is soo false that it literally blows my head off. do u call these people extreme in negative emotions; these people who are servants to tyrants and countless political torments. the extremeness “buddy” that you see in media is all political propagandas to support their cause. you want to comment about the pakistans bud; you step down from your luxurious cruise and talk positively to the people in small streets and the masses of rural low class or middle class. you judge them like a honest guy and you would find that they would even welcome an american if he/she shows the same attitude. you have to say what’s right. you may be dumbfounded by their policies which i know i am; my best friend was an american; one of my favourite personalities is american but you gotta say right to whats rightRecommend
If, Raymond is released, its no matter of trouble, but just, only cost, give boost to jihadis, killing of hundreds usa soliders, uncountable financial loss to usa, thousands new recruiters readily available to Taliban and Jihadist. Pakistani army and govt, shall lost control on more areas, USA interest shall destroyed………. Nothing moreRecommend
Our peoples use to do a lost of things but either it normally happen to loose their confidence whiles they were facing irregularities which is frictionally beyond their control. Raymond had killed almost three Muslim Pakistan brothers on their mother land with in the huge crowded area and no one could have been blow-up with the courage to kill Raymond on the spot, then no question would be getting later the whole nation in trouble.
You might be getting unpredictable news in future, Raymond will out from the scene, and media quite for ever, politicians sold out their slogan, And two years later no ppp in the government. And no resolution toward better for the nation. Just bookish as what have showed slogan in the entire area of Pakistan.Recommend
If, rented killer, Raymond is Diplomate, then why he was carrying UNO banned weapons and killed the two were innocent and just was going to warn the rented killer Raymond, why rented killer Raymond was siding the both killed persons?
It, is also noted that this man hold fake documents for belonging to Lahore, Islamabad and Peshwar Consulates of United States of America, weapons banned by united nations to use against human and animal and the used weapon left zero chance of life for victims.
More ever, no immunity documents were show, yet by USA, to clear that rented killer was a diplomate. Diplomate list, provided by USA on 25 January, hold no Names of Rented Killer Raymond.
Many more questions but who shall answer?
We, need to know that Raymond is a rented killer, hired by USA to kill innocents in Pakistan.Recommend
@Aown Kazmi:
Thank you for your comment. We need people to continue to communicate what actually goes on in their part of the world. Your perspective as a resident of the locale in this story is invaluable. This is a huge story, especially since the men killed in the shooting were operatives themselves. It has the potential to expose the true machinations of this war, which has been built upon deceit from moment one and from ground zero.Recommend